Caitlin Clark:Do you really feel she broke Pete Maravichs record?
BLUEJAYWAY
Posts: 9,317 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Kim Mulky,LSU women's coach, in her comments felt it's an apples/oranges comparison. Citing the 3 point option was not in play for Pete. What if was reversed? Would a man breaking a woman's record be so recognized? Or be a case of pointing out the physical differences of the two genders. Thereby null/void of recognition for the male achievement.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
0
Comments
Sure, Pete didn't have the 3 but the games for him were 25% longer than they are for Clark.
Mulky likes attention with her outfits and everything. Theres the whole Reese and Clark thing too
Clark broke the record and it makes sense at this point given that the best male players go to the NBA after a year and the top women can potentially make more in NIL than in the WNBA.
Mens vs womens records would be a different talk which in this case probably wouldnt really matter. Men have been playing against men and women against women its just more likely for a woman to stay the 4 years and not leave early.
Clark has the record though and should be recognized for it
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Guess one could get into the comparison of different eras discussion as well. Like baseball records. Deadball era, lower mound etc.
Pointing out Pete Maravich didn't shoot threes for his record should not have any bearing on what Caitlin Clark has accomplished. that would be like pointing out that Lebron's career scoring record should be diminshed because Kareem didn't shoot three pointers.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Apples and oranges.
A silly comparison.
This is all that needs to be said
No shot clock during Pete's time, so teams could slow the game down.
comparing apples to elephants. light years between men's and women basketball. toss Caitlin onto a men's D1 team and see how many she scores.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
No offense to anyone, but women's basketball is painful to watch.
On a school level, it's fine because of the athletic rivalry between schools, which in my view, student athletics in general leads to becoming better adults. The students overall enjoy watching and supporting it for reasons such as loyalty to their school which is a good thing.
However women's basketball on a professional level really is preposterous. Watching a woman trying to shoot a three, is like watching someone with Parkinson's disease trying to thread a needle.
@stevek 100% agree. It is terrible to watch. after watching so much professional basketball over the years, the women just seem so un-athletic compared to the men. It is super slow-paced and deliberate.
unless you had a friend or relative playing women's basketball, I just don't see why you would watch.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It's perhaps too late in the basketball evolutionary scale to do this. But in my view, changing the parameters for women would make it a more interesting game for the players and fans. Anything could be in play such as lowering the basket, reducing the size of the ball, and on and on.
Frankly, as far as men's pro basketball, I think the basket should be raised to perhaps 12 feet. It's just too easy these days for most of them to dunk the ball. Take a guy such as Wembanyama. Dunking to him is like child's play. Almost not like "sport" at all. Not very exciting to watch if ya ask me.
Thats true for every sport. She does hold the record though. Its not a question of who would win 1 on 1, its who scored more against their peers.
The WNBA is awful to watch, but womens college is actually fun. The rivalries, atmosphere, hatred etc. College sports in general are just much more passionate and electric especially compared to leagues where players dont start playing hard until the playoffs
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
No.
Besides the three-point shot, Pete only played three years in college; whereas Caitlin Clark has played four years.
Maravich played in 83 regular season games
Clark has played in 133 regular season games
Steve
Agreed about NCAA woman's basketball being fun to watch
Dwight Howard had a 12 foot rim brought in during the dunk contest years ago, he went into a phone booth and put on a Superman cape and dunked!
The only women's sports I enjoy watching is Tennis and volleyball.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Here it is.
I've always wondered why the NBA goal height hasn't been raised as well, it's the same height from middle school all the way through to the NBA. Perhaps they fear it will cut down on scoring? I'm not really sure.
To me, women's tennis versus men's tennis is much more entertaining to watch with the better volleys, etc.
I'm not sure either. Could be tradition or something like that?
I've seen it before and don't feel like Googling it, but the original hand written rules of basketball on a sheet of paper from the inventor still exists. I forget if it went up for auction or is in a museum, or still in private hands? In any event, players have of course gotten taller since then, and in my opinion on a pro level, the rules of basketball should be changed a bit to make it more interesting.
Sorry to say that some folks still find a dunk sort of exciting. And that's fine, whatever turns ya on. Whereby i think dunking on a pro level is one of the most boring ways to score points in sports. I just have no interest at all in the pro game.
Caitlyn Clark is a great player, no doubt about it, but Pete Maravich is a totally different animal. A true basketball genius that many consider the greatest to ever live, and might have been, if not for certain circumstances in his life. This is a great book about him that I read a while back.
Then the movie Hoosiers would not be relevant.
@stevek said:
Absolutely fascinating stuff here, the original handwritten rules of basketball by Dr. James Naismith are on display at Kansas's Allen Fieldhouse. They keep them behind a protected area, sort of like the Mona Lisa at the Louvre. This story was written in 2016.
Kansas to build $18-million facility for Naismith rules
LAWRENCE, Kan. (AP) — James Naismith's original rules of basketball are about to have a permanent home.
The University of Kansas plans to build an $18 million facility that connects to Allen Fieldhouse and will house the original two-page document on which, in 1891, Naismith outlined the 13 basic rules for what would become the game of basketball.
The three-story facility will be known as the DeBruce Center in honor of Paul and Katherine DeBruce, who donated the bulk of the private funding. Along with housing the rules, it will have dining and meeting spaces available for students, faculty and visitors.
Construction is expected to begin later this year.
"The DeBruce Center will serve not only as a 'must-see' destination landmark for sports fans and history buffs, but also as an important, integral part of campus benefiting students, faculty and visitors alike," Kansas athletic director Sheahon Zenger said Wednesday.
In 2010, Kansas alumnus David Booth purchased Naismith's original rules at an auction for $4.3 million, at the time the highest price ever paid for sports memorabilia.
Booth's intention was for the rules to reside at Kansas, where Naismith founded the school's basketball program in 1898 and then spent nine years as its coach. The story of Booth's purchase was detailed in an ESPN "30 for 30" documentary, "There's No Place Like Home."
The acquisition of the rules became the catalyst for a new building on campus.
"Our years on the Hill helped provide a foundation for each of us to be successful and give back to our community," said Paul DeBruce, who founded a grain company in the late 1970s.
"Part of that experience was academic," DeBruce said, "but a lot of it included the many friends we made there and the fond memories of attending basketball games at Allen Fieldhouse. We hope the new center will be a place on campus that students and faculty will want to come to and enjoy. It will be a meeting place for friends and a place to further honor KU traditions."
Fascinating.
All this basketball talk is getting me in the mood, I might just swing by eBay and check out the Pete Maravich cards!
Dr. James Naismith would be in awe if he could see how far along the game has come since he invented it.
I disagree. I have been surprised at how much better the woman’s game is compared to 5-10 years ago. They are more athletic. Also because athleticism doesn’t reign supreme, you can follow their strategy more easily. Plays, etc. like women’s golf VS men’s golf. Men just smash and wedge. Women’s game has a bit more strategy to it because they aren’t just overpowering golf courses.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
She was attempting a dunk.🏀
Almost treated like the Declaration of Independence.
I've actually been to Paris France, went there in the summer of 1992 with my grandparents, and we visited the Louvre museum, I stood right in front of Da Vinci's Mona Lisa. It was a surreal site to behold, the painting is so old that the painting actually has tiny cracks all throughout the paint because of hundreds of years of aging. An up close view and you can see what I'm talking about.
I hear Nicholas Cage has un upcoming movie where he needs to steal this.
I've thought about stealing it myself.
I've been there as well. I stood in that same spot.
I've always enjoyed museums, and the Louvre is right up there with the best. 😊
It's been at least 10 years ago since I watched a women's basketball game.
Maybe I'll give it another look one day if I'm totally and completely bored with nothing better to do. 😉
You could then cut it up into say 100 pieces, paste each piece on cards, and sell each card on
Ebay.
PS: I get a 5% commission for giving you the idea.
Clark is quite good, smart player, great passer and incredible shooter. You should catch one of her games Steve. She is VERY impressive.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
Aside from messing with shooting accuracy and scoring the NBA wants the dunks. They know thats what their high lights are and that people dont want to just watch a bunch of lay ups. The harder it is for guys to dunk the chance of injury goes up and guys will just do it less.
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
everyone has a right to their opinion, but as compared to the mens game, womens basketball is unathletic, slow and very deliberate. I like to watch the highest level of sport. I dont like mens college or minor league sports either. I only care to watch the pros do their thing. ymmv.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Had Maravich played against Clark's opponents his team would have won by an average score of 155 to 8, and Maravich would have scored more than 10,000 points in his college career.
Its the same level of comparative competition for the women vs women as it is the men vs men.
Of course the mens Quinnipac ice hockey team would beat the Wisconsin womens team if the two champions this year played each other, but it doesnt take away from the fact that the Wisconsin women have won 3 of the last 4 as an example
Competition needs to be viewed by looking at it as accomplishments against peers not the whole well the mens team would have dominated the womens league which of course they would have
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Fair enough, but then, emphatically, NO, Clark did not break Maravich's record.
Did she break the Mens record, of course not. Did she break the NCAA record though absolutely. Theres only two of the 4 major sports that have direct comparisons, basketball and ice hockey.
One of the most impressive things though is that shes also 4th all time in assists and should finish top 3 if she stays healthy for the tournament. She hasnt been playing on juggernaut teams either, LSU and South Carolina have been the juggernauts in her career
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
On the one hand you want me to recognize that men's sports and women's sports are different things, and I shouldn't compare one to the other. On the other hand, now, you want me to agree that Clark broke "the NCAA record", not "the NCAA women's record".
Can't have it both ways, and what you said on the first hand is obviously correct. Maravich and Clark played completely different games with their own sets of records. Maravich still holds the men's record and Clark holds the women's record. To compare the two is to acknowledge that literally millions of men could break Clark's record if they, like Clark, got to play against female competition. I can agree not to compare the two, and you need to agree not to call the record Clark broke "the" NCAA record.
@dallasactuary this is totally off topic, but I felt it needed to be mentioned. I am just now noticing your sig. knowing how you feel about Jim Rice, that is a fantastic tribute to @thisistheshow He would have LOVED it.
here is a big "attaboy!"
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Its pretty simple. NCAA records in sports that are the same like basketball have an NCAA record. Track and field swimming etc have one as well. Baseball and Softball dont the game is to different, theres no female football and so on.
Yes she broke the NCAA record, she broke the womens record as well, and no she did not break the mens record because she is a woman and played against women just like Pete doesnt have the womens record because he was a man.
She has scored the most points in NCAA division 1 history of any man or woman, thats a record for a sport with the same rules for both genders
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
But they don't have the same rules. In men's basketball the competitors are men, and in women's basketball the competitors are women. That is such an enormous rule difference that it would make less difference if the basket was lowered to seven feet and the three point line moved in to 12 feet. It would make a LOT less difference. No, Clark did not break "the" NCAA record. No such record exists or has ever existed. Because the sport she plays is so different than the sport Maravich played, as you pointed out, correctly, before abandoning the one thing you've said that was correct.
So youre arguing that only men can have an NCAA record even in one of two major sports (basketball and soccer) that have essentially the same rules outside of Olympic sports?
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
If we are going to be counting caitlin clarks points even though she plays in a level of competition as to be almost a different sport than Maravich played, I think it is only fair to count Maravich's point totals during his freshman season. considering that freshman men's basketball is worlds more competitive than varsity womens basketball. so we should be adding 741 more points to his total. that would put petes total at 4,408 points.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I dated for awhile the best girl's tennis player in our high school. Took her out for a couple years. Early on I wanted to impress her, so I spent good money to secure an hour's worth of playing time at this ritzy indoor tennis court. I had only played tennis briefly a few times, but I held my own against her, although it was clear that she was better than me.
However, we made it a regular outing to play tennis together on a free outdoor court, and it didn't take long, but after some time it was clear I became a lot better than her. Even though she had played considerably more tennis than me.
This just illustrates one small example, and it's obvious anyway, that men are superior athletes to women. There are simply differences in our skeletal structure and muscle mass that evolution made it that way.
To try to equate men and women in sports, really is preposterous. And this total BS with "transitional" men competing in women's sports is a total abomination, and should be outlawed.