The most interesting concept to me is the dichotomy of knowing enough about something to think you’re right but not knowing enough about something to know that you’re wrong.
I don’t know if he will pitch well in the majors but I think that he will. I do look forward to seeing him pitch against a MLB lineup.
His fastball moves a lot for how fast it is. He has an elite fastball, elite slider, good changup and kind of a show me curveball thats still pretty good he just never really uses it. Hed like to slow the rotation on his changeup a little bit but its still above average
@coolstanley said:
Have yet to lose a series. Historic day today for Mccutchen.
I'm not sure I'd call 300 Hrs historic with how the game is now. 11 active players have that or more and Rizzo is only 4 away from making that 12. Betts, Judge, Schwarber basically need 2 healthy seasons to reach that as well. Theres also the guys like Alonso, Devers, Tatis, Vlad Jr, Acuna etc that will get it if they stay healthy. Were probably going to see more guys in the next 15-20 years get there than the previous 100 years
@4Boston asks: Are the 11-5 Pittsburgh Pirates for real?
I replied in a different thread that it was way, way to early to get excited about MLB right now, wait till at least July/August. In the meantime, do you think the 12-5 Braves are for real or the 13-6 Yankees and Indians are for real??
Oh yeah, the Pirates are now 11-8 and headed to the inevitable basement where they feel so comfortable.
@Maywood said: @4Boston asks: Are the 11-5 Pittsburgh Pirates for real?
I replied in a different thread that it was way, way to early to get excited about MLB right now, wait till at least July/August. In the meantime, do you think the 12-5 Braves are for real or the 13-6 Yankees and Indians are for real??
Oh yeah, the Pirates are now 11-8 and headed to the inevitable basement where they feel so comfortable.
They are a real team. I've seen them firsthand.
I think it's never too early to get excited about baseball. A week ago I thought the Red Sox were going to win 2 World Series titles in 2024...
The Pirates are an exciting team and I wouldn't count them out of the division.
Now that the Pirates can bring Skenes to the Majors without incurring a full year of service time I think we can put that argument to rest. @Basebal21 was wrong. Is that even possible?
@bgr said:
Now that the Pirates can bring Skenes to the Majors without incurring a full year of service time I think we can put that argument to rest. @Basebal21 was wrong. Is that even possible?
Skenes is getting frustrated with the organization pulling him after 3 innings every game
Its also not that simple anymore to manipulate the service time. Players that finish in the top 2 of rookie of the year (which he very likely would) get a full year of service awarded to them regardless of when they are called up. You cant just call someone up the next day anymore
You have to hold someone down long enough now where they wont get enough time to qualify or have such limited time the voters hold it against them. The Os already changed their mind and called up Jackson Holliday a week or two ago
If the Pirates were serious about competing they wouldnt be having him strike out everyone in AAA throwing 60 pitches a game before being pulled
At this point however, given the structure, if he was called up and he is awarded a year of service time based on his performance…. Well. That’s a win for everyone. Pirates especially. The owners just wanted, and got, the PPI. They want more bullets in the gun.
The pirates think their window starts in 2025. So you really think this is about control 5 vs 6 years?
I’m also sure he’s really frustrated with the team and that’s not just drama. Once we cleared 172 the incentive to keep him in the minors went poof.
Did they patch the hole in Holliday’s bat yet? This last bit is just a joke.
@bgr said:
At this point however, given the structure, if he was called up and he is awarded a year of service time based on his performance…. Well. That’s a win for everyone. Pirates especially. The owners just wanted, and got, the PPI. They want more bullets in the gun.
The pirates think their window starts in 2025. So you really think this is about control 5 vs 6 years?
I’m also sure he’s really frustrated with the team and that’s not just drama. Once we cleared 172 the incentive to keep him in the minors went poof.
Did they patch the hole in Holliday’s bat yet? This last bit is just a joke.
Him getting a full year of service and them missing the playoffs which they will would be a big L for the front office that they would have to answer to the cheap owner for. Financially having him start opening day would have been a massive success for them and probably broken some ratings records for them
Hes said and the manager has said that the orders are from the Pirates front office for his pitch counts which are ridiculously low. Pulling Skenes at 3 innings or 60 pitches every time is not a club that is acting like they have interest in calling him up unless they are somehow still in the race late
Theyre doing the same thing with their HS pick but that actually makes sense. He wont be in the majors this year or next and HS seasons are significantly shorter. Skenes was never abused at LSU but had a good work load of around 100 pitches a game for 120ish innings before going to the minors last year so its not like a HS kid coming off 60 innings or so going into pro ball.
Technically they could control him for about 13 years, it takes 6 years for minor league free agency if youre never called up so they can waste him in the minors for years if they want.
If anything theyre regressing him by keeping his starts so short. Unless theyre converting him to a closer he needs to be getting to at least 4/5 innings and 80ish pitches, not 3 innings or 60ish
He would have to pitch very well to get awarded a year of service at the point.
Plus they get picks. The service time manipulation argument is not making sense here. Unless you have some all knowing eye I’m baffled how you can see it that way.
Let’s see what happens when his pitch limit gets increased after his next start.
@Basebal21 said:
Id love to hear the explanation of him striking everyone out for 3 innings in the minors shortening his pitch counts being the best move.
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
Stretching. Not shortening. And whether you agree or not it’s the current conventional wisdom.
@Basebal21 said:
Id love to hear the explanation of him striking everyone out for 3 innings in the minors shortening his pitch counts being the best move.
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
Stretching. Not shortening. And whether you agree or not it’s the current conventional wisdom.
60 pitch 3 inning outings in AAA are not the conventional wisdom for a starter or even the current standards. Hes being trained to throw less not more
Then they bump it up. And so on. Thats the stretching part. The article I linked before was the pirates saying everything I was telling you from the start.
Skenes is exactly what his bio describes him as, a prospect. The trouble with all the hype about him is that the jump from NCAA to MLB is huge and talent isn't the most important aspect of things, although it is vitally important. The more important thing is coaching and development of players in the minor league system(s). Can the Pirates teach him a slider and change-up?? That's the key, because MLB hitters will catch up to a fastball, especially if it's flat.
I figure this guy is down in minors not because of anything discussed above, the organization knows enough to realize if he comes up now he'll get destroyed.
@bgr said:
Then they bump it up. And so on. Thats the stretching part. The article I linked before was the pirates saying everything I was telling you from the start.
This isn’t rocket surgery.
Youre right its not rocket science which is what I think you meant.
There is a pitcher Skenes that between LSU and the minor was throwing between 80-110ish pitches last year for over 130 innings.
So dominate and so polished he started the year in AAA where now hes throwing 3 innings or 60 pitches a start striking out over half the batters hes faced and putting up video game numbers while being frustrated his work load is so limited.
This isnt a HS player, this isnt a 16 year old international signing, this isnt a pitcher coming back from TJ surgery, this is a pitcher that already had basically the MLB workload that wasnt abused in college with absurd pitch counts like Rice used to do. Someone saying if they can teach him a slider is just silly when his fastball and slider are already rated elite.
He may not win a CY Young but he is without question one of the 5 best starters in the entire Pirates organization and theres no reason to waste him in AAA pitching 3 innings a start unless theyre trying to delay his service clock.
I meant rocket surgery. It’s a mash up. Rocket Science / Brain Surgery.
I would say “no one says he doesn’t have the stuff…” but I guess there’s 1 now. Anyways. Anyone who has seen him pitch knows he has 3+ pitches and those other 2 are not far behind.
It’s about getting him ready for his first mlb season. They’re doing it the same as just about every club in similar circumstances. And let’s not give Skenes the next 16 CY Young’s just yet. He’s no Ricky Vaughn.
Pirate fan here. Let’s just be honest - they could have a rotation of 5 hall of farmers and they still wouldn’t make the playoffs because they can’t hit to save their lives. Can’t win if you can’t score more than 2 per game (unless you have 5 prime Gibsons pitching complete games every time out). Doesn’t matter what they do with Skenes.
That pretty much sums it up. They dont believe they will make the playoffs or that Skenes would make the difference so hes in the minors being treated like someone rehabbing TJ surgery or a teenage international signing
The way they have been hitting, they might consider seeing if Jobu can help.
I still think 3rd, 4th, and 5th are pretty up for grabs in the NL Central, but 1st & 2nd are Milwaukee and Chicago in whatever order.
Milwaukee is going to need to add another starting pitcher unless Ashby can get back to form or Gasser comes back strong. I thought a guy like Cease would have been a good fit in Milwaukee. They might have one of the deepest bullpens in MLB, but it's already being tested and that is troubling.
@4Boston said:
Skenes is a man among boys at Indy AAA. When is he getting called up ?
They said that the goal was 85 pitches. He’s at what 60-65 in his last start? If they keep him down for more than 2 more AAA starts then I’m going to have to say Basebal21 was right here. Whether he knows or is just guessing the worst I have no idea.
I think we see him in MLB before the end of May. That would give him a shot at being able to finish the season strong.
@4Boston said:
Skenes is a man among boys at Indy AAA. When is he getting called up ?
They said that the goal was 85 pitches. He’s at what 60-65 in his last start? If they keep him down for more than 2 more AAA starts then I’m going to have to say Basebal21 was right here. Whether he knows or is just guessing the worst I have no idea.
I think we see him in MLB before the end of May. That would give him a shot at being able to finish the season strong.
The long history of the Organization doing it and even making the mistake of making it public by telling him no matter what he does in spring training he wont make the roster when other teams like the Padres with Tatis Jr give young stars a chance to earn a spot. Toronto was going to do it with Vlady JR but changed their mind a week or two into the season. For the Pirates you can go all the way back to guys like Andrew McCutchen who should have started the year on the roster. Granted in his day everyone did it, but they did it with Cole as well just to name some others.
This is just the first time that its so blatantly obvious between historical domination and absurdly low pitch counts that they dont have a reasonable excuse for it. Even if they call him up tomorrow theyve already wasted 4 starts and those crazy low pitch counts really arent good for someone that is expected to be called up as a starter. The last thing I want to see is some guy get hurt because theyve been throwing 60 pitches a start getting babied for a month or two and then come up and are expected to almost double their work load
Yeah but that’s just your own conjecture. If it’s not backed by data it’s just guessing. You get kicked out of the conference room taking like that. We will see.
You can certainly disagree, but youd be disagreeing with the players and agents that know its a problem and have wanted it addressed for years and has been a point during the CBAs
Skenes pitch counts in 4 starts
46
44
55
65
Its definitely a problem when any professional team isnt putting the best possible product on the field
I guess I’m just agreeing with the data that I have seen which supports the thesis I proposed previously in this very thread.
As average velocity has increased injuries have increased.
There is a number of competitive innings a pitcher needs to be able to handle in MLB which is more than Japan and more than college.
A pitchers first season in the MLB is usually not 200 innings. Many rookie pitchers go down or are shut down before the end of the season. For every outlier there are 10 that support the pattern.
I can understand what the teams are doing. I want them to pitch him out. Ruin the kid.
Skenes is pitching today MiLB Free Game of Day. Taking the mound up 1-0.
Slider is on point today, but the Sinker and 4-seam are a little flat (similar to the game against the Saints). Couple mistakes but pitching to contact with a 5 run lead (now 4).
Pitched himself out of trouble in a couple innings. Robo ump today, so when he's landing the slider he's looking dominant with the fastball and sinker. When he's missing, he's getting into some trouble. The ones that he's missing are mostly competitive pitches and on the bottom edge of the zone -- probably going to get those calls in MLB.
Does he get the 5th? Low pitch count through 4. Indeed he does.
71 pitches. 2 Runs. Pitched to one batter in the 5th (hit).
Change was not locating today.
4-seam FB was located very well. Flat, but he was on the corners away consistently.
Sinker was mostly great, but he was making mistakes over the plate and at the top of the zone. Seemed like most of the hits were sinkers today.
I think they should have let him finish the 5th. His velocity was highest in the 5th on the FB.
Once again, we’re wasting space talking about Skenes as it relates to the big league club… 11-0 when we score 4 runs, 2-12 when we don’t. We’re getting good enough pitching to be really good if only we had any bats. Unless Skenes can also hit, he doesn’t solve the Pirates’ problems.
Today's Pirates sound reminiscent of the 1960's Indians: when they had good pitching the hitting sucked, when they had good hitting the pitching stunk. It's a problem that plagues the small market teams. Cleveland solved their problems and became competitive in the early 1990's when they revamped their farm system and it still holds to this day, they can produce both pitching and position players to allow them to be competitive against anyone.
What is the state of the Pirates farm system?? In relation to the big league club, where are the three minor league teams located, are the facilities at all locations state-of-the-art and what is the minor league coaching like?? What about the scouting system, are they good at evaluating talent??
Comments
The most interesting concept to me is the dichotomy of knowing enough about something to think you’re right but not knowing enough about something to know that you’re wrong.
I don’t know if he will pitch well in the majors but I think that he will. I do look forward to seeing him pitch against a MLB lineup.
His fastball moves a lot for how fast it is. He has an elite fastball, elite slider, good changup and kind of a show me curveball thats still pretty good he just never really uses it. Hed like to slow the rotation on his changeup a little bit but its still above average
Have yet to lose a series. Historic day today for Mccutchen.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Yes it’s still early, but they are #6 and #7 in the entire major league in both team batting average and ERA.
I'm not sure I'd call 300 Hrs historic with how the game is now. 11 active players have that or more and Rizzo is only 4 away from making that 12. Betts, Judge, Schwarber basically need 2 healthy seasons to reach that as well. Theres also the guys like Alonso, Devers, Tatis, Vlad Jr, Acuna etc that will get it if they stay healthy. Were probably going to see more guys in the next 15-20 years get there than the previous 100 years
@4Boston asks: Are the 11-5 Pittsburgh Pirates for real?
I replied in a different thread that it was way, way to early to get excited about MLB right now, wait till at least July/August. In the meantime, do you think the 12-5 Braves are for real or the 13-6 Yankees and Indians are for real??
Oh yeah, the Pirates are now 11-8 and headed to the inevitable basement where they feel so comfortable.
They are a real team. I've seen them firsthand.
I think it's never too early to get excited about baseball. A week ago I thought the Red Sox were going to win 2 World Series titles in 2024...
The Pirates are an exciting team and I wouldn't count them out of the division.
Now that the Pirates can bring Skenes to the Majors without incurring a full year of service time I think we can put that argument to rest. @Basebal21 was wrong. Is that even possible?
https://www.mlb.com/pirates/news/pirates-paul-skenes-extends-scoreless-streak-at-triple-a
Everyone has Pennant fever with a winning record after 10 games 😂😂😂😂😂
Skenes is getting frustrated with the organization pulling him after 3 innings every game
Its also not that simple anymore to manipulate the service time. Players that finish in the top 2 of rookie of the year (which he very likely would) get a full year of service awarded to them regardless of when they are called up. You cant just call someone up the next day anymore
You have to hold someone down long enough now where they wont get enough time to qualify or have such limited time the voters hold it against them. The Os already changed their mind and called up Jackson Holliday a week or two ago
If the Pirates were serious about competing they wouldnt be having him strike out everyone in AAA throwing 60 pitches a game before being pulled
At this point however, given the structure, if he was called up and he is awarded a year of service time based on his performance…. Well. That’s a win for everyone. Pirates especially. The owners just wanted, and got, the PPI. They want more bullets in the gun.
The pirates think their window starts in 2025. So you really think this is about control 5 vs 6 years?
I’m also sure he’s really frustrated with the team and that’s not just drama. Once we cleared 172 the incentive to keep him in the minors went poof.
Did they patch the hole in Holliday’s bat yet? This last bit is just a joke.
Him getting a full year of service and them missing the playoffs which they will would be a big L for the front office that they would have to answer to the cheap owner for. Financially having him start opening day would have been a massive success for them and probably broken some ratings records for them
Hes said and the manager has said that the orders are from the Pirates front office for his pitch counts which are ridiculously low. Pulling Skenes at 3 innings or 60 pitches every time is not a club that is acting like they have interest in calling him up unless they are somehow still in the race late
Theyre doing the same thing with their HS pick but that actually makes sense. He wont be in the majors this year or next and HS seasons are significantly shorter. Skenes was never abused at LSU but had a good work load of around 100 pitches a game for 120ish innings before going to the minors last year so its not like a HS kid coming off 60 innings or so going into pro ball.
Technically they could control him for about 13 years, it takes 6 years for minor league free agency if youre never called up so they can waste him in the minors for years if they want.
If anything theyre regressing him by keeping his starts so short. Unless theyre converting him to a closer he needs to be getting to at least 4/5 innings and 80ish pitches, not 3 innings or 60ish
He would have to pitch very well to get awarded a year of service at the point.
Plus they get picks. The service time manipulation argument is not making sense here. Unless you have some all knowing eye I’m baffled how you can see it that way.
Let’s see what happens when his pitch limit gets increased after his next start.
I forgot this was pointless. My bad.
Id love to hear the explanation of him striking everyone out for 3 innings in the minors shortening his pitch counts being the best move.
They ran into a Red Sox pitcher that wanted it more than they did.
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
Stretching. Not shortening. And whether you agree or not it’s the current conventional wisdom.
60 pitch 3 inning outings in AAA are not the conventional wisdom for a starter or even the current standards. Hes being trained to throw less not more
Then they bump it up. And so on. Thats the stretching part. The article I linked before was the pirates saying everything I was telling you from the start.
This isn’t rocket surgery.
Skenes is exactly what his bio describes him as, a prospect. The trouble with all the hype about him is that the jump from NCAA to MLB is huge and talent isn't the most important aspect of things, although it is vitally important. The more important thing is coaching and development of players in the minor league system(s). Can the Pirates teach him a slider and change-up?? That's the key, because MLB hitters will catch up to a fastball, especially if it's flat.
I figure this guy is down in minors not because of anything discussed above, the organization knows enough to realize if he comes up now he'll get destroyed.
Just going to bump this from time to time
You should bump that weekly
I would also take those odds. I want to know if they’re 3rd, 4th, or 5th.
I think they are closer to 3rd than they are to 5th.
Youre right its not rocket science which is what I think you meant.
There is a pitcher Skenes that between LSU and the minor was throwing between 80-110ish pitches last year for over 130 innings.
So dominate and so polished he started the year in AAA where now hes throwing 3 innings or 60 pitches a start striking out over half the batters hes faced and putting up video game numbers while being frustrated his work load is so limited.
This isnt a HS player, this isnt a 16 year old international signing, this isnt a pitcher coming back from TJ surgery, this is a pitcher that already had basically the MLB workload that wasnt abused in college with absurd pitch counts like Rice used to do. Someone saying if they can teach him a slider is just silly when his fastball and slider are already rated elite.
He may not win a CY Young but he is without question one of the 5 best starters in the entire Pirates organization and theres no reason to waste him in AAA pitching 3 innings a start unless theyre trying to delay his service clock.
I meant rocket surgery. It’s a mash up. Rocket Science / Brain Surgery.
I would say “no one says he doesn’t have the stuff…” but I guess there’s 1 now. Anyways. Anyone who has seen him pitch knows he has 3+ pitches and those other 2 are not far behind.
It’s about getting him ready for his first mlb season. They’re doing it the same as just about every club in similar circumstances. And let’s not give Skenes the next 16 CY Young’s just yet. He’s no Ricky Vaughn.
Pirate fan here. Let’s just be honest - they could have a rotation of 5 hall of farmers and they still wouldn’t make the playoffs because they can’t hit to save their lives. Can’t win if you can’t score more than 2 per game (unless you have 5 prime Gibsons pitching complete games every time out). Doesn’t matter what they do with Skenes.
Jim
That pretty much sums it up. They dont believe they will make the playoffs or that Skenes would make the difference so hes in the minors being treated like someone rehabbing TJ surgery or a teenage international signing
That might need to be your Avator when they finish 4th in the division lol
I hope they left a little struggle in tank for the Brewers. The Crew will be tired after hauling all the brooms from St. Louis.
It's epic that since the thread title 11-5 was posted they haven't won a game 😂😂😂
The way they have been hitting, they might consider seeing if Jobu can help.
I still think 3rd, 4th, and 5th are pretty up for grabs in the NL Central, but 1st & 2nd are Milwaukee and Chicago in whatever order.
Milwaukee is going to need to add another starting pitcher unless Ashby can get back to form or Gasser comes back strong. I thought a guy like Cease would have been a good fit in Milwaukee. They might have one of the deepest bullpens in MLB, but it's already being tested and that is troubling.
Jinxed.
On one of the Red Sox post I posted GO SOX and then lost several games or even got swept I think.
Ofcourse I jinxed it.
I swear I was going to bet the Brewers tonight but figured that post would definitely bite me lol
You might see a position player make a pitching start for the Crew this series. Who do we have at double A left standing? Haha.
👍🍺😂
Keep talking man. Keep talking lol
Skenes is a man among boys at Indy AAA. When is he getting called up ?
Oh trust me I'm looking forward to keeping this updated 😂😂😂
They said that the goal was 85 pitches. He’s at what 60-65 in his last start? If they keep him down for more than 2 more AAA starts then I’m going to have to say Basebal21 was right here. Whether he knows or is just guessing the worst I have no idea.
I think we see him in MLB before the end of May. That would give him a shot at being able to finish the season strong.
@4Boston
You already changed your avatar 😂😂😂😂
The long history of the Organization doing it and even making the mistake of making it public by telling him no matter what he does in spring training he wont make the roster when other teams like the Padres with Tatis Jr give young stars a chance to earn a spot. Toronto was going to do it with Vlady JR but changed their mind a week or two into the season. For the Pirates you can go all the way back to guys like Andrew McCutchen who should have started the year on the roster. Granted in his day everyone did it, but they did it with Cole as well just to name some others.
This is just the first time that its so blatantly obvious between historical domination and absurdly low pitch counts that they dont have a reasonable excuse for it. Even if they call him up tomorrow theyve already wasted 4 starts and those crazy low pitch counts really arent good for someone that is expected to be called up as a starter. The last thing I want to see is some guy get hurt because theyve been throwing 60 pitches a start getting babied for a month or two and then come up and are expected to almost double their work load
Yeah but that’s just your own conjecture. If it’s not backed by data it’s just guessing. You get kicked out of the conference room taking like that. We will see.
Its not conjecture, its well known in baseball circles and has been a major issue for the last three CBAs
Agents/players/coaches/front office people know which teams do it. Most teams just arent dumb to publicly say no matter what hes going to the minors
I disagree with your stance that all cases are what you say.
I also disagree that it’s a problem.
Unless you can bring something to the table other than “everyone knows” I think this is what they call an impasse.
You can certainly disagree, but youd be disagreeing with the players and agents that know its a problem and have wanted it addressed for years and has been a point during the CBAs
Skenes pitch counts in 4 starts
46
44
55
65
Its definitely a problem when any professional team isnt putting the best possible product on the field
I guess I’m just agreeing with the data that I have seen which supports the thesis I proposed previously in this very thread.
I can understand what the teams are doing. I want them to pitch him out. Ruin the kid.
Keep chirping please !!!
2-0 post chirping 🍺🍺
Crew is done for the year. Bummer too.
Skenes is pitching today MiLB Free Game of Day. Taking the mound up 1-0.
Slider is on point today, but the Sinker and 4-seam are a little flat (similar to the game against the Saints). Couple mistakes but pitching to contact with a 5 run lead (now 4).
Pitched himself out of trouble in a couple innings. Robo ump today, so when he's landing the slider he's looking dominant with the fastball and sinker. When he's missing, he's getting into some trouble. The ones that he's missing are mostly competitive pitches and on the bottom edge of the zone -- probably going to get those calls in MLB.
Does he get the 5th? Low pitch count through 4. Indeed he does.
71 pitches. 2 Runs. Pitched to one batter in the 5th (hit).
Change was not locating today.
4-seam FB was located very well. Flat, but he was on the corners away consistently.
Sinker was mostly great, but he was making mistakes over the plate and at the top of the zone. Seemed like most of the hits were sinkers today.
I think they should have let him finish the 5th. His velocity was highest in the 5th on the FB.
Once again, we’re wasting space talking about Skenes as it relates to the big league club… 11-0 when we score 4 runs, 2-12 when we don’t. We’re getting good enough pitching to be really good if only we had any bats. Unless Skenes can also hit, he doesn’t solve the Pirates’ problems.
Jim
Today's Pirates sound reminiscent of the 1960's Indians: when they had good pitching the hitting sucked, when they had good hitting the pitching stunk. It's a problem that plagues the small market teams. Cleveland solved their problems and became competitive in the early 1990's when they revamped their farm system and it still holds to this day, they can produce both pitching and position players to allow them to be competitive against anyone.
What is the state of the Pirates farm system?? In relation to the big league club, where are the three minor league teams located, are the facilities at all locations state-of-the-art and what is the minor league coaching like?? What about the scouting system, are they good at evaluating talent??