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a very good argument for buying gold

derrybderryb Posts: 36,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 26, 2024 5:49PM in Precious Metals

Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭✭

    Wars are also deflationary.

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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldFinger1969 said:
    Wars are also deflationary.

    not when they are financed with newly printed money.

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 27, 2024 11:47AM

    @derryb said:
    not when they are financed with newly printed money.

    Doesn't matter.

    I am sure if someone told you the monetary and debt situation in 2024 way back in 2019...or 2010....or 2000...or 1990...or 1980...you would be throwing out words like inflation, hyperinflation, economic collapse, etc.

    Economics is NOT a linear science. :)

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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldFinger1969 said:

    @derryb said:
    not when they are financed with newly printed money.

    Doesn't matter.

    so, increasing the money supply does not create price increases? LOL
    money supply and inflation are linear, they have a direct relationship.

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    I take issue with saying "Economics is NOT a linear science." because as far as I can tell it is literally a linear science. We just suck as sussing out all the variables.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

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    GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    so, increasing the money supply does not create price increases? LOL
    money supply and inflation are linear, they have a direct relationship.

    That's right....Quantity Theory Of Money...... MV = PQ

    We've had tons of money printing the last 40 years, and aside from 2021-22 after the pandemic, it has not showed up in inflation. Which is why the Fear Mongers and Gold Bugs have been so wrong. :)

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    GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭✭

    @RiveraFamilyCollect said:
    I take issue with saying "Economics is NOT a linear science." because as far as I can tell it is literally a linear science. >We just suck as sussing out all the variables.

    Things work differently in the Real World as opposed to in a textbook. The latter is a guide, the former reality.

    You're right to focus on variables -- they are infinite. "All else equal" is NOT equal. :)

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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You’ll get no argument out of me. I can find a couple thousand reasons to agree.

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    HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Economics is absolutely not linear. In fact, since an economic system is a complex system (in the mathematical sense rather than the casual sense of that term), an economy is about as non linear as you can get. The equation MV = PQ does not mean that prices are linearly related to the amount of money, because V is not a constant.

    Higashiyama
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    FrankHFrankH Posts: 779 ✭✭✭✭✭

    GOLD IS ANONYMOUS WEALTH !!!
    Not much else is.

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    EstilEstil Posts: 6,922 ✭✭✭✭

    But what about buy low, sell high?

    WISHLIST
    Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
    Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
    74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
    1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Estil said:
    But what about buy low, sell high?

    sometimes the high is the new low.

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FrankH said:
    GOLD IS ANONYMOUS WEALTH !!!
    Not much else is.

    Hard assets such as gold and real estate are real wealth. Paper products including currencies are anonymous wealth - someone else can drive their value into the ground. Look at what central banks are doing to their own currency.

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 8, 2024 8:37AM

    Here are all the reasons you need to buy gold:

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The reason to own gold is to get away from the privately-owned banking cartel that wants you as their very own debt slave.

    Jim Sinclair’s advice was always to “Get Out of the System.”

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    The reason to own gold is to get away from the privately-owned banking cartel that wants you as their very own >debt slave.
    Jim Sinclair’s advice was always to “Get Out of the System.”

    How has his "advice" been from an investment POV ? :o

    Yeah, didn't think so. :D

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    BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Systems all boil down to trust, confidence, and belief. Prices reflected via opinions.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How has his "advice" been from an investment POV ?

    Not necessarily his advice, but I couldn't be happier about the gold I've accumulated. I'm going to sell some 1/10th ozers this year to finance a home improvement project that will net me > $20,000 energy tax credit and leave me with $80,000 to re-invest. I have to have a capital gain to capture the tax credit, so I'll have to live with the 540% profit since I bought them in 2000.

    Yeah, didn't think so.

    I love it when a plan comes together. You thought wrong.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭✭

    The point is alot of these Carnival Barkers are touts who have LOUSY money management returns and records.

    If they don't post them -- it's because they stink. :D

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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    ...finance a home improvement project that will net me > $20,000 energy tax credit...

    See, everyone gets free Govt handouts.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @jmski52 said:
    ...finance a home improvement project that will net me > $20,000 energy tax credit...

    See, everyone gets free Govt handouts.

    They only consider it a "handout" when it doesn't apply to them. LOL. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2024 7:04AM

    If it’s so free, and if you have such great financial acumen, why aren’t both of you doing the same? After all, you say that it’s “free”.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    If it’s so free, why aren’t both of you doing the same? After all, you say that it’s “free”.

    Cuz I don't I don't want solar panels on my roof. Produce the panels $20k cheaper and make the homeowner pay the whole bill instead of the taxpayer subsidizing.

    It's taxpayer backed handout.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Don't put them on your roof. After all, you say that it's "free".

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    If it’s so free, and if you have such great financial acumen, why aren’t both of you doing the same? After all, you say that it’s “free”.

    My locale isn't a good fit. Solar panels don't like snow and it doesn't help that we see as many cloud days as the Pacific Northwest. Perhaps if I resided in a more solar friendly climate and I decided they were a good idea I would simply go out and buy them. I certainly wouldn't be doing it to collect the gooberment handout. THKS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2024 7:30AM

    I wouldn't be doing it either if the gooberment didn't have plans to eliminate oil & gas - one of the absolutely most stupid policies that I can imagine.

    Do you refuse any gooberment benefits? Asking for a friend.

    if I resided in a more solar friendly climate and I decided they were a good idea I would simply go out and buy them. I certainly wouldn't be doing it to collect the gooberment handout.

    I kinda doubt that.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    Do you refuse any gooberment benefits? Asking for a friend.

    Those stimmy checks from the previous administration were great. Free Au in me pocket. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    I wouldn't be doing it either if the gooberment didn't have plans to eliminate oil & gas - one of the absolutely most stupid policies that I can imagine.

    Do you refuse any gooberment benefits? Asking for a friend.

    if I resided in a more solar friendly climate and I decided they were a good idea I would simply go out and buy them. I certainly wouldn't be doing it to collect the gooberment handout.

    I kinda doubt that.

    Tax credits are handouts jmski.

    Eventually oil will be relegated to 3rd world status, as I said back in 2008 in this forum. But you and I will be long dead and today's technology iwill antiquated by then.

    You've been hoodwinked.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I do agree with you that solar, and many other things shouldn't be subsidized by my tax dollars. Neither should the banking system or the military contractors.

    But you said it's all "free", when it's obviously not free.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2024 8:46AM

    @jmski52 said:
    I do agree with you that solar, and many other things shouldn't be subsidized by my tax dollars. Neither should the banking system or the military contractors.

    But you said it's all "free", when it's obviously not free.

    You're right, it not "free". It comes out of other taxpayers' pockets.

    Tax credits and subsidies do nothing but keep prices high and stifle technology.....and buy votes.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    Peter89Peter89 Posts: 66 ✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    The reason to own gold is to get away from the privately-owned banking cartel that wants you as their very own debt slave.

    .
    In other words, the reason to own gold is to stop using their currency and to start using another, bank-independent currency.

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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Peter89 said:

    @jmski52 said:
    The reason to own gold is to get away from the privately-owned banking cartel that wants you as their very own debt slave.

    .
    In other words, the reason to own gold is to stop using their currency and to start using another, bank-independent currency.

    owning gold and getting away from the banking cartel simply means hold lots of gold and few dollars. When you need more dollars buy them at a discount (the gain in gold) with some of the gold.

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    _ it not "free". It comes out of other taxpayers' pockets._

    Wrong, it's MY money that came out of MY pocket in the first place. All that's happening is that I'm not paying more tax on the same money when I sell gold that has kept pace with government-created inflation.

    Tax credits and subsidies do nothing but keep prices high and stifle technology.....and buy votes.

    Tax credits and subsidies are nothing more than social engineering. What keeps prices going higher is the banking system creating money out of nothing and giving it to their bought politicians.

    I'm not sure how a tax credit stifles technology. Tax credits are definitely geared more towards social engineering.

    What most effectively buys votes is the banking cartel pumping money into the bond market at will, creating the illusion that big government spending programs can be funded forever with new "free money" straight out of the clear blue sky.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2024 4:41AM

    @jmski52 said:
    I'm not sure how a tax credit stifles technology. Tax credits are definitely geared more towards social engineering.

    What is the incentive to make a product better and cheaper when you can get the Govt to foot the bill?

    And you've been socially engineered.

    No money dropping out if the clear blue sky at my house. Must be cool sight at yours though. I do have a few money trees that I planted myself and fertilized and pruned that are producing a bountiful harvest.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What's the problem coho. No gains to offset?

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    Favorite Topic.

    Gold is breaking out of an eight year technical cup with handle. This fact draws in a lot of very wealthy investors. Technically, based only on this current breakout, gold may go to 3000 before a severe turn. Of course, technicians have been wrong before.

    The discussions on all the factors influencing gold price and value is just mental masterbation.

    Production cost is what really affects gold's value. The average AISC July 2023 was about $1350 and rising at 10% per year. This coming July AISC will be a great test of world inflation over the past year, relative to gold production. At 10% per year, AISC will double every 7.2 years.

    Price has nothing to do with value. Price is a moving target, an artificial point determined by supply and demand. Many times gold has been priced below AISC causing consolidation of and/or bankrupting mining companies.

    The famous and foolish tulipmania price bubble occured 1634 and has been repeated countless times. Everything that is priced will suffer a bubble and a burst but there is a way to protect yourself from a foolish mistake.

    The key is to always set a sliding stop loss relative to a new high at around 8 to10%. When price drops that amount from the top, get out but be ready to re-enter if wrong. You can sustain a few 8% errors but it is difficult to recover from a 50% error. A 50% error will require a doubling of price to get even.

    This is not financial advice, just comments from an old guy's experience and observation.

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The discussions on all the factors influencing gold price and value is just mental masterbation.

    I respectfully disagree. The fact that "technicians have been wrong before" doesn't add any validity to the proposition that the reason wealthy investors may be buying gold because of a cup with handle chart formation. Chart reading is an exercise in analyzing historical trends, and that's about all.

    If you don't believe that changes in the IMF status of gold as a Tier 1 asset has no bearing on the price of gold, you are ignoring an important fundamental. Likewise, if you believe that the coalescing of the BRICs around a commodity-based trading system will have no impact on gold pricing, you are ignoring another important fundamental.

    The key is to always set a sliding stop loss relative to a new high at around 8 to10%. When price drops that amount from the top, get out but be ready to re-enter if wrong. You can sustain a few 8% errors but it is difficult to recover from a 50% error. A 50% error will require a doubling of price to get even.

    Setting up sophisticated trading systems based on technical chart readings is overly-dependent upon "the trend is your friend" thinking, and while you might generate profits for awhile, you had better be nimble enough to compete with the banks & Wall Street firms engaged in HFT and market manipulation. Good luck with that.

    Oh, and I must respectfully disagree that "Price is a moving target, an artificial point determined by supply and demand." Actually, it's the paper derivatives complex that establishes an artificial price in the Comex and LBMA. The real prices of gold and silver are established by supply and demand of the real bullion in transactions involving physical metal. Anything else is manipulation and smoke.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    What's the problem coho. No gains to offset?

    Dang taxman wants my money tree to pay for your solar panels.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dang taxman wants my money tree to pay for your solar panels.

    Like I said already, it's my own tax money coming back to me, not your tax money. If you had bought gold when I did, you too would have gains that need offsetting.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Certainly wish I was able to utilize the solar panels up here in The Commonwealth. The efficiency still sucks now but one day the earth will be completely powered via solar.....Probably well past our lifetimes but it will be a glorious day for all of humanity no doubt.......assuming humanity still exists. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • Options
    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    Dang taxman wants my money tree to pay for your solar panels.

    Like I said already, it's my own tax money coming back to me, not your tax money. If you had bought gold when I did, you too would have gains that need offsetting.

    I understand that you think that way, as this is the social engineering at work, but tax credits are just subsidies, which are handouts.

    I own gold, and I own other assets that have--by orders of magnitude--outperformed gold. I hope you enjoy your solar panels. Your notion that one needs tax credits to offset gains is quite naive.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • Options
    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2024 6:53PM

    Yes, it's social engineering, and I anticipate that energy costs are going to continue to increase. I'm not even a fan of solar, but it's inevitable that the morons in DC will continue to mismanage the economy and everything else that they can get their hands on. So be it.

    I own gold, and I own other assets that have--by orders of magnitude--outperformed gold. I hope you enjoy your solar panels. Your notion that one needs tax credits to offset gains is quite naive.

    What's naive is not using tax law to offset your gains. How are you planning to manage your "other assets that have outperformed gold". When you liquidate, are you simply planning to pay the 28% cap gains (or more, in the future)?

    Now THAT would be naive. And dumb.

    I would guess that your hot assets revolve around some type of tax planning, and what you would call "a subsidy" if it weren't you doing it.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭✭

    All in cash costs for gold are probably about $1,400 an ounce.

    Total cost per ounce is probably closer to $1,600. And with cost of capital, $1,800 or so.

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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2024 3:12AM

    @jmski52 said:
    Yes, it's social engineering, and I anticipate that energy costs are going to continue to increase. I'm not even a fan of solar, but it's inevitable that the morons in DC will continue to mismanage the economy and everything else that they can get their hands on. So be it.

    I own gold, and I own other assets that have--by orders of magnitude--outperformed gold. I hope you enjoy your solar panels. Your notion that one needs tax credits to offset gains is quite naive.

    What's naive is not using tax law to offset your gains. How are you planning to manage your "other assets that have outperformed gold". When you liquidate, are you simply planning to pay the 28% cap gains (or more, in the future)?

    Now THAT would be naive. And dumb.

    Maybe if you hadn't cashed in your IRA you wouldnt be in such a tax predicament. You paid tax when you cashed in your IRA to buy PMs and now pay tax again when you sell them. That doesn't seem too smart.

    Also, you should renew your knowledge of tax rates.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • Options
    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Don't tell me that you own your gold in an IRA! Oh my.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    Don't tell me that you own your gold in an IRA! Oh my.

    I won't because I don't. And i don't even understand why you would have such ideas based on my comment of you taxing yourself twice.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2024 5:25AM

    World Bank reveals why central banks are dumping greenbacks for gold

    One of the reasons:
    ". . . geopolitical uncertainties caused by financial sanctions imposed on Russia to freeze its foreign reserves, reinforced the strategic importance of gold as a buffer against financial instability."

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,380 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2024 9:22AM

    i don't even understand why you would have such ideas based on my comment of you taxing yourself twice.

    Tell me how I'm taxing myself twice. It seems you can't fathom how I've managed my gold holdings. It's not that hard. You can figure it out if you try.

    Also, explain how you plan to deal with the tax liability from your gains in gold, if it's true that you own so much gold. This should be real interesting.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,007 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    Certainly wish I was able to utilize the solar panels up here in The Commonwealth. The efficiency still sucks now but one day the earth will be completely powered via solar.....Probably well past our lifetimes but it will be a glorious day for all of humanity no doubt.......assuming humanity still exists. RGDS!

    .

    Why the doom and gloom and rooting for the demise of humanity ?
    You need to come out of the woodshed once in a while.

    .

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