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Another dealer has home broken into and robbed while out to eat.

jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,314 ✭✭✭✭✭

Received an email from NCIC for Numismatic Crimes. Another dealer from Falling Waters, WV, not far from Hagerstown, MD, had their home robbed after attending a coin show in Timonium, MD. Came home, unloaded inventory into house and went to eat for an hour and a half and came home to find the robbery had occurred. They listed several pages of coins stolen.
I am so sorry for this dealer. It's always easy to say what should have been done, after the deed, but dealers do need to come up with a plan for these robberies as they seem to be happening more often and with similar methods. I'm sure a procedure could be developed to limit the possibility of this occurrence.
Again, my condolences for the dealers situation.
Jim


When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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    WAYNEASWAYNEAS Posts: 6,353 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So sad and upsetting.
    Wayne

    Kennedys are my quest...

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    GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭✭

    It's gotten to the point where you almost have to ASSUME that you are being followed or someone will try and rob you.

    Can't go straight home...can't unload stuff at home or another location unless guarded/watched...and a very heavy safe or secure room not a bad idea.

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    Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They should hire a qualified, full time investigator to help look into these crimes. I know one if they’re looking 😬

    BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.

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    TypekatTypekat Posts: 161 ✭✭✭

    The problem now is not someone following you, which you can thwart with a few precautionary manuvers.

    But once they slip a little tracker somewhere underneath your car, you’re as good as robbed already.

    30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!

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    Postal workers are trained to spot people following the vans and collecting delivered packages.
    I think coin vendors need to be trained in modern crime tactics so they can stop being such easy marks.
    Following a coin vendor home seems to be the new easy money as the upside is huge and the risk is as low as robbing a liquor store, less even.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

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    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,830 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 27, 2024 12:49PM

    @Dave99B said:
    Build more prisons for these guys. 6 men to a cell.

    Dave

    Sure, that will work.

    In today's current lawlessness environment, I wouldn't be advertising coin and currency shows........period!

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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    GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Booby Trap your coins with a couple pounds of C4,,,,, that will stop them.

    GrandAm :)
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    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,830 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You're not solving the problem with this nonsense!

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,314 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just hire someone to set up in a parked vehicle and photograph the cars followig you with driver pic and tag pic. All you need to do is make a turn down a street that you never use and make a turn, turn, turn, turn to be back on original road. Anyone following is up to no good.
    I would also hire an off duty policeman to escort you to and from arena. Wouldn't cost much and certainly worth it.
    Nothing is fool proof, but something is better than nothing.
    Perhaps Coin shows could offer delivering your inventory to a bank service and you could pickup at your convenience. Might be expensive, but not if all did it. Good for locals but not long distance travelers.
    Just throwing things out. If everyone did so, perhaps a relatively successful process could be developed. If trackers are available then jammers may be also.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm sorry for their loss. I'm just happy no one got hurt or killed as well 🙂

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    JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    States mean a lot.

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 27, 2024 1:29PM

    I've seen people escorted to thir autos then waited till they left. As a courtesy as I see it at a coin that I go to

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    JW77JW77 Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 27, 2024 1:39PM

    stop at bank on way home to deposit coins in safe deposit, or make sure well hidden/secured in home. Leave a few low end or counterfeit coins in plain sight for the thieves. Crooks don't like to leave without finding something of "value".

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    Project NumismaticsProject Numismatics Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JW77
    @johnny9434
    @jesbroken
    @RiveraFamilyCollect

    Most of you are missing the point - the criminals are often using GPS tracking devices attached to the car. GPS trackers are cheap and readily available.

    No amount of parking lot escorts, turns, stops at a bank (a terrible idea for multiple reasons!) or photographing cars will 100% prevent this. They can follow you miles back, out of sight, and are waiting until you stop for a driving break or arrive at a destination.

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    I don't think advocating for coin vendors to be trained to be harder marks is missing the point.
    I actually like the idea that others have mentioned here about putting airtag like devices with your inventory. A cheap tracked could prove invaluable if your inventory has been stolen. Fighting fire with fire as it were.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

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    AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So there was no alarm at the house?

    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,314 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Project Numismatics
    What I get from your viewpoint is that there is nothing you can do. I heartily disagree. Maybe there are instances where not much can be done, but there is. If you never take coins to your residence, then they cannot be stolen from your residence.
    So many things can be done that might prevent one or two of these less educated thieves should at least be tried. But to give up and say oh well, IIWII, sucks.
    Besides gps tracking devices must emit signals, therefore they can be jammed. We had jamming devices in B52's that we weren't allowed to turn on in the shop because it would jam the whole east coast. I'm sure 50 years later the same devices could be picked up. We know the gps signal range, so why not?
    Jim

    What is the frequency of GPS jammer?
    Caractéristiques
    Frequency GPS jammer L2 1200-1300MHz
    Frequency GPS jammer L1 1500-1600 MHz
    Transmitting power canal 1 dBm / 100 KHz
    Size 112 mm (H) x 62 mm (L) x 30mm (D) without antenna
    Weight 2.7 watt GPS jammer 244g


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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    jeffas1974jeffas1974 Posts: 314 ✭✭✭

    @Mr_Spud said:
    Or even better, put the trackers in hollowed out coins. Glue them shut so even if they crack out the coins they can still be tracked.

    Didn’t this happen in Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man with a Peace dollar? It was an absolute turd of a movie from the late 80s/early 90s so it’s quite possible the reference might get lost.

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    Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 4,455 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I googled “tracker hollow coin” and found a post on a Reddit silver stacker forum that said it would be easier to do with a hollowed out 10 ounce silver bar. They said the current ones already available would fit into one of those.

    Mr_Spud

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    You could put an airtag in a knockoff PCGS holder and stick it with the slabbs.
    You don't need to make a fake bullion to hide the tracker.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

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    mikee999mikee999 Posts: 531 ✭✭✭✭

    How about establishing a coin budd(ies) system:

    1. Of course you have to have to trust that dealers/collectors & vice versa.
    2. Ensure they will be home during your meal break.
    3. Turn your inventory/$$ to them at their home while you dine.
    4. Pick up your stuff when you’re done eating.
    5. Do the same for them when they go out to dine.
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    Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 900 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Creative ideas guys.
    Personally I think if your a serious seller and you have a sizeable inventory you need the following-
    A serious safe.
    Not a lockbox but a safe. A heavy one with bolts that come out of the door to lock it. They weigh a substantial amount and can be bolted to the floor.
    A functioning house alarm if that's where you keep them.
    I wouldnt.
    Even if it's overnight before heading to the SDB.
    A house alarm is key.
    Modern house alarms don't have wires to cut.
    I would suggest a gun but as far as I'm concerned having a gunfight in my house or in public doesn't seem safe.
    Lastly, a good insurance policy with a well kept inventory.
    I hate to think that coin dealers are easy targets.
    They do not necessarily need to be.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA

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    PillarDollarCollectorPillarDollarCollector Posts: 4,787 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 27, 2024 4:59PM

    That is why I have all my best coins at my bank vault (and I am not rich so not many 1000$ coins or more) and a large bolted to the ground home safe (no way someone could lift this it is super heavy. I only keep coins at home with a value of 250$ or less the rest always goes to the bank vault no matter what and I never take them out I have images and that is enough.

    I also have a home security (alarm and cameras) and my front door would be next to impossible to kick in I made sure of that when I purchased it. I also have lights outside and bars on my outside windows. And one of my neighbours is a cop and we have gotten along well for many many years. It is a safe place to live but I take no chances there are some evil people in this world. Police response in my area is very fast.

    Best to keep all you important paper work in your bank safe vault as well.

    Collecting interests: Coins from Latin American (2020-present)

    Sports: NFL & NHL

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    BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AMRC said:
    So there was no alarm at the house?

    Or cameras?

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,219 ✭✭✭✭✭

    or dogs?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    nwcoastnwcoast Posts: 2,845 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This video has some helpful tips which may help detect Apple AirTag’s and other gps devices, though it mostly is directed at preventing auto thefts, there are some tools mentioned which may be applicable.
    https://youtu.be/OfXyRUwvQ8Q?si=bJc407z2xjwgjZCC

    Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014

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    Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 4,455 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That’s a good video. It says you can detect the presence of the trackers with your phone. That sounds do-able

    Mr_Spud

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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,219 ✭✭✭✭✭

    it takes some amount of time before a phone will detect and decide you have an airtag following you

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    humanssuckhumanssuck Posts: 320 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Get good insurance.

    After that, live your life and enjoy your coins. Worst case, you get a check and get to go shopping.

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    seduloussedulous Posts: 3,099 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Booby trap your sealed coins with explosive ink that doesn't come off their skin. Works great in a police line-up.

    A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.

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    2windy2fish2windy2fish Posts: 817 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very helpful information here, thank you all for helping keep everyone a little bit safer.

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    rte592rte592 Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1madman said:
    Seems like the easiest thing would be just get a rental car to go to the show. After the show is over drive back to the rental company and retrieve your personal car. Let the thief air tag the rental, who cares.

    And have a second person helping you transfer the inventory to the other car. Maybe even run interference on the way home.

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    GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭✭

    @Typekat said:
    The problem now is not someone following you, which you can thwart with a few precautionary manuvers.
    But once they slip a little tracker somewhere underneath your car, you’re as good as robbed already.

    Like ballparks, don't these venues have VIP or secluded parking for vendors ? If it is enclosed, should be pretty easy to make sure no tracking devices can be put on cars. 1 or 2 attendants can keep watch in a gated area.

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    or dogs?

    Maybe mean one's to

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    jeffas1974jeffas1974 Posts: 314 ✭✭✭

    @humanssuck said:
    Get good insurance.

    After that, live your life and enjoy your coins. Worst case, you get a check and get to go shopping.

    The worst case is what might happen if the thieves break into your house after you leave thinking it’s empty but find that your family is still there.

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    Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 6,725 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:

    @AMRC said:
    So there was no alarm at the house?

    Or cameras?

    That’s what I was thinking as well.
    Home security cameras are such an affordable way to have that extra layer of security and peace of mind.

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    knovak1976knovak1976 Posts: 222 ✭✭✭

    @jesbroken said:

    Besides gps tracking devices must emit signals, therefore they can be jammed. We had jamming devices in B52's that we weren't allowed to turn on in the shop because it would jam the whole east coast. I'm sure 50 years later the same devices could be picked up. We know the gps signal range, so why not?
    Jim

    My dad was an EWO on the B-52 for 17 years! Certainly had a jamming system you didn’t want to mess with from what I’ve read! 😉

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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,314 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @knovak1976 said:

    @jesbroken said:

    Besides gps tracking devices must emit signals, therefore they can be jammed. We had jamming devices in B52's that we weren't allowed to turn on in the shop because it would jam the whole east coast. I'm sure 50 years later the same devices could be picked up. We know the gps signal range, so why not?
    Jim

    My dad was an EWO on the B-52 for 17 years! Certainly had a jamming system you didn’t want to mess with from what I’ve read! 😉

    Two things regarding cameras: 1) everyone I know buys junk cameras that you cannot id anyone in court.
    2) they put the cameras in the eaves or elsewhere up high. Most thieves wear caps with hoodies to prevent their face being seen. I placed my cameras in the lower walls pointing 45° upward.
    I was an EWR on F4's and EB66's. Trained on B52's for 14 months and they showed me an F4 and bam I was an F4 specialist and spent 3 years in Germany. lol
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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    horseyridehorseyride Posts: 124 ✭✭✭

    Why not just park NEAR a venue, then take an uber or taxi to final destination and reverse? How would someone track you then?

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    Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 900 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @horseyride said:
    Why not just park NEAR a venue, then take an uber or taxi to final destination and reverse? How would someone track you then?

    I believe that many of these thieves are not stupid.
    They probably "case them out". Watch their behavior.
    Maybe not hit them the first time. Sad to say but it's true. I really hate when this happens. It's the way things are in this world today. We all have to look over our shoulder.
    I want to rewind the clock to 1950.
    Last thing I will say is I am glad the victim was not harmed.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA

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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,640 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2024 7:34AM

    That’s really horrible what those thieves doing. Very scary. Is there a device or phone app that one can tell if tracker on one’s car?

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These type of robberies are all to common anymore. Most I'm sure involve more than one person committing the crime. Any john doe can walk into a coin show. Most likely 2 or more criminals are scoping out large collection buyers and/or large inventory sellers. And as much technology we have to take precautions to protect ourselves, these high dollar thieves have just as much technology to evade those measures. As much as crime has risen across this country, the police are overwhelmed. Even with cameras and alarms, most criminals are never recognized or are gone before police can ever respond. Vigilance is left to the possible victim to protect himself, his family and his possessions. People must always be mindful today that they can and may be a victim of crime one day. The most we can do is do the best we can do to prevent it from happening. Be aware of your surroundings. Always take pictures and if possible, serial numbers or as in coin slabs, slab numbers and keep a written inventory. Most things are not replaceable, but personal property insurance should always be a must. As most have mentioned, a heavy duty secured safe is good or possibly a hidden safe or lockbox is good. Thieves like to work fast and will usually give up if too much time is taken to find valuables. Rely on yourself for protection because no one else is going to care as much as you do!

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