8 Sol, Bolivian Republic coinage (1827-1863) Master Thread
SimonW
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I would like to start a perpetual discussion about the Bolivian Republic Coinage (1827-1863.) These "Crown" sized coins are currently the most popular coins produced in Bolivia during this time period, and while they are crudely made most of the time, they occasionally exist in wonderful states of preservation. The 8 sol is the most collectable series within the time period also because they were produced, almost across the board, in larger quantities than any of the minors.
This thread is about education. Feel free to post pics, that's very welcome, but if you know anything about the coin, that's even better. I'm trying to expand my own knowledge and hopefully the knowledge of anyone who reads this also!
I fully realize this may turn into a thread that I alone post on, and that's ok, lol!
The first style Bolivar head is produced from 1827-1840. All dates are available with a some patience, though some assayer's marks are much more uncommon than others. In higher quality some are exceedingly hard to come by, if you're just trying to do a date set and if grade isn't an issue, most can be had without too much trouble.
Here is my first post, it is an 1838 8 Sol, LM assayer. Graded AU55 by our host. This one is a bit of a looker, some blue toning and a well above average strike. Any time you can see the sideburns and design on the lapel, it means you have a decent strike. This isn't the most powerful strike out there, you can see a few weaknesses, especially on the reverse llama on the left, but it's pretty good. Frequently you'll find strikes that make the coin look like a VF when it's actually a full MS coin, the strikes can be that bad, and it isn't an uncommon occurrence. If you want a type coin, hold out for a really nice one, they come to market with some regularity. If you're putting together a set, sometimes you just gotta take what you can get.
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Comments
This short lived type in the 8 sol run is quite different from the other busts of Bolivar. I’m not sure if they really know what he looked like anyway, but below are some representations. The one being a “scientific” rendering based on anatomy and genetics.
This 1851 is one of the commonest of the type. There are also 1851/0 and 1851 MF major varieties.
This is quite a charming coin, if you can ignore those pesky ticks in front of bolivar. Very nice color and wonderful luster.
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Not to hijack your thread, but here’s the French rendition. By Barre.
Latin American Collection
@pruebas not a high jacking at all. Completely germane. Cool medal, yours? What’s the history?
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It is a metal impression (probably made by electro-deposition) of the original plaster model. This piece would then be put in the reduction pantograph to make the beginning of the master hub. Legends and other elements were added by hand afterward.
No, it’s not mine. I had a fairly low bid on it, which clearly didn’t win.
So this was pretty big I assume? Do you know measurements?
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It was supposedly for the 1873 1 Venezolano. 185mm. It hammered at €7500.
Wasn't there a set of patterns at Heritage a while back featuring that bust by Barre?
8 Reales Madness Collection
The pattern with an alternative portrait. Not mine, but on my wish list.
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Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
>
Didn’t the 4 sol of this pattern sell a couple years ago?
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The 4 Soles:
I actually like the 4 Sol a little better, the proportions of bolivar are less forced and thin looking. Did you get this one @MrEureka ?
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Sadly, no. Can't buy it all.
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And if one goes to the NGC certification page, you can see some scratches on the coin that do not show up or are not mentioned on the auction description.
Still with those details I will like to have a coin like this.
Yeah, I noticed those @ELuis , during the sale. They’re pretty small though, I don’t think they’re outside of what might be expected for a 63. What I find interesting is all the die scratches around the “Bolivar”, where they tried to fix up the die before striking. That’s what it looks like to me anyway.
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Saw those on the Bolivar word, do not know.
If one looks the slabbed coin, the scratches do not show up, something they did to fix that.
Anyway, nice coin as-is.
This one has a great strike on the reverse, average strike on the obverse. I’ve seen worse, but there are better strikes out there. It’s a very pretty coin, but the PCGS images are off, in my opinion.
1835 doesn’t seem to have a whole lot of “curiosities” to the date. I’ll have to do more research, but I’m not aware of any major varieties or errors.
This one is an AU55
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Hi everybody. Does anybody have some information about this type?
MrEureka, can you point the source of the photo? One man wants to know and he has another photo.
Peace.
That’s not a different photo, that’s a distinct coin. Do we know how many were minted? How many survive?
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Fun to see the chops on these
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One of the early coins in the series, the 1829 seems to be available without too much difficulty, strikes seem to be all over the place. This one, while quite attractive in my estimation, suffers from a fairly weak strike on the obverse. If not for an abundance of luster, this coin may easily have been relegated to the XF range, until you realize that the reverse has very little wear, which leads me to my conclusion that the obverse has some wear, but more than that, just a weak strike.
There’s at least one variety with an inverted “V” serving as an “A.”
These seem to be the most available of the first three years, followed by the 1827 and, lastly, 1828. The 1828 8 sol is a difficult little bugger in high grade, or even problem free mid-grade.
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Some real beauties you guys have posted!!! I have yet to read my Simon Bolivar book guess I will get that done sometime this year. He is truly an important historical figure.
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The "one man" above has registered here with nickname "genose" but he can't post messages. I ask moderator to activate this member. So here is his thinking about this type:
Hello, friends!
I am sorry for my English.
I am writing using Google Translate.
I have been looking for information on this 1827 8 Sols pattern coin for a long time. Here's what I found: on July 10, 1826, Bolivia passed its second currency law.
The law stipulated that the obverse of the silver coins would bear the image of the President of Bolivia - Marshal Antonio José de Sucre.
However, Sucre did not agree that his image should appear on silver coins and suggested that Simon Bolivar be depicted there. Sucre sent a new draft law to the Bolivian Congress, which was approved on November 14 and signed by the President on November 20.
Engraver Pedro Venavides used a Peruvian victory medal for the 1825 Battle of Ayacucha as the official portrait of Bolivar. By December 21, the new stamps that Venavides and his assistants were working on were ready. 8 Sol coins with the new design were minted and issued into circulation starting in February 1827 in a quantity of 1,599,000 copies.
And now the most interesting thing: whose portrait is on the pattern coin? If the official portrait of Bolivar is completely different, maybe the portrait of Sucre is on the pattern coin?
This is my 1827 coin. Please note that the reverse shows exactly the same split as on the pattern coin (in the red circle). This means that the pattern coin was definitely issued in Bolivia at the very end of 1826. The 4 Sol pattren coin shows that the inscription has been repaired. Maybe earlier the words Sucre were written there, and not Bolivar?
Peace.
@Sergey74
That’s very interesting, thank you for forwarding on the message, please also thank Genose. This is good stuff. It makes a lot of sense. I’ll have to check my own 1827 to see if it also has that die line. I was pretty sure the pattern had the same reverse as some of the 1827s meant for circulation, this is a great confirmation.
Where’d you find this info? Would it be a good resource to find out more? Mintage numbers and the like?
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SimonW, "genose" reads the theme and this forum. Perhaps he will write the answer himself or with me. If you can ask the moderator to activate his profile please do it, he has much information about the Latin America's coins.
Peace.
I love this one!
Here are a few more with chopmarks...
Something I've noticed about these coins is that they can tone with wild colors. My theory is the alloy composition was just a little different than other countries, leading to some neat colors.
I am very glad that my information was interesting and useful for you. This information is from various sources. Here is, for example, information of mintage in 1827 .
Peace.
My 1850 coin
Mint – Potosi
Assayers F.M. -** Fortunato Equivar and **Manuel Berrios
Engraver – Eugenio Mulón
Weight - 27.16 g
Mintage - 771,672
Eugenio Mulón was a prominent French master engraver who changed the symbolism of Bolivian coins and medals in the mid-19th century.
Eugenio Mulón initially worked as an engraver at the Santiago Mint. On December 28, 1847, he signed a contract with the Bolivian government and began working as an engraver at the Potosi Mint until 1852.
Fac quod debes, fiat quod fiet
That’s really great @genosse
Nice piece, great info! Where’d you find all that anyway? Have you been able to track down the mintage records? A book I’m not aware of? I’ve had a hard time finding that stuff. I haven’t yet tried the Spanish or Bolivian government yet however. 😅
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The most interesting thing happened when I did hydrostatic weighing of the coin.
The silver purity of the coin is approximately 0.801.
At the same time, the coin does not raise my suspicions as a contemporary counterfeit.
I know there is some idea that the mint(s) may have illicitly issued slightly debased coins.
And of course the "Moneda Feble" issue makes it complicated.
Fac quod debes, fiat quod fiet
What exactly information are you looking for?
I'll try to help as much as I can
Fac quod debes, fiat quod fiet
I’d really like to find mintage numbers for any and all of the silver Bolivian republic coins 1827-1863 of all denominations 8, 4, 2, 1 and 1/2.
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I have information for the years 1830-1858.
In this case, the mintage numbers of minor coinage (4, 2, 1 and ½ soles) is given in a total amount of pesos (peso = 8 soles)
Fac quod debes, fiat quod fiet
That’s wonderful, thank you!!! @genosse
Did this info come from a book? Publication?
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Numismatics International Bulletin for July-August 2014
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This one is pretty cool. Auctioned off recently, not my coin. Very rare “Constitucin” error. There are a couple in the census records, mostly problem coins. This one might be problem free.
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This is a recent addition. 1844 R. As far as I know “R” is the only assayer for the year. Not aware of any major varieties.
Mintage: 921,204, based on the above listed report. Mintage is a bit lower than surrounding years.
Wonderful strike on this piece, nicely original look. Probably ringing in at the low AU or high XF range. The great strike and toning makes it look less worn. Grade will depend on luster present, I don’t have it in hand yet.
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For information - the initials of the assayers on the 8 soles coins
1827-1829 ** J.M.** - Juan Palomo y Sierra and Diego Miguel Lopez Canto
1830 ** J.** - Juan Palomo y Sierra
1830-1831 ** J.F.** - Juan Palomo y Sierra and Fortunato Equivar
1831-1832 ** J.L.** - Juan Palomo y Sierra and Luis Lopez
Juan Palomo y Sierra and Luis de Aquilar
1833 ** L.** - Luis de Aquilar
1833-1838 ** L.M.** - Luis de Aquilar and Diego Miguel Lopez
1840-1843 ** L.R.** - Luis de Aquilar and Rafael Mariano Bustillo
1844-1847 ** R.** - Rafael Mariano Bustillo
1848 ** R.** - Manuel Telesforo Ramires
1848 ** M.** - Manuel Berrios
1849-1852 ** F.M.** - Fortunato Equivar and Manuel Berrios
1854 ** M.** - Manuel Berrios
1854 ** M.J.** - Manuel Berrios and Joaquin Zamborain
1859-1862 F.J. - Fortunato Equivar and Joaquin Zamborain
1862-1866 ** F.P.** - Fortunato Equivar and Pedro Zambrana
Fac quod debes, fiat quod fiet
For information - the initials of the assayers on the 8 soles coins
1827-1829 J.M. - Juan Palomo y Sierra and Diego Miguel Lopez Canto
1830 J. - Juan Palomo y Sierra
1830-1831 J.F. - Juan Palomo y Sierra and Fortunato Equivar
1831-1832 J.L. - Juan Palomo y Sierra and Luis Lopez
Juan Palomo y Sierra and Luis de Aquilar
1833 L. - Luis de Aquilar
1833-1838 L.M. - Luis de Aquilar and Diego Miguel Lopez
1840-1843 L.R. - Luis de Aquilar and Rafael Mariano Bustillo
1844-1847 R. - Rafael Mariano Bustillo
1848 R. - Manuel Telesforo Ramires
1848 M. - Manuel Berrios
1849-1852 F.M. - Fortunato Equivar and Manuel Berrios
1854 M. - Manuel Berrios
1854 M.J. - Manuel Berrios and Joaquin Zamborain
1859-1862 F.J. - Fortunato Equivar and Joaquin Zamborain
1862-1866 F.P. - Fortunato Equivar and Pedro Zambrana
I ask moderators to delete the first post
Fac quod debes, fiat quod fiet
That’s wonderful, thank you @genosse
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You have some beautiful coins Simon (as others do as well in this topic) thanks for sharing!!!
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Thank you sir! There are a lot nicer coins out there than what I’ve been able to put together in the 8 sol arena. I do try to get nicer looking ones when possible though.
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Thanks to someone writing to me I just found out about this thread. I have a number of these Bolivian crowns as well as some minors and particularly Monedas Especiales, or Special issues also known as Proclaimations.
I'll post 2 of my 8 Soles.
8 Soles, 1827, regular issue for circulation, NGC-63
8 Soles 1831, purchased as choice unc in 1997 in Houston, TX (sorry: no slab)
8 Soles 1846, also purchased as unc possibly in 2006, I have to check & see if it's slabbed or not
8 Escudos, 1837, NGC-62, (Heritage Auctions, Boston ANA, Aug 16th, 2010, lot# 20261)
I have more of them but will stop here for now. A bunch of these were bought a long time ago before slabbing of World Coins became common. Prices were also a lot lower then.
«Peso Frias» 1859
Mint - Potosi
Weight - 19.83 g
Composition - silver (.903)
Assayer F.J. - Fortunato Equivar and Joaquin Zamborain
This type of coin, with a weight reduced from 27 grams to 20 grams (400 Castilian grains), began to be minted according to the decree of August 17, 1859.
These coins were intended for the exchange of 4 soles coins (moneda feble with a purity of .666) among the population. At a nominal value of 8 soles, they were accepted only in Bolivia. In other countries (for example in Peru) they were accepted at a nominal value of 6 reales.
Fac quod debes, fiat quod fiet
Thanks so much for the tables of mintage figures. I wonder if you'd know of similar figures for other early Independence Latin American coinage? Early Argentina (1813-1852) seems to suffer from the same lack of published data.
I've only owned the 1852 and 1853 1/4 Sol but sold both in 2016.
Early Argentina (1813-1852) seems to suffer from the same lack of published data.
For Argentina, I only have information on coinage in 1813 and 1815.
In 1813, different authors have different data on coinage. Here they are shown in the table.
And data on coinage in 1815
Fac quod debes, fiat quod fiet