The new grading system.
TwoSides2aCoin
Posts: 44,294 ✭✭✭✭✭
A
B
C
Simple enough. Submit now !
Anything less than A or B isn’t worth collecting.
Does this seem radical ? Looks like where we are, to me. Post an A coin. Numbers don’t matter. But, it has to be in a PCGS holder. After all, here we are.
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Comments
I have some coins that would grade an F.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
It doesn't seem radical...this seems more like a troll post. Post this 5pm Friday with a default avatar and the fireworks would fly.
Surprising coming from such a longstanding forum member.
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JA and CACG are the grading gods. They should just bite the bullet and drop the A B C nonsense and just go to a decimal point grading scale. Instead of an "MS65 A coin", just call it an MS65.8 or MS65.9. NGC and PCGS would follow suit to stay competitive and they would be flooded with coins previously graded using the old "whole number grading system" in the hopes of getting a new grade with a high number to the right of the decimal point.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It's time for a 100 point scale.
Your company can be called ABCCGS.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
no show here on the bad ones, ill get arrested again
100 point scale makes a lot of sense....
but then someone will have a 91.5 points coin ??? and claim to see the / know the difference.
That is the original grading scheme when it was basically VG, XF, and MS.
Collectors are the ones responsible for the current 40-grade fiasco.
More greed equals more grades.
I still like my daughter's grading scale from back when she was 5...
Pretty
Okay
Yuck
To je na hovno.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Does any of this really matter, if you know how to grade then it shouldn't matter, crackout artists, dealers & flippers would disagree of course
I don’t believe you when you say “Looks like where we are to me”. Because, you no doubt know plenty of collectors and dealers who aren’t of the belief that “Anything less than A or B isn’t worth collecting.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I like it.
Joe stole his grading system from her it seems.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
I agree but move the decimal one spot to a 10 point scale. That way your 91 = 9.1. And it would better align with pretty much everything else that’s certified these days.
For the first decade label the grades on the ten point scale with the corresponding Sheldon grade in parentheses. ex. MS 9.9. (MS69).
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
That is NGCX
Exactly. And it’s time to move it industry wide. I’m under the belief that using NGCX is still not available to the masses yet for submissions.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
Just do away with the numbers, examples / XF, CH XF. BU, CH BU, Gem BU.
I'm fine with that.
Okay Mark I do know more collectors and dealers who collect and deal lower grade, ungraded, and lesser valued coins than the more astute and educated that we have here do.
Maybe I meant to say “with all the talk of A & B coins, serious collectors gravitate upward and newcomers maybe wonder if collecting is worth it , when C coins or coins with a fair grade but unloved ( unstickered) fall out of favor (C or worse) based on that. Thus hurting either the hobby or the hobbyist.
And there is also a contingency of people who assume PCGS and NGC coins without a sticker already likely failed at getting the coveted “sticker” of approval. And there I would contend with such thinking.
Do you think this is beneficial for the hobby , going forward ? Is the herd thinning out ?
Where do you believe we are, and how do you see or perceive/ assess/grade/value coins outside of the holder ?
I like Gil’s suggestion I stole a kid’s grading system. . Is it really as easy as A B C ?
They're not even grading 5FS Jeffs..........yet, anyway! Only 6FS coins! Try wrapping your heads around that, will ya!
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
"5FS" isn't truly FS, though... I can easily wrap my head around it.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
Why are people who chose to buy "higher grade", "slabbed" and " higher value" coins "astute" or "educated"? You can be an ignorant high school drop out and buy expensive slabs. It's a choice.
In the stamp world, there are people who choose to only collect used stamps because only used stamps did postal duty. Why couldn't a highly educated collector choose to only use coins that were actually used for commerce?
And why couldn't the most educated, astute collector on the planet chose to collect only raw? They might trust their astute eyes more than PCGS. And many ancient collectors, for example, want to actually hold the coins.
Post an A coin. Numbers don’t matter. But, it has to be in a PCGS holder: VF25 - VF30 - VF 35 all CACs
Okay Ramblin'man. Are you saying JA is a DA ?
Not at all a logical reading of what I wrote. Quite the contrary, I'm saying there is no correlation between your intelligence and your collecting choices.
I'm saying that buying inexpensive raw material does not mean you are either uneducated or stupid. It's a choice not a mental defect.
And I'm saying those who need A and B coins might just be a little more educated than those who don't dig deeper in to their pockets.
Maybe you think they're ignorant or not as educated. Your mind is free to be trapped.
Thanks jedm.
Again, the converse is a logical fallacy.
The smartest collector in the country might collect 100% raw circulated coins and the dumbest person on the country might only buy PCGS CAC. You are arrogantly connecting education and intelligence to a collecting CHOICE.
You say there is no correlation between intelligence and (collecting) choice . I think there is.
I know you do. But that is simply arrogance. [Unless you are a raw, low ball collector admiring your superiors. ]
The most amazing collection I've seen in recent years was 100% raw collection of British copper covering 400 years. Belonged to a doctor. Had to be worth several million.
Andy Harkness collected the greatest collection of agricultural medals ever. He literally wrote the book on them. They are referenced by Harkness numbers. The collection is 100% raw and probably 75% cleaned and polished.
So you think the British doctor collector and the guy who wrote the book on agricultural medals were not intelligent and I am arrogant. You're free to think how you do.
It just shows how much they know about Jefferson nickels. There's a date range I believe that starts at 1990 where they're all commonly 6 step coins so it's a waste of time and ink to add 6FS to the label. Keep it simple with an FS designation and let collectors decide how many steps they want.....if they have a lifetime to spend finding them all. lol Locat[ng 6 step examples for every date in the series will never happen! lol It's just a matter of time before they figure out why the coin submissions aren't coming in for Jefferson nickels. Having coins graded by such inexperienced people IMO is a waste of money and a bunch of tomfoolery to take people's money!!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
You’re making assumptions about what they don’t know. And in the process, you’re underestimating and insulting them, too.
The major grading companies also have “RD” color designations available for many copper coins that will never be seen in “RD” state of preservation. It doesn’t mean they’re unaware of that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It hurt me a bit, (I think that I may be one of the less intelligent, but if I were intelligent It would have hurt too).
Interesting, so maybe to redirect this thread away from some individual arguments, one of the "negatives" about the "CAC effect" is the A/B/C, or more so, A/B coins get CAC, C coins dont. I really believe, while frankly poorly explained in the beginning, this has become a hot button topic. For example a member of our group has made many posts about this exact thing, and been given much ridicule (some deserved, but sometimes not).
I personally believe that knowledge of a series is the true way to find and enjoy collecting. Remember again it's one persons opinion. We have all seen gradeflation/upping grades. There is a very obvious reason for that, which is a commercial reason, not a collecting reason. My thought is, while the grade is important for many coins (not as much in my area of expertise) at the end of the day, I think everyone here likes nice attractive coins (A/B/C or MS63/64/65).
The hobby will always have a strong opinion on keeping market strong, my opinion is that it is the collector who at the end of the day needs to feel that they are pursuing the best they can for their budget. A/B/C or any individual grade is subjective. Enjoyment of the hobby is not. These factors are a reality in the hobby, but sometimes it might be a good idea to remember why we started in this wonderful area of collecting to begin with, and remember what is actually important, and that is the friendships, the enjoyment, and the pursuit of completing a set. That is what is most enjoyable. I have seen "A" coins that have been through the quote unquote ringer i.e. not original, and I have seen so called C coins that are perfectly fine and attractive.
Can anyone honestly tell me that they enjoy the nitpicking or ripping apart of the commercial aspect? For example, would anyone enjoy talking about a CAC approved coin but arguing if it an A or a B coin. I truly believe that wording of it was not helpful in general for the hobby, and as such, I personally am happy that they stopped accepting coins in my area of expertise, colonial and Americana, which I will be the first to admit is a whole different area of thought and collecting, however it is right at the top of the food chain with knowledge and approach. Again, just one persons opinion and my two cents!
NO. I think they were both very intelligent. Yet they collected the OPPOSITE of what you claimed smart people did.
This means someone who collects a raw VG to VF set of Walkers is either uneducated, unintelligent, or both.
What coins do you collect jmlanzaf? Just to file the info away.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
Lol. Mostly raw, foreign coins and circ medieval. Since I have a PhD, I'm not uneducated, just a moron.
I just hate elitism among collectors. It helped kill philatelics.
I am certainly not elite, in anyone's eyes, not did I mean to sound like it.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
I wasn't accusing YOU. But the implication of TwoSides characterization is that most of us are uneducated or unintelligent. I don't know where he would put CRH. You aren't buying high grade slabs when you're hunting
Some segment of the market wants this; CAC and CACG have an almost cultlike following.
To each his/her/their own. I am happy to buy a CAC/CACG coin, but I'm not going to pay a huge premium for it; if others are, so be it.
Grading should be an evolutionary process to reflect what is learned over time. More grades do not reflect greed. More grades reflect that not all coins within a series or even within a established and recognized grade are just simply not created equal. Coins simply have not survived in the same environment- some have been cleaned, dipped or enhanced which is more often than not where the greed becomes a negative factor. Grading simply cannot be reduced to something as simplistic as an A or B coin. Suggesting so-called c coins are not worth collecting really fails to consider the rarity of a very small perhaps close to unique surviving population.
I suspect the initial post was made in an effort to create some humor… but I think we are past that in terms of where we have been and how the future of grading can be shaped.
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That’s okay… I would not be caught dead dressed in that garb
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Exactly! Lol
But even MS seated dime collectors shouldn't be looking at Xf dime collectors that way.
Jmlanzaff, it doesn't take a PhD to answer "Yes", or "No".
It was a simple question. You trying to get more posts than RickO ?
I believe that you are probably the closest to ricko on these boards.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.