So youre arguing that only men can have an NCAA record even in one of two major sports (basketball and soccer) that have essentially the same rules outside of Olympic sports?
Cute. No, as I explicitly said, men can have men's records and women can have women's records. The idea that there is "a" record is a fiction. As with all of the related nonsense these days, you believe whatever you want to believe, but don't expect others to play along.
And to reiterate the point that you are desperate to avoid, the rule that men play against other men and women play against other women SWAMPS all of the other rules in its significance. To say that men's and women's basketball have "essentially the same rules" isn't just wrong it's fantastically wrong. Men and women are playing VERY different games.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
The only difference between men's,women's basketball I am aware of is the women's basketball is slightly smaller. Have no idea if this makes a difference in the grand scheme of the game/scoring record.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
So youre arguing that only men can have an NCAA record even in one of two major sports (basketball and soccer) that have essentially the same rules outside of Olympic sports?
Cute. No, as I explicitly said, men can have men's records and women can have women's records. The idea that there is "a" record is a fiction. As with all of the related nonsense these days, you believe whatever you want to believe, but don't expect others to play along.
And to reiterate the point that you are desperate to avoid, the rule that men play against other men and women play against other women SWAMPS all of the other rules in its significance. To say that men's and women's basketball have "essentially the same rules" isn't just wrong it's fantastically wrong. Men and women are playing VERY different games.
Agreed 100%
And I just noticed your sig line, very classy of you to do that 🍻
If you've never seen Pete Maravich play, I suggest you watch all the footage of him you can find, the documentaries, read the books, listen to the stories from teammates and people he played against, he was truly a phenom. Probably the greatest ball handler ever, he was a magician with the ball, behind the back passes, through the legs, full court underhand passes, he even passed the ball through his opponents legs one time, it was like the ball was a yo-yo attached to his hand and he could make it do whatever he wanted. He was also a well oiled scoring machine that could take a game over and put up 50 or 60+ if he chose to, and he could make any kind of shot from anywhere on the floor, circus shots, hook shots, fadeaways, pull up jumpers, long range, you name it, and he had beautiful shooting form. This is good stuff from Bill Walton.
add me to the list of people who didn't notice @dallasactuary 's sig line until now
a very nice touch my friend. knowing Eric as well as i did, i'm here to tell you that he would have been beyond thrilled to read that..........especially coming from you, someone he dubbed the czar of baseball knowledge
So youre arguing that only men can have an NCAA record even in one of two major sports (basketball and soccer) that have essentially the same rules outside of Olympic sports?
Cute. No, as I explicitly said, men can have men's records and women can have women's records. The idea that there is "a" record is a fiction. As with all of the related nonsense these days, you believe whatever you want to believe, but don't expect others to play along.
And to reiterate the point that you are desperate to avoid, the rule that men play against other men and women play against other women SWAMPS all of the other rules in its significance. To say that men's and women's basketball have "essentially the same rules" isn't just wrong it's fantastically wrong. Men and women are playing VERY different games.
Its just fantastically wrong to say that the Mens and Womens basketball game has very different rules. They have the same rules they just play differently. And yes in college which I know you probably dont pay attention too there are overall records in sports that are the same. This would be basketball, soccer, Olympic sports, and to some extent hockey. Hockey the rules are different enough with women not being allowed to check or take slapshots that you can ignore it. There is no womens baseball or football as of now. And yes there are big issues happening in womens sports I dont agree with that we cant talk about happening right now.
The simple fact is that Clark has scored more points than anyone in NCAA D1 history and has done so with more assists than any man and will finish top 3 in assists on a bad team as well.
Youre basically arguing that because the mens teams would beat womens teams then nothing they do matters. By that logic than nothing matters because the pro teams would beat the mens teams other than baseball and ice hockey.
Clark is getting the attention shes getting because of how insanely rare it is for the record to be a woman over the man and yes overall records are a very real thing in the NCAA its just that men have essentially all of them
Clark can get as much attention as she wants, and I don't begrudge her any of it. She now holds the women's scoring record - that's a big deal. But she does not hold "the" scoring record, because such a record doesn't exist. She holds the women's record and Maravich holds the men's record. And since the games they are playing aren't remotely similar, that's the only way reasonable people can view it.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@dallasactuary said:
Clark can get as much attention as she wants, and I don't begrudge her any of it. She now holds the women's scoring record - that's a big deal. But she does not hold "the" scoring record, because such a record doesn't exist. She holds the women's record and Maravich holds the men's record. And since the games they are playing aren't remotely similar, that's the only way reasonable people can view it.
You seem to be confused between rules of a game and style of play
if you ask who has the most points in NCAA history, it is Clark. If you ask who has the most in mens NCAA history it is Maravich. Again, if you ask who has the most points in NCAA history, fact is ,Clark.
@Basebal21 said:
You seem to be confused between rules of a game and style of play
One of us is confused, that's for sure.
It is a RULE of men's basketball that men play and it is a RULE of women's basketball that women play. Even if every other rule were identical, that one difference in rules makes the sport of men's basketball and the sport of women's basketball as different as flag football and football.
"Style of play" has nothing to do with anything which is why I haven't mentioned it and (until now) just ignore it when you mention it. You can stop mentioning it
if you ask who has the most points in NCAA history, it is Clark. If you ask who has the most in mens NCAA history it is Maravich. Again, if you ask who has the most points in NCAA history, fact is ,Clark.
If you asked me "who has the most points in NCAA history" I would ask you "in which sport?" Wouldn't you? If you answered "basketball", I would ask "men's or women's?" Until this recent woke explosion, you would have, too, since combining men's and women's basketball as if they had anything at all to do with each other had never occurred to anyone. To the best of my knowledge the NCAA (nor anyone else) has never maintained an official list of most points scored that combined the two distinct sports of men's basketball and women's basketball, and there is no reason why they should have or ever will.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@Basebal21 said:
You seem to be confused between rules of a game and style of play
One of us is confused, that's for sure.
It is a RULE of men's basketball that men play and it is a RULE of women's basketball that women play. Even if every other rule were identical, that one difference in rules makes the sport of men's basketball and the sport of women's basketball as different as flag football and football.
"Style of play" has nothing to do with anything which is why I haven't mentioned it and (until now) just ignore it when you mention it. You can stop mentioning i
So despite the fact that a woman played at the same level against her peers in a sport with basically the same rules it doesnt matter because it wasnt played in the mens divisions for all time records?
I'll ask again is your position that only players that play in the mens leagues can have all time records in the NCAA, yes or no
And I'll say again, for the fourth time?, that only men can hold men's records and only women can hold women's records. I am struggling to see how that statement can be misunderstood. You desperately want to convince me that there is an NCAA sport called "basketball" when in fact the NCAA has two distinct sports called "men's basketball" and "women's basketball", each with their own distinct records and record books. There is no "NCAA basketball", there is no record book for "NCAA basketball" and you will never be able to convince me of something that is so obviously and demonstrably false. Clearly, that won't stop you from trying, but your efforts are doomed.
And no matter how often you keep repeating the statement that men's basketball and women's basketball have "essentially the same rules", it will forever remain a fiction. If the NCAA decided to sponsor a new sport where each basketball team got to have one man over 6' 6" on the roster and all the other players had to be women less than five feet tall, you can bet that the men on those teams would shatter the "basketball" scoring records in the NCAA, playing with "essentially the same rules". But why would any sane person think those men had done something in any way "better" than Maravich or Clark? Who you play against is set by rules, and when those differ you have different sports.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@pdoidoi said:
If you were on a game show and the question was who has the most points in NCAA basketball history you would lose if you said Maravich.
Truth. Unfortunately some people just dont seem to pay attention to college sports and seem pretty dead set that only mens leagues can have the all time record despite the vast majority of NCAA sports having one like basketball, gymnastics, track and field, swimming and so on. if they want to be obsessed with the whole if a man played against them thing and cannot understand competition vs competition of peers oh well, youre absolutely correct about the question
@pdoidoi said:
If you were on a game show and the question was who has the most points in NCAA basketball history you would lose if you said Maravich.
Truth. Unfortunately some people just dont seem to pay attention to college sports and seem pretty dead set that only mens leagues can have the all time record despite the vast majority of NCAA sports having one like basketball, gymnastics, track and field, swimming and so on. if they want to be obsessed with the whole if a man played against them thing and cannot understand competition vs competition of peers oh well, youre absolutely correct about the question
Truth. Unfortunately some people just dont seem to pay attention to college sports and seem pretty dead set that only mens leagues can have the all time record despite the vast majority of NCAA sports having one like basketball, gymnastics, track and field, swimming and so on. if they want to be obsessed with the whole if a man played against them thing and cannot understand competition vs competition of peers oh well, youre absolutely correct about the question
Your high horse is so high that you can't hear a single thing I say. Or you can hear me but just don't understand. For the fifth, and last, time: NCAA "basketball" has two separate sets of records, one for men's basketball and one for women's basketball. Maravich has one record, Clark has a different record. If you still don't get it I'll find a five year old to explain it to you.
And by the way, who won the NCAA basketball title last year?
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
let's face it, this is just another insufferable teaspoon of woke medicine being rammed down our throats
a decade ago we wouldn't have even thought of having this type of comparative discussion
someone would have said hey Caitlin Clark broke Pistol Pete's record and she's the greatest, that individual would have been bombarded with "that's implicitly retarded," and we would have gone about our lives in less than half a minute
Truth. Unfortunately some people just dont seem to pay attention to college sports and seem pretty dead set that only mens leagues can have the all time record despite the vast majority of NCAA sports having one like basketball, gymnastics, track and field, swimming and so on. if they want to be obsessed with the whole if a man played against them thing and cannot understand competition vs competition of peers oh well, youre absolutely correct about the question
Your high horse is so high that you can't hear a single thing I say. Or you can hear me but just don't understand. For the fifth, and last, time: NCAA "basketball" has two separate sets of records, one for men's basketball and one for women's basketball. Maravich has one record, Clark has a different record. If you still don't get it I'll find a five year old to explain it to you.
And by the way, who won the NCAA basketball title last year?
@galaxy27 said:
let's face it, this is just another insufferable teaspoon of woke medicine being rammed down our throats
a decade ago we wouldn't have even thought of having this type of comparative discussion
someone would have said hey Caitlin Clark broke Pistol Pete's record and she's the greatest, that individual would have been bombarded with "that's implicitly retarded," and we would have gone about our lives in less than half a minute
Out of all the things happening in women's college sports this really isnt a woke conversation. Those are happening in courts currently.
Its not any different than if a woman sprinter set the record for a time. Its extremely rare for a woman to have a record in the same sport as a man which is why theres attention to it.
Clarke has had a better collegiate basketball career than Pete which is all the record discussion is about . What Pete did in the NBA or would do head to head isnt relevant
@galaxy27 said:
let's face it, this is just another insufferable teaspoon of woke medicine being rammed down our throats
a decade ago we wouldn't have even thought of having this type of comparative discussion
someone would have said hey Caitlin Clark broke Pistol Pete's record and she's the greatest, that individual would have been bombarded with "that's implicitly retarded," and we would have gone about our lives in less than half a minute
Out of all the things happening in women's college sports this really isnt a woke conversation. Those are happening in courts currently.
Its not any different than if a woman sprinter set the record for a time. Its extremely rare for a woman to have a record in the same sport as a man which is why theres attention to it.
Clarke has had a better collegiate basketball career than Pete which is all the record discussion is about . What Pete did in the NBA or would do head to head isnt relevant
are you kidding? Maravich averaged over 44 points per game for his college career before the 3 point line and before the shot clock.
@galaxy27 said:
let's face it, this is just another insufferable teaspoon of woke medicine being rammed down our throats
a decade ago we wouldn't have even thought of having this type of comparative discussion
someone would have said hey Caitlin Clark broke Pistol Pete's record and she's the greatest, that individual would have been bombarded with "that's implicitly retarded," and we would have gone about our lives in less than half a minute
Out of all the things happening in women's college sports this really isnt a woke conversation. Those are happening in courts currently.
Its not any different than if a woman sprinter set the record for a time. Its extremely rare for a woman to have a record in the same sport as a man which is why theres attention to it.
Clarke has had a better collegiate basketball career than Pete which is all the record discussion is about . What Pete did in the NBA or would do head to head isnt relevant
are you kidding? Maravich averaged over 44 points per game for his college career before the 3 point line and before the shot clock.
Clarke has more than double his assists, more points, a better shooting percentage, just about double his rebounds, a higher free throw make percentage and so on. All of her collegiate stats are better than anyone else whether a man or a woman.
@galaxy27 said:
let's face it, this is just another insufferable teaspoon of woke medicine being rammed down our throats
a decade ago we wouldn't have even thought of having this type of comparative discussion
someone would have said hey Caitlin Clark broke Pistol Pete's record and she's the greatest, that individual would have been bombarded with "that's implicitly retarded," and we would have gone about our lives in less than half a minute
Out of all the things happening in women's college sports this really isnt a woke conversation. Those are happening in courts currently.
Its not any different than if a woman sprinter set the record for a time. Its extremely rare for a woman to have a record in the same sport as a man which is why theres attention to it.
Clarke has had a better collegiate basketball career than Pete which is all the record discussion is about . What Pete did in the NBA or would do head to head isnt relevant
are you kidding? Maravich averaged over 44 points per game for his college career before the 3 point line and before the shot clock.
Clarke has more than double his assists, more points, a better shooting percentage, just about double his rebounds, a higher free throw make percentage and so on. All of her collegiate stats are better than anyone else whether a man or a woman.
come on now. she has played 40% more games. on a per game basis, it is pete. all pete. she averages a couple more assists and rebounds a game. pete averaged over 44 points per game.
44 points per game. before the 3 point line. before the shot clock
@galaxy27 said:
let's face it, this is just another insufferable teaspoon of woke medicine being rammed down our throats
a decade ago we wouldn't have even thought of having this type of comparative discussion
someone would have said hey Caitlin Clark broke Pistol Pete's record and she's the greatest, that individual would have been bombarded with "that's implicitly retarded," and we would have gone about our lives in less than half a minute
Out of all the things happening in women's college sports this really isnt a woke conversation. Those are happening in courts currently.
Its not any different than if a woman sprinter set the record for a time. Its extremely rare for a woman to have a record in the same sport as a man which is why theres attention to it.
Clarke has had a better collegiate basketball career than Pete which is all the record discussion is about . What Pete did in the NBA or would do head to head isnt relevant
are you kidding? Maravich averaged over 44 points per game for his college career before the 3 point line and before the shot clock.
Clarke has more than double his assists, more points, a better shooting percentage, just about double his rebounds, a higher free throw make percentage and so on. All of her collegiate stats are better than anyone else whether a man or a woman.
come on now. she has played 40% more games. on a per game basis, it is pete. all pete. she averages a couple more assists and rebounds a game. pete averaged over 44 points per game.
44 points per game. before the 3 point line. before the shot clock
You can deduct the extra points from her threes and that is more than made up for her double assists.
@galaxy27 said:
let's face it, this is just another insufferable teaspoon of woke medicine being rammed down our throats
a decade ago we wouldn't have even thought of having this type of comparative discussion
someone would have said hey Caitlin Clark broke Pistol Pete's record and she's the greatest, that individual would have been bombarded with "that's implicitly retarded," and we would have gone about our lives in less than half a minute
Out of all the things happening in women's college sports this really isnt a woke conversation. Those are happening in courts currently.
Its not any different than if a woman sprinter set the record for a time. Its extremely rare for a woman to have a record in the same sport as a man which is why theres attention to it.
Clarke has had a better collegiate basketball career than Pete which is all the record discussion is about . What Pete did in the NBA or would do head to head isnt relevant
are you kidding? Maravich averaged over 44 points per game for his college career before the 3 point line and before the shot clock.
Clarke has more than double his assists, more points, a better shooting percentage, just about double his rebounds, a higher free throw make percentage and so on. All of her collegiate stats are better than anyone else whether a man or a woman.
come on now. she has played 40% more games. on a per game basis, it is pete. all pete. she averages a couple more assists and rebounds a game. pete averaged over 44 points per game.
44 points per game. before the 3 point line. before the shot clock
You can deduct the extra points from her threes and that is more than made up for her double assists.
but she didnt average double the assists. he averaged 5 she averaged 8. that is 6 points per game if we dont count 3s. she averages 4 threes a game so that is 4 points deducted from her 28 point per game average so yes, pete comes out on top.
@galaxy27 said:
let's face it, this is just another insufferable teaspoon of woke medicine being rammed down our throats
a decade ago we wouldn't have even thought of having this type of comparative discussion
someone would have said hey Caitlin Clark broke Pistol Pete's record and she's the greatest, that individual would have been bombarded with "that's implicitly retarded," and we would have gone about our lives in less than half a minute
Out of all the things happening in women's college sports this really isnt a woke conversation. Those are happening in courts currently.
Its not any different than if a woman sprinter set the record for a time. Its extremely rare for a woman to have a record in the same sport as a man which is why theres attention to it.
Clarke has had a better collegiate basketball career than Pete which is all the record discussion is about . What Pete did in the NBA or would do head to head isnt relevant
are you kidding? Maravich averaged over 44 points per game for his college career before the 3 point line and before the shot clock.
Clarke has more than double his assists, more points, a better shooting percentage, just about double his rebounds, a higher free throw make percentage and so on. All of her collegiate stats are better than anyone else whether a man or a woman.
come on now. she has played 40% more games. on a per game basis, it is pete. all pete. she averages a couple more assists and rebounds a game. pete averaged over 44 points per game.
44 points per game. before the 3 point line. before the shot clock
You can deduct the extra points from her threes and that is more than made up for her double assists.
but she didnt average double the assists. he averaged 5 she averaged 8. that is 6 points per game if we dont count 3s. she averages 4 threes a game so that is 4 points deducted from her 28 point per game average so yes, pete comes out on top.
5 and 8 would be a 6 point difference not including 3s which would minus 4 points a game meaning shes still plus 2 for points accounted for removing the 3 s
She played as a freshman he didnt. She also didnt get the tournament her freshman year because of covid rules. It really doesnt matter if she played more games or not, you cannot have an impact on a collegiate game if you arent playing in it.
If were just going by what could have happened for people that didnt start or left early for the NBA than the leader would be someone like Lebron who skipped college. You have to be in college to be the best collegiate player
@galaxy27 said:
let's face it, this is just another insufferable teaspoon of woke medicine being rammed down our throats
a decade ago we wouldn't have even thought of having this type of comparative discussion
someone would have said hey Caitlin Clark broke Pistol Pete's record and she's the greatest, that individual would have been bombarded with "that's implicitly retarded," and we would have gone about our lives in less than half a minute
Out of all the things happening in women's college sports this really isnt a woke conversation. Those are happening in courts currently.
Its not any different than if a woman sprinter set the record for a time. Its extremely rare for a woman to have a record in the same sport as a man which is why theres attention to it.
Clarke has had a better collegiate basketball career than Pete which is all the record discussion is about . What Pete did in the NBA or would do head to head isnt relevant
are you kidding? Maravich averaged over 44 points per game for his college career before the 3 point line and before the shot clock.
Clarke has more than double his assists, more points, a better shooting percentage, just about double his rebounds, a higher free throw make percentage and so on. All of her collegiate stats are better than anyone else whether a man or a woman.
come on now. she has played 40% more games. on a per game basis, it is pete. all pete. she averages a couple more assists and rebounds a game. pete averaged over 44 points per game.
44 points per game. before the 3 point line. before the shot clock
You can deduct the extra points from her threes and that is more than made up for her double assists.
but she didnt average double the assists. he averaged 5 she averaged 8. that is 6 points per game if we dont count 3s. she averages 4 threes a game so that is 4 points deducted from her 28 point per game average so yes, pete comes out on top.
5 and 8 would be a 6 point difference not including 3s which would minus 4 points a game meaning shes still plus 2 for points accounted for removing the 3 s
She played as a freshman he didnt. She also didnt get the tournament her freshman year because of covid rules. It really doesnt matter if she played more games or not, you cannot have an impact on a collegiate game if you arent playing in it.
If were just going by what could have happened for people that didnt start or left early for the NBA than the leader would be someone like Lebron who skipped college. You have to be in college to be the best collegiate player
Maravich was literally not allowed to play during his freshman year. it is not as if he was missing time due to injury.
of course it matters that she played more games. He wasnt allowed to.
I'm thinking that this was about the time that it got through to you that trying to have an argument about whether an apple is more appleier than an orange is orangier with someone who thinks the argument is about two apples leads to nothing but frustration.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@galaxy27 said:
let's face it, this is just another insufferable teaspoon of woke medicine being rammed down our throats
a decade ago we wouldn't have even thought of having this type of comparative discussion
someone would have said hey Caitlin Clark broke Pistol Pete's record and she's the greatest, that individual would have been bombarded with "that's implicitly retarded," and we would have gone about our lives in less than half a minute
Out of all the things happening in women's college sports this really isnt a woke conversation. Those are happening in courts currently.
Its not any different than if a woman sprinter set the record for a time. Its extremely rare for a woman to have a record in the same sport as a man which is why theres attention to it.
Clarke has had a better collegiate basketball career than Pete which is all the record discussion is about . What Pete did in the NBA or would do head to head isnt relevant
are you kidding? Maravich averaged over 44 points per game for his college career before the 3 point line and before the shot clock.
Clarke has more than double his assists, more points, a better shooting percentage, just about double his rebounds, a higher free throw make percentage and so on. All of her collegiate stats are better than anyone else whether a man or a woman.
come on now. she has played 40% more games. on a per game basis, it is pete. all pete. she averages a couple more assists and rebounds a game. pete averaged over 44 points per game.
44 points per game. before the 3 point line. before the shot clock
You can deduct the extra points from her threes and that is more than made up for her double assists.
but she didnt average double the assists. he averaged 5 she averaged 8. that is 6 points per game if we dont count 3s. she averages 4 threes a game so that is 4 points deducted from her 28 point per game average so yes, pete comes out on top.
5 and 8 would be a 6 point difference not including 3s which would minus 4 points a game meaning shes still plus 2 for points accounted for removing the 3 s
She played as a freshman he didnt. She also didnt get the tournament her freshman year because of covid rules. It really doesnt matter if she played more games or not, you cannot have an impact on a collegiate game if you arent playing in it.
If were just going by what could have happened for people that didnt start or left early for the NBA than the leader would be someone like Lebron who skipped college. You have to be in college to be the best collegiate player
Maravich was literally not allowed to play during his freshman year. it is not as if he was missing time due to injury.
of course it matters that she played more games. He wasnt allowed to.
my goodness...
No it does not matter that she played in more games for collegiate sports. Its not a points per game record
I'm thinking that this was about the time that it got through to you that trying to have an argument about whether an apple is more appleier than an orange is orangier with someone who thinks the argument is about two apples leads to nothing but frustration.
yes. you hit the nail on the head dallas. read his latest comment. ugh.
@galaxy27 said:
let's face it, this is just another insufferable teaspoon of woke medicine being rammed down our throats
a decade ago we wouldn't have even thought of having this type of comparative discussion
someone would have said hey Caitlin Clark broke Pistol Pete's record and she's the greatest, that individual would have been bombarded with "that's implicitly retarded," and we would have gone about our lives in less than half a minute
Out of all the things happening in women's college sports this really isnt a woke conversation. Those are happening in courts currently.
Its not any different than if a woman sprinter set the record for a time. Its extremely rare for a woman to have a record in the same sport as a man which is why theres attention to it.
Clarke has had a better collegiate basketball career than Pete which is all the record discussion is about . What Pete did in the NBA or would do head to head isnt relevant
are you kidding? Maravich averaged over 44 points per game for his college career before the 3 point line and before the shot clock.
Clarke has more than double his assists, more points, a better shooting percentage, just about double his rebounds, a higher free throw make percentage and so on. All of her collegiate stats are better than anyone else whether a man or a woman.
come on now. she has played 40% more games. on a per game basis, it is pete. all pete. she averages a couple more assists and rebounds a game. pete averaged over 44 points per game.
44 points per game. before the 3 point line. before the shot clock
You can deduct the extra points from her threes and that is more than made up for her double assists.
but she didnt average double the assists. he averaged 5 she averaged 8. that is 6 points per game if we dont count 3s. she averages 4 threes a game so that is 4 points deducted from her 28 point per game average so yes, pete comes out on top.
5 and 8 would be a 6 point difference not including 3s which would minus 4 points a game meaning shes still plus 2 for points accounted for removing the 3 s
She played as a freshman he didnt. She also didnt get the tournament her freshman year because of covid rules. It really doesnt matter if she played more games or not, you cannot have an impact on a collegiate game if you arent playing in it.
If were just going by what could have happened for people that didnt start or left early for the NBA than the leader would be someone like Lebron who skipped college. You have to be in college to be the best collegiate player
Maravich was literally not allowed to play during his freshman year. it is not as if he was missing time due to injury.
of course it matters that she played more games. He wasnt allowed to.
my goodness...
No it does not matter that she played in more games for collegiate sports. Its not a points per game record
I really do not think you have a solid understanding of this discussion.
Truth. Unfortunately some people just dont seem to pay attention to college sports and seem pretty dead set that only mens leagues can have the all time record despite the vast majority of NCAA sports having one like basketball, gymnastics, track and field, swimming and so on. if they want to be obsessed with the whole if a man played against them thing and cannot understand competition vs competition of peers oh well, youre absolutely correct about the question
Your high horse is so high that you can't hear a single thing I say. Or you can hear me but just don't understand. For the fifth, and last, time: NCAA "basketball" has two separate sets of records, one for men's basketball and one for women's basketball. Maravich has one record, Clark has a different record. If you still don't get it I'll find a five year old to explain it to you.
And by the way, who won the NCAA basketball title last year?
Men or women ?
Exactly. Two separate leagues. Two separate records.
If I said that Alex McPherson had a higher NCAA Field Goal percentage than Clark last year, that would be as true a statement in saying "Clark Scored more points than Maravich", and it would also be about the same level of comparison as comparing Clark to Maravich.
You see, McPherson was a kicker for Auburn with a 100% Field Goal percentage and his league was about as different from Clark's as Clark's was from Maravich's making both comparisons completely silly.
Pete played against the best players in college. Pete played against the absolute best players in the world in the NBA. Clark played against players who played like a bunch of girls. If she skips the WNBA and goes to the NBA I will be impressed.
Pete played against the best players in college. Pete played against the absolute best players in the world in the NBA. Clark played against players who played like a bunch of girls. If she skips the WNBA and goes to the NBA I will be impressed.
@stevek said:
No offense to anyone, but women's basketball is painful to watch.
On a school level, it's fine because of the athletic rivalry between schools, which in my view, student athletics in general leads to becoming better adults. The students overall enjoy watching and supporting it for reasons such as loyalty to their school which is a good thing.
However women's basketball on a professional level really is preposterous. Watching a woman trying to shoot a three, is like watching someone with Parkinson's disease trying to thread a needle.
We go to the WNBA games here in Vegas and find it to be great basketball. Great fundamentals, passing, defense, etc.... The three pointers are not as you describe from what I have seen. Plus, the fans are really into it. Great time!
It is all in how it is asked.
If you asked who has the most points in NCAA BASKETBALL MENS then it is Maravich.
If you ask who has the most points in NCAA Women's then it is Clark.
But if you only ask who has the most points in NCAA history the true answer is Clark.
( It is all in how it is worded. )
Just found on line from nbc news ( NBC NEWS )
Iowa's Caitlin Clark breaks Pistol Pete Maravich'sNCAA Division i scoring record.
CBS and many others also posted the very same .
Is NBC and CBS and many others wrong.
CHECK MATE, CASE CLOSED, or you guys can keep arguing . I sit on the sidelines laughing at you guys going back and forth for the next 6 months.
@stevek said:
No offense to anyone, but women's basketball is painful to watch.
On a school level, it's fine because of the athletic rivalry between schools, which in my view, student athletics in general leads to becoming better adults. The students overall enjoy watching and supporting it for reasons such as loyalty to their school which is a good thing.
However women's basketball on a professional level really is preposterous. Watching a woman trying to shoot a three, is like watching someone with Parkinson's disease trying to thread a needle.
We go to the WNBA games here in Vegas and find it to be great basketball. Great fundamentals, passing, defense, etc.... The three pointers are not as you describe from what I have seen. Plus, the fans are really into it. Great time!
Lemme guess - When getting home from the game, after walking the miniature poodle, you tune-in to watch the latest reruns of "Friends" and "Mad about You." 😉
Interesting fact, Maravich scored 50+points in a game 28 times in college, he scored 60+ points in four games in college, the man could take a game over and there was little to nothing you could do to stop him when he went off. I love this shot by shot footage of the night he torched the Knicks for 68 in the NBA.
@stevek said:
No offense to anyone, but women's basketball is painful to watch.
On a school level, it's fine because of the athletic rivalry between schools, which in my view, student athletics in general leads to becoming better adults. The students overall enjoy watching and supporting it for reasons such as loyalty to their school which is a good thing.
However women's basketball on a professional level really is preposterous. Watching a woman trying to shoot a three, is like watching someone with Parkinson's disease trying to thread a needle.
We go to the WNBA games here in Vegas and find it to be great basketball. Great fundamentals, passing, defense, etc.... The three pointers are not as you describe from what I have seen. Plus, the fans are really into it. Great time!
Lemme guess - When getting home from the game, after walking the miniature poodle, you tune-in to watch the latest reruns of "Friends" and "Mad about You." 😉
@stevek said:
No offense to anyone, but women's basketball is painful to watch.
On a school level, it's fine because of the athletic rivalry between schools, which in my view, student athletics in general leads to becoming better adults. The students overall enjoy watching and supporting it for reasons such as loyalty to their school which is a good thing.
However women's basketball on a professional level really is preposterous. Watching a woman trying to shoot a three, is like watching someone with Parkinson's disease trying to thread a needle.
We go to the WNBA games here in Vegas and find it to be great basketball. Great fundamentals, passing, defense, etc.... The three pointers are not as you describe from what I have seen. Plus, the fans are really into it. Great time!
Lemme guess - When getting home from the game, after walking the miniature poodle, you tune-in to watch the latest reruns of "Friends" and "Mad about You." 😉
I want to see the WNBA all star team take on Montverde Academy before I pick a side.
I bet Maravich would have enjoyed having twice as many possessions per game with the present day shot clock.
Other than that I guess it’s nice to bring attention to the women’s game but it’s not a direct comparison of these collegiate careers irrespective of the simple point total. This is one of those cases, I think, where everyone is right, but none of it matters.
The TV ratings for Iowa - LSU were higher than all the World Series games and all but one of the NBA Finals games last year.
I would say Clark has been significantly more impactful in her sport than Maravich in his day. Her overall game is more well rounded, including superior team results.
Using their respective size/weight balls, I would take Clark over Maravich in a 3-point contest (in their college primes).
FWIW, I have always been a big fan of Maravich. I just think Clark has led a level of popularity that we haven't seen in college basketball in a very long time.
From golf, tennis, hockey, soccer, softball, volleyball - women's sports are often a very good watch. I do agree that basketball can at times be a tougher watch than a typical men's game but in some respects the product is better played.
@estang said:
The TV ratings for Iowa - LSU were higher than all the World Series games and all but one of the NBA Finals games last year.
I would say Clark has been significantly more impactful in her sport than Maravich in his day. Her overall game is more well rounded, including superior team results.
Using their respective size/weight balls, I would take Clark over Maravich in a 3-point contest (in their college primes).
FWIW, I have always been a big fan of Maravich. I just think Clark has led a level of popularity that we haven't seen in college basketball in a very long time.
From golf, tennis, hockey, soccer, softball, volleyball - women's sports are often a very good watch. I do agree that basketball can at times be a tougher watch then men but in some respects the product is better played.
"I would say Clark has been significantly more impactful in her sport than Maravich in his day."
I agree with ya.
Caitlin Clark is becoming a household name. Maravich was never that.
@estang said:
The TV ratings for Iowa - LSU were higher than all the World Series games and all but one of the NBA Finals games last year.
I would say Clark has been significantly more impactful in her sport than Maravich in his day. Her overall game is more well rounded, including superior team results.
Using their respective size/weight balls, I would take Clark over Maravich in a 3-point contest (in their college primes).
FWIW, I have always been a big fan of Maravich. I just think Clark has led a level of popularity that we haven't seen in college basketball in a very long time.
From golf, tennis, hockey, soccer, softball, volleyball - women's sports are often a very good watch. I do agree that basketball can at times be a tougher watch then men but in some respects the product is better played.
"I would say Clark has been significantly more impactful in her sport than Maravich in his day."
I agree with ya.
Caitlin Clark is becoming a household name. Maravich was never that.
Um. Did Maravich have Sportscenter, ESPN, Facebook, or X ?
The only reason the rematch had so many viewers is because of social media and the networks love a Magic-Bird or Clark-Reese matchup.
Comments
Cute. No, as I explicitly said, men can have men's records and women can have women's records. The idea that there is "a" record is a fiction. As with all of the related nonsense these days, you believe whatever you want to believe, but don't expect others to play along.
And to reiterate the point that you are desperate to avoid, the rule that men play against other men and women play against other women SWAMPS all of the other rules in its significance. To say that men's and women's basketball have "essentially the same rules" isn't just wrong it's fantastically wrong. Men and women are playing VERY different games.
In 1986 I was the best lead off hitter in my slow pitch softball league.
That makes me better than Rickey Henderson.
The only difference between men's,women's basketball I am aware of is the women's basketball is slightly smaller. Have no idea if this makes a difference in the grand scheme of the game/scoring record.
Agreed 100%
And I just noticed your sig line, very classy of you to do that 🍻
And in 2004 I hit 50 HR's in my slowpich softball league and that means I'm a better HR hitter than a ton of major leaguers!!!!!
If you've never seen Pete Maravich play, I suggest you watch all the footage of him you can find, the documentaries, read the books, listen to the stories from teammates and people he played against, he was truly a phenom. Probably the greatest ball handler ever, he was a magician with the ball, behind the back passes, through the legs, full court underhand passes, he even passed the ball through his opponents legs one time, it was like the ball was a yo-yo attached to his hand and he could make it do whatever he wanted. He was also a well oiled scoring machine that could take a game over and put up 50 or 60+ if he chose to, and he could make any kind of shot from anywhere on the floor, circus shots, hook shots, fadeaways, pull up jumpers, long range, you name it, and he had beautiful shooting form. This is good stuff from Bill Walton.
add me to the list of people who didn't notice @dallasactuary 's sig line until now
a very nice touch my friend. knowing Eric as well as i did, i'm here to tell you that he would have been beyond thrilled to read that..........especially coming from you, someone he dubbed the czar of baseball knowledge
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Its just fantastically wrong to say that the Mens and Womens basketball game has very different rules. They have the same rules they just play differently. And yes in college which I know you probably dont pay attention too there are overall records in sports that are the same. This would be basketball, soccer, Olympic sports, and to some extent hockey. Hockey the rules are different enough with women not being allowed to check or take slapshots that you can ignore it. There is no womens baseball or football as of now. And yes there are big issues happening in womens sports I dont agree with that we cant talk about happening right now.
The simple fact is that Clark has scored more points than anyone in NCAA D1 history and has done so with more assists than any man and will finish top 3 in assists on a bad team as well.
Youre basically arguing that because the mens teams would beat womens teams then nothing they do matters. By that logic than nothing matters because the pro teams would beat the mens teams other than baseball and ice hockey.
Clark is getting the attention shes getting because of how insanely rare it is for the record to be a woman over the man and yes overall records are a very real thing in the NCAA its just that men have essentially all of them
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Clark can get as much attention as she wants, and I don't begrudge her any of it. She now holds the women's scoring record - that's a big deal. But she does not hold "the" scoring record, because such a record doesn't exist. She holds the women's record and Maravich holds the men's record. And since the games they are playing aren't remotely similar, that's the only way reasonable people can view it.
You seem to be confused between rules of a game and style of play
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
if you ask who has the most points in NCAA history, it is Clark. If you ask who has the most in mens NCAA history it is Maravich. Again, if you ask who has the most points in NCAA history, fact is ,Clark.
One of us is confused, that's for sure.
It is a RULE of men's basketball that men play and it is a RULE of women's basketball that women play. Even if every other rule were identical, that one difference in rules makes the sport of men's basketball and the sport of women's basketball as different as flag football and football.
"Style of play" has nothing to do with anything which is why I haven't mentioned it and (until now) just ignore it when you mention it. You can stop mentioning it
.> @pdoidoi said:
If you asked me "who has the most points in NCAA history" I would ask you "in which sport?" Wouldn't you? If you answered "basketball", I would ask "men's or women's?" Until this recent woke explosion, you would have, too, since combining men's and women's basketball as if they had anything at all to do with each other had never occurred to anyone. To the best of my knowledge the NCAA (nor anyone else) has never maintained an official list of most points scored that combined the two distinct sports of men's basketball and women's basketball, and there is no reason why they should have or ever will.
So despite the fact that a woman played at the same level against her peers in a sport with basically the same rules it doesnt matter because it wasnt played in the mens divisions for all time records?
I'll ask again is your position that only players that play in the mens leagues can have all time records in the NCAA, yes or no
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
And I'll say again, for the fourth time?, that only men can hold men's records and only women can hold women's records. I am struggling to see how that statement can be misunderstood. You desperately want to convince me that there is an NCAA sport called "basketball" when in fact the NCAA has two distinct sports called "men's basketball" and "women's basketball", each with their own distinct records and record books. There is no "NCAA basketball", there is no record book for "NCAA basketball" and you will never be able to convince me of something that is so obviously and demonstrably false. Clearly, that won't stop you from trying, but your efforts are doomed.
And no matter how often you keep repeating the statement that men's basketball and women's basketball have "essentially the same rules", it will forever remain a fiction. If the NCAA decided to sponsor a new sport where each basketball team got to have one man over 6' 6" on the roster and all the other players had to be women less than five feet tall, you can bet that the men on those teams would shatter the "basketball" scoring records in the NCAA, playing with "essentially the same rules". But why would any sane person think those men had done something in any way "better" than Maravich or Clark? Who you play against is set by rules, and when those differ you have different sports.
If you were on a game show and the question was who has the most points in NCAA basketball history you would lose if you said Maravich.
Truth. Unfortunately some people just dont seem to pay attention to college sports and seem pretty dead set that only mens leagues can have the all time record despite the vast majority of NCAA sports having one like basketball, gymnastics, track and field, swimming and so on. if they want to be obsessed with the whole if a man played against them thing and cannot understand competition vs competition of peers oh well, youre absolutely correct about the question
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Who won the NCAA basketball title last year?
Who won the NCAA basketball title last year?
for the win.
game, set, match. I think you just settled the argument with a very simple sentence!!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Your high horse is so high that you can't hear a single thing I say. Or you can hear me but just don't understand. For the fifth, and last, time: NCAA "basketball" has two separate sets of records, one for men's basketball and one for women's basketball. Maravich has one record, Clark has a different record. If you still don't get it I'll find a five year old to explain it to you.
And by the way, who won the NCAA basketball title last year?
let's face it, this is just another insufferable teaspoon of woke medicine being rammed down our throats
a decade ago we wouldn't have even thought of having this type of comparative discussion
someone would have said hey Caitlin Clark broke Pistol Pete's record and she's the greatest, that individual would have been bombarded with "that's implicitly retarded," and we would have gone about our lives in less than half a minute
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Men or women ?
Out of all the things happening in women's college sports this really isnt a woke conversation. Those are happening in courts currently.
Its not any different than if a woman sprinter set the record for a time. Its extremely rare for a woman to have a record in the same sport as a man which is why theres attention to it.
Clarke has had a better collegiate basketball career than Pete which is all the record discussion is about . What Pete did in the NBA or would do head to head isnt relevant
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
are you kidding? Maravich averaged over 44 points per game for his college career before the 3 point line and before the shot clock.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Clarke has more than double his assists, more points, a better shooting percentage, just about double his rebounds, a higher free throw make percentage and so on. All of her collegiate stats are better than anyone else whether a man or a woman.
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
come on now. she has played 40% more games. on a per game basis, it is pete. all pete. she averages a couple more assists and rebounds a game. pete averaged over 44 points per game.
44 points per game. before the 3 point line. before the shot clock
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
You can deduct the extra points from her threes and that is more than made up for her double assists.
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
but she didnt average double the assists. he averaged 5 she averaged 8. that is 6 points per game if we dont count 3s. she averages 4 threes a game so that is 4 points deducted from her 28 point per game average so yes, pete comes out on top.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
5 and 8 would be a 6 point difference not including 3s which would minus 4 points a game meaning shes still plus 2 for points accounted for removing the 3 s
She played as a freshman he didnt. She also didnt get the tournament her freshman year because of covid rules. It really doesnt matter if she played more games or not, you cannot have an impact on a collegiate game if you arent playing in it.
If were just going by what could have happened for people that didnt start or left early for the NBA than the leader would be someone like Lebron who skipped college. You have to be in college to be the best collegiate player
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Maravich was literally not allowed to play during his freshman year. it is not as if he was missing time due to injury.
of course it matters that she played more games. He wasnt allowed to.
my goodness...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I'm thinking that this was about the time that it got through to you that trying to have an argument about whether an apple is more appleier than an orange is orangier with someone who thinks the argument is about two apples leads to nothing but frustration.
No it does not matter that she played in more games for collegiate sports. Its not a points per game record
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
yes. you hit the nail on the head dallas. read his latest comment. ugh.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I really do not think you have a solid understanding of this discussion.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Exactly. Two separate leagues. Two separate records.
If I said that Alex McPherson had a higher NCAA Field Goal percentage than Clark last year, that would be as true a statement in saying "Clark Scored more points than Maravich", and it would also be about the same level of comparison as comparing Clark to Maravich.
You see, McPherson was a kicker for Auburn with a 100% Field Goal percentage and his league was about as different from Clark's as Clark's was from Maravich's making both comparisons completely silly.
Pete played against the best players in college. Pete played against the absolute best players in the world in the NBA. Clark played against players who played like a bunch of girls. If she skips the WNBA and goes to the NBA I will be impressed.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
Does this mean that the records set in the Lingerie Football League are equal to the records in the NFL? 🤔
checkmate
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
We go to the WNBA games here in Vegas and find it to be great basketball. Great fundamentals, passing, defense, etc.... The three pointers are not as you describe from what I have seen. Plus, the fans are really into it. Great time!
It is all in how it is asked.
If you asked who has the most points in NCAA BASKETBALL MENS then it is Maravich.
If you ask who has the most points in NCAA Women's then it is Clark.
But if you only ask who has the most points in NCAA history the true answer is Clark.
( It is all in how it is worded. )
Just found on line from nbc news ( NBC NEWS )
Iowa's Caitlin Clark breaks Pistol Pete Maravich'sNCAA Division i scoring record.
CBS and many others also posted the very same .
Is NBC and CBS and many others wrong.
CHECK MATE, CASE CLOSED, or you guys can keep arguing . I sit on the sidelines laughing at you guys going back and forth for the next 6 months.
Yes. Stop watching the news and think for oneself.
Two different leagues that don't compare.
Again, who won the NCAA basketball title last year?
Lemme guess - When getting home from the game, after walking the miniature poodle, you tune-in to watch the latest reruns of "Friends" and "Mad about You." 😉
Interesting fact, Maravich scored 50+points in a game 28 times in college, he scored 60+ points in four games in college, the man could take a game over and there was little to nothing you could do to stop him when he went off. I love this shot by shot footage of the night he torched the Knicks for 68 in the NBA.
None of the above.
Have a nice weekend.
No reason to insult any canine!
I want to see the WNBA all star team take on Montverde Academy before I pick a side.
I bet Maravich would have enjoyed having twice as many possessions per game with the present day shot clock.
Other than that I guess it’s nice to bring attention to the women’s game but it’s not a direct comparison of these collegiate careers irrespective of the simple point total. This is one of those cases, I think, where everyone is right, but none of it matters.
The TV ratings for Iowa - LSU were higher than all the World Series games and all but one of the NBA Finals games last year.
I would say Clark has been significantly more impactful in her sport than Maravich in his day. Her overall game is more well rounded, including superior team results.
Using their respective size/weight balls, I would take Clark over Maravich in a 3-point contest (in their college primes).
FWIW, I have always been a big fan of Maravich. I just think Clark has led a level of popularity that we haven't seen in college basketball in a very long time.
From golf, tennis, hockey, soccer, softball, volleyball - women's sports are often a very good watch. I do agree that basketball can at times be a tougher watch than a typical men's game but in some respects the product is better played.
Erik
"I would say Clark has been significantly more impactful in her sport than Maravich in his day."
I agree with ya.
Caitlin Clark is becoming a household name. Maravich was never that.
Um. Did Maravich have Sportscenter, ESPN, Facebook, or X ?
The only reason the rematch had so many viewers is because of social media and the networks love a Magic-Bird or Clark-Reese matchup.
I have more Maravich - one day I hope to read that autobiography above...
Erik