Here We Go Again

Copperindian

Just completed yet another request to Registry to release a coin to my inventory the previous owner didn’t bother to delete. It seems to me this is happening with increasing frequency. Yes, it eventually gets placed in my inventory, but the time wasted to make this happen just shouldn’t be. I’ll acknowledge there are sometimes extenuating circumstances, but most frequently it’s uncaring, selfish, rude sellers that are guilty of this. I’ll say again what others have before me: Registry, enforce your policy! What would happen if no one released a sold coin? Answer: Registry would be far busier than they already are!

lablover

@rnkmyer1 said:
Just completed yet another request to Registry to release a coin to my inventory the previous owner didn’t bother to delete. It seems to me this is happening with increasing frequency. Yes, it eventually gets placed in my inventory, but the time wasted to make this happen just shouldn’t be. I’ll acknowledge there are sometimes extenuating circumstances, but most frequently it’s uncaring, selfish, rude sellers that are guilty of this. I’ll say again what others have before me: Registry, enforce your policy! What would happen if no one released a sold coin? Answer: Registry would be far busier than they already are!

I feel your pain as this has happened to me multiple, However, blame the prior coin owner, not the Registry folks. Without some proof the coin is now in another's possession Registry has no obligation to release. But what is the Registry 'policy' to enforce?

Copperindian

I’m not blaming Registry. I do blame the previous owner. I merely said “what would they do if no one released their coins?” Answer is they would be overwhelmed.
This is not fair to buyers nor sellers that do release their sold coins. Violators (those that don’t release their sold coins) are subject to suspension.

alaura22

I believe that the registry has the right to retire their set. It happened when I had to go though the process to register a coin. I then filled out the form and waited the 3 days, then I just took pics of the coin and sent them in. PCGS registry then, in a few hours released the coin for me to add.
Now here's the kicker, a day later I received an email from the former owner of the coin thanking me for getting his set retired!!! I responded to him saying that if he would just have released the coin he wouldn't have had this problem. The audacity, him trying to blame me, and might I add, a well known registry owner with many many sets.
I hope that they would do that more to these people that think they are above everybody else.
Good luck

lablover

@rnkmyer1 said:
I’m not blaming Registry. I do blame the previous owner. I merely said “what would they do if no one released their coins?” Answer is they would be overwhelmed.
This is not fair to buyers nor sellers that do release their sold coins. Violators (those that don’t release their sold coins) are subject to suspension.

Right on...

Connecticoin

I get those requests now and then but they come to my e-mail and I hop on them right away.

Copperindian

Just an update: Registry did handle my request expeditiously, so I now “officially” own the coin. Props to them.

Copperindian

@alaura22: I’m so glad for your outcome above. Maybe if that happened with more frequency, these “careless” sellers would take notice!

skamieniecki

I understand it is annoying but it really doesn't seem to be an issue. Whenever I buy a coin on-line I request that the seller release the coin from their inventory. Many times the seller is the third or fourth owner and they never asked for release when they purchased it. Worst case scenario is you take a picture of both sides of the slab, send it to PCGS and a day or so later it is released. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Copperindian

@skamieniecki: you’re correct. But the issue is sellers that don’t release coins they sell from their inventory. Your example of 3rd or 4th seller does happen, but that’s the exception rather than the rule. It’s a bit of a burden to take time dated pics after waiting 3 days for a seller that still doesn’t release the coin. While Registry is pretty good at responding, sometimes it’s another 2-3 days before they take care of it. They’re busy with a lot of members - I get that. I (& others) think if they enforced the guidelines, this issue would be far less of the hassle it currently is. The example described above by alaura22 happens far too infrequently.

Tom147

@rnkmyer1 said:
This is not fair to buyers nor sellers that do release their sold coins. Violators (those that don’t release their sold coins) are subject to suspension.

However. it never happens. I don't have an exact count but I'm guessing I've had to do the request, wait 3 business days, take a dated picture, send it in, then make a call to get it released. I will say our hosts have been very quick to release once I've jumped through all the hoops;

Tom147

I just reread my posts. Meant to say close to 100 times over the last 5 years I've had to work thru the whole process. Just found I requested a release on a high grade Kennedy half over two weeks ago and never followed up. Looks like Monday a.m. ( if I'm back in my home state by then ) I'll be on the phone with our hosts

winesteven

Here’s how this situation sums up:

1. Yes, the newly purchased coin eventually gets into our inventory, but instead of taking the proper three seconds of effort of just entering the cert number to “Add Inventory” and have the pleasure of seeing OUR coin added to our sets, we have to wait three business days, then take the time to take two “Ransom” slab photos (to prove it’s a current photo, I include a newspaper showing the date with the slab), then take the time to upload the photos to my computer, then take the time to crop the photos, then take the time to upload the photos to PCGS Set Registry via their tool, then wait another day or so to finally have that pleasure of seeing the coin in our set(s)!
2. Yes, in the vast majority of cases, the time we had to waste is due entirely to the selfishness and inconsiderate behavior of the consignor of the coin! (Should I say how I really feel, lol)? Just tonight a coin I consigned to GC sold. Since I show consideration to my fellow collectors, once I saw that GC safely received the coin about three weeks ago, at that time I went to my Inventory, and moved the coin from “Active” to “Sold”. I listed GC as the “Buyer”, entered 4/14/2024 as the date sold, but left the sale price blank. Now that it’s been sold, when I get a chance, I’ll enter the net price sold. This way, if the buyer, excited to now own this lovely coin chooses to immediately add this coin to his/her set(s), they will have success. Another slight advantage of not being a selfish seller, is there’s a possibility there are some potential buyers who in searching for coins they need will check the cert in the PCS tool, and if they see it’s still tied up in someone’s inventory, may decide to not bother bidding/chasing. For coins I sell, I want every bidder possible!
3. As mentioned, I believe part of the problem lies with PCGS Set Registry too, as their official policy is when this situation of non removal ends up being resolved by the buyer having uploaded photos, not only does PCGS release the coin to the buyer, but they’re also EXPECTED to REMOVE EVERY coin from that selfish seller’s set if that set is at least 90% complete! It sounds like in the one case of @alaura22 that’s exactly what they did. Kudos to Set Registry! But my sense is that proper action of deterrence is not taken every appropriate time. I’m absolutely convinced that if this action were indeed taken every appropriate time by Set Registry, when the selfish collector’s see they now have to take THEIR time to re-enter EVERY coin in that set that they still actually own, the lesson will be learned to STOP BEING SELFISH!

Steve

Copperindian

Steve - excellent summary of this situation above. Nailed it & thanks for the post!

Copperindian

Round & round I go. In the midst of trying to get yet another coin released to my registry. In this case, the “selfish” seller submitted the coin to GC for auction. It was then he should have released the coin. I won the coin in the auction & have to wait the 3 biz days, then supply my time date stamped pics to get the coin I won included in my set. I’m guessing this seller is either 1) clueless; 2) selfish & uncaring; or 3) waiting for GC to pay him first. Any/all of the 3 are NG.

alaura22

@rnkmyer1
I believe if there are no ramifications the selfish sellers will just let you do all the work. If there is no downside they get their kicks just having you wait. PCGS has already told me that they don't want to do anything to them as they do not want to upset anybody. When they figure out how much time it is coasting them to do this maybe, just maybe they will change there minds, I hope so. In the meantime we will just have to put up with them

Copperindian

@alaura22: thanks Mike. I know we’re in 100% agreement on this sore subject! I’ll acknowledge registry doesn’t want to upset anyone, but they’re not considering that members like us might be upset by their lack of enforcement?
Curious question: have you ever contacted the offending seller directly, asking them to remove the coin, or why they’re not removing it? I haven’t, guessing it’s somewhere in the rules that we’re not supposed to do that.

alaura22

Ha, Funny you asked
How about this
Seller didn't remove the coin so I did the 3 day wait and then sent in pics of the coin, the next day the coin was available to add
The next day I get an email from the the guy that owner the coin thanking me for having his sets retired because he didn't remove the coin! And also warned me that he would return the favor if he got the chance.
Can you believe it, AND, A well known name in the registries.................
I then contacted him and told him that he should have removed the coin when asked to and not to blame me for his error, never heard back from him..............
So, sometimes they do enforce it and in this case, a well know name, I'm glad that they did.

winesteven

I’ve done a combination of two things when I see a newly purchased coin that cannot be added to my Registry:

1. When I plug in the cert number using the PCGS “Verify” tool, every once in awhile it will show the set name of the “current” Registry owner, AND that owner allows himself to be contacted. I then politely message that seller, letting them know I just bought that coin, and asking as a courtesy if they can remove it from their set so I don’t have to wait the three business days. For the few times this has happened, I seem to recall excellent success.
2. When I buy a coin from a dealer, and cannot add it, I then call the dealer back, asking as a courtesy if they can contact their consignor and have that person remove the coin from their set. Mixed success in the end result. Most of the dealers are willing if they know the seller. Sometimes they don’t have the information, as the coin may have changed hands a couple of times.

What has never worked for me is asking any of the auction houses to contact the consignor. Ha!

Steve

Tom147

It's been a pat peeve of mine for several years now. Our hosts have it in the rules. Either enforce the rules, or remove the damn rule.

Copperindian

It gets worse if that’s even possible. I put in to add a new purchase to my Registry set on Tuesday. Of course, after waiting the required three biz days with the previous owner ignoring my request, I furnished the required time/date pics obv & rev to Registry. Day one there goes by with nothing happening. It will be Monday the earliest before this coin gets added to my set(s). If then; we’ll see. I’ll bet against it.
Understaffed or not, it’s easy to add a coin to the new owner’s set(s), especially with the required photo evidence. I’ll predict it will take another try at least for this coin to be added. All this added legwork shouldn’t be happening. This continues to be an ongoing issue with no resolution in sight.

winesteven

We agree this bad situation could have some improvement if PCGS would just enforce their own rules!

When PCGS becomes aware that a coin is owned by the submitter, backed up by time dated photos, and the prior owner ignored the request, then for any sets that the selfish prior owner has that coin in, and that set has over 90% completion, then ALL of that selfish collectors coins in those sets should be released!

If it turns out that that some/most of those deleted coins actually still belong to that selfish collector, “oh well”!!! That selfish collector will now have to take his or her time to relist every single coin they actually still own that belongs in those sets!

After having had to take the time to re-enter those coins to that person’s ownership and then separately to his sets, I’ll bet that collector will be less selfish going forward when they sell a coin registered to them!!!

Steve

Copperindian

@winesteven:
Steve - nice idea but I think a little impractical given the lack of personnel right now in Registry. There’s MANY selfish collectors that don’t bother releasing their sold coins. I think this would be a logistical nightmare as much as a potential solution. Just think of all the extra work this already thin department would have to handle. I get where you’re coming from though!
Ken

winesteven

Hey, I didn’t say it’s likely to happen! I said this is PCGS’s rule, and if they’d only enforce their rules, the rest of us would have fewer problems. Besides, it only takes a few seconds for them to zap at one time all of the coins in a Registry set!

Steve

Copperindian

@winesteven said:
Hey, I didn’t say it’s likely to happen! I said this is PCGS’s rule, and if they’d only enforce their rules, the rest of us would have fewer problems. Besides, it only takes a few seconds for them to zap at one time all of the coins in a Registry set!

Steve

Sure & it’s even easier for them to release a coin when provided with the pics they require. Even that seems to be a problem.
Ken

Martin

I’m telling you. I think the fat lady is warming up. The party is over

Martin

Copperindian

@Martin said:
I’m telling you. I think the fat lady is warming up. The party is over

Martin

Hey Martin, you may be onto something! They are doing less than before these days & it already wasn’t good. But, they actually did release the coin without me asking them to do it again.
Ken

Copperindian

Again & again & again! Now I’m dealing with yet another one. This time just might be the worst of all. As near as I can tell, I’m the third buyer SINCE the pseudo “owner” had(s) it in his Registry. How do I know that? One, there’s me. Two, the seller to me is not in Registry & wasn’t even aware of this. Three, the guy he bought it from also was not a Registry participant. He knows that as it’s a close friend of his. Might there be even more? Possible, but I don’t know that - I just can confirm 3. Making it even worse, this “owner” avoided the Registry request to release. Not only that, I politely messaged him asking him to release it as it involves a trade of the coin that’s in my set. Totally ignored me. Now, I have to submit time/date stamped pics to Registry & wait 3 biz days. Not happy with this unnecessary “BS”!

Update: 11/13 - Registry finally released the coin to my set(s). I started this process on 11/5 - too much time needed for what should be a simple process! NG

lermish

@Copperindian said:
Again & again & again! Now I’m dealing with yet another one. This time just might be the worst of all. As near as I can tell, I’m the third buyer SINCE the pseudo “owner” had(s) it in his Registry. How do I know that? One, there’s me. Two, the seller to me is not in Registry & wasn’t even aware of this. Three, the guy he bought it from also was not a Registry participant. He knows that as it’s a close friend of his. Might there be even more? Possible, but I don’t know that - I just can confirm 3. Making it even worse, this “owner” avoided the Registry request to release. Not only that, I politely messaged him asking him to release it as it involves a trade of the coin that’s in my set. Totally ignored me. Now, I have to submit time/date stamped pics to Registry & wait 3 biz days. Not happy with this unnecessary “BS”!

I've got a fun one that came up yesterday. Little bit long with not much payoff but somewhat interesting for PCGS & SetReg nerds .

@abbyme24 and I have been working with PCGS to properly recognize a Koban type that they recently split into two varieties, Early & Late. The existing PCGS# and all existing coins were changed to Late, regardless of whether that was accurate or not, and a new PCGS# was created for Early. At some point while verifying the coin, they (it appears) did an audit and changed some large portion of already graded coins from Late to Early. (see before and after screenshots below).

After that long preamble, the upshot is that all of the existing certs that were switched were booted from the registry set. @Stork had the number one set and has been bumped to number four. I'm very confident that he was not notified in any fashion and I'm sure none of the other affected coin owners were either. (Although @Stork was getting bumped to #2 after I enter my new coin regardless )

Before:

After:

Copperindian

@lermish: all of a sudden my issue seems small by comparison!

lermish

@Copperindian said:
@lermish: all of a sudden my issue seems small by comparison!

It's a shame that we have to deal with any of these. It seems that one full time dedicated employee (like Paulina was) and part time tech support could handle all of the issues. It's continuously disappointing that apparently that is too much to ask.

Catbert

Have to add that the problems described here, as frustrating as they are, pale in comparison to not fixing the CAC problem. There, I did a whining potential hijack of this thread. 😉😬🤯

islunder99

Let me share my experience. As a buyer, approx. every 3 months I need to go through the full process including attaching photo, though I never bother about newspaper or anything like that - photo has date and timestamp. Hardly can recall if any previous owner ever fixed my request directly without engaging PCGS reg.
As a seller, I have to admit my coins are marked as "for sell" until actually sold. I will move them to "sold" inventory sometimes in an hour or may be in 12 hours after the auction. Interestingly, very often I receive a removal request in a matter of minutes after a particular lot is sold. Ownership and possession are two different things. I suspect we all tend to add coins to the inventory straight upon payment, but PCGS requires collectors to have an item in physical possession, not like demonstrating a prove of payment or any other settlement paperwork.

Goldminers

I sold more than 250 coins at GC the past month and removed every one of them from my inventory before they were even listed.

I downloaded my PCGS inventory information using the export to csv function and converted the details into Excel to track sales for documentation.

It is really not that hard to do, and it does not cause anyone any future problems.

Copperindian

@Goldminers said:
I sold more than 250 coins at GC the past month and removed every one of them from my inventory before they were even listed.

I downloaded my PCGS inventory information using the export to csv function and converted the details into Excel to track sales for documentation.

It is really not that hard to do, and it does not cause anyone any future problems.

You handle this like I do - the way it should be. I’m afraid we’re in the minority these days & that’s unfortunate!

Copperindian

@lermish said:

@Copperindian said:
@lermish: all of a sudden my issue seems small by comparison!

It's a shame that we have to deal with any of these. It seems that one full time dedicated employee (like Paulina was) and part time tech support could handle all of the issues. It's continuously disappointing that apparently that is too much to ask.

Absolutely agree! And, I miss Paulina as much as you do; have to think we’re not alone!

Copperindian

@islunder99: the real problem is sellers not releasing coins they’ve sold - AT ALL! It takes a request through Registry, waiting 3 biz days, then having to take time/date stamped pics of the coin you bought, sending them to Registry, then sometimes waiting another day or two for them to get around to it. Shouldn’t be.
Your scenario of buyers not waiting to receive coins they’ve bought & requesting to add the coin(s) to their inventory is minor, if an issue at all. Please read Goldminers’ post above - he handles sales like it should be done.

winesteven

@islunder99 said:
Let me share my experience. As a buyer, approx. every 3 months I need to go through the full process including attaching photo, though I never bother about newspaper or anything like that - photo has date and timestamp. Hardly can recall if any previous owner ever fixed my request directly without engaging PCGS reg.
As a seller, I have to admit my coins are marked as "for sell" until actually sold. I will move them to "sold" inventory sometimes in an hour or may be in 12 hours after the auction. Interestingly, very often I receive a removal request in a matter of minutes after a particular lot is sold. Ownership and possession are two different things. I suspect we all tend to add coins to the inventory straight upon payment, but PCGS requires collectors to have an item in physical possession, not like demonstrating a prove of payment or any other settlement paperwork.

In theory you're correct, as you properly state the rules. However, many of us kids like the pleasure of adding the coin to our Registries once we know the coin is ours, and paid for.

Separately, @Copperindian , despite the length of this thread, I believe those of us that comply properly when our coins are sold are NOT in the minority. Rough guess for me is I have problems adding coins probably less than 25% of the time. Admittedly, we all feel that frustration, and as you know, I have been vocal (in writing, lol) on this thread. As I said a bit above in a reply, this problem WILL NOT IMPROVE if PCGS continues to NOT enforce THEIR rule, as I also described in my earlier reply.

Steve

Copperindian

Steve - cannot agree about “most”; you’re fortunate to only be @ 25% - I’m @ 50% +++. Maybe I’m buying from the “wrong” sellers!
Ken

winesteven

@Copperindian said:
Steve - cannot agree about “most”; you’re fortunate to only be @ 25% - I’m @ 50% +++. Maybe I’m buying from the “wrong” sellers!
Ken

Ha!

Have a nice weekend.

Steve

Copperindian

Thanks Steve - we will; road tripping to beautiful Reno NV!
Ken

winesteven

Safe and uneventful travels!

Steve

Tom147

I've been complaining to our hosts about this very problem since 2019. Had to do the whole request, wait 3 days, dated picture scenario for close to 100 coins. I usually follow up with a phone call as soon as I send the picture. Paulina was great in that within minutes of the call, the coin was available to add to my sets. I went thru the process about 3 weeks ago only for Paulina tell me she's no longer with the Registry. Working somewhere else at PCGS. I'm dreading the next time I call.

islunder99

Thanks for not blaming me too much ) Since we have to deal with this reg. removal problem anyway, suggest to save some time by uploading photo as is, i.e. without crop, newspaper etc. - it works. Also curious if this issue is more important for modern US coinage collectors. i.e. adding a coin earlier might give an advantage? I'd say in a slowly moving muddy waters of world coins registries it hardly matters if I add a coin a week or month later (may be except June if the set is in the final stage). May be instead of pursuing pcgs to implement unpopular measures, worth to contact Raeleen to add a banner with reminder to sellers to remove their coins from reg. by the time the hummer falls?
Long Live GC! )

Copperindian

@islunder99: good post. Unfortunately, though, the auction houses expect sellers to take care of biz. This would be added work for them & they just won’t do it. My 2C: they shouldn’t. Sellers should release coins when they consign the coins to the auction house. There shouldn’t be a need to wait for the hammer to fall.
While this is a problem, my experience is there’s a greater problem with coins consigned for sale with dealers, including “VPD’s”. In some cases, there’s been several times where the coin has changed hands. If there’s buyers along the way don’t participate in Registry, this isn’t picked up until the latest buyer is one who does. I’m going through this situation now; I’m at least the third buyer (maybe more) & the “owner” is far removed. I’m finding out he doesn’t care either, so I have to go through hoops to get ownership. In these cases, the dealer/VPD doesn’t even know who this “owner” is. My last go around before this one, the “owner” was deceased, so it was hoop jumping time there too.
Finally @Tom147 makes a good point about Paulina in Registry. She ALWAYS took care of an issue. Now that she’s been reassigned to PSA, that “go-to” is gone. Too bad for us!

winesteven

+1

RonaldDay

@Copperindian said:
Just completed yet another request to Registry to release a coin to my inventory the previous owner didn’t bother to delete.

Some things to chew on:
1. The owner died and the coins are being auctioned off by an estate.
2. Some other event resulted in the coins being sent to an auction house/ebay.
3. The person forgot which of their coins was registered and doesn't participate in the registry any more sells their coins to a third party.
4. An active registrant sells the coin, but keeps it in their registry in the hope the person buying the coin doesn't participate.

There are plenty more possible reasons that a coin is registered to someone else and doesn't get released. It happens to me about 25% of the time or so...

Funny story. I opened my registry about 14 years ago, had a little over 100 coins registered. Stopped collecting for a while, moved, changed email addresses etc .... A year ago, when I started collecting again I couldn't log in to my old account, it was linked to an old email address and I couldn't remember the password. I opened a new account and had to go through the proceedure to re-register my OWN coins. After doing this a dozen times I emailed customer service. I explained that I was going to sell a bunch of those coins and if they didn't help me they would have a bunch of very unhappy people buying my old coins - that I could not de-register. Long story short it took about 2 weeks, but they transferred the old coins into my new account. I can't be the only one, and If I didn't start collecting again and just sold my coins ....

I think it is a good Idea for the registry to give a collector a warning or two if their coins are sold and they have not removed them from their registry, then just retire the account and de-register all their coins. That would have worked just fine in my case as I would have just re-registered the coins I wanted to keep and sold the rest without an issue.

They may not want to do that if, as I suspect, they have a lot of zombie accounts and would lose a substantial percentage of their active collections.

Copperindian

@RonaldDay: good post! I think your 1-4’s are exceptions rather than the rule, but they certainly do happen (JMO, #4 might happen more often than any of us realize; a point well made that didn’t occur to me).
Bottom line is if one wants to participate in Registry these occurrences come with the territory. Going in, few if any of us were aware of this. As @winesteven has often stated, Registry enforcement of their rules would improve the situation. I agree.

oldsmagnet

I've taken some heat on this forum in the past for this, but I'm still a strong believer that these multi-million dollar auction houses who boast about being the best of the best, getting 3-plus digit commissions off individual sales have no excuse to claim ignorance over the set registries. They're going to spend hundreds of dollars to research each coin's history and get plus perfect photography of it, yet they can't take five minutes to verify it's not tied to a registry set, and send off a removal request? That's blatant laziness as far as I'm concerned.

winesteven

@oldsmagnet said:
I've taken some heat on this forum in the past for this, but I'm still a strong believer that these multi-million dollar auction houses who boast about being the best of the best, getting 3-plus digit commissions off individual sales have no excuse to claim ignorance over the set registries. They're going to spend hundreds of dollars to research each coin's history and get plus perfect photography of it, yet they can't take five minutes to verify it's not tied to a registry set, and send off a removal request? That's blatant laziness as far as I'm concerned.

It's not laziness, it's a business decision, and i don't disagree with that decision. The fault lies with both the collector and with PCGS!

Separately, it sounds like you begrudge them making a profit for the service/product they provide. We live in a capitalist society, with free competition. If you don't like the profit/commission a company has chosen, we are all free to use the services/product of a competitor!

Steve

oldsmagnet

A business decision to not spend five minutes making sure someone else doesn't hold some kind of ownership claim on a piece of property that they're selling? That IS laziness. It's excusable for some average Joe inheriting his grandparent's collection and trying to get it to a better home, but for a company that lives, eats, and breathes coin sales, they have no excuse to claim they don't know anything about registries. As for finding auction competitors - I have no problem with them charging commissions, that's how they stay in business. I DO have problems with them charging commissions and not bothering to do a lick of due diligence to make sure what they're selling is 100% free and clear, not 95, not 98, 100 Percent. And yeah, as long as PCGS is on the ball, it only takes three days to clean it up from the buyer's end, but that's the contention that started this topic... and from my perspective, still sounds an awful lot like the auction company not giving a $*** about customer satisfaction.