@FinnsCoin said:
I can't show the FB because my camera isn't good enough, but I can show the proof/cameo half. Just because it is a third world holder doesn't automatically mean is is incorrectly graded.
Ouch your phone is your lifetime best friend. I have both IPhone 8+ that I’m using now plus an iPhone 14.
I find it difficult to fathom that you may not realize this, but in case you don't, the reason your threads here and on the BST are getting so much action is because of the way the material is being offered. That is, in no-name holders, which are equivalent to raw coins, and the pieces inside with sometimes astronomical grades and/or values. That is generally the recipe for a fly-by-night ebay seller. The unbelievable story about Stack's and the 1945 Mercury dime also does not help you.
Again, it is all going to come down to how you price the material. If you want market value for what you consider the MS66FB 1945 Merc ($20k+) then it will sit. If, however, you want MS64 ($25) money, which is more likely what the coin is, then it may sell. I believe you have multiple coins like this.
@TomB said:
I find it difficult to fathom that you may not realize this, but in case you don't, the reason your threads here and on the BST are getting so much action is because of the way the material is being offered. That is, in no-name holders, which are equivalent to raw coins, and the pieces inside with sometimes astronomical grades and/or values. That is generally the recipe for a fly-by-night ebay seller. The unbelievable story about Stack's and the 1945 Mercury dime also does not help you.
Again, it is all going to come down to how you price the material. If you want market value for what you consider the MS66FB 1945 Merc ($20k+) then it will sit. If, however, you want MS64 ($25) money, which is more likely what the coin is, then it may sell. I believe you have multiple coins like this.
Practice good security, lock your cases if leaving your table. Make no stops (dining) driving to and from show.
Keep an eye on anything your showing. Thieves can do quick slight of hands. Don’t allow any their crap on your table or some distraction - somebody else. Don’t allow anybody take something away they haven’t paid for (show to buddy).
Don’t let the other dealers low ball / rip you.
Try to sell sell sell even if low margin. Coins do not pay interest or dividends. Your fighting show exp, table fee.
There will be other dealers there with everything under the sun don’t let it bug you.
Prices on holders has its plus and minus / they will try talk you down. Other dealers will try undercut you. If people not asking prices means they are broke. Take a look around bourse room see what pct have prices on holders, decide what works for you. If they want it they will ask the price. Be prepared hold your ground or make counter offer.
Loading / unloading your most vulnerable. Try have cart so just one trip from and to car. Don’t leave inventory unattended.
Don’t argue with some collector especially one trying undercut you especially if hosing you with some fancy BS. Just say it’s your best price, lowest price consignor will go, etc.
When buying don’t let some other player butt in and horn in on your deal. Look at the material quickly on back table, pay the seller quickly (blocking the guy trying horn in), put them away (brief case or bank bag locked in your case). If the other dealer wants look at them (rip you) just say they are for a customer (get rid of him till you have chance decide what sell them for or send in for slabbing).
My assistant she helps (selling) plus is a security person (ex military police, European country, trained to knock an assailant down with one kick). Having an assistant or sharing a table with a friend can help.
When I was starting out as a wedding photographer, there was a mantra... "fake it until you make it."
But in reality, coming out of the gates with zero experience, crap equipment, and even worse images was unprofessional.
Had a mentor that employed me for a year and about twenty weddings. Was I ever ready to make the leap... probably not, but I had the skill not to ruin somebodies lifetime event.
You got alot of mentors on this forum telling you, that you are not ready...
Reputation and relationships with other dealers is more important than sales at this point.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
@FinnsCoin said:
I am going to be a dealer at first coin show in dedham massachusetts. Anyone have any advice?
Based on the “rest of the story” info. I’d recommend you should not set up at the upcoming coin show for I think you’ll be unsuccessful selling your “wares” there.
Just my 2 cents worth & to increase my post count.
@WAYNEAS said:
If one was to stop by your table, what would we see being offered?
Wayne
This is what I plan on bringing. The more expansive stuff is slabbed and the cheaper stuff in snaps.
Is this your USB stuff? You only have 2 coins in slabs. Do you really think it's worth paying for a table to try to sell them?
As for the other stuff, snaps=raw. And, again, you barely have a handful of coins there. How do you expect to recover the cost of the table, even if you sell everything?
The table is only $65. plus most of the coins are still very nice even if you consider them raw. I only need 1 or 2 to sell to brake even based on the value of the coins.
I guess, but that assumes they cost you nothing. Did they? If not, making $65 profit on one or two of those coins seems like a stretch. Good luck!
@FinnsCoin said:
If either one of these sold I would brake even or if any of the FB dimes/prrof half/curled 2 half sold i would also brake even. I think these are the more likely coins to sell.
Your dimes are not FB, and there's no such thing as an FB-66 grade anyway. Your half is not proof, let alone cameo. Your 3 cent is not MS-68.
I think that selling any of these would be an awful result for you. If someone is willing to pay your price based on those descriptions, that very likely means that they noticed something else entirely. You could wonder for years what you let go without realizing it.
Is the organizer of the show aware of what you're going to sell? I am not a lawyer, but I wonder if he has any liability for coins that are as misrepresented as these seem to be...
Since when are organizers legally responsible for what dealers do at their shows? I'll bet each and every contract signed by each and every table holder at each and every show in the country holds promoters and organizers harmless.
If not, there would be no shows, because organizers would be responsible for everything from indigestion from bad hot dogs to all the theft that dealers have been subjected to lately.
@FinnsCoin said:
I can't show the FB because my camera isn't good enough, but I can show the proof/cameo half. Just because it is a third world holder doesn't automatically mean is is incorrectly graded.
Actually, it does. They have no credibility, so no one with anything decent uses them.
If something is graded "Crap" in one of those holders, the grade might be accurate, but no one who knows what they are doing takes the monetary hit of trying to sell a true 1852 3c MS 68 in a no-name holder.
And, no one interested in buying such a coin pays full price for it while it is in such a holder. Because, as I said before, it is considered raw in the eyes of the market, and the buyer would be taking all the risk that a recognized grading service might not agree with the grade, or even agree that the coin is genuine.
A buyer who knows what they are doing might take the risk, but they will demand a significant discount in return for doing so. Now, why would a knowledgeable seller who knows what they are doing grant such a discount, unless they know something the buyer does not?
Which begs the question as to whether or not you are a knowledgeable seller?
@jmlanzaf said:
There's something not quite right here.
??? Care to elaborate….
We've got $20 coins and alleged $15,000 coins in these same mongrel holders. See the FB thread on BST.
_
And with all the solicited advice, no one has told him to NOT set up a case full of mongrel holders. Even if the proof half is real, no one is going to look twice at it.
Damn, are the third world holders really that bad. I have a pcgs account with 8 vouchers but just didn't want to send them in because of the ridiculous turnaround times right now. I would think that collectors would evaluate the coin itself rather than the holder.
@FinnsCoin said:
Damn, are the third world holders really that bad. I have a pcgs account with 8 vouchers but just didn't want to send them in because of the ridiculous turnaround times right now. I would think that collectors would evaluate the coin itself rather than the holder.
From your responses and your images, it appears to me that you do not have the requisite skill, experience and/or insight in this hobby-industry to set up as a dealer at a show. Yes, that is a harsh statement, but folks who go to shows view dealers as having a certain base level of competence that I do not know that you have and, if you pretend to have it, you would essentially be attempting to fool the public. Again, this is all written without the knowledge of your desired price level for the various pieces you have shared.
As far as the statement of yours that I have quoted, if the holder and what is written on it truly did not matter then why don't we still sell all coins at shows raw or with simply a certificate of authenticity? Because assigned and market accepted grades matter.
It is tough to sell at shows without reputable certified holders. I have even had a "bump in the road" selling to dealers at shows with my PCGS graded coins when trying to use them in exchange when making a deal on one of their coins as a partial payment. It's either, "that coin is not for me" or just simply "not interested."
I was able to strike a deal at Baltimore this past Thursday with an OGH to use as payment towards a purchase for a coin a dealer had but was offered a little less than I had hoped. I took the deal anyway and upgraded my registry set coin. Just pointing out a couple of things about the holders is what I am getting at...
@FinnsCoin said:
Damn, are the third world holders really that bad. I have a pcgs account with 8 vouchers but just didn't want to send them in because of the ridiculous turnaround times right now. I would think that collectors would evaluate the coin itself rather than the holder.
@FinnsCoin said:
Damn, are the third world holders really that bad. I have a pcgs account with 8 vouchers but just didn't want to send them in because of the ridiculous turnaround times right now. I would think that collectors would evaluate the coin itself rather than the holder.
For a FB coin with a 5 figure price difference, not a chance. It would be 100x easier to sell a non-FB coin in a PCGS FB slab than to sell an actual FB coin in that holder. [And yours did not appear to be remotely close to FB.]
There's a reason no legitimate dealer uses fake slabs. But to have a case full of them makes you look like either you're ignorant or you think the customer is.
We've already discussed the not FB. There's also close to a zero chance that the 3 cent is anywhere near 68. And, I would say there's a significant chance that the half is either fake or impaired. Who would put 5 figure coins in mongrel holders?
A real numismatist wouldn't care about the holder. However, newbies and people without full confidence rely on them. Such a person wouldn't buy those coins. And the real numismatist is unlikely to buy the coins also because they won't look at them. If you had one such slab in a sea of PCGS, he might look. When you have one PCGS in a sea of fake slabs, he's not even going to stop at the table.
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but it is the reality.
If, when you leave, you think you are being followed, just take 3 right turns (circle) and if they are still behind you it's because they are going to rob you. Get on your phone and tell 911 that they are following and you need instructions to find a policeman.
bob
That 78 morgan is not MS by any stretch.
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
He's already said he'll give a report after the show. That's more than fair to us.
Maybe we should let him pay his tuition.🤷♂️
BTW, I still don't understand the slabs. Did he do them himself, or is that the handiwork of a 10th-tier TPG? The OP must have been their first customer as the numbers start from single digits.
@JBK said:
He's already said he'll give a report after the show. That's more than fair to us.
Maybe we should let him pay his tuition.🤷♂️
BTW, I still don't understand the slabs. Did he do them himself, or is that the handiwork of a 10th-tier TPG? The OP must have been their first customer as the numbers start from single digits.
It was a third party grading site. I'll let you know how it goes.
@JBK said:
He's already said he'll give a report after the show. That's more than fair to us.
Maybe we should let him pay his tuition.🤷♂️
BTW, I still don't understand the slabs. Did he do them himself, or is that the handiwork of a 10th-tier TPG? The OP must have been their first customer as the numbers start from single digits.
It was a third party grading site. I'll let you know how it goes.
Did you submit the coins yourself? If so, how could you trust such an operation with an allegedly 5 figure coin?
@JBK said:
He's already said he'll give a report after the show. That's more than fair to us.
Maybe we should let him pay his tuition.🤷♂️
BTW, I still don't understand the slabs. Did he do them himself, or is that the handiwork of a 10th-tier TPG? The OP must have been their first customer as the numbers start from single digits.
It was a third party grading site. I'll let you know how it goes.
Did you submit the coins yourself? If so, how could you trust such an operation with an allegedly 5 figure coin?
At this point the OP might be best served by burning this account, cracking all the coins out of their snap-lock holders and walking around the show with everything in cardboard 2x2 holders to blow out to the dealers and then registering again under a different user name on the forum.
If you search around long enough on the same website domain for the “grading” services, you can find many of these same coins he pictures for sale on page 1 of this thread raw. But now it has been “graded”. None of this jives at all.
@FinnsCoin said:
Being completely honest I wanted to start a grading business with the best of my abilities and I decided to start it with my own coins
@Constantine said:
If you search around long enough on the same website domain for the “grading” services, you can find many of these same coins he pictures for sale on page 1 of this thread raw. But now it has been “graded. None of this jives at all.
@FinnsCoin said:
Being completely honest I wanted to start a grading business with the best of my abilities and I decided to start it with my own coins
So you are being “completely honest” only after being called out? Hmmmm
Comments
There's something not quite right here.
Ouch your phone is your lifetime best friend. I have both IPhone 8+ that I’m using now plus an iPhone 14.
You need to get an iPhone like yesterday.
My iPhone 8+ pics & am a lousy photographer
??? Care to elaborate….
I find it difficult to fathom that you may not realize this, but in case you don't, the reason your threads here and on the BST are getting so much action is because of the way the material is being offered. That is, in no-name holders, which are equivalent to raw coins, and the pieces inside with sometimes astronomical grades and/or values. That is generally the recipe for a fly-by-night ebay seller. The unbelievable story about Stack's and the 1945 Mercury dime also does not help you.
Again, it is all going to come down to how you price the material. If you want market value for what you consider the MS66FB 1945 Merc ($20k+) then it will sit. If, however, you want MS64 ($25) money, which is more likely what the coin is, then it may sell. I believe you have multiple coins like this.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Now I see “the rest of the story” thanks to TomB
The so called FB Merc:
Congrats on your move into shows.
When I was starting out as a wedding photographer, there was a mantra... "fake it until you make it."
But in reality, coming out of the gates with zero experience, crap equipment, and even worse images was unprofessional.
Had a mentor that employed me for a year and about twenty weddings. Was I ever ready to make the leap... probably not, but I had the skill not to ruin somebodies lifetime event.
You got alot of mentors on this forum telling you, that you are not ready...
Reputation and relationships with other dealers is more important than sales at this point.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Based on the “rest of the story” info. I’d recommend you should not set up at the upcoming coin show for I think you’ll be unsuccessful selling your “wares” there.
Just my 2 cents worth & to increase my post count.
I guess, but that assumes they cost you nothing. Did they? If not, making $65 profit on one or two of those coins seems like a stretch. Good luck!
Since when are organizers legally responsible for what dealers do at their shows? I'll bet each and every contract signed by each and every table holder at each and every show in the country holds promoters and organizers harmless.
If not, there would be no shows, because organizers would be responsible for everything from indigestion from bad hot dogs to all the theft that dealers have been subjected to lately.
Actually, it does. They have no credibility, so no one with anything decent uses them.
If something is graded "Crap" in one of those holders, the grade might be accurate, but no one who knows what they are doing takes the monetary hit of trying to sell a true 1852 3c MS 68 in a no-name holder.
And, no one interested in buying such a coin pays full price for it while it is in such a holder. Because, as I said before, it is considered raw in the eyes of the market, and the buyer would be taking all the risk that a recognized grading service might not agree with the grade, or even agree that the coin is genuine.
A buyer who knows what they are doing might take the risk, but they will demand a significant discount in return for doing so. Now, why would a knowledgeable seller who knows what they are doing grant such a discount, unless they know something the buyer does not?
Which begs the question as to whether or not you are a knowledgeable seller?
I just received a pop up window telling me “your comments will be posted after review” hmmmm hmmm
Looks like my review post was rejected….
I would almost give you $69 not to set up at the show.
Sell the coins on Ebay and recycle the money elsewhere.
Maybe we can laugh about this thread in a decade when you graduate to a PNG dealer and sponsor me into the guild.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
We've got $20 coins and alleged $15,000 coins in these same mongrel holders. See the FB thread on BST.
_
And with all the solicited advice, no one has told him to NOT set up a case full of mongrel holders. Even if the proof half is real, no one is going to look twice at it.
On the 1878p Morgan... can you identify the reverse and the VAM?
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Damn, are the third world holders really that bad. I have a pcgs account with 8 vouchers but just didn't want to send them in because of the ridiculous turnaround times right now. I would think that collectors would evaluate the coin itself rather than the holder.
From your responses and your images, it appears to me that you do not have the requisite skill, experience and/or insight in this hobby-industry to set up as a dealer at a show. Yes, that is a harsh statement, but folks who go to shows view dealers as having a certain base level of competence that I do not know that you have and, if you pretend to have it, you would essentially be attempting to fool the public. Again, this is all written without the knowledge of your desired price level for the various pieces you have shared.
As far as the statement of yours that I have quoted, if the holder and what is written on it truly did not matter then why don't we still sell all coins at shows raw or with simply a certificate of authenticity? Because assigned and market accepted grades matter.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
2nd reverse. I don't know much about Vams
PCGS had too long of turnaround times and I paid $10 per coin
It is tough to sell at shows without reputable certified holders. I have even had a "bump in the road" selling to dealers at shows with my PCGS graded coins when trying to use them in exchange when making a deal on one of their coins as a partial payment. It's either, "that coin is not for me" or just simply "not interested."
I was able to strike a deal at Baltimore this past Thursday with an OGH to use as payment towards a purchase for a coin a dealer had but was offered a little less than I had hoped. I took the deal anyway and upgraded my registry set coin. Just pointing out a couple of things about the holders is what I am getting at...
Those holders are a huge red flag.
Break them out and sell them as raw coins.
For a FB coin with a 5 figure price difference, not a chance. It would be 100x easier to sell a non-FB coin in a PCGS FB slab than to sell an actual FB coin in that holder. [And yours did not appear to be remotely close to FB.]
There's a reason no legitimate dealer uses fake slabs. But to have a case full of them makes you look like either you're ignorant or you think the customer is.
We've already discussed the not FB. There's also close to a zero chance that the 3 cent is anywhere near 68. And, I would say there's a significant chance that the half is either fake or impaired. Who would put 5 figure coins in mongrel holders?
A real numismatist wouldn't care about the holder. However, newbies and people without full confidence rely on them. Such a person wouldn't buy those coins. And the real numismatist is unlikely to buy the coins also because they won't look at them. If you had one such slab in a sea of PCGS, he might look. When you have one PCGS in a sea of fake slabs, he's not even going to stop at the table.
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but it is the reality.
If, when you leave, you think you are being followed, just take 3 right turns (circle) and if they are still behind you it's because they are going to rob you. Get on your phone and tell 911 that they are following and you need instructions to find a policeman.
bob
That 78 morgan is not MS by any stretch.
He's already said he'll give a report after the show. That's more than fair to us.
Maybe we should let him pay his tuition.🤷♂️
BTW, I still don't understand the slabs. Did he do them himself, or is that the handiwork of a 10th-tier TPG? The OP must have been their first customer as the numbers start from single digits.
It was a third party grading site. I'll let you know how it goes.
, > @FinnsCoin said:
Did you submit the coins yourself? If so, how could you trust such an operation with an allegedly 5 figure coin?
Seemed legit and everything came back fine.
From the OP's first thread, before it was apparently deleted via the edit bug:
https://unitedstatesbullion.org/services/
>
Oh, the humanity...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/16KpTVDGWFJxMzPnly4ozmyq8T45WhLpWF4mwG50jSLA/htmlview
Ok. I'm starting to smell a rat.
How come when I click on "View Catalog" I see only the OP's coins? Either he's the only customer or he's the slabber.
It's news to me there is even a catalog there wasnt when I sent them off
This guy on here posting is the same guy slabbing these coins on that link. This is all horse crap.
At this point the OP might be best served by burning this account, cracking all the coins out of their snap-lock holders and walking around the show with everything in cardboard 2x2 holders to blow out to the dealers and then registering again under a different user name on the forum.
Seriously.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
The OP has slab #0001 onward so it makes sense.
Well-spotted!
If you search around long enough on the same website domain for the “grading” services, you can find many of these same coins he pictures for sale on page 1 of this thread raw. But now it has been “graded”. None of this jives at all.
Here is one example.
https://unitedstatesbullion.org/product/proof-64-1867-seated-liberty-half-dollar/
Being completely honest I wanted to start a grading business with the best of my abilities and I decided to start it with my own coins
I think it is ridiculous paying hundreds to get my coins graded
I'm not ill intentioned
There it is, folks!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Well...there might be room for disagreement with many of us on that one.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
With gradeflation
:
If you want to see what im trying to do you can view my youtube: https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UCOMIJFAyRPftCDA4NX3k33Q/videos/upload?filter=[]&sort={"columnType":"date","sortOrder":"DESCENDING"}
im trying to make it as a bullion and coin dealer at 17 . its difficult. This is my bad.
I'm trying to get a $10 grading service to catch on because it is so expensive otherwise.
So you are being “completely honest” only after being called out? Hmmmm
Its my fault for the false pretenses. I don't think ill burn the account nor will I stop trying to make it in this business.
I'll be back in the morning to see the barrage of comments on this discussion.
But if you do want $10 grading : https://unitedstatesbullion.org/services/