@2dueces said:
Here’s what I don’t understand. WTF did you @doubledragon high jack my thread in the first place? If you don’t like horse racing start your own rant about it. You and the other jerk wad had no business posting. But you had to post BS in my thread. I’ve been a defender of you when others bashed you but I now see why. You threatened to quit numerous times and never do. So stay or go but leave my threads alone. An innocent thread about a race and who’s going to win turned into some peta toast. See ya.
Your thread, LOL, last time I checked it was BLUEJAYWAY's thread. Despite what you think, it is a free country and people have a right to voice their opinions about the various topics on the sports forum. I've watched a lot of videos and read a lot about what really goes on in horse racing, I've seen the behind the scenes horrors, despite you all trying to sugarcoat it and make it out to be some innocent sport, it's not, it's animal abuse on steroids. Why don't you watch the video I posted above? Are you scared you might see something horrible? Nah, you don't give a damn about the horses, all you care about is making a few bucks, you and the rest of the degenerate gamblers.
Lost a $100 on the race but won over $700 playing poker
Nice hit! 💲
That thing i mentioned a few years ago about members here sponsoring a player to enter the 10k buy-in WSOP tourney. I'm still in for at least a $500 share, if enough interest can be generated. That would sure make for one helluva thread. 😊
Lost a $100 on the race but won over $700 playing poker
Nice hit! 💲
That thing i mentioned a few years ago about members here sponsoring a player to enter the 10k buy-in WSOP tourney. I'm still in for at least a $500 share, if enough interest can be generated. That would sure make for one helluva thread. 😊
So. Wow. There’s a lot wrong with the horse racing industry. It’s actually so much worse than I would have imagined. While I don’t think the information was presented well and this isn’t necessarily the repository of responsibility, I’m glad it came up.
Well DD, many of us are gonna miss ya. Best wishes and good luck.
I'll try to keep your boxing thread going for ya, when I think about it, but I probably will forget. However just be told that if I do remember, all my posts will be about Joe Frazier. He's my favorite boxer of all time, and frankly, I don't have any second favorite. 😉
@stevek said:
Well DD, many of us are gonna miss ya. Best wishes and good luck.
I'll try to keep your boxing thread going for ya, when I think about it, but I probably will forget. However just be told that if I do remember, all my posts will be about Joe Frazier. He's my favorite boxer of all time, and frankly, I don't have any second favorite. 😉
No, you know what, I've edited all my posts, I'm not done with this subject, I'm going to start a thread on this garbage so called sport. The horses don't have a voice in all of this, but I do.
@stevek said:
Well DD, many of us are gonna miss ya. Best wishes and good luck.
I'll try to keep your boxing thread going for ya, when I think about it, but I probably will forget. However just be told that if I do remember, all my posts will be about Joe Frazier. He's my favorite boxer of all time, and frankly, I don't have any second favorite. 😉
No, you know what, I've edited all my posts, I'm not done with this subject, I'm going to start a thread on this garbage so called sport. The horses don't have a voice in all of this, but I do.
You hijacked the OJ Simpson sports thread. Now you’ve hijacked their derby thread.
How about you stop hijacking other people’s threads and start your own.
Thanks
@2dueces said:
After racing careers the majority, not the minority go to stud or live their lives on farms as training animals for younger horses.
I have rescued enough race horses to know that this isn't the case. You find me a nice racehorse retirement/stud house. I'll wait.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
i can say with the highest degree of certainty that everyone here possesses inherent goodness. that's the most important sentence in this TL;DR post. but in the same breath, we all compartmentalize differently. to be expected, that's what makes us human. if we all drew a line in the sand in the exact same spot, what an unrealistic world we'd be living in. i choose to extract the entertainment value out of each individual sport while being cognizant of the fact that every single one of them is comprised of reprehensible components. if i took a shovel out and dug deep enough, i could take a moral stand on all of them and eventually sports as a whole wouldn't be a part of my life. but that is something i choose not to do, because sports briefly liberates me from the trials and tribulations associated with everyday life. nothing less, nothing more, that's just how i personally roll.
take my favorite sport -- golf. how could there possibly be a point of contention in a sport where "unathletic" men and women slap a small ball around? au contraire. there are millions of people who think that if you are a fan of the breakaway LIV tour, then you're essentially stealing oxygen. that's beyond the pale, in my opinion. moreover, an untold number of those same people are swimming in hypocrisy because the fuel in their vehicle originated from beneath the surface in Saudi Arabia. so unless you ride a bike to work, shut your mouth and allow people to like what they want.
where's the public outrage toward anyone who owns a Henry Ruggs jersey? or Raiders fans in general? shouldn't those people be banished from the earth due to the fact that they root for a player and/or team that had a living, breathing human being on its roster whose list of priorities didn't include the welfare of other living, breathing human beings?
if i catch wind of Darin cheering whenever Rashee Rice makes a house call should i sever my friendship with him?
if perkdog's card collection includes an O.J. Simpson rookie card is it time for me to block him?
we can chase our tails all day long, people.
sports is a microcosm of almost every situation you encounter in your daily life -- where the potential for both good and bad is always there, and often times it's realized. unfortunately for horse racing, to get to the desired result there are some unsavory steps taken along the way. but just because you happen to have an affinity for it doesn't mean you are numb to the plight of the horses themselves. for many caring people, including myself, those are not mutually exclusive events.........they can both happen.
when you step outside for some fresh air and dissect every sport, you quickly realize that a grand total of none of them are immune from serious scrutiny. NFL teams employ unsavory individuals in order to (hopefully) hoist a Lombardi. some of those same individuals legit don't care if their actions result in the death of someone else. yet i'll step on a tenuous limb and say that every single one of you tunes into at least one NFL game during the season.
compartmentalize. we all do it differently. but the moment you start talking to fellow forum members like they are yesterday's garbage and attempt to ram your moral fist down their throat, it all of a sudden becomes a you problem. once you reach that point i'd be very careful about not wearing shoes, because the shards from your glass house are going to slice open the bottom of your foot.
@stevek said:
Horses don't look at the whip as a punitive devise. They see it as a survival devise from their human masters so they accept it. Therefore while yes, horses feel pain when the whipping occurs, it really doesn't mentally bother them at all.
I promise you this isnt the case. The horse 100% knows what the whip is and how it's used. When you take a horse into a riding arena or round pen to work with them or work them out the horse acts a certain way. If you then produce a whip the horse stairs intently at the whip. They know what it is, they know what its used for. They do not like the whip. They act differently when you bring the whip out.
Horse racing being bad isnt complicated. Like I said the horses are used and broken by 3-5 and they dont get a happy fairytale retirement. The horse who wins Kentucky Derby gets retired and stud. The hundreds of losers do not.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
@stevek said:
Horses don't look at the whip as a punitive devise. They see it as a survival devise from their human masters so they accept it. Therefore while yes, horses feel pain when the whipping occurs, it really doesn't mentally bother them at all.
I promise you this isnt the case. The horse 100% knows what the whip is and how it's used. When you take a horse into a riding arena or round pen to work with them or work them out the horse acts a certain way. If you then produce a whip the horse stairs intently at the whip. They know what it is, they know what its used for. They do not like the whip. They act differently when you bring the whip out.
Horse racing being bad isnt complicated. Like I said the horses are used and broken by 3-5 and they dont get a happy fairytale retirement. The horse who wins Kentucky Derby gets retired and stud. The hundreds of losers do not.
My comment you mentioned was meant specifically for thoroughbred horses. I also stated that "basically" thoroughbreds don't feel the whip until their first race. That's what I have read. This is because they are actually trained to hold back their full speed, the rider using the reins to rate them, so the horse learns to save some energy for later.
Using the whip to teach horses various tricks and such, is an entirely different matter. Those horses cannot be trained to do tricks without tactically using a whip.
Why would thoroughbred horses not feel a whip until the first race? I think the training is going to involve a lot of whipping and not just on race day.
The arabian I had that was a former race horse had long whip scars on both sides of his torso. That horse 100% felt those whips breaking his skin and scaring him for life. I wouldn't trust anything written by trainers that minimizes the horros of horse racing. "Sure we use a whip, but they dont feel it!" is a poor justification for abuse.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
I'm sorry if I wrecked the thread, I wasn't even going to comment on it until I saw 2dueces jump all over RiveraFamilyCollect just for giving his opinion on horse racing, he has a right to give his opinion. If 2dueces can't take it, then maybe he shouldn't dish it.
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
Why would thoroughbred horses not feel a whip until the first race? I think the training is going to involve a lot of whipping and not just on race day.
The arabian I had that was a former race horse had long whip scars on both sides of his torso. That horse 100% felt those whips breaking his skin and scaring him for life. I wouldn't trust anything written by trainers that minimizes the horros of horse racing. "Sure we use a whip, but they dont feel it!" is a poor justification for abuse.
Over the years I have heard countless numbers of trainers and owners comment on how their horse reacted to the whip in their first race. It being a given that this was the first time their horse felt it.
Most thoroughbreds respond "positively" to it, in which the whip gets them to run faster as desired. However there are a few thoroughbreds who respond negatively to the whip, and run slower, sometimes almost stopping on a dime, and therefore in future races the whip isn't used on them.
I've seen instances in thoroughbred races where either right out of the gate or very shortly thereafter, the horse throws the jockey. Likely because the horse knows the whip is coming later in the race. I've seen a few jockeys thrown even after the race was over.
You want to know the truth about something, I'm honestly very disappointed in some people on this forum that didn't donate one nickel to Eric's family after he passed away, you know who you are. I'm the poorest guy on this whole website, I live in a freakin' trailer and even I gave $100. Eric was one of the best guys I've ever met, he would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it, and he lost his life for Christ sake. If my worst enemy on the forum passed away, I would still donate to his family because it's the right thing to do and I realize how serious losing your life is. You know what, I honestly think it is just best if I go away for a while, don't want to cause any more problems.
Yea sure, it's a one room cheap apartment, with no heat or air conditioning, and a community bathroom. But there are hundreds of apartment rooms, and so I've read that technically the building is worth 5 million dollars.
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
Why would thoroughbred horses not feel a whip until the first race? I think the training is going to involve a lot of whipping and not just on race day.
The arabian I had that was a former race horse had long whip scars on both sides of his torso. That horse 100% felt those whips breaking his skin and scaring him for life. I wouldn't trust anything written by trainers that minimizes the horros of horse racing. "Sure we use a whip, but they dont feel it!" is a poor justification for abuse.
Horrors of horse racing ?
Lol. It’s a sport.
Are there “horrors” in boxing when a guy’s brain bounces inside his head ?
Are there horrors when guys have surgery because the inside of their bodies tear apart?
I’m a former athlete.
Concussion? Yes
Neck injury? Yes
Busted ligaments and bones ? Yes
Bloodied ? Often
Never once a horror. All just part of the fun.
Play golf if you can’t handle tough competitions.
Sit in an air conditioned office if you can’t handle the marines.
Life has suffering. I embrace suffering. It’s part of life.
@doubledragon said:
You want to know the truth about something, I'm honestly very disappointed in some people on this forum that didn't donate one nickel to Eric's family after he passed away, you know who you are. I'm the poorest guy on this whole website, I live in a freakin' trailer and even I gave $100. Eric was one of the best guys I've ever met, he would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it, and he lost his life for Christ sake. If my worst enemy on the forum passed away, I would still donate to his family because it's the right thing to do and I realize how serious losing your life is. You know what, I honestly think it is just best if I go away for a while, don't want to cause any more problems.
Try stop being disappointed in how others choose to live their lives.
You seem to think everyone should think like you do, and if they don’t you will be offended.
Respect those you disagree with.
It will change your life for the better.
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
Why would thoroughbred horses not feel a whip until the first race? I think the training is going to involve a lot of whipping and not just on race day.
The arabian I had that was a former race horse had long whip scars on both sides of his torso. That horse 100% felt those whips breaking his skin and scaring him for life. I wouldn't trust anything written by trainers that minimizes the horros of horse racing. "Sure we use a whip, but they dont feel it!" is a poor justification for abuse.
Horrors of horse racing ?
Lol. It’s a sport.
Are there “horrors” in boxing when a guy’s brain bounces inside his head ?
Are there horrors when guys have surgery because the inside of their bodies tear apart?
I’m a former athlete.
Concussion? Yes
Neck injury? Yes
Busted ligaments and bones ? Yes
Bloodied ? Often
Never once a horror. All just part of the fun.
Play golf if you can’t handle tough competitions.
Sit in an air conditioned office if you can’t handle the marines.
Life has suffering. I embrace suffering. It’s part of life.
"Play golf if you can’t handle tough competitions."
Golf is tougher than it looks. My Dad was a prolific golfer for a long time. In later years he developed very painful muscle tear problems, and also multiple bouts of skin cancer, which the doctor told him was likely from playing too much golf.
Mental toughness as well. I recall reading something Lee Trevino once said. I think he was going into the final round of a big tourney, and he was right up there with the leaders. A reporter asked him if he felt a lot of pressure going into this final round. Trevino replied (close paraphrase) "Pressure nah, pressure is when you're putting for $20, and you've only got $5 in your pocket."
Golf is one of the biggest player wagering games out there, with hustlers galore, etc. The hustler may have around the same handicap as another player, but he has the ability to stay cool under pressure. Makes those key putts when he needs to, and takes home the money off the players who usually choke.
@doubledragon said:
You want to know the truth about something, I'm honestly very disappointed in some people on this forum that didn't donate one nickel to Eric's family after he passed away, you know who you are. I'm the poorest guy on this whole website, I live in a freakin' trailer and even I gave $100. Eric was one of the best guys I've ever met, he would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it, and he lost his life for Christ sake. If my worst enemy on the forum passed away, I would still donate to his family because it's the right thing to do and I realize how serious losing your life is. You know what, I honestly think it is just best if I go away for a while, don't want to cause any more problems.
Try stop being disappointed in how others choose to live their lives.
You seem to think everyone should think like you do, and if they don’t you will be offended.
Respect those you disagree with.
It will change your life for the better.
First of all, my post was about the people who didn't donate to Eric's family after he lost his life, Eric was part of our community and one of the nicest people you'll ever meet and I thought it was pretty rotten of people to snub his family that way. Second of all, you want to talk about how you embrace suffering, have you ever been homeless for four years and had to eat out of a dumpster? Sleep in the woods in a tent in the dead of winter for Four years? Gone into cardiac arrest and had to be revived? Because I have, and it wasn't something I embraced. It was something I went through because of certain circumstances but I made it through and got back on my feet, met a woman and live in a trailer, we're not the richest people but we are blessed to have enough and it certainly beats living in the woods. I don't talk about this stuff because it's embarrassing, but I went through it, and I suffered like hell, and I would never want to go through it again. So stop talking about how you embrace suffering, because you don't know what it means to really suffer. As far as respecting people's opinions, I do. If I jumped in everyone's face every time they said something I didn't agree with I would stay angry 24/7, sometimes certain things I have to speak out about because they get to me, like your beloved thread dedicated to a double murderer, or horse racing. And for God's sake, stop comparing horse racing to other sports, horses don't have a choice to participate like humans do, if they did I'm pretty sure a lot of them would say, no thanks, I don't want to risk breaking my leg in half and being put down on the spot. A lot of them probably would rather die in the wild, I know I would rather die free than die at some track with some jerk on my back whipping me and a bunch of degenerate gamblers with hot dogs and beer and stupid looking hats screaming at me to make them some money.
@doubledragon said:
You want to know the truth about something, I'm honestly very disappointed in some people on this forum that didn't donate one nickel to Eric's family after he passed away, you know who you are. I'm the poorest guy on this whole website, I live in a freakin' trailer and even I gave $100. Eric was one of the best guys I've ever met, he would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it, and he lost his life for Christ sake. If my worst enemy on the forum passed away, I would still donate to his family because it's the right thing to do and I realize how serious losing your life is. You know what, I honestly think it is just best if I go away for a while, don't want to cause any more problems.
Try stop being disappointed in how others choose to live their lives.
You seem to think everyone should think like you do, and if they don’t you will be offended.
Respect those you disagree with.
It will change your life for the better.
First of all, my post was about the people who didn't donate to Eric's family after he lost his life, Eric was part of our community and one of the nicest people you'll ever meet and I thought it was pretty rotten of people to snub his family that way. Second of all, you want to talk about how you embrace suffering, have you ever been homeless for four years and had to eat out of a dumpster? Sleep in the woods in a tent in the dead of winter for Four years? Gone into cardiac arrest and had to be revived? Because I have, and it wasn't something I embraced. It was something I went through because of certain circumstances but I made it through and got back on my feet, met a woman and live in a trailer, we're not the richest people but we are blessed to have enough and it certainly beats living in the woods. I don't talk about this stuff because it's embarrassing, but I went through it, and I suffered like hell, and I would never want to go through it again. So stop talking about how you embrace suffering, because you don't know what it means to really suffer. As far as respecting people's opinions, I do. If I jumped in everyone's face every time they said something I didn't agree with I would stay angry 24/7, sometimes certain things I have to speak out about because they get to me, like your beloved thread dedicated to a double murderer, or horse racing. And for God's sake, stop comparing horse racing to other sports, horses don't have a choice to participate like humans do, if they did I'm pretty sure a lot of them would say, no thanks, I don't want to risk breaking my leg in half and being put down on the spot. A lot of them probably would rather die in the wild, I know I would rather die free than die at some track with some jerk on my back whipping me and a bunch of degenerate gamblers with hot dogs and beer and stupid looking hats screaming at me to make them some money.
That’s fair, but I hope you understand that there is at least one here, and perhaps more, who have donated more money their entire life then your total net worth, who only choose to donate to specific charities as a rule.
Accept others for how they choose to live their lives.
Your suffering is nothing compared to mine. I lost everything near and dear to me in life once, nearly died, and am still struggling.
Did you ever face possible death due to health reasons? Knowing you couldn’t be here to care for your family ?
Did you lose 3 years of your life due to health reasons? Stuck in a house ?
A rare disease crushed a hard working man.
Did you ever almost lose your family and career from a false accusation?
Did your brothers ever leave you because of a false accusation?
Ever get interrogated by police over something you never did ?
I can go on and on but it’s too personal.
Horses have no choice in racing.
Neither do young children getting in a car, and more kids die in cars then horses do in racing. Life is dangerous.
@doubledragon said:
You want to know the truth about something, I'm honestly very disappointed in some people on this forum that didn't donate one nickel to Eric's family after he passed away, you know who you are. I'm the poorest guy on this whole website, I live in a freakin' trailer and even I gave $100. Eric was one of the best guys I've ever met, he would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it, and he lost his life for Christ sake. If my worst enemy on the forum passed away, I would still donate to his family because it's the right thing to do and I realize how serious losing your life is. You know what, I honestly think it is just best if I go away for a while, don't want to cause any more problems.
Try stop being disappointed in how others choose to live their lives.
You seem to think everyone should think like you do, and if they don’t you will be offended.
Respect those you disagree with.
It will change your life for the better.
First of all, my post was about the people who didn't donate to Eric's family after he lost his life, Eric was part of our community and one of the nicest people you'll ever meet and I thought it was pretty rotten of people to snub his family that way. Second of all, you want to talk about how you embrace suffering, have you ever been homeless for four years and had to eat out of a dumpster? Sleep in the woods in a tent in the dead of winter for Four years? Gone into cardiac arrest and had to be revived? Because I have, and it wasn't something I embraced. It was something I went through because of certain circumstances but I made it through and got back on my feet, met a woman and live in a trailer, we're not the richest people but we are blessed to have enough and it certainly beats living in the woods. I don't talk about this stuff because it's embarrassing, but I went through it, and I suffered like hell, and I would never want to go through it again. So stop talking about how you embrace suffering, because you don't know what it means to really suffer. As far as respecting people's opinions, I do. If I jumped in everyone's face every time they said something I didn't agree with I would stay angry 24/7, sometimes certain things I have to speak out about because they get to me, like your beloved thread dedicated to a double murderer, or horse racing. And for God's sake, stop comparing horse racing to other sports, horses don't have a choice to participate like humans do, if they did I'm pretty sure a lot of them would say, no thanks, I don't want to risk breaking my leg in half and being put down on the spot. A lot of them probably would rather die in the wild, I know I would rather die free than die at some track with some jerk on my back whipping me and a bunch of degenerate gamblers with hot dogs and beer and stupid looking hats screaming at me to make them some money.
That’s fair, but I hope you understand that there is at least one here, and perhaps more, who have donated more money their entire life then your total net worth, who only choose to donate to specific charities as a rule.
Accept others for how they choose to live their lives.
Your suffering is nothing compared to mine. I lost everything near and dear to me in life once, nearly died, and am still struggling.
The things you say are just mind boggling.
My net worth? You can't put a price tag on human life. And as far as donating goes, if people can't kick in a few dollars for a guy like Eric, who was an absolute kind soul, then the hell with them. I've lost people too pal, five in the past seven years, including my father, who was my best friend in life, so don't try to lecture me on heartbreak. You know, when I first joined the forum I didn't really speak my mind about things, but I started to and maybe that was a mistake. It's obvious you all don't want me here because I speak my mind. It's been a fun five years, and I wish all of you nothing but the best.
@doubledragon said:
You want to know the truth about something, I'm honestly very disappointed in some people on this forum that didn't donate one nickel to Eric's family after he passed away, you know who you are. I'm the poorest guy on this whole website, I live in a freakin' trailer and even I gave $100. Eric was one of the best guys I've ever met, he would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it, and he lost his life for Christ sake. If my worst enemy on the forum passed away, I would still donate to his family because it's the right thing to do and I realize how serious losing your life is. You know what, I honestly think it is just best if I go away for a while, don't want to cause any more problems.
Try stop being disappointed in how others choose to live their lives.
You seem to think everyone should think like you do, and if they don’t you will be offended.
Respect those you disagree with.
It will change your life for the better.
First of all, my post was about the people who didn't donate to Eric's family after he lost his life, Eric was part of our community and one of the nicest people you'll ever meet and I thought it was pretty rotten of people to snub his family that way. Second of all, you want to talk about how you embrace suffering, have you ever been homeless for four years and had to eat out of a dumpster? Sleep in the woods in a tent in the dead of winter for Four years? Gone into cardiac arrest and had to be revived? Because I have, and it wasn't something I embraced. It was something I went through because of certain circumstances but I made it through and got back on my feet, met a woman and live in a trailer, we're not the richest people but we are blessed to have enough and it certainly beats living in the woods. I don't talk about this stuff because it's embarrassing, but I went through it, and I suffered like hell, and I would never want to go through it again. So stop talking about how you embrace suffering, because you don't know what it means to really suffer. As far as respecting people's opinions, I do. If I jumped in everyone's face every time they said something I didn't agree with I would stay angry 24/7, sometimes certain things I have to speak out about because they get to me, like your beloved thread dedicated to a double murderer, or horse racing. And for God's sake, stop comparing horse racing to other sports, horses don't have a choice to participate like humans do, if they did I'm pretty sure a lot of them would say, no thanks, I don't want to risk breaking my leg in half and being put down on the spot. A lot of them probably would rather die in the wild, I know I would rather die free than die at some track with some jerk on my back whipping me and a bunch of degenerate gamblers with hot dogs and beer and stupid looking hats screaming at me to make them some money.
That’s fair, but I hope you understand that there is at least one here, and perhaps more, who have donated more money their entire life then your total net worth, who only choose to donate to specific charities as a rule.
Accept others for how they choose to live their lives.
Your suffering is nothing compared to mine. I lost everything near and dear to me in life once, nearly died, and am still struggling.
The things you say are just mind boggling.
My net worth? You can't put a price tag on human life. And as far as donating goes, if people can't kick in a few dollars for a guy like Eric, who was an absolute kind soul, then the hell with them. I've lost people too pal, five in the past seven years, including my father, who was my best friend in life, so don't try to lecture me on heartbreak. You know, when I first joined the forum I didn't really speak my mind about things, but I started to and maybe that was a mistake. It's obvious you all don't want me here because I speak my mind. It's been a fun five years, and I wish all of you nothing but the best.
Lol. It’s a sport.
Are there “horrors” in boxing when a guy’s brain bounces inside his head ?
Are there horrors when guys have surgery because the inside of their bodies tear apart?
So how come war get "horrors" Mr. Marine? Because people die in war? Ok got it we have a benchmark. How many horses were put down or died leading for the Kentucky derby?
If a dozen athletes died in the olmpyics it would be "horrors" of the olympics.
Sure, I wrestled and got a knee injury. That's sports people get hurt. But horse racing isnt sports, it's a massive money making complex.
We put people like Michael Vick in prison for his part in dog fighting, he killed so many dogs. Cock fighting is the same. We allow boxing because the fighters have a choice. Notice the clear legal divide we have created here? Blood sports that hurt animals are and should be illegal.
Horse racing is clearly a blood sport and some of us are willing to take a moral stand against something this unethical.
Others like the spectacle for some bizarre reason. 99% of the time DGAF about horses; triple crown? Everyone cares.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
Lost a $100 on the race but won over $700 playing poker
Well done sir!!!
It appears some "all in" guys got caught with their pants down.
It was late and I was down a $100, had about $90 stack and was holding Q10, my buddy to the right pushed all in, I said screw it and followed then 3 others did the same, after all was said and done I caught a Queen on the turn and it held up, 1 guy was flushing and 2 other guys had Jacks!
Well done sir!!!
It appears some "all in" guys got caught with their pants down.
It was late and I was down a $100, had about $90 stack and was holding Q10, my buddy to the right pushed all in, I said screw it and followed then 3 others did the same, after all was said and done I caught a Queen on the turn and it held up, 1 guy was flushing and 2 other guys had Jacks!
Thanks Al!
SWEET SWEET!! Sometimes you gotta go with your gut. I wish I could have seen it play out.
A pic from my good fortune on the felt. I think I posted the straight flush b4 and I recall you had caught one too...what a rush when the queen fell for me!!! Major $$$
I added 3 pics from my Australia cruise...I don't know why, they were just next to the straight flush pic. Anyway, that's a view of the Sydney Opera house, downtown Sydney, and the famous bridge where they shoot off a massive fireworks display on NY's Eve. People actually pay to walk over that thing. IF you can...go see downunder and include NZ...awzzzzzum. Some kinda fine ladies!!!
Well done sir!!!
It appears some "all in" guys got caught with their pants down.
It was late and I was down a $100, had about $90 stack and was holding Q10, my buddy to the right pushed all in, I said screw it and followed then 3 others did the same, after all was said and done I caught a Queen on the turn and it held up, 1 guy was flushing and 2 other guys had Jacks!
Thanks Al!
SWEET SWEET!! Sometimes you gotta go with your gut. I wish I could have seen it play out.
A pic from my good fortune on the felt. I think I posted the straight flush b4 and I recall you had caught one too...what a rush when the queen fell for me!!! Major $$$
I added 3 pics from my Australia cruise...I don't know why, they were just next to the straight flush pic. Anyway, that's a view of the Sydney Opera house, downtown Sydney, and the famous bridge where they shoot off a massive fireworks display on NY's Eve. People actually pay to walk over that thing. IF you can...go see downunder and include NZ...awzzzzzum. Some kinda fine ladies!!!
Awesome Al
Looking at that Straight Flush I bet people who are not card players cannot grasp how difficult that hand is to get!!!
Lost a $100 on the race but won over $700 playing poker
Well done sir!!!
It appears some "all in" guys got caught with their pants down.
It was late and I was down a $100, had about $90 stack and was holding Q10, my buddy to the right pushed all in, I said screw it and followed then 3 others did the same, after all was said and done I caught a Queen on the turn and it held up, 1 guy was flushing and 2 other guys had Jacks!
Thanks Al!
From the movie, The Cincinnati Kid: about a high stakes poker game
"That's what it's all about, making the wrong move at the right time"
Lost a $100 on the race but won over $700 playing poker
Well done sir!!!
It appears some "all in" guys got caught with their pants down.
It was late and I was down a $100, had about $90 stack and was holding Q10, my buddy to the right pushed all in, I said screw it and followed then 3 others did the same, after all was said and done I caught a Queen on the turn and it held up, 1 guy was flushing and 2 other guys had Jacks!
Thanks Al!
From the movie, The Cincinnati Kid: about a high stakes poker game
"That's what it's all about, making the wrong move at the right time"
"You're good kid,but as long as I'm around your're second best".
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
Lost a $100 on the race but won over $700 playing poker
Well done sir!!!
It appears some "all in" guys got caught with their pants down.
It was late and I was down a $100, had about $90 stack and was holding Q10, my buddy to the right pushed all in, I said screw it and followed then 3 others did the same, after all was said and done I caught a Queen on the turn and it held up, 1 guy was flushing and 2 other guys had Jacks!
Thanks Al!
From the movie, The Cincinnati Kid: about a high stakes poker game
"That's what it's all about, making the wrong move at the right time"
"You're good kid,but as long as I'm around your're second best".
Steve McQueen was so rattled after that, he couldn't even beat the young boy for a dime coin toss. LOL
Looking at that Straight Flush I bet people who are not card players cannot grasp how difficult that hand is to get!!!
I got curious, the odds are 0.0213 to make the gut shot on the river.
I got so excited when it hit, I went all in, nobody called me. I obviously won the pot, but had I just caught my breath, I couldh've wiped out 3 other players and rocked the room.
Looking at that Straight Flush I bet people who are not card players cannot grasp how difficult that hand is to get!!!
I got curious, the odds are 0.0213 to make the gut shot on the river.
I got so excited when it hit, I went all in, nobody called me. I obviously won the pot, but had I just caught my breath, I couldh've wiped out 3 other players and rocked the room.
Take care.
Your odds are a little bit off, but 1 outcome is always a long-shot so it doesn't matter. It wasn't a great board for big bets. If someone had the A-high flush and you were both check-fishing... a better board where someone hits a FH on the river could get a push.
From your comment "Major $$$" seems like you made a very nice score.
It's funny though with poker, sometimes you can have too much hand. On this one free to play website I enjoy, the game is taken very seriously. In this one hand, I had the nut boat, second nut hand if he had quads, going into the river, and I knew the way the opponent was playing it, he likely had the second boat. Anyway, the river is a king which gave me quads. It was exactly the card I didn't want to see because there were two kings on the board before that, and this made it three kings on the board. I of course had a pocket king. I had position, and so the opponent had to act first and he checked. Without that dam fourth king, IE too much hand, I'm sure he would have shoved and I would have snap called and taken his stack. I knew he wasn't going to call my shove after he checked, so I made around a pot size bet just to grab at least some of his chips. He's a good player, and he knew I likely had quads, or at least a better boat, and thus he made the right decision and folded.
That straight flush you hit was well hidden though, which was great. If the opponent has the ace flush, he's getting felted because he simply can't fold an ace flush there. Other hands that would be a tough fold are a JKos gives him a straight, always possible trips, etc. Very tough fold even though those other hands with that board are only bluff catchers. Sometimes ya just go broke and not much ya can do about it, because you cannot play scared poker and win in the long run.
I play at the local Elk's it's a small cash buy in. We all start with $5k in chips and allow rebuys up to the 4th or 5th hand. There is no way to play much strategy here, they drink so much beer, I don't know how many don't get dui tix going home. I'm talkin' by the pail full, which is 6 beers per. Blinds start at $100-$200 and as it nears the end, I've seen it go to $6k to $12k...keeping in mind these are chips, not a cash game. Obviously it bites into your stack quickly.
When I wrote "major $$$", I was thinking of having upwards of $40-$60k in chips. The most I've ever won was a little over $250+/-, which is close to the average win. I can read a few guys, but as the night wears on, and the beer and Jack kick in, things get pretty loose. It's mostly a social event, certainly not any big $$ involved. There are private games where they play cash, though I've never played there, I'm told it can get pretty serious.
I don't think I could handle a real cash TexasHoldem game, blackjack is my thing!
Comments
Your thread, LOL, last time I checked it was BLUEJAYWAY's thread. Despite what you think, it is a free country and people have a right to voice their opinions about the various topics on the sports forum. I've watched a lot of videos and read a lot about what really goes on in horse racing, I've seen the behind the scenes horrors, despite you all trying to sugarcoat it and make it out to be some innocent sport, it's not, it's animal abuse on steroids. Why don't you watch the video I posted above? Are you scared you might see something horrible? Nah, you don't give a damn about the horses, all you care about is making a few bucks, you and the rest of the degenerate gamblers.
Respect. Go out in a blaze of glory. I hope you get the help you need!
Nice hit! 💲
That thing i mentioned a few years ago about members here sponsoring a player to enter the 10k buy-in WSOP tourney. I'm still in for at least a $500 share, if enough interest can be generated. That would sure make for one helluva thread. 😊
BTW - $700 is nice, but 7 mil would be better. 😎
Haha thanks bud
Perk dog with the green !
@BLUEJAYWAY My apologies. I thought I started it. @doubledragon whatever floats your boat buddy. You really do need some kind of psychiatric help.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Secretariat was an incredible machine.
Man O War was spectacular.
My favorite was Mr. Ed
So. Wow. There’s a lot wrong with the horse racing industry. It’s actually so much worse than I would have imagined. While I don’t think the information was presented well and this isn’t necessarily the repository of responsibility, I’m glad it came up.
He even hit an inside the park homerun off Sandy Koufax
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
hey ya Perkdog...
Um...any Unopened Football Racks and/or any Tudor Teams and/or any Blaster Boxes with my guys showing Would Be Just Perfect for me...
🏈🏈🏈
We just use lettuce, no Sportscard or memorabilia 😂😂😂
Well DD, many of us are gonna miss ya. Best wishes and good luck.
I'll try to keep your boxing thread going for ya, when I think about it, but I probably will forget. However just be told that if I do remember, all my posts will be about Joe Frazier. He's my favorite boxer of all time, and frankly, I don't have any second favorite. 😉
No, you know what, I've edited all my posts, I'm not done with this subject, I'm going to start a thread on this garbage so called sport. The horses don't have a voice in all of this, but I do.
You hijacked the OJ Simpson sports thread. Now you’ve hijacked their derby thread.
How about you stop hijacking other people’s threads and start your own.
Thanks
I have rescued enough race horses to know that this isn't the case. You find me a nice racehorse retirement/stud house. I'll wait.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
looks like i missed an implosion over the weekend
i can say with the highest degree of certainty that everyone here possesses inherent goodness. that's the most important sentence in this TL;DR post. but in the same breath, we all compartmentalize differently. to be expected, that's what makes us human. if we all drew a line in the sand in the exact same spot, what an unrealistic world we'd be living in. i choose to extract the entertainment value out of each individual sport while being cognizant of the fact that every single one of them is comprised of reprehensible components. if i took a shovel out and dug deep enough, i could take a moral stand on all of them and eventually sports as a whole wouldn't be a part of my life. but that is something i choose not to do, because sports briefly liberates me from the trials and tribulations associated with everyday life. nothing less, nothing more, that's just how i personally roll.
take my favorite sport -- golf. how could there possibly be a point of contention in a sport where "unathletic" men and women slap a small ball around? au contraire. there are millions of people who think that if you are a fan of the breakaway LIV tour, then you're essentially stealing oxygen. that's beyond the pale, in my opinion. moreover, an untold number of those same people are swimming in hypocrisy because the fuel in their vehicle originated from beneath the surface in Saudi Arabia. so unless you ride a bike to work, shut your mouth and allow people to like what they want.
where's the public outrage toward anyone who owns a Henry Ruggs jersey? or Raiders fans in general? shouldn't those people be banished from the earth due to the fact that they root for a player and/or team that had a living, breathing human being on its roster whose list of priorities didn't include the welfare of other living, breathing human beings?
if i catch wind of Darin cheering whenever Rashee Rice makes a house call should i sever my friendship with him?
if perkdog's card collection includes an O.J. Simpson rookie card is it time for me to block him?
we can chase our tails all day long, people.
sports is a microcosm of almost every situation you encounter in your daily life -- where the potential for both good and bad is always there, and often times it's realized. unfortunately for horse racing, to get to the desired result there are some unsavory steps taken along the way. but just because you happen to have an affinity for it doesn't mean you are numb to the plight of the horses themselves. for many caring people, including myself, those are not mutually exclusive events.........they can both happen.
when you step outside for some fresh air and dissect every sport, you quickly realize that a grand total of none of them are immune from serious scrutiny. NFL teams employ unsavory individuals in order to (hopefully) hoist a Lombardi. some of those same individuals legit don't care if their actions result in the death of someone else. yet i'll step on a tenuous limb and say that every single one of you tunes into at least one NFL game during the season.
compartmentalize. we all do it differently. but the moment you start talking to fellow forum members like they are yesterday's garbage and attempt to ram your moral fist down their throat, it all of a sudden becomes a you problem. once you reach that point i'd be very careful about not wearing shoes, because the shards from your glass house are going to slice open the bottom of your foot.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
I promise you this isnt the case. The horse 100% knows what the whip is and how it's used. When you take a horse into a riding arena or round pen to work with them or work them out the horse acts a certain way. If you then produce a whip the horse stairs intently at the whip. They know what it is, they know what its used for. They do not like the whip. They act differently when you bring the whip out.
Horse racing being bad isnt complicated. Like I said the horses are used and broken by 3-5 and they dont get a happy fairytale retirement. The horse who wins Kentucky Derby gets retired and stud. The hundreds of losers do not.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
My comment you mentioned was meant specifically for thoroughbred horses. I also stated that "basically" thoroughbreds don't feel the whip until their first race. That's what I have read. This is because they are actually trained to hold back their full speed, the rider using the reins to rate them, so the horse learns to save some energy for later.
Using the whip to teach horses various tricks and such, is an entirely different matter. Those horses cannot be trained to do tricks without tactically using a whip.
Why would thoroughbred horses not feel a whip until the first race? I think the training is going to involve a lot of whipping and not just on race day.
The arabian I had that was a former race horse had long whip scars on both sides of his torso. That horse 100% felt those whips breaking his skin and scaring him for life. I wouldn't trust anything written by trainers that minimizes the horros of horse racing. "Sure we use a whip, but they dont feel it!" is a poor justification for abuse.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
I'm sorry if I wrecked the thread, I wasn't even going to comment on it until I saw 2dueces jump all over RiveraFamilyCollect just for giving his opinion on horse racing, he has a right to give his opinion. If 2dueces can't take it, then maybe he shouldn't dish it.
Over the years I have heard countless numbers of trainers and owners comment on how their horse reacted to the whip in their first race. It being a given that this was the first time their horse felt it.
Most thoroughbreds respond "positively" to it, in which the whip gets them to run faster as desired. However there are a few thoroughbreds who respond negatively to the whip, and run slower, sometimes almost stopping on a dime, and therefore in future races the whip isn't used on them.
I've seen instances in thoroughbred races where either right out of the gate or very shortly thereafter, the horse throws the jockey. Likely because the horse knows the whip is coming later in the race. I've seen a few jockeys thrown even after the race was over.
You want to know the truth about something, I'm honestly very disappointed in some people on this forum that didn't donate one nickel to Eric's family after he passed away, you know who you are. I'm the poorest guy on this whole website, I live in a freakin' trailer and even I gave $100. Eric was one of the best guys I've ever met, he would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it, and he lost his life for Christ sake. If my worst enemy on the forum passed away, I would still donate to his family because it's the right thing to do and I realize how serious losing your life is. You know what, I honestly think it is just best if I go away for a while, don't want to cause any more problems.
I'm looking forward to the Preakness thread. 😨
"I live in a freakin' trailer"
I live in a 5 million dollar mansion.
Yea sure, it's a one room cheap apartment, with no heat or air conditioning, and a community bathroom. But there are hundreds of apartment rooms, and so I've read that technically the building is worth 5 million dollars.
Horrors of horse racing ?
Lol. It’s a sport.
Are there “horrors” in boxing when a guy’s brain bounces inside his head ?
Are there horrors when guys have surgery because the inside of their bodies tear apart?
I’m a former athlete.
Concussion? Yes
Neck injury? Yes
Busted ligaments and bones ? Yes
Bloodied ? Often
Never once a horror. All just part of the fun.
Play golf if you can’t handle tough competitions.
Sit in an air conditioned office if you can’t handle the marines.
Life has suffering. I embrace suffering. It’s part of life.
Try stop being disappointed in how others choose to live their lives.
You seem to think everyone should think like you do, and if they don’t you will be offended.
Respect those you disagree with.
It will change your life for the better.
"Play golf if you can’t handle tough competitions."
Golf is tougher than it looks. My Dad was a prolific golfer for a long time. In later years he developed very painful muscle tear problems, and also multiple bouts of skin cancer, which the doctor told him was likely from playing too much golf.
Mental toughness as well. I recall reading something Lee Trevino once said. I think he was going into the final round of a big tourney, and he was right up there with the leaders. A reporter asked him if he felt a lot of pressure going into this final round. Trevino replied (close paraphrase) "Pressure nah, pressure is when you're putting for $20, and you've only got $5 in your pocket."
Golf is one of the biggest player wagering games out there, with hustlers galore, etc. The hustler may have around the same handicap as another player, but he has the ability to stay cool under pressure. Makes those key putts when he needs to, and takes home the money off the players who usually choke.
First of all, my post was about the people who didn't donate to Eric's family after he lost his life, Eric was part of our community and one of the nicest people you'll ever meet and I thought it was pretty rotten of people to snub his family that way. Second of all, you want to talk about how you embrace suffering, have you ever been homeless for four years and had to eat out of a dumpster? Sleep in the woods in a tent in the dead of winter for Four years? Gone into cardiac arrest and had to be revived? Because I have, and it wasn't something I embraced. It was something I went through because of certain circumstances but I made it through and got back on my feet, met a woman and live in a trailer, we're not the richest people but we are blessed to have enough and it certainly beats living in the woods. I don't talk about this stuff because it's embarrassing, but I went through it, and I suffered like hell, and I would never want to go through it again. So stop talking about how you embrace suffering, because you don't know what it means to really suffer. As far as respecting people's opinions, I do. If I jumped in everyone's face every time they said something I didn't agree with I would stay angry 24/7, sometimes certain things I have to speak out about because they get to me, like your beloved thread dedicated to a double murderer, or horse racing. And for God's sake, stop comparing horse racing to other sports, horses don't have a choice to participate like humans do, if they did I'm pretty sure a lot of them would say, no thanks, I don't want to risk breaking my leg in half and being put down on the spot. A lot of them probably would rather die in the wild, I know I would rather die free than die at some track with some jerk on my back whipping me and a bunch of degenerate gamblers with hot dogs and beer and stupid looking hats screaming at me to make them some money.
That’s fair, but I hope you understand that there is at least one here, and perhaps more, who have donated more money their entire life then your total net worth, who only choose to donate to specific charities as a rule.
Accept others for how they choose to live their lives.
Your suffering is nothing compared to mine. I lost everything near and dear to me in life once, nearly died, and am still struggling.
The things you say are just mind boggling.
DD-
Did you ever face possible death due to health reasons? Knowing you couldn’t be here to care for your family ?
Did you lose 3 years of your life due to health reasons? Stuck in a house ?
A rare disease crushed a hard working man.
Did you ever almost lose your family and career from a false accusation?
Did your brothers ever leave you because of a false accusation?
Ever get interrogated by police over something you never did ?
I can go on and on but it’s too personal.
Horses have no choice in racing.
Neither do young children getting in a car, and more kids die in cars then horses do in racing. Life is dangerous.
My net worth? You can't put a price tag on human life. And as far as donating goes, if people can't kick in a few dollars for a guy like Eric, who was an absolute kind soul, then the hell with them. I've lost people too pal, five in the past seven years, including my father, who was my best friend in life, so don't try to lecture me on heartbreak. You know, when I first joined the forum I didn't really speak my mind about things, but I started to and maybe that was a mistake. It's obvious you all don't want me here because I speak my mind. It's been a fun five years, and I wish all of you nothing but the best.
$2,000 was given to the Mario Lemieux foundation in August for kids with cancer. Something Eric would love and applaud.
Yet you have the nerve to judge others. Unbelievable.
So how come war get "horrors" Mr. Marine? Because people die in war? Ok got it we have a benchmark. How many horses were put down or died leading for the Kentucky derby?
If a dozen athletes died in the olmpyics it would be "horrors" of the olympics.
Sure, I wrestled and got a knee injury. That's sports people get hurt. But horse racing isnt sports, it's a massive money making complex.
We put people like Michael Vick in prison for his part in dog fighting, he killed so many dogs. Cock fighting is the same. We allow boxing because the fighters have a choice. Notice the clear legal divide we have created here? Blood sports that hurt animals are and should be illegal.
Horse racing is clearly a blood sport and some of us are willing to take a moral stand against something this unethical.
Others like the spectacle for some bizarre reason. 99% of the time DGAF about horses; triple crown? Everyone cares.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
Lot of horses perished in WW2. Horses were used extensively in areas where motor vehicles could not traverse.
The more you know…
Is it too late to put $20k on Mystik Dan?
Nice 18-1 hit.
Well done sir!!!
It appears some "all in" guys got caught with their pants down.
It was late and I was down a $100, had about $90 stack and was holding Q10, my buddy to the right pushed all in, I said screw it and followed then 3 others did the same, after all was said and done I caught a Queen on the turn and it held up, 1 guy was flushing and 2 other guys had Jacks!
Thanks Al!
SWEET SWEET!! Sometimes you gotta go with your gut. I wish I could have seen it play out.
A pic from my good fortune on the felt. I think I posted the straight flush b4 and I recall you had caught one too...what a rush when the queen fell for me!!! Major $$$
I added 3 pics from my Australia cruise...I don't know why, they were just next to the straight flush pic. Anyway, that's a view of the Sydney Opera house, downtown Sydney, and the famous bridge where they shoot off a massive fireworks display on NY's Eve. People actually pay to walk over that thing. IF you can...go see downunder and include NZ...awzzzzzum. Some kinda fine ladies!!!
Awesome Al
Looking at that Straight Flush I bet people who are not card players cannot grasp how difficult that hand is to get!!!
From the movie, The Cincinnati Kid: about a high stakes poker game
"That's what it's all about, making the wrong move at the right time"
"You're good kid,but as long as I'm around your're second best".
Steve McQueen was so rattled after that, he couldn't even beat the young boy for a dime coin toss. LOL
I got curious, the odds are 0.0213 to make the gut shot on the river.
I got so excited when it hit, I went all in, nobody called me. I obviously won the pot, but had I just caught my breath, I couldh've wiped out 3 other players and rocked the room.
Take care.
Your odds are a little bit off, but 1 outcome is always a long-shot so it doesn't matter. It wasn't a great board for big bets. If someone had the A-high flush and you were both check-fishing... a better board where someone hits a FH on the river could get a push.
What were the blinds?
Helluva hand. 👍
From your comment "Major $$$" seems like you made a very nice score.
It's funny though with poker, sometimes you can have too much hand. On this one free to play website I enjoy, the game is taken very seriously. In this one hand, I had the nut boat, second nut hand if he had quads, going into the river, and I knew the way the opponent was playing it, he likely had the second boat. Anyway, the river is a king which gave me quads. It was exactly the card I didn't want to see because there were two kings on the board before that, and this made it three kings on the board. I of course had a pocket king. I had position, and so the opponent had to act first and he checked. Without that dam fourth king, IE too much hand, I'm sure he would have shoved and I would have snap called and taken his stack. I knew he wasn't going to call my shove after he checked, so I made around a pot size bet just to grab at least some of his chips. He's a good player, and he knew I likely had quads, or at least a better boat, and thus he made the right decision and folded.
That straight flush you hit was well hidden though, which was great. If the opponent has the ace flush, he's getting felted because he simply can't fold an ace flush there. Other hands that would be a tough fold are a JKos gives him a straight, always possible trips, etc. Very tough fold even though those other hands with that board are only bluff catchers. Sometimes ya just go broke and not much ya can do about it, because you cannot play scared poker and win in the long run.
I play at the local Elk's it's a small cash buy in. We all start with $5k in chips and allow rebuys up to the 4th or 5th hand. There is no way to play much strategy here, they drink so much beer, I don't know how many don't get dui tix going home. I'm talkin' by the pail full, which is 6 beers per. Blinds start at $100-$200 and as it nears the end, I've seen it go to $6k to $12k...keeping in mind these are chips, not a cash game. Obviously it bites into your stack quickly.
When I wrote "major $$$", I was thinking of having upwards of $40-$60k in chips. The most I've ever won was a little over $250+/-, which is close to the average win. I can read a few guys, but as the night wears on, and the beer and Jack kick in, things get pretty loose. It's mostly a social event, certainly not any big $$ involved. There are private games where they play cash, though I've never played there, I'm told it can get pretty serious.
I don't think I could handle a real cash TexasHoldem game, blackjack is my thing!