@DRUNNER said:
A different and hopefully direct answer to the OP . . .
Yes. I am considering that the West Coast is a bit more than just CA.
I do a lot (for me--a small minnow) of business in OR. Florence, McMinnville, Salem, etc. Mainly due to my relationship with an older dealer (and now a newer dealer) from the Pacific Northwest. Here I am in Utah, a curious coin desert of sorts. We have a couple of shows per year with a population along the Wasatch Front of about a million+ . . . but OR has a near-weekly show at some podunk rodeo grounds year-round! Not bad shows either! I speak therefor from experience.
I can hang out in Salt Lake and regale tire-kickers twice a year . . . or I could travel to any backwater pine-encrusted 1960's town hall in OR, almost any week, and sell my inventory!
Oh . . .and I am aware of at least one major player/wholesaler from the east coast that travels across the country just to hit these local-yokel OR shows. 'They' seem to do quite well . . . . .
There are plenty of shows, collectors, and active sites even north of CA . . . along the West Coast.
Plenty of posters here may echo my thoughts (@Moparmonster) . . . or maybe they will not, hoping to keep the secret to themselves.
Drunner
Wow! Some great insights here, Drunner. I just hadn’t ever envisioned Oregon as such a banging coin state. Thank you for your knowledge.
Agreed, nice post Drunner.
There are at least a couple of very advanced collectors on these boards who reside in Oregon.
There has always been is a lot of money in coastal California, so there have always been places to help them spend it. Before Heritage moved into its Beverly Hills office, it was Superior Stamp and Coin. Superior, Abe Kosoff, and a few others were big fish out here in the business for many years. The best place to get coins imo was the George Bennett Auctions in Van Nuys, CA.
Flash forward to now, and all of the players have offices in Southern California. They wouldn't have offices here if many important customers weren't nearby.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@DRUNNER said:
A different and hopefully direct answer to the OP . . .
Yes. I am considering that the West Coast is a bit more than just CA.
I do a lot (for me--a small minnow) of business in OR. Florence, McMinnville, Salem, etc. Mainly due to my relationship with an older dealer (and now a newer dealer) from the Pacific Northwest. Here I am in Utah, a curious coin desert of sorts. We have a couple of shows per year with a population along the Wasatch Front of about a million+ . . . but OR has a near-weekly show at some podunk rodeo grounds year-round! Not bad shows either! I speak therefor from experience.
I can hang out in Salt Lake and regale tire-kickers twice a year . . . or I could travel to any backwater pine-encrusted 1960's town hall in OR, almost any week, and sell my inventory!
Oh . . .and I am aware of at least one major player/wholesaler from the east coast that travels across the country just to hit these local-yokel OR shows. 'They' seem to do quite well . . . . .
There are plenty of shows, collectors, and active sites even north of CA . . . along the West Coast.
Plenty of posters here may echo my thoughts (@Moparmonster) . . . or maybe they will not, hoping to keep the secret to themselves.
I wouldn't dispute this. The entire west coast is coin collecting country. But I believe the conventional wisdom is that the southern part is more active than the northern.
My experience here is limited as it is only WA and OR.
@Coinhack . . . sent you a short PM. But yes . . . .I will be setting up there. Adjoining Bob White . . .from Portland OR.
Stop by . . . I just loaded an ice water in the cooler for you . . . and I'll have chocolate on ice as well. On the Sandy, UT 6-foot tables, there isn't room to put it out front !!!
By nature of it's size (1/10th or more of the U.S. population) and high-income earners (Entertainment, Finance, Law, Real Estate, Silicon Valley, etc.), California always has been a good place for the coin business/hobby.
However, with hostile regulatory and taxation policies -- notably an income tax on high-income earners that approaches 15% (in addition to Federal and property taxes) -- unless you are a tax-insensitive ultra-HNW earner, for many people in the sweet spot of regular high-income ($150K - $500K) you are facing major headwinds. With this hobby/business skewing older, with many people drawing down their accumulated assets (pensions, 401Ks, IRAs, etc.), to lose an additional chunk of their income is a choice many are no longer willing to tolerate. Even Shohei Ohtani was smart enough to realize that !
I doubt that you'd see specific exemptions for gold or precious metals since so many of the politicians are hostile to business, income, and wealth. The state is hemmoraging businesses, jobs, and upper-middle income earners.
Given Florida's tax-friendly policies, I think that's major tailwinds for FUN to continue to grow and dominate the calendar and coin show circuit. And I would not be surprised to see Texas get into the act with a major annual show with the attractions, population size, and wealth they have to offer.
For Cali natives it can be easier for them than somebody relocate there just to go into a hobby related business like RCI.
Coins don’t pay interest or dividends and one can drown from the biz Opex and not even be living there. If you can buy below bid by at least 20 pct and sell at cost plus 30 pct or more you might have a chance to make it on a tight Opex budget. One wholesaler from there I buy from he has a lot of stuff walking in his shop way below bid. Otherwise it would have folded a long time ago he says.
I doubt that you'd see specific exemptions for gold or precious metals since so many of the politicians are hostile to business, income, and wealth. The state is hemmoraging businesses, jobs, and upper-middle income earners.
There are specific exemptions though. For years, any bullion or numsimatic purchase >$1500 was tax free. The number is now $2000 and slated to move to $2500 at some point (I don't remember when).
It may need to be separated between casual and serious.
There would be IMO a greater concentration of casual collectors from the dreary cold weather States as an indoor activity.
Serious collectors would probably concentrate according to @jmanzlaf demos. The densely populated Metropolitan areas for sure.
@Jacques_Loungecoque said:
I’m curious why such large numismatic organizations like our host, Stack’s Bowers, and MANY prominent and elite dealers are based in California?
I guess I have not given this much thought, but in my mind its just a simple combination of an already established business and simply the geographic preference of the principals.
Virginia Beach seems to be the fastest growing areas with DLRC, CAC and Whitman. I have no idea if this has anything to do with taxes. But, as a former Virginia resident, I can confirm that this is NOT the most wealthy area in VA (NOVA wins the $$$ race by a country mile).
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
@Coinscratch said:
PCGS could be in the Antarctica and I would still send my coins to them. However, they should relocate to Texas and save me some shipping costs and them some grief.
At least a branch office right?
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
@GoldFinger1969 said:
You're more likely to have a coin club or an informal gathering of collectors in rural areas than in the Beverly Hills or Palo Alto sections of CA.
This must be a guess because it's wrong.
I've attended many meetings of the Peninsula Coin Club in Palo Alto.
There is quite a bit of money in California. Where there is money, people buy collectibles. Though as others said, the likes of Stacks, Heritage, etc., are here because well to do people like to spend. And they don't buy generic Wheat Backed Lincolns.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@Coinscratch said:
PCGS could be in the Antarctica and I would still send my coins to them. However, they should relocate to Texas and save me some shipping costs and them some grief.
At least a branch office right?
Hell, yeah, I would even work for them part-time grading coins! Be pretty easy 66, 66, 66, ooh 67, 66, 66…
Comments
Agreed, nice post Drunner.
There are at least a couple of very advanced collectors on these boards who reside in Oregon.
There has always been is a lot of money in coastal California, so there have always been places to help them spend it. Before Heritage moved into its Beverly Hills office, it was Superior Stamp and Coin. Superior, Abe Kosoff, and a few others were big fish out here in the business for many years. The best place to get coins imo was the George Bennett Auctions in Van Nuys, CA.
Flash forward to now, and all of the players have offices in Southern California. They wouldn't have offices here if many important customers weren't nearby.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I wouldn't dispute this. The entire west coast is coin collecting country. But I believe the conventional wisdom is that the southern part is more active than the northern.
My experience here is limited as it is only WA and OR.
@Coinhack . . . sent you a short PM. But yes . . . .I will be setting up there. Adjoining Bob White . . .from Portland OR.
Stop by . . . I just loaded an ice water in the cooler for you . . . and I'll have chocolate on ice as well. On the Sandy, UT 6-foot tables, there isn't room to put it out front !!!
Drunner
By nature of it's size (1/10th or more of the U.S. population) and high-income earners (Entertainment, Finance, Law, Real Estate, Silicon Valley, etc.), California always has been a good place for the coin business/hobby.
However, with hostile regulatory and taxation policies -- notably an income tax on high-income earners that approaches 15% (in addition to Federal and property taxes) -- unless you are a tax-insensitive ultra-HNW earner, for many people in the sweet spot of regular high-income ($150K - $500K) you are facing major headwinds. With this hobby/business skewing older, with many people drawing down their accumulated assets (pensions, 401Ks, IRAs, etc.), to lose an additional chunk of their income is a choice many are no longer willing to tolerate. Even Shohei Ohtani was smart enough to realize that !
I doubt that you'd see specific exemptions for gold or precious metals since so many of the politicians are hostile to business, income, and wealth. The state is hemmoraging businesses, jobs, and upper-middle income earners.
Given Florida's tax-friendly policies, I think that's major tailwinds for FUN to continue to grow and dominate the calendar and coin show circuit. And I would not be surprised to see Texas get into the act with a major annual show with the attractions, population size, and wealth they have to offer.
For Cali natives it can be easier for them than somebody relocate there just to go into a hobby related business like RCI.
Coins don’t pay interest or dividends and one can drown from the biz Opex and not even be living there. If you can buy below bid by at least 20 pct and sell at cost plus 30 pct or more you might have a chance to make it on a tight Opex budget. One wholesaler from there I buy from he has a lot of stuff walking in his shop way below bid. Otherwise it would have folded a long time ago he says.
There are specific exemptions though. For years, any bullion or numsimatic purchase >$1500 was tax free. The number is now $2000 and slated to move to $2500 at some point (I don't remember when).
It may need to be separated between casual and serious.
There would be IMO a greater concentration of casual collectors from the dreary cold weather States as an indoor activity.
Serious collectors would probably concentrate according to @jmanzlaf demos. The densely populated Metropolitan areas for sure.
I guess I have not given this much thought, but in my mind its just a simple combination of an already established business and simply the geographic preference of the principals.
Virginia Beach seems to be the fastest growing areas with DLRC, CAC and Whitman. I have no idea if this has anything to do with taxes. But, as a former Virginia resident, I can confirm that this is NOT the most wealthy area in VA (NOVA wins the $$$ race by a country mile).
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
At least a branch office right?
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I think that changed a few years ago. Blame Elon Musk!
Dwayne F. Sessom
Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
This must be a guess because it's wrong.
I've attended many meetings of the Peninsula Coin Club in Palo Alto.
I know a good number of collectors in CA (& I’m among them). There are local shows every weekend, several in the Bay Area.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
There is quite a bit of money in California. Where there is money, people buy collectibles. Though as others said, the likes of Stacks, Heritage, etc., are here because well to do people like to spend. And they don't buy generic Wheat Backed Lincolns.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Hell, yeah, I would even work for them part-time grading coins! Be pretty easy 66, 66, 66, ooh 67, 66, 66…