Buffalo Nickels: 2 Feather Die Varieties

Teakie2

Does anyone have a copy of Ron Pope’s book on abraded die buffalo varieties that they would be willing to sell or use to help me figure out what went wrong with my last PCGS Submission?

I sent in my 2 Feather collection for grading and attribution, and only one of the ten I’ve sent in came back with the 2 Feather variety. It seems that any nickel I sent in that had even the SLIGHTEST trace of a 3rd feather was rejected, even if such a presence is expected for the specific date and mintmark.

I’ll share some pictures of my rejected coins, next to an attributed example, and perhaps we can see what I, or PCGS, is doing wrong?? Hopefully someone with the book can guide me regarding specific diagnostics

• Teakie2

crazyhounddog

You have answered your own question already. IF there is ANY trace of the 3rd feather it will be rejected. It’s as simple as that. I hope that helps. Yes, I do have have that book.

ChrisH821

I didn't know that he finished it.
I only have his book on strike.

Teakie2

Update: I was actually able to find a pdf of Pope's book thanks to @Aspie_Rocco 's post on reference books for errors and varieties

On the topic of what defines a 2 Feather, I found this:

it seems that though there are small traces of the feather present, coins can still be classified as a 2 Feather with a corresponding FS number. The 1927-S is a great example of that, it has one FS number, two die variants, and both have a relatively significant trace of a 3rd feather. Furthermore, all PCGS TrueViews of the 1927-S 2 Feather seem to have those traces of the 3rd Feather present.

@crazyhounddog I think you are absolutely correct that if PCGS sees ANY part of third feather, it will be rejected. I guess what I'm saying is that this is not the correct way to properly attribute these varieties. There clearly is more depth to it, and I think that the variety department must have changed how they look at them, because there's a plethora of "partial feathers" attributed as 2 Feathers.

BWRC

I think his book can be found online here:

https://archive.org/details/buffalonickelsab2006ronp/page/n7/mode/2up

ad4400

The variety attribution is far from consistent. With your specific coins, the 1923 is so ultra rare it’s hard to make comparisons but the truview does reflect some remnant of the 3rd feather.

For the 27-s and 28-s, if I recall Ron’s book, are only know with partial 3rd feathers, and PCGS has attributed those as 2f because, well, no ‘true’ 2f exists for those dates. I have tried and failed 2f submissions for both these dates. I don’t recall the diagnostic for the 27-s, for the 28-a look for clashes in feather area and between forehead and E in LIBERTY and through EPU on reverse. Here is my 28-s I’ve tried a couple times and is just as much a 2f as anything else PCGS has attributed .

OnWithTheHunt

Seen many a Buffalo with fragments of the small feather slabbed as 2-feathers by PCGS and other services, including years that are known for having no trace coins of the feather at all.

nencoin

I've run into this before. I sent a coin in with less third feather detail than most of the Coin Facts plate photos and it was rejected. I get it - they've changed their grading standards. No problem. It just seems like they should at least swap out the plate photos.

Shamika

Teakie2 - I have a copy of Ron's book on abraded die varieties. Send me a PM if you have any questions or if there's anything I can help you with. Ron and I corresponded for years discussing abraded Buffs.

For those who don't already know... Ron's book on the subject is great and his strike study is exceptional. I lobbied for Dave Lange to include Ron's strike study in future revisions of Dave's book on Buffalo Nickels. Alas, both passed away before this could be accomplished.

PeakRarities

That you, Frank?

Teakie2

@DeplorableDan said:
That you, Frank?

Yes sir! Good to see you on the forums Dan!

PeakRarities

@Teakie2 said:

@DeplorableDan said:
That you, Frank?

Yes sir! Good to see you on the forums Dan!

Likewise! Take your coat off and stay while, a lot of good folks here.