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What is the largest grade decrease you have received?

U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

By popular (?) demand, let's see your biggest grade drops.

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    U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lermish here is your chance ...

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    U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:
    I don't have photos yet I had a PCI AU50 early commemorative (I think it was a Texas half) cross "at-any-grade" and come back VF25.

    Was it an early or later generation PCI? And what grade did you think it was?

    I had one PCI in a newer holder fail to cross at PCGS (for being QC, which was the right decision but I thought it was worth taking the small chance that it might have crossed).

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    lermishlermish Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2024 7:07PM

    Ask and I shall receive? :D

    Most of my drops are crossing chopmarked T$s from NGC to PCGS.

    I dropped a 57-S $20 from NGC 58 CAC to PCGS 55 CAC. Super genius that I am, I also crossed a 81-S $1 from ANACS 65 to PCGS 64 (don't ask...).

    I have dropped many chopmarked trade dollars a full level (AU -> XF, UNC->AU) but on one special occasion I dropped an AU to VF!

    Edit: I forgot about the French Indochina Piastre I dropped from AU55 to XF40...

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    U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lermish said:
    Ask and I shall receive? :D

    Most of my drops are crossing chopmarked T$s from NGC to PCGS.

    I dropped a 57-S $20 from NGC 58 CAC to PCGS 55 CAC. Super genius that I am, I also crossed a 81-S $1 from ANACS 65 to PCGS 64 (don't ask...).

    I have dropped many chopmarked trade dollars a full level (AU -> XF, UNC->AU) but on one special occasion I dropped an AU to VF!

    Edit: I forgot about the French Indochina Piastre I dropped from AU55 to XF40...

    Well the TPGs thank you (and would be even happier if you tried at least once more to get them back up to the prior grades). :D

    In all seriousness, if one submits enough, there will be downgrades (even if some are bad decisions on our parts). Plus I'm guessing at least some of the chopped trade dollars got straight grades? Even if it drops, that is probably better than the details grade NGC gives all chopped coins.

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    yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Over the years, I have cracked a few Morgan's in ANACS holders (blue/gold).

    Each came back on point less...

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

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    lermishlermish Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @U1chicago said:

    @lermish said:
    Ask and I shall receive? :D

    Most of my drops are crossing chopmarked T$s from NGC to PCGS.

    I dropped a 57-S $20 from NGC 58 CAC to PCGS 55 CAC. Super genius that I am, I also crossed a 81-S $1 from ANACS 65 to PCGS 64 (don't ask...).

    I have dropped many chopmarked trade dollars a full level (AU -> XF, UNC->AU) but on one special occasion I dropped an AU to VF!

    Edit: I forgot about the French Indochina Piastre I dropped from AU55 to XF40...

    Well the TPGs thank you (and would be even happier if you tried at least once more to get them back up to the prior grades). :D

    In all seriousness, if one submits enough, there will be downgrades (even if some are bad decisions on our parts). Plus I'm guessing at least some of the chopped trade dollars got straight grades? Even if it drops, that is probably better than the details grade NGC gives all chopped coins.

    I'm sure PCGS is very happy to be my TPG of choice!😂

    Particularly with trade dollars I've had some very fine results with numerical grades and subsequent CAC approval. Fortunately, more than enough to make up for my other illadvised blunders

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    OmegaraptorOmegaraptor Posts: 528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GRANDAM said:
    PCGS MS67 TO CACG DETAILS :'(

    Out of curiosity... toned coin that CACG slapped with a QC?

    "You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."

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    pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeah these stories are harder to stomach, and for some to admit.

    I've had some nice winners, but I've also had a 58 go details, a 63 go 61 (what?!) and plenty of one point drops (55 to 53, 58 to 55, 63 to 62, etc.). I'm probably missing one that I totally put out of my mind.

    I will say some of the one point drops were calculated as they went from one service to another.

    Not my doing but I own a P61 that crossed at P58 on crack-out, and another that was N61 that is P58 now (I have the old tags and know the submitter well).

    Another one that wasn't my doing is a P50 Draped Bust I own that can be traced to an N55 holder from several years before I bought her. Researching the sale history, that one was a stiff haircut for someone.


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
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    braddickbraddick Posts: 23,122 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @U1chicago said:

    @braddick said:
    I don't have photos yet I had a PCI AU50 early commemorative (I think it was a Texas half) cross "at-any-grade" and come back VF25.

    Was it an early or later generation PCI? And what grade did you think it was?

    I had one PCI in a newer holder fail to cross at PCGS (for being QC, which was the right decision but I thought it was worth taking the small chance that it might have crossed).

    Early generation PCI. I had personally sent it in along with a few others I picked up from the Long Beach coin show back in the late 1980s.
    On a side note: I was actually pleased as I was trying to put together a set of lowball/worn problem free commemoratives so the downgrade was a positive for me.
    Personally, I did see wear yet do also remember being slightly taken aback at the grade thinking perhaps XF45 or so.

    peacockcoins

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I bought the 1904-O Barber half dollar at the Pittman sale in partnership with another dealer. It was a deeply toned but essentially perfect gem, and (to us) an obvious proof, identical in fabric to the the unique proof 1904-O $10. PCGS graded it 67 but refused to call it a proof, or even SP. So my partner dipped it to a deadish gray-white and got it into an NGC SP62 holder. Turned 30-something-K into about 4K, IIRC. Although I never actually got paid my half of the 4K, but that's a story for another day. :D:'(;)

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    braddickbraddick Posts: 23,122 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm seeing a lot of 'likes' and wonder if it liking the story or liking the downgrade the collector/dealer received?

    :#

    peacockcoins

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    1madman1madman Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    I bought the 1904-O Barber half dollar at the Pittman sale in partnership with another dealer. It was a deeply toned but essentially perfect gem, and (to us) an obvious proof, identical in fabric to the the unique proof 1904-O $10. PCGS graded it 67 but refused to call it a proof, or even SP. So my partner dipped it to a deadish gray-white and got it into an NGC SP62 holder. Turned 30-something-K into about 4K, IIRC. Although I never actually got paid my half of the 4K, but that's a story for another day. :D:'(;)

    Why did he/you choose to go to NGC after the dip? Why didn’t the coin go back to pcgs after the dip, or crack and submit the toned version to NGC? I must be misunderstanding a step along the way.

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    GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Omegaraptor said:

    @GRANDAM said:
    PCGS MS67 TO CACG DETAILS :'(

    Out of curiosity... toned coin that CACG slapped with a QC?

    No, a BLAST WHITE 1976-S IKE Dollar. It had some small marks on the reverse and they called it damaged.

    GrandAm :)
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    U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:
    I'm seeing a lot of 'likes' and wonder if it liking the story or liking the downgrade the collector/dealer received?

    :#

    In my case, the like is showing appreciation for people sharing their experiences.

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    DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Morgan from 6 to details.

    It got a 6 again then finally the 7 it deserved all along after a few more tries.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

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    johntjohnt Posts: 44 ✭✭✭

    I submitted a 1964 D washington in an ICG 67 slab that was an unattributed type C. I knew it would downgrade, but maybe not that much. It came back an attributed Type C MS63 from NGC.

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1madman said:

    @MrEureka said:
    I bought the 1904-O Barber half dollar at the Pittman sale in partnership with another dealer. It was a deeply toned but essentially perfect gem, and (to us) an obvious proof, identical in fabric to the the unique proof 1904-O $10. PCGS graded it 67 but refused to call it a proof, or even SP. So my partner dipped it to a deadish gray-white and got it into an NGC SP62 holder. Turned 30-something-K into about 4K, IIRC. Although I never actually got paid my half of the 4K, but that's a story for another day. :D:'(;)

    Why did he/you choose to go to NGC after the dip? Why didn’t the coin go back to pcgs after the dip, or crack and submit the toned version to NGC? I must be misunderstanding a step along the way.

    I’m sure there were many steps along the way. Can’t say I remember all of the details.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:
    I'm seeing a lot of 'likes' and wonder if it liking the story or liking the downgrade the collector/dealer received?

    :#

    If we had a thumbs down button I’d use it, but we got what we got. “Thumbs down”

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    7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does NNC count? Hardly, I'd imagine. Anyway, our ebay friend had a rare Panama pattern that was graded Proof68 and host knocked it down to a 64 (maybe harsh IMHO by a point) but the coin had to be in a reputable slab.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
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    TypekatTypekat Posts: 161 ✭✭✭

    1878 $3 gold NGC MS 64+, to PCGS details (streak removed)

    30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!

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    braddickbraddick Posts: 23,122 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GRANDAM said:

    @Omegaraptor said:

    @GRANDAM said:
    PCGS MS67 TO CACG DETAILS :'(

    Out of curiosity... toned coin that CACG slapped with a QC?

    No, a BLAST WHITE 1976-S IKE Dollar. It had some small marks on the reverse and they called it damaged.

    It IS a small world.
    I believe I recently purchased this Ike!

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/355510487272

    :o

    peacockcoins

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have never gotten a downgrade.

    The worst one I have heard of was a dealer who cracked a PR-64 Morgan Dollar thinking he could get a PR-65. He tried for the upgrade three times. The second time, it came back MS-64, P-L, which was a huge financial hit. He finally got it back into a PR-64 holder.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,640 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1 point

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    MoparmonsterMoparmonster Posts: 135 ✭✭✭✭

    VG8 to G details cleaned. Didn’t get burned though. Was able to sell it yesterday at a show raw for what I paid and was straight up honest with the guy and gave him the inserts.

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    GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:

    @GRANDAM said:

    @Omegaraptor said:

    @GRANDAM said:
    PCGS MS67 TO CACG DETAILS :'(

    Out of curiosity... toned coin that CACG slapped with a QC?

    No, a BLAST WHITE 1976-S IKE Dollar. It had some small marks on the reverse and they called it damaged.

    It IS a small world.
    I believe I recently purchased this Ike!

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/355510487272

    :o

    Yes, that is the coin I am talking about, can’t believe it was body bagged.

    GrandAm :)
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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,053 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Crossed" (via USPS damage to the holder) a PCGS EF45 CAC to PCGS EF40 CAC. The coin miraculously incurred no damage at all. The latter grade is the correct one, IMO. JA considers EF to be worthy of only one grade step anyway.


    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    Someone must have an XF-AU coin that got downgraded to Fake!! :p

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    braddickbraddick Posts: 23,122 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider3 said:
    Someone must have an XF-AU coin that got downgraded to Fake!! :p

    peacockcoins

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    OnWithTheHuntOnWithTheHunt Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Almost the exact opposite of what I posted on the thread about the largest grade bump. A 1927-D Buffalo 3-1/2 leg Buffalo, (yes, same year same variety) went from SEGS VF-20 to PCGS VG-8.

    Proud recipient of the coveted "You Suck Award" (9/3/10).
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    BigtreeBigtree Posts: 197 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I crossed an 1842 seated half in NGC AU53 CAC to PCGS XF45 (ouch). I then sent the original NGC label to CAC and had the PCGS coin gold beaned, so I made out ok in the end.

    I also crossed an 1846 or 47 seated dollar from a PCGS 25 to a CACG 12 😅

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    VetterVetter Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had 1921 D Walker in an older NGC holder F15. Looked close to VF so I took a chance and cracked it out. It’s now in a NGC F12 holder.

    Members I have done business with:
    Silverman68, jfoot13, GAB, ricman, Smittys, scrapman1077, RyGuy, Connecticoin, Meltdown, VikingDude, Peaceman, Patches and more.
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    mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Moparmonster said:
    VG8 to G details cleaned. Didn’t get burned though. Was able to sell it yesterday at a show raw for what I paid and was straight up honest with the guy and gave him the inserts.

    Makes one wonder if the grader actually looked at the coin before calling it an "8."

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

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    nencoinnencoin Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭✭

    A $50k+ coin from a details holder to a not genuine body bag. Fortunately we were able to sell back the coin.

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    ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2024 11:52AM

    This was back in 2005 so sorry, no photos.

    I had a Sesqui Commem in an NGC 64 "Fatty" holder that I picked off ebay. The photo was crappy, but I assumed it HAD to be a nice coin, and possibly upgradable, because it was a Fatty!

    Thought it was a good deal until I received it - it was dark and mud brown. So I thought I could crack it and "lighten" it with MS-70 and at least get a 64 again. Well, I got too aggressive with the MS-70, and it graded NGC MS61 :s:s

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    TennesseeDaveTennesseeDave Posts: 4,742 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've only ever cracked out and resubmitted coins that got details grades, so I've never gotten a downgrade.

    Trade $'s
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    MoparmonsterMoparmonster Posts: 135 ✭✭✭✭

    @mr1931S said:

    @Moparmonster said:
    VG8 to G details cleaned. Didn’t get burned though. Was able to sell it yesterday at a show raw for what I paid and was straight up honest with the guy and gave him the inserts.

    Makes one wonder if the grader actually looked at the coin before calling it an "8."


    Looks darn near like a properly graded 8 to me… Definitely better than a G. Go look at some other ones in G’s and VG holders

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