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A hypothetical on honesty.

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  • Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2024 9:40AM

    @braddick said:

    @Icollecteverything said:
    How about another scenario?

    You tell the little old lady you want to buy the three coins but tell her she had priced one way to cheap and give her an extra $500.

    She thanks you for being honest and says she really knows nothing about coins but that her late husband collected them for many years. She tells you she has a large chest full of coins and offers you half the profits if you can help her sell them.

    Instant karma.

    @Icollecteverything said:
    How about another scenario?

    You tell the little old lady you want to buy the three coins but tell her she had priced one way to cheap and give her an extra $500.

    She thanks you for being honest and says she really knows nothing about coins but that her late husband collected them for many years. She tells you she has a large chest full of coins and offers you half the profits if you can help her sell them.

    Instant karma.

    And as you walk from the driveway to her garage to check out this treasure chest of coins a wheel has broken off a jumbo jet flying overhead and lands on the two of you.

    When do these scenarios end?

    Post of the day

    BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.

  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Project Numismatics said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    This forum frequently reports problems to ebay and to eBay sellers.

    Please provide an example of when this forum told an eBay seller that their coin was actually worth significantly more than the BIN price.

    That's an entirely different scenario than when the forum messages sellers that their listings are inaccurate in an effort to provide consumer protection to potential buyers.

    I've done this a few times with examples of varieties that I wasn't interested in purchasing, resulting in the seller doubling and even tripling the seller's asking price. I wanted to test the market with someone else's properly attributed coins. The sellers were most appreciative, and I was delighted by the results. I got giddy over discovering a cherry-pick "pay streak" and spread the joy around.

    A languishing BIN for $50 that was pulled and sold for $125. All I can find is the photo of the date.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Project Numismatics said:

    @pursuitofliberty said:
    These debates are always interesting, and provide some insight to various member's claim to honesty and honor, and for others, how far they want to twist and apply the mention of honesty and honor to different (but somehow similar?) scenarios.

    .

    To the OP's question, as asked (warning, you might think less of me after reading);

    I would buy them, and maybe even haggle just enough not to seem to eager and not be buying the other two or three for insane prices. I say this because any other scenario could mean they don't sell them to me.

    Especially if I decided to sell the Black Holder, I would go back and give them some of the profit, explaining that one of the coins was a rarer find that I didn't calculate for when I bought them, and I felt that I should pay them more for that.

    I might do exactly the same if I kept the Black Holder.

    It probably wouldn't be a lot ... depending on how I felt about them. Of course, it would have to feel right to me based on the excess "value" I received.

    It's hard to quantify without real numbers, but giving too much back might backfire with a situation I wouldn't want to deal with or explain. And I agree with @braddick ... I spent an inordinate amount of time learning, understanding and knowing things about this hobby that at least 99% of the population has no clue about. It's nice to reap some reward from that knowledge occasionally.

    My return visit would probably just be a, "Hey, I made a mistake. I looked in the mirror. I wanted to make sure you came out better than when I left the other day, because I did", coupled with the number of $50. bills I felt was necessary.

    .

    On a side note, some of the answers here showed great wit and were FANTASTICALLY funny!

    Thank you for that, especially @airplanenut and @MrEureka

    Why do you feel it’s ethical to purchase the coin without telling the seller upfront only to give money back later?

    Shouldn’t the seller have the benefit of making a choice about how to maximize their profit and have a say in how the proceeds should be split?

    If you failed to maximize the profit, did you do them a disservice?

    And what is fair compensation? Is it okay to alter the compensation based on “how I felt about them”?

    Telling them what it might be worth pretty much guarantees that they won't sell the coin/s to you.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • CircCamCircCam Posts: 284 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I once saw a nice original mid-grade 1866 IHC, asked for the price, was quoted 30 dollars by the employee after they consulted the sheet, and I bought it (there’s a weird smattering of expensive vs. cheap dates in that series but I knew it couldn’t be a bad deal being a 60’s date.)

    Pulled up CoinFacts in the car and realized she must have misread the price, so I went back in to return the coin as I didn’t want her to get in trouble over it. I found out later she got in trouble BECAUSE I went back and called it out. Perhaps it saved the owner (and her) from a worse blunder down the road but was a case where I felt worse for doing the “right” thing and actually felt selfish like I got the gal in trouble in the name of clearing my own conscience. Ah, ethics….

  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Since I don’t collect rare slabs, I think I’d probably just buy the slab and sell it to a collector who collects rare slabs without gouging the collector. Like I’d sell it for what I got it for or for just a few dollars more for my time. I’ve done similar before if I spot something that is underpriced but not something I collect and other people have done so for me. Not everything has to be sold for a maxed out price and in the instance of rare slabs I think people who sell them for the maxed out value are gouging people.

    Mr_Spud

  • RonsandersonRonsanderson Posts: 130 ✭✭✭✭

    Here we see the two sides of capitalism. On one side we have folks who want to put in an honest effort and receive a commensurate return. On the other we have the hustle culture where we play a zero-sum game: I gain, you lose.

    I recently had some coins I wanted to deaccession from my collection. I went to a dealer in NJ who was not my usual dealer. He lowballed me, but I am not a contentious sort of person. I would never bargain or haggle. I knew he was cheating me, but it just is not in me to argue. I took what he offered; I see one of the indian cents where he gave me $15 is now on eBay for $165. He said AU, and is selling as MS.

    So here we have a person who is on the hustle, and I can make my choice never to see this person again. I have an alternate dealer who is more low-end but I trust him, and I freely give him my extras and intentionally sell low and buy high to help make sure he can succeed.

    So there are other routes to take, other than zero-sum. I would ask if the seller would like me to sell the coins at auction and split the value. It would help them, not really inconvenience me, and just possibly benefit us both. There is no reason to be a jerk.

  • yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2024 7:09PM

    I found a hoard of 200 some odd auto's prospect baseball cards.

    Paid $20 for the bunch, drove down the road and examined the hoard.

    Almost every one of them from the 1990's and none of them made an MLB team except one player!

    Oh well... took them to a flea market sports card guy and flipped them for $200.

    Kept a few for myself.

    Went back and gave the lady $80.

    She was really grateful.

    If I find a $200K work of art?

    I would find a way to give them a 5% cut, but surely not publicizing the rip.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

  • yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Reminds me of the 1888/7 IHC rip a forum member scored about a year ago.

    Somehow made it into a major holder without the designation.

    Printing oversight maybe?

    Somehow lands on a dealers website.

    Forum member grabs the coin.

    Somebody rats on the forum member.

    Bye Bye $10K rip.

    It wasn't an easy ride getting to the intersection of knowledge and opportunity.

    I would always make the purchase, and then reflect.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

  • TxCollectorTxCollector Posts: 426 ✭✭✭✭

    There is only one time where I encountered something like this. Back when my son was young my wife liked paying him with half dollars for his chores. I drove down to the bank to get some and the teller said they were out but remembered she had some in her SDB. She came back with a roll and sold it to me for face value.

    When I got home I opened up the roll to find that they were all 40% silver so I went back to the bank and gave the teller the option of letting me either pay melt or just undo the transaction.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,597 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:

    When I got home I opened up the roll to find that they were all 40% silver so I went back to the bank and gave the teller the option of letting me either pay melt or just undo the transaction.

    That makes no sense at all to me. The bank took them in at face value.

    The teller was not entitled to the windall. For that matter, neither was the bank.

    If you could have somehow contacted the original depositor and wanted to pass the premium back to them that's one thing, but to hand found money to someone who had no ownership of it makes no sense to me.

  • TxCollectorTxCollector Posts: 426 ✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:

    @jeffas1974 said:

    When I got home I opened up the roll to find that they were all 40% silver so I went back to the bank and gave the teller the option of letting me either pay melt or just undo the transaction.

    That makes no sense at all to me. The bank took them in at face value.

    The teller was not entitled to the windall. For that matter, neither was the bank.

    If you could have somehow contacted the original depositor and wanted to pass the premium back to them that's one thing, but to hand found money to someone who had no ownership of it makes no sense to me.

    The teller took the roll from her own personal SDB.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,597 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:

    @JBK said:

    @jeffas1974 said:

    When I got home I opened up the roll to find that they were all 40% silver so I went back to the bank and gave the teller the option of letting me either pay melt or just undo the transaction.

    That makes no sense at all to me. The bank took them in at face value.

    The teller was not entitled to the windall. For that matter, neither was the bank.

    If you could have somehow contacted the original depositor and wanted to pass the premium back to them that's one thing, but to hand found money to someone who had no ownership of it makes no sense to me.

    The teller took the roll from her own personal SDB.

    She went to her private/personal safe deposit box?? Wow - that's customer service!

    That's a good thing that you did, in that case.

  • RollermanRollerman Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is there a photo of the NGC Black holder anywhere?

    "Ain't None of Them play like him (Bix Beiderbecke) Yet."
    Louis Armstrong
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,233 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2024 9:38PM

    Unless the black holder thing is reflected in CDN bid not sure recognize the extra value on it. That’s seems more like some speculative, collector BS thing IMO. Would just put zero on that piece of it. So my offer a pct of CDN bid on the 3 or 4 - depending on inventory needs, where they are in the grade range, what could flip for, and current market conditions. Would lay the cash out in front of them taking the deal and treat them as fairly as any walkup sellers off the bourse.

    Yes Martin agree buyers out to get a good rip at a garage sale - low ball heck out of sellers par for the course.

    Coins & Currency
  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,522 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Every day major rips happen on ebay. One of the members here bought one of the rare 1812 Bust halves out of DC for a little over a hundred that made 100X more who threatened people with a lawsuit if anyone scotched the deal. Contracts are based on knowing parties who not impaired or under duress. Fair dealing is integral to the strength of the hobby.

  • MetroDMetroD Posts: 2,198 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Rollerman said:
    Is there a photo of the NGC Black holder anywhere?

    See AUG-1987 @ https://www.ngccoin.com/about/evolution-of-ngc-holder/

  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is there such a thing as " more honest than thou"?
    It gets to a point where the honesty (a good thing) starts to feel postured and finessed into something possibly a bit less honest?
    🤔

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,190 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CircCam said:
    I once saw a nice original mid-grade 1866 IHC, asked for the price, was quoted 30 dollars by the employee after they consulted the sheet, and I bought it (there’s a weird smattering of expensive vs. cheap dates in that series but I knew it couldn’t be a bad deal being a 60’s date.)

    Pulled up CoinFacts in the car and realized she must have misread the price, so I went back in to return the coin as I didn’t want her to get in trouble over it. I found out later she got in trouble BECAUSE I went back and called it out. Perhaps it saved the owner (and her) from a worse blunder down the road but was a case where I felt worse for doing the “right” thing and actually felt selfish like I got the gal in trouble in the name of clearing my own conscience. Ah, ethics….

    I’ll give you $35

    :D
    kidding

  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Also, really love it when "the Dealer" makes his appearance in these threads... brings the bourse right to my living room, reveals once again what a bunch of amateurs we are..
    🤤

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