You tell the little old lady you want to buy the three coins but tell her she had priced one way to cheap and give her an extra $500.
She thanks you for being honest and says she really knows nothing about coins but that her late husband collected them for many years. She tells you she has a large chest full of coins and offers you half the profits if you can help her sell them.
You tell the little old lady you want to buy the three coins but tell her she had priced one way to cheap and give her an extra $500.
She thanks you for being honest and says she really knows nothing about coins but that her late husband collected them for many years. She tells you she has a large chest full of coins and offers you half the profits if you can help her sell them.
Instant karma.
And as you walk from the driveway to her garage to check out this treasure chest of coins a wheel has broken off a jumbo jet flying overhead and lands on the two of you.
This forum frequently reports problems to ebay and to eBay sellers.
Please provide an example of when this forum told an eBay seller that their coin was actually worth significantly more than the BIN price.
That's an entirely different scenario than when the forum messages sellers that their listings are inaccurate in an effort to provide consumer protection to potential buyers.
I've done this a few times with examples of varieties that I wasn't interested in purchasing, resulting in the seller doubling and even tripling the seller's asking price. I wanted to test the market with someone else's properly attributed coins. The sellers were most appreciative, and I was delighted by the results. I got giddy over discovering a cherry-pick "pay streak" and spread the joy around.
A languishing BIN for $50 that was pulled and sold for $125. All I can find is the photo of the date.
@pursuitofliberty said:
These debates are always interesting, and provide some insight to various member's claim to honesty and honor, and for others, how far they want to twist and apply the mention of honesty and honor to different (but somehow similar?) scenarios.
.
To the OP's question, as asked (warning, you might think less of me after reading);
I would buy them, and maybe even haggle just enough not to seem to eager and not be buying the other two or three for insane prices. I say this because any other scenario could mean they don't sell them to me.
Especially if I decided to sell the Black Holder, I would go back and give them some of the profit, explaining that one of the coins was a rarer find that I didn't calculate for when I bought them, and I felt that I should pay them more for that.
I might do exactly the same if I kept the Black Holder.
It probably wouldn't be a lot ... depending on how I felt about them. Of course, it would have to feel right to me based on the excess "value" I received.
It's hard to quantify without real numbers, but giving too much back might backfire with a situation I wouldn't want to deal with or explain. And I agree with @braddick ... I spent an inordinate amount of time learning, understanding and knowing things about this hobby that at least 99% of the population has no clue about. It's nice to reap some reward from that knowledge occasionally.
My return visit would probably just be a, "Hey, I made a mistake. I looked in the mirror. I wanted to make sure you came out better than when I left the other day, because I did", coupled with the number of $50. bills I felt was necessary.
.
On a side note, some of the answers here showed great wit and were FANTASTICALLY funny!
I once saw a nice original mid-grade 1866 IHC, asked for the price, was quoted 30 dollars by the employee after they consulted the sheet, and I bought it (there’s a weird smattering of expensive vs. cheap dates in that series but I knew it couldn’t be a bad deal being a 60’s date.)
Pulled up CoinFacts in the car and realized she must have misread the price, so I went back in to return the coin as I didn’t want her to get in trouble over it. I found out later she got in trouble BECAUSE I went back and called it out. Perhaps it saved the owner (and her) from a worse blunder down the road but was a case where I felt worse for doing the “right” thing and actually felt selfish like I got the gal in trouble in the name of clearing my own conscience. Ah, ethics….
Since I don’t collect rare slabs, I think I’d probably just buy the slab and sell it to a collector who collects rare slabs without gouging the collector. Like I’d sell it for what I got it for or for just a few dollars more for my time. I’ve done similar before if I spot something that is underpriced but not something I collect and other people have done so for me. Not everything has to be sold for a maxed out price and in the instance of rare slabs I think people who sell them for the maxed out value are gouging people.
Here we see the two sides of capitalism. On one side we have folks who want to put in an honest effort and receive a commensurate return. On the other we have the hustle culture where we play a zero-sum game: I gain, you lose.
I recently had some coins I wanted to deaccession from my collection. I went to a dealer in NJ who was not my usual dealer. He lowballed me, but I am not a contentious sort of person. I would never bargain or haggle. I knew he was cheating me, but it just is not in me to argue. I took what he offered; I see one of the indian cents where he gave me $15 is now on eBay for $165. He said AU, and is selling as MS.
So here we have a person who is on the hustle, and I can make my choice never to see this person again. I have an alternate dealer who is more low-end but I trust him, and I freely give him my extras and intentionally sell low and buy high to help make sure he can succeed.
So there are other routes to take, other than zero-sum. I would ask if the seller would like me to sell the coins at auction and split the value. It would help them, not really inconvenience me, and just possibly benefit us both. There is no reason to be a jerk.
You tell the little old lady you want to buy the three coins but tell her she had priced one way to cheap and give her an extra $500.
She thanks you for being honest and says she really knows nothing about coins but that her late husband collected them for many years. She tells you she has a large chest full of coins and offers you half the profits if you can help her sell them.
Instant karma.
And as you walk from the driveway to her garage to check out this treasure chest of coins a wheel has broken off a jumbo jet flying overhead and lands on the two of you.
When do these scenarios end?
.
.
.
And then the wheel bounces, tearing the wall of the garage open revealing a previously unknown huge hoard of gold coins from a long ago property owner.
As the gold coins are falling out of the wall while you are of course stuffing your pockets with as much as you can hold along with all the rest of the yard sale attendees and others in the neighborhood, you notice the black NGC holder under the hand of the now dead previous buyer.
Now here is where the ethical dilemma comes in. Not knowing what he paid, do you leave an amount of cash under his hand for the marked amount on the coin or do you leave some extra knowing the black holder is worth more?
Remember first responders will be arriving soon so you need to get away quickly and there is not much time to decide. What do you do?
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
There is only one time where I encountered something like this. Back when my son was young my wife liked paying him with half dollars for his chores. I drove down to the bank to get some and the teller said they were out but remembered she had some in her SDB. She came back with a roll and sold it to me for face value.
When I got home I opened up the roll to find that they were all 40% silver so I went back to the bank and gave the teller the option of letting me either pay melt or just undo the transaction.
When I got home I opened up the roll to find that they were all 40% silver so I went back to the bank and gave the teller the option of letting me either pay melt or just undo the transaction.
That makes no sense at all to me. The bank took them in at face value.
The teller was not entitled to the windall. For that matter, neither was the bank.
If you could have somehow contacted the original depositor and wanted to pass the premium back to them that's one thing, but to hand found money to someone who had no ownership of it makes no sense to me.
When I got home I opened up the roll to find that they were all 40% silver so I went back to the bank and gave the teller the option of letting me either pay melt or just undo the transaction.
That makes no sense at all to me. The bank took them in at face value.
The teller was not entitled to the windall. For that matter, neither was the bank.
If you could have somehow contacted the original depositor and wanted to pass the premium back to them that's one thing, but to hand found money to someone who had no ownership of it makes no sense to me.
The teller took the roll from her own personal SDB.
When I got home I opened up the roll to find that they were all 40% silver so I went back to the bank and gave the teller the option of letting me either pay melt or just undo the transaction.
That makes no sense at all to me. The bank took them in at face value.
The teller was not entitled to the windall. For that matter, neither was the bank.
If you could have somehow contacted the original depositor and wanted to pass the premium back to them that's one thing, but to hand found money to someone who had no ownership of it makes no sense to me.
The teller took the roll from her own personal SDB.
She went to her private/personal safe deposit box?? Wow - that's customer service!
Unless the black holder thing is reflected in CDN bid not sure recognize the extra value on it. That’s seems more like some speculative, collector BS thing IMO. Would just put zero on that piece of it. So my offer a pct of CDN bid on the 3 or 4 - depending on inventory needs, where they are in the grade range, what could flip for, and current market conditions. Would lay the cash out in front of them taking the deal and treat them as fairly as any walkup sellers off the bourse.
Yes Martin agree buyers out to get a good rip at a garage sale - low ball heck out of sellers par for the course.
Every day major rips happen on ebay. One of the members here bought one of the rare 1812 Bust halves out of DC for a little over a hundred that made 100X more who threatened people with a lawsuit if anyone scotched the deal. Contracts are based on knowing parties who not impaired or under duress. Fair dealing is integral to the strength of the hobby.
Is there such a thing as " more honest than thou"?
It gets to a point where the honesty (a good thing) starts to feel postured and finessed into something possibly a bit less honest?
🤔
@CircCam said:
I once saw a nice original mid-grade 1866 IHC, asked for the price, was quoted 30 dollars by the employee after they consulted the sheet, and I bought it (there’s a weird smattering of expensive vs. cheap dates in that series but I knew it couldn’t be a bad deal being a 60’s date.)
Pulled up CoinFacts in the car and realized she must have misread the price, so I went back in to return the coin as I didn’t want her to get in trouble over it. I found out later she got in trouble BECAUSE I went back and called it out. Perhaps it saved the owner (and her) from a worse blunder down the road but was a case where I felt worse for doing the “right” thing and actually felt selfish like I got the gal in trouble in the name of clearing my own conscience. Ah, ethics….
Also, really love it when "the Dealer" makes his appearance in these threads... brings the bourse right to my living room, reveals once again what a bunch of amateurs we are..
🤤
Comments
@braddick said:
Post of the day
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
I've done this a few times with examples of varieties that I wasn't interested in purchasing, resulting in the seller doubling and even tripling the seller's asking price. I wanted to test the market with someone else's properly attributed coins. The sellers were most appreciative, and I was delighted by the results. I got giddy over discovering a cherry-pick "pay streak" and spread the joy around.
A languishing BIN for $50 that was pulled and sold for $125. All I can find is the photo of the date.
Telling them what it might be worth pretty much guarantees that they won't sell the coin/s to you.
I once saw a nice original mid-grade 1866 IHC, asked for the price, was quoted 30 dollars by the employee after they consulted the sheet, and I bought it (there’s a weird smattering of expensive vs. cheap dates in that series but I knew it couldn’t be a bad deal being a 60’s date.)
Pulled up CoinFacts in the car and realized she must have misread the price, so I went back in to return the coin as I didn’t want her to get in trouble over it. I found out later she got in trouble BECAUSE I went back and called it out. Perhaps it saved the owner (and her) from a worse blunder down the road but was a case where I felt worse for doing the “right” thing and actually felt selfish like I got the gal in trouble in the name of clearing my own conscience. Ah, ethics….
Since I don’t collect rare slabs, I think I’d probably just buy the slab and sell it to a collector who collects rare slabs without gouging the collector. Like I’d sell it for what I got it for or for just a few dollars more for my time. I’ve done similar before if I spot something that is underpriced but not something I collect and other people have done so for me. Not everything has to be sold for a maxed out price and in the instance of rare slabs I think people who sell them for the maxed out value are gouging people.
Mr_Spud
Here we see the two sides of capitalism. On one side we have folks who want to put in an honest effort and receive a commensurate return. On the other we have the hustle culture where we play a zero-sum game: I gain, you lose.
I recently had some coins I wanted to deaccession from my collection. I went to a dealer in NJ who was not my usual dealer. He lowballed me, but I am not a contentious sort of person. I would never bargain or haggle. I knew he was cheating me, but it just is not in me to argue. I took what he offered; I see one of the indian cents where he gave me $15 is now on eBay for $165. He said AU, and is selling as MS.
So here we have a person who is on the hustle, and I can make my choice never to see this person again. I have an alternate dealer who is more low-end but I trust him, and I freely give him my extras and intentionally sell low and buy high to help make sure he can succeed.
So there are other routes to take, other than zero-sum. I would ask if the seller would like me to sell the coins at auction and split the value. It would help them, not really inconvenience me, and just possibly benefit us both. There is no reason to be a jerk.
.
.
.
And then the wheel bounces, tearing the wall of the garage open revealing a previously unknown huge hoard of gold coins from a long ago property owner.
As the gold coins are falling out of the wall while you are of course stuffing your pockets with as much as you can hold along with all the rest of the yard sale attendees and others in the neighborhood, you notice the black NGC holder under the hand of the now dead previous buyer.
Now here is where the ethical dilemma comes in. Not knowing what he paid, do you leave an amount of cash under his hand for the marked amount on the coin or do you leave some extra knowing the black holder is worth more?
Remember first responders will be arriving soon so you need to get away quickly and there is not much time to decide. What do you do?
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I found a hoard of 200 some odd auto's prospect baseball cards.
Paid $20 for the bunch, drove down the road and examined the hoard.
Almost every one of them from the 1990's and none of them made an MLB team except one player!
Oh well... took them to a flea market sports card guy and flipped them for $200.
Kept a few for myself.
Went back and gave the lady $80.
She was really grateful.
If I find a $200K work of art?
I would find a way to give them a 5% cut, but surely not publicizing the rip.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Reminds me of the 1888/7 IHC rip a forum member scored about a year ago.
Somehow made it into a major holder without the designation.
Printing oversight maybe?
Somehow lands on a dealers website.
Forum member grabs the coin.
Somebody rats on the forum member.
Bye Bye $10K rip.
It wasn't an easy ride getting to the intersection of knowledge and opportunity.
I would always make the purchase, and then reflect.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
There is only one time where I encountered something like this. Back when my son was young my wife liked paying him with half dollars for his chores. I drove down to the bank to get some and the teller said they were out but remembered she had some in her SDB. She came back with a roll and sold it to me for face value.
When I got home I opened up the roll to find that they were all 40% silver so I went back to the bank and gave the teller the option of letting me either pay melt or just undo the transaction.
That makes no sense at all to me. The bank took them in at face value.
The teller was not entitled to the windall. For that matter, neither was the bank.
If you could have somehow contacted the original depositor and wanted to pass the premium back to them that's one thing, but to hand found money to someone who had no ownership of it makes no sense to me.
The teller took the roll from her own personal SDB.
She went to her private/personal safe deposit box?? Wow - that's customer service!
That's a good thing that you did, in that case.
Ooooooof I hope they never run into each other at a show.
Ketchup, mustard and pocket protectors will be flying everywhere.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Is there a photo of the NGC Black holder anywhere?
Louis Armstrong
Unless the black holder thing is reflected in CDN bid not sure recognize the extra value on it. That’s seems more like some speculative, collector BS thing IMO. Would just put zero on that piece of it. So my offer a pct of CDN bid on the 3 or 4 - depending on inventory needs, where they are in the grade range, what could flip for, and current market conditions. Would lay the cash out in front of them taking the deal and treat them as fairly as any walkup sellers off the bourse.
Yes Martin agree buyers out to get a good rip at a garage sale - low ball heck out of sellers par for the course.
Every day major rips happen on ebay. One of the members here bought one of the rare 1812 Bust halves out of DC for a little over a hundred that made 100X more who threatened people with a lawsuit if anyone scotched the deal. Contracts are based on knowing parties who not impaired or under duress. Fair dealing is integral to the strength of the hobby.
See AUG-1987 @ https://www.ngccoin.com/about/evolution-of-ngc-holder/
Is there such a thing as " more honest than thou"?
It gets to a point where the honesty (a good thing) starts to feel postured and finessed into something possibly a bit less honest?
🤔
I’ll give you $35
kidding
My YouTube Channel
Also, really love it when "the Dealer" makes his appearance in these threads... brings the bourse right to my living room, reveals once again what a bunch of amateurs we are..
🤤