@estang said:
The TV ratings for Iowa - LSU were higher than all the World Series games and all but one of the NBA Finals games last year.
I would say Clark has been significantly more impactful in her sport than Maravich in his day. Her overall game is more well rounded, including superior team results.
Using their respective size/weight balls, I would take Clark over Maravich in a 3-point contest (in their college primes).
FWIW, I have always been a big fan of Maravich. I just think Clark has led a level of popularity that we haven't seen in college basketball in a very long time.
From golf, tennis, hockey, soccer, softball, volleyball - women's sports are often a very good watch. I do agree that basketball can at times be a tougher watch then men but in some respects the product is better played.
"I would say Clark has been significantly more impactful in her sport than Maravich in his day."
I agree with ya.
Caitlin Clark is becoming a household name. Maravich was never that.
Um. Did Maravich have Sportscenter, ESPN, Facebook, or X ?
The only reason the rematch had so many viewers is because of social media and the networks love a Magic-Bird or Clark-Reese matchup.
@estang said:
The TV ratings for Iowa - LSU were higher than all the World Series games and all but one of the NBA Finals games last year.
I would say Clark has been significantly more impactful in her sport than Maravich in his day. Her overall game is more well rounded, including superior team results.
Using their respective size/weight balls, I would take Clark over Maravich in a 3-point contest (in their college primes).
FWIW, I have always been a big fan of Maravich. I just think Clark has led a level of popularity that we haven't seen in college basketball in a very long time.
From golf, tennis, hockey, soccer, softball, volleyball - women's sports are often a very good watch. I do agree that basketball can at times be a tougher watch then men but in some respects the product is better played.
"I would say Clark has been significantly more impactful in her sport than Maravich in his day."
I agree with ya.
Caitlin Clark is becoming a household name. Maravich was never that.
Um. Did Maravich have Sportscenter, ESPN, Facebook, or X ?
It certainly was possible to be a household name prior to the things you mentioned. Those things definitely have helped awareness of Clark, no argument there.
The media outlets,including local newscasts, assisted immensely in the exposure. Will be interesting to see how much falloff in interest there will be next year without the Clark, Reese involvement.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
There's another rising phenom that has scored over 3,000 points in MN high school with another year remaining before she goes to college - likely IA - since her father went there. An ex-Viking Linebacker.
I think the women's game will continue to ascend, due in large part to the culture changing and there's simply greater continuity of 4-year players in the NCAA game that leads to building brand recognition. The one-and-done men's game has really hurt the college game...Just ask John Calipari at KY.
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
The media outlets,including local newscasts, assisted immensely in the exposure. Will be interesting to see how much falloff in interest there will be next year without the Clark, Reese involvement.
The late 1970’s NBA was a dead league until Larry Bird came along.
Once Clark leaves college no one will care again unless another great one like her emerges.
Womens sports has no great interest in our society.
About the only women's sport that had huge global stars is the one that had Serena Williams, Martina Navratilova, Chris Evert, Maria Sharapova, and Anna Kournikova. Just to name a few.
@coolstanley said:
About the only women's sport that had huge global stars is the one that had Serena Williams, Martina Navratilova, Chris Evert, Maria Sharapova, and Anna Kournikova. Just to name a few.
Correct.
Even still Serena Williams is worth 300 million. A teenager named Kylie Jenner is a billionaire.
Women care much more about beauty and very little about sports.
Women's tennis is way better to watch than men's tennis. That being said, I rarely watch either.
Some think that women's basketball has gotten better over the years, and perhaps it has. However I still find the game basically unwatchable. But then again, I don't watch the men's game either.
As far as women's basketball staying around. That debate is over with the advent of gambling on it. Of course it will be around. And frankly, especially on a high school and college level, it's always a winning idea to have as many students as possible participate in sports, any sport. As sports are not only good in a physical sense, but helps build good character as well. We certainly could use a lot more good character in today's American society.
man, those wnba attendance figures are dismal. it is true. Women, in general, are just not that interested in Sports. I wonder what percentage of those women who attend men's professional sports are just tagging along with husband/boyfriend? I bet it is significant.
@coolstanley said:
About the only women's sport that had huge global stars is the one that had Serena Williams, Martina Navratilova, Chris Evert, Maria Sharapova, and Anna Kournikova. Just to name a few.
Correct.
Even still Serena Williams is worth 300 million. A teenager named Kylie Jenner is a billionaire.
Not bad for Serena considering she hasn't won anything in seven years.
@coolstanley said:
About the only women's sport that had huge global stars is the one that had Serena Williams, Martina Navratilova, Chris Evert, Maria Sharapova, and Anna Kournikova. Just to name a few.
Correct.
Even still Serena Williams is worth 300 million. A teenager named Kylie Jenner is a billionaire.
Not bad for Serena considering she hasn't won anything in seven years.
10% in the S&P annually gets her $30 million a year if she’s invested.
Kylie is much younger and can earn 100 million a year in the market alone if she’s invested in the VOO.
I think that casting such a wide net onto women's sports is at best disingenuous and at worst... mean-spirited.
Women's professional basketball is a bad product... objectively. Women's college basketball isn't a bad product... objectively.
Way more people watch the Women's world cup than watch the NBA finals (for example).
1/3rd of NBA fans are women (from a viewership perspective). The idea that women who are NBA fans would switch to the WNBA was perhaps one of the most obvious fallacies in the argument of the creation of the WNBA. There are women who prefer to watch the NBA over the WNBA -- shocking! We call these people "basketball fans".
Perhaps we'll see more normalization in physical ability over time as more and more women play sports and there are more and more opportunities for careers in sports for women. Perhaps not.
Perhaps we'll see more changes in women's sports to make the games more appealing to a wider audience. As far as the attendance figures posted... A more compelling argument against the product is the number of viewers... with NBA games averaging almost 20x more viewers. Attendance is 2-3x lower for WNBA games than for NBA games with some cities doing really well and others doing really poorly. For example: comparing Seattle (WNBA) to Charlotte (NBA) it's not so obvious which team has the better fan-base. It took the NBA a long time to build their product so you will probably see WNBA teams with higher average attendance than some NBA teams within 10 years.
It may be true that world-wide women are less interested in sports [than men] (I presume). It may be true that in the US women are less interested in sports (again assuming a comparison to men). The NBA wasn't always the monetary slam dunk it is today, and the peak of the NBA from a viewership perspective, was during Jordan's career (after his return to the game in 95). Generational talents coming to the WNBA could do more for the sport than I think many expect.
I think Women's professional sports has a strong future in the world and in the US and I'm looking at the same stats without bias. The story these numbers tell is that women's sports participation, attendance, and viewership are growing at a rate much faster than the men's sports did. Much of this is based on technology and subsidy, but those facts are just... facts... no one said it had to be fair.
Elf beauty stock the last five years.
Caters to young girls. That young gymnast from LSU is rich because she’s beautiful. Girls are learning their value is in their looks, and I don’t think that’s a good thing at all.
@4Boston said:
The Womens World Cup has translated into horrible Womens professional soccer attendance.
Texas high school football makes that league look silly.
I don't understand the point you're trying to make regarding women's sports. Perhaps you're not even trying to make one... which is fair game. Out of curiosity though...
The market and monetization for the NWSL is orders of magnitude larger than Highschool boys football - Texan vicariousness notwithstanding.
The question was... Did Clark break Maravich's record?
No. They're not the same record and they're not in the same local context. The global context is Basketball. The logical context is NCAA Basketball. The functional context is career points. The local context is Mens NCAA Basketball or Women's NCAA Basketball. If it was the same record, what would it mean? Clark is better or had a better career?
We can compare or contrast and leverage them with perfect utility to make whatever point we want. I don't really know anyone who watches women's sports outside of the Olympics or the World Cup... and a couple of the guys I fly fish with who do watch women's tennis. How can we argue with the outcomes... participation, viewership, and investment is up YoY across the board. The WNBA, which, wow... it's just the worst... they are drawing more and more fans and investment. If you peer into the demographics you'll find that young women are the primary growth category...
It's not shocking that a U-15 Boys (FC Dallas 5-2) team defeated the USWNT. Those boys were bigger, stronger, faster. Or when Wrexham nuked them 12-0. Who was betting on the USWNT that was so surprised? Seriously.
Just because I don't understand why anyone would watch the WNBA or the USWNT doesn't mean that the market isn't growing and... that the players are getting better.
I don't think that Brown marmorated stink bug should exist either, but that pleasant fiction doesn't help me cause they're here.
That young gymnast from LSU is rich because she’s beautiful.
That applies to endorsements for men too, better looking people are easier to market.
Livy Dunne isnt rich just because shes beautiful. She may not be an Olympic level gymnast but she is very talented. The LSU womens team won the SEC championship which she was a part of and competing in.
Shes obviously very pretty, but she works hard, is talented, and was smart enough to take advantage of her chances to build a brand. Other gymnasts that are arguably more attractive have been rivals with her and no where near the same success for branding and NIL.
It takes a lot more than just being pretty to reach the NIL levels Dunne has
Thank you. I started listening and the play-by-play announcer sounded like Andy Musser (long-time Phillies announcer behind Harry Kalas). Sure enough, Musser did Knicks road games for a few years in the late 70s.
Most reported TV stories about the record are now articulating that it is the most points by a man or woman in college scoring. Going out of their way in stressing it. Don't recall when Pete had the record if they stressed his record was by a man or woman.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
Comments
Historical "what ifs" don't matter.
It certainly was possible to be a household name prior to the things you mentioned. Those things definitely have helped awareness of Clark, no argument there.
The media outlets,including local newscasts, assisted immensely in the exposure. Will be interesting to see how much falloff in interest there will be next year without the Clark, Reese involvement.
There's another rising phenom that has scored over 3,000 points in MN high school with another year remaining before she goes to college - likely IA - since her father went there. An ex-Viking Linebacker.
I think the women's game will continue to ascend, due in large part to the culture changing and there's simply greater continuity of 4-year players in the NCAA game that leads to building brand recognition. The one-and-done men's game has really hurt the college game...Just ask John Calipari at KY.
Erik
Anyone here who thinks Womens professional sports has any future…………..
USA Womens professional soccer league
Womens sports is useless, boring, and a joke compared to mens.
Having stated that, I think it’s great that girls love to play. I think it’s great for the fans who enjoy it.
The games are slow and boring.
16 year old boys beat the USA World Cup team 5-2.
All state high school basketball players would destroy the best NCAA girls all star team.
The late 1970’s NBA was a dead league until Larry Bird came along.
Once Clark leaves college no one will care again unless another great one like her emerges.
Womens sports has no great interest in our society.
About the only women's sport that had huge global stars is the one that had Serena Williams, Martina Navratilova, Chris Evert, Maria Sharapova, and Anna Kournikova. Just to name a few.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Women’s sports that draw interest are basically Tennis & Gymnastics come Olympics time.
The reasons why Tennis is such a notable exception are interesting to think about.
Correct.
Even still Serena Williams is worth 300 million. A teenager named Kylie Jenner is a billionaire.
Women care much more about beauty and very little about sports.
Women's tennis is way better to watch than men's tennis. That being said, I rarely watch either.
Some think that women's basketball has gotten better over the years, and perhaps it has. However I still find the game basically unwatchable. But then again, I don't watch the men's game either.
As far as women's basketball staying around. That debate is over with the advent of gambling on it. Of course it will be around. And frankly, especially on a high school and college level, it's always a winning idea to have as many students as possible participate in sports, any sport. As sports are not only good in a physical sense, but helps build good character as well. We certainly could use a lot more good character in today's American society.
man, those wnba attendance figures are dismal. it is true. Women, in general, are just not that interested in Sports. I wonder what percentage of those women who attend men's professional sports are just tagging along with husband/boyfriend? I bet it is significant.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
More people watch tennis during the four Grand Slams every year.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Not bad for Serena considering she hasn't won anything in seven years.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
10% in the S&P annually gets her $30 million a year if she’s invested.
Kylie is much younger and can earn 100 million a year in the market alone if she’s invested in the VOO.
Kylie Jenner is 26.
I think that casting such a wide net onto women's sports is at best disingenuous and at worst... mean-spirited.
Women's professional basketball is a bad product... objectively. Women's college basketball isn't a bad product... objectively.
Way more people watch the Women's world cup than watch the NBA finals (for example).
1/3rd of NBA fans are women (from a viewership perspective). The idea that women who are NBA fans would switch to the WNBA was perhaps one of the most obvious fallacies in the argument of the creation of the WNBA. There are women who prefer to watch the NBA over the WNBA -- shocking! We call these people "basketball fans".
Perhaps we'll see more normalization in physical ability over time as more and more women play sports and there are more and more opportunities for careers in sports for women. Perhaps not.
Perhaps we'll see more changes in women's sports to make the games more appealing to a wider audience. As far as the attendance figures posted... A more compelling argument against the product is the number of viewers... with NBA games averaging almost 20x more viewers. Attendance is 2-3x lower for WNBA games than for NBA games with some cities doing really well and others doing really poorly. For example: comparing Seattle (WNBA) to Charlotte (NBA) it's not so obvious which team has the better fan-base. It took the NBA a long time to build their product so you will probably see WNBA teams with higher average attendance than some NBA teams within 10 years.
It may be true that world-wide women are less interested in sports [than men] (I presume). It may be true that in the US women are less interested in sports (again assuming a comparison to men). The NBA wasn't always the monetary slam dunk it is today, and the peak of the NBA from a viewership perspective, was during Jordan's career (after his return to the game in 95). Generational talents coming to the WNBA could do more for the sport than I think many expect.
I think Women's professional sports has a strong future in the world and in the US and I'm looking at the same stats without bias. The story these numbers tell is that women's sports participation, attendance, and viewership are growing at a rate much faster than the men's sports did. Much of this is based on technology and subsidy, but those facts are just... facts... no one said it had to be fair.
The Womens World Cup has translated into horrible Womens professional soccer attendance.
Texas high school football makes that league look silly.
Elf beauty stock the last five years.
Caters to young girls. That young gymnast from LSU is rich because she’s beautiful. Girls are learning their value is in their looks, and I don’t think that’s a good thing at all.
38-0 South Carolina vs Iowa on Sunday.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
I don't understand the point you're trying to make regarding women's sports. Perhaps you're not even trying to make one... which is fair game. Out of curiosity though...
The market and monetization for the NWSL is orders of magnitude larger than Highschool boys football - Texan vicariousness notwithstanding.
The question was... Did Clark break Maravich's record?
No. They're not the same record and they're not in the same local context. The global context is Basketball. The logical context is NCAA Basketball. The functional context is career points. The local context is Mens NCAA Basketball or Women's NCAA Basketball. If it was the same record, what would it mean? Clark is better or had a better career?
We can compare or contrast and leverage them with perfect utility to make whatever point we want. I don't really know anyone who watches women's sports outside of the Olympics or the World Cup... and a couple of the guys I fly fish with who do watch women's tennis. How can we argue with the outcomes... participation, viewership, and investment is up YoY across the board. The WNBA, which, wow... it's just the worst... they are drawing more and more fans and investment. If you peer into the demographics you'll find that young women are the primary growth category...
It's not shocking that a U-15 Boys (FC Dallas 5-2) team defeated the USWNT. Those boys were bigger, stronger, faster. Or when Wrexham nuked them 12-0. Who was betting on the USWNT that was so surprised? Seriously.
Just because I don't understand why anyone would watch the WNBA or the USWNT doesn't mean that the market isn't growing and... that the players are getting better.
I don't think that Brown marmorated stink bug should exist either, but that pleasant fiction doesn't help me cause they're here.
@4Boston said:
That applies to endorsements for men too, better looking people are easier to market.
Livy Dunne isnt rich just because shes beautiful. She may not be an Olympic level gymnast but she is very talented. The LSU womens team won the SEC championship which she was a part of and competing in.
Shes obviously very pretty, but she works hard, is talented, and was smart enough to take advantage of her chances to build a brand. Other gymnasts that are arguably more attractive have been rivals with her and no where near the same success for branding and NIL.
It takes a lot more than just being pretty to reach the NIL levels Dunne has
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Thank you. I started listening and the play-by-play announcer sounded like Andy Musser (long-time Phillies announcer behind Harry Kalas). Sure enough, Musser did Knicks road games for a few years in the late 70s.
Most reported TV stories about the record are now articulating that it is the most points by a man or woman in college scoring. Going out of their way in stressing it. Don't recall when Pete had the record if they stressed his record was by a man or woman.