Interesting thread. In some ways the focus of the discussion always turns to whether a QB is worthy of the HOF. And in the process, stats and more stats and invented stats to confirm whether those status are worthy stats of the HOF. Eli Manning will get it someday and good for him... as he likely deserves it. But deserves is open to interpretation... and so much is left out in the analysis. Sadly his dad, Archie Manning, was probably the better athlete, the better and more EXCITING QB to watch and played for a team that just would not produce an opportunity to even be considered for the HOF.
But that is how it is... greatness is a misunderstood term that has a way of remaining out of the limelight and underneath the shadows whereby it is simply not recognized for what it is.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
As said before hell get in he just shouldnt Too many voters and fans simply judge QBs by rings. If Eli had done everything the exact same with a different last name and the Giants lost both SBs very few would be arguing for him.
4 seasons in the top 10 of QBR never once top 5, 1 season in the top 10 of passer rating never once top 5. He was never considered elite amongst his peers other than by Giants fans and people that use rings as the judgement.
Hes like the Harold Baines of the NFL with a better last name. He accumulated stats from a long career but was never in the conversation of being the best during his career.
The really interesting part is the number of people that will say Eli should be in but that Rivers and Stafford dont belong even though both have/were better
@Basebal21 said:
As said before hell get in he just shouldnt Too many voters and fans simply judge QBs by rings. If Eli had done everything the exact same with a different last name and the Giants lost both SBs very few would be arguing for him.
4 seasons in the top 10 of QBR never once top 5, 1 season in the top 10 of passer rating never once top 5. He was never considered elite amongst his peers other than by Giants fans and people that use rings as the judgement.
Hes like the Harold Baines of the NFL with a better last name. He accumulated stats from a long career but was never in the conversation of being the best during his career.
The really interesting part is the number of people that will say Eli should be in but that Rivers and Stafford dont belong even though both have/were better
I have said this before: Rivers was drafted by the Giants, since you’ll recall Manning went to San Diego at 1 overall, and Big Ben fell to the Steelers. Allegedly, before the trade deal was reached, the Giants were ready to take Ben at 3.
And, I still think whomever ended in NY or Pit was winning and whomever ended up in SD was out of luck.
The Giants basically gave up Philip Rivers, somebody else very good and Shawn Merriman for Eli Manning, as it turned out.
I welcome all the perspective - Eli was always a divisive figure but I could make a strong argument that no player ever had more pressure on them in league history. Especially going into year four but in general.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
I don’t really think there is any set criteria that sets an entrance threshold. The voting is careless. I get the sharing opinions but when you’re beating the same sad point into the ground with your head over and over and over. For all we know it’s all about who has them thiccc thighs.
@Basebal21 said:
As said before hell get in he just shouldnt Too many voters and fans simply judge QBs by rings. If Eli had done everything the exact same with a different last name and the Giants lost both SBs very few would be arguing for him.
4 seasons in the top 10 of QBR never once top 5, 1 season in the top 10 of passer rating never once top 5. He was never considered elite amongst his peers other than by Giants fans and people that use rings as the judgement.
Hes like the Harold Baines of the NFL with a better last name. He accumulated stats from a long career but was never in the conversation of being the best during his career.
The really interesting part is the number of people that will say Eli should be in but that Rivers and Stafford dont belong even though both have/were better
I have said this before: Rivers was drafted by the Giants, since you’ll recall Manning went to San Diego at 1 overall, and Big Ben fell to the Steelers. Allegedly, before the trade deal was reached, the Giants were ready to take Ben at 3.
And, I still think whomever ended in NY or Pit was winning and whomever ended up in SD was out of luck.
The Giants basically gave up Philip Rivers, somebody else very good and Shawn Merriman for Eli Manning, as it turned out.
I welcome all the perspective - Eli was always a divisive figure but I could make a strong argument that no player ever had more pressure on them in league history. Especially going into year four but in general.
I completely agree whoever went to the Giants or Steelers were in a much better spot. Could mix and match those 3 with the three different teams and the Giants probably win more SBs and the Chargers still have none and probably miss the playoffs a lot of those years especially since the Chargers won that trade and still found a way to do Charger things.
Eli had a couple bad years but was generally good just not elite. HOFers for me should be in the elite talk against their peers at least for a couple years. Eli was never really in that top 5 talk other than from rings. I can see the argument for being solid playing a long time but where should the line be drawn in that case? Are we just going to be electing 1/3rd of the QBs where its more of the hall of good like baseballs is turning into?
In baseball, I can see it but I don’t think you can really be a compiler in football. It’s too easy to get hurt. Personally, I have always believed an athletes best ability their availability.
Football is incredibly brutal and it seems like the ability to be out there every Sunday is being cast aside as being pretty much meaningless.
I wonder how many out there wish their own current guy possessed that trait. I know I wish Daniel Jones could stay out there every Sunday.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
In baseball, I can see it but I don’t think you can really be a compiler in football. It’s too easy to get hurt. Personally, I have always believed an athletes best ability their availability.
Football is incredibly brutal and it seems like the ability to be out there every Sunday is being cast aside as being pretty much meaningless.
I wonder how many out there wish their own current guy possessed that trait. I know I wish Daniel Jones could stay out there every Sunday.
What would you consider the cut off for QBs against tier peers? Eli will get in its just whether or not he should.
Brady, Rivers, Big Ben, Brees, were all better. Petyon has a big overlap career wise and Rodgers and Stafford are still playing that also overlapped a lot with Eli.
In terms of deserving how many QBs of an era should really be there
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
In baseball, I can see it but I don’t think you can really be a compiler in football. It’s too easy to get hurt. Personally, I have always believed an athletes best ability their availability.
Football is incredibly brutal and it seems like the ability to be out there every Sunday is being cast aside as being pretty much meaningless.
I wonder how many out there wish their own current guy possessed that trait. I know I wish Daniel Jones could stay out there every Sunday.
What would you consider the cut off for QBs against tier peers? Eli will get in its just whether or not he should.
Brady, Rivers, Big Ben, Brees, were all better. Petyon has a big overlap career wise and Rodgers and Stafford are still playing that also overlapped a lot with Eli.
In terms of deserving how many QBs of an era should really be there
I personally don’t see a need to cap it. There’s significantly more teams now than ever before, too, which for me by definition, creates more room for players. Your above list looks like a group of guys who all belong, to me.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Plus, so many people made up there minds on Eli before he ever even set foot on the field. The name, the older brother, the number one pick, the draft day face, the benching and moving on from a Kurt Warner who was having a pretty good season.
Regardless, I’ll go back to this:
A quarterback who is 8th all time in passing yards, 8th all time in passing TDs and has two rings is - and deserves to be - in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Plus, so many people made up there minds on Eli before he ever even set foot on the field. The name, the older brother, the number one pick, the draft day face, the benching and moving on from a Kurt Warner who was having a pretty good season.
Regardless, I’ll go back to this:
A quarterback who is 8th all time in passing yards, 8th all time in passing TDs and has two rings is - and deserves to be - in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Hes 10th right now for both and Stafford should pass him in both this year if he stays healthy. Russel Wilson is only 32 behind him in TDs and has a chance to pass him for TDs. Matt Ryan is ahead of Eli which would make him another HOFer which for some reason seems weird to type but is another guy that was better than him as his peer.
I agree there shouldnt be a hard cut off, but it also shouldnt just be 1/3rd of the league for that position either. There should be some line of being the best against your peers
The passing records really only Marino and Fouts have held up for decades. 10 years from now the top 10 will likely look very different again. Theres a number of QBs currently playing that will crack that if they stay healthy.
There were definitely high hopes for Eli after being the QB for Ole Miss and getting them their first 10 win season and major bowl game win in like 30 years, but he was what like the 10th best QB against his peers
Comments
Interesting thread. In some ways the focus of the discussion always turns to whether a QB is worthy of the HOF. And in the process, stats and more stats and invented stats to confirm whether those status are worthy stats of the HOF. Eli Manning will get it someday and good for him... as he likely deserves it. But deserves is open to interpretation... and so much is left out in the analysis. Sadly his dad, Archie Manning, was probably the better athlete, the better and more EXCITING QB to watch and played for a team that just would not produce an opportunity to even be considered for the HOF.
But that is how it is... greatness is a misunderstood term that has a way of remaining out of the limelight and underneath the shadows whereby it is simply not recognized for what it is.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
As said before hell get in he just shouldnt Too many voters and fans simply judge QBs by rings. If Eli had done everything the exact same with a different last name and the Giants lost both SBs very few would be arguing for him.
4 seasons in the top 10 of QBR never once top 5, 1 season in the top 10 of passer rating never once top 5. He was never considered elite amongst his peers other than by Giants fans and people that use rings as the judgement.
Hes like the Harold Baines of the NFL with a better last name. He accumulated stats from a long career but was never in the conversation of being the best during his career.
The really interesting part is the number of people that will say Eli should be in but that Rivers and Stafford dont belong even though both have/were better
I have said this before: Rivers was drafted by the Giants, since you’ll recall Manning went to San Diego at 1 overall, and Big Ben fell to the Steelers. Allegedly, before the trade deal was reached, the Giants were ready to take Ben at 3.
And, I still think whomever ended in NY or Pit was winning and whomever ended up in SD was out of luck.
The Giants basically gave up Philip Rivers, somebody else very good and Shawn Merriman for Eli Manning, as it turned out.
I welcome all the perspective - Eli was always a divisive figure but I could make a strong argument that no player ever had more pressure on them in league history. Especially going into year four but in general.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I don’t really think there is any set criteria that sets an entrance threshold. The voting is careless. I get the sharing opinions but when you’re beating the same sad point into the ground with your head over and over and over. For all we know it’s all about who has them thiccc thighs.
I completely agree whoever went to the Giants or Steelers were in a much better spot. Could mix and match those 3 with the three different teams and the Giants probably win more SBs and the Chargers still have none and probably miss the playoffs a lot of those years especially since the Chargers won that trade and still found a way to do Charger things.
Eli had a couple bad years but was generally good just not elite. HOFers for me should be in the elite talk against their peers at least for a couple years. Eli was never really in that top 5 talk other than from rings. I can see the argument for being solid playing a long time but where should the line be drawn in that case? Are we just going to be electing 1/3rd of the QBs where its more of the hall of good like baseballs is turning into?
In baseball, I can see it but I don’t think you can really be a compiler in football. It’s too easy to get hurt. Personally, I have always believed an athletes best ability their availability.
Football is incredibly brutal and it seems like the ability to be out there every Sunday is being cast aside as being pretty much meaningless.
I wonder how many out there wish their own current guy possessed that trait. I know I wish Daniel Jones could stay out there every Sunday.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
What would you consider the cut off for QBs against tier peers? Eli will get in its just whether or not he should.
Brady, Rivers, Big Ben, Brees, were all better. Petyon has a big overlap career wise and Rodgers and Stafford are still playing that also overlapped a lot with Eli.
In terms of deserving how many QBs of an era should really be there
I personally don’t see a need to cap it. There’s significantly more teams now than ever before, too, which for me by definition, creates more room for players. Your above list looks like a group of guys who all belong, to me.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Plus, so many people made up there minds on Eli before he ever even set foot on the field. The name, the older brother, the number one pick, the draft day face, the benching and moving on from a Kurt Warner who was having a pretty good season.
Regardless, I’ll go back to this:
A quarterback who is 8th all time in passing yards, 8th all time in passing TDs and has two rings is - and deserves to be - in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Hes 10th right now for both and Stafford should pass him in both this year if he stays healthy. Russel Wilson is only 32 behind him in TDs and has a chance to pass him for TDs. Matt Ryan is ahead of Eli which would make him another HOFer which for some reason seems weird to type but is another guy that was better than him as his peer.
I agree there shouldnt be a hard cut off, but it also shouldnt just be 1/3rd of the league for that position either. There should be some line of being the best against your peers
The passing records really only Marino and Fouts have held up for decades. 10 years from now the top 10 will likely look very different again. Theres a number of QBs currently playing that will crack that if they stay healthy.
There were definitely high hopes for Eli after being the QB for Ole Miss and getting them their first 10 win season and major bowl game win in like 30 years, but he was what like the 10th best QB against his peers