Bolivian Republic Minor Coinage (1827-1863) Master Thread
SimonW
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I would like to start a perpetual discussion about the Bolivian Republic Coinage (1827-1863.) The minor coinage doesn't get a lot of attention, which is good and bad in different ways, mostly good because I can pick-up really rare coins with very little competition, bad because there's not a whole lot of information about these coins. The 8 Soles are important too, and owing to the fact that most owners of Bolivian republic coinage have a single example and it's in the 8 sol category, I have decided to create a separate thread for just those coins, so as to not turn this thread into a 8 sol thread.
This thread is about education. Feel free to post pics, that's very welcome, but if you know anything about the coin, that's even better. I'm trying to expand my own knowledge and hopefully the knowledge of anyone who reads this also!
I fully realize this may turn into a thread that I alone post on, and that's ok, lol!
So here's my first pic. This is a coin from the La Paz mint. 1855 1/2 sol, it's a little guy, Graded AU50 by our host. This is frequently referred to as the "Ugly Head" because, well, it's ugly. This is deemed "rare" in Krause, but I don't think it's quite rare enough to deserve that appellation. It is certainly quite uncommon, this isn't the highest graded one out there, but it is quite a nice example. They don't come up all that often. There is a another version of this date from the La Paz mint, which is a little more common, sometimes referred to as the "Paz Head" (as seen below)
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I recently picked up this Paz 4 Soles.
It's an interesting series and one that I'm happy to learn more about.
Peace
Nice!
For anyone not familiar with this issue, it tends to come very well struck on the bust, as in this case, frequently it also has a healthy dose of die rust in front of Bolivar’s face, as seen here. A nice grade. An uncommon piece.
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Latin American Collection
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Oops!
Latin American Collection
Here’s a fun one!
1855 4 sol with “constitucin” error! It’s a tough variety. Bought this through a fellow Bolivia Republic collector. They’re pretty tough to find. One on eBay right now.
Somebody probably got fired over that mistake! Below is the corrected version.
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1858/7 Sol, La Paz mint. This is the less common of the two major varieties. Both the overdate and the plain date carry the same assayer’s mark, FJ.
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I just received this in the post and looks very nice in hand.
A little toned problem free 1 Sol 1828.
Peace
@Coinlover101 that’s a very attractive piece! One date I don’t have yet.
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This is the elusive 1827 2 soles. I’ve yet to find a really nice example, I have found two somewhat impaired pieces, however. One a straight grade despite some old toned over scratches , the other a VF details for tooling (I’d personally call it an XF.)
NGC census lists:
Straight Graded: VG and an MS62
Details: VF, AU and UNC
PCGS census lists:
Straight Graded: F12 (shown below) VF35
Details: VF (possibly more, they don’t seem to list details coins.)
A couple of these might be resubmissions, so we’re looking at 8 in TPG census, maybe as few as 6. A long time Bolivia collector I know thinks the survival rates are in the ten to twenty piece range, I think it’s more than that, but not by a lot, it’s a fairly rare coin.
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This is the little sister to the coin above. The only one I’ve been offered or seen for sale is the coin seen here. I’m not aware of any major varieties for this denomination and date, but studying the die varieties will be interesting, to see if anything major pops up.
Seemingly fairly rare, but there are some really nice high grade examples out there, which seems opposite from the 2 Sol version.
A very pretty example for the grade, PCGS VF30, I hope to upgrade eventually.
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These later date 1/2 Sol coins can be quite attractive. They seem to be available enough to satisfy current collector demand in grades up through choice uncirculated condition with a little patience. They tend to come with oodles of luster and, when toned are frequently quite charming. Strikes are kinda mushy, but I think that's just the design rather than the strike. Maybe some of both.
This one is an MS63 from the Dr. Parra collection. 1862. There's an overdate variety, an 1862/1, as well.
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This is another tough one. 1854 PAZ 2 Sol, F-VF in grade. Probably the most available of the 2 Sol coins from the Paz mint. Very tough though. A dozen or so certified between the two services.
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1854 MJ, PotosÍ, 2 Sol, PCGS AU50
A solid state of preservation. These show up occasionally it seems, but not with any regularity. As with most coins in this series, higher grades are much less common. If you look through the grading censuses however, you'll note that this is the lowest graded coin:
PCGS: AU50, MS63
NGC: MS62, MS63
While that might make one think that this issue is more abundant in higher grades, it really isn't. It's a function of people not sending in coins that won't increase the value commensurately by the act of certification. It's a cheap coin that doesn't trade very often. In three years this is the only one I have seen available for purchase, I got it for a measly $57. I'm a buyer all day long for any AU problem free 2 Sol coin at $57. I've said this before, but 2 Sol coins are by far the rarest of all the denominations, it's a very challenging set to attempt, let alone complete. This set will be a very long time in the making. I recently had this certified, and I think the grade fits nicely.
This is seemingly a coin from later in the die's career. Die chips and minor cracks have started to form. Makes for an interesting study. I do not know how many die pairs were used, but this one wouldn't have lasted a whole lot longer, I should think.
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Very nice coin Simon
And thank you for all the information that you provide regarding this series.
Edit. I'll just leave this here from the 8 Sol thread. Where did all the coins go?
Peace
Here is a little more information about mintage figures etc.
http://numismatics.org/digitallibrary/ark:/53695/nnan75697
Peace
That’s an interesting read, thank you
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This 1855 MJ 4 Sol arrived today.
Sellers pictures weren't great, so it was a bit of a gamble buying this, but picked it up for a good price. My pictures aren't great but at least this is what the coin looks like. There's actually a tiny bit of toning amongst the letters on the reverse ( not showing in photos).
Peace
^ Just to know a little bit - I have zero coins of this type, so for one of the same year in a little better condition that goes for $75 bucks is in a deal or the normal on a coin like this, raw.
@Eluis $75 for a nice AU sounds about right
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Thank you SimonW - Good to know, maybe one of these days will buy one.
This is a cool coin, highest grade for the variety, possibly for the date, I’ll have to double check.
1 Sol, inverted V variety.
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1/4 Sol 1853
1/4 Sol 1853...
Went yesterday to pick up my mail.
This is a small coin, in hand it looks really good, the condition I can say at least BU, in the sunlight you can see the patina and surfaces much better, will see where it ends up when I send it for grading. for a little research this is a rare one year type coin, I like the design on both sides, that was the main reason that I bought it.
It's a really neat piece @ELuis The first time I saw it I thought it was a proclaimation piece. It's not though.
What more do you know about it?
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Do not know much, mostly bought it for the design, after that did just some research, on places/auctions that were sold, they marked it as rare.Found some but holed and in not nice condition. This is my second coin from Potosi/Bolivia, the other is my 4R 1781-PTS PR PCGS VF35.
I'm thinking that this one is a keeper
Peace
@Coinlover101 that’s great! Nice find!!!
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This coin is a different die variety to the two listed higher up the thread which are also two different die varieties.
Peace
That's interesting. I've noticed it with other dates as well. My assumption is that most dies were poorly made and lasted only a short period of time, so even coins with small mintages would have multiple dies used. The survival rate of the 1827 is probably small enough (how small? no idea, haven't been able to find any kind of info on the matter) that you could reasonably expect that the run could have been done from a single die pair, but such doesn't seem to be the case. This means it's either a larger run than I suspected or the dies didn't last long. Since they were just starting to figure out how to make their own coins (they JUST became their own county) I assume the later is the case...supported by the fact that surrounding countries didn't accept the coins at the proposed value (they were deficient in silver, so there wasn't a large foreign demand.
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Here is a Bolivian escudo which I just got back from PCGS.
Very cool!
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There were 46,138 2 Soles struck in 1827.
From a previous guestimate that I made of the number of Irish gunmoney coins struck during wartime conditions during 1689 I'd say that there could possibly be 7-10 different dies for the 1827 2 Soles.
Both countries produced coins in less than ideal conditions in all aspects.
The article higher up in this thread states that many of the newer smaller Bolivian coinage was used for external trade and that the pieces were scarce even back then. No doubt due to the lower mintage numbers. This all changed in 1830 obviously when debasement created more problems.
I'm wondering how only 10-20 coins can remain from a mintage figure of over 46,000. I don't think that they were melted down.
Also are there pre-1830 coins from this series with holes in them or did this custom start in 1830?
Even if the custom did start in 1830 they would surely have holed the earlier coins to put on their necklaces etc.
Perhaps that's further evidence that the smaller 1827-29 coins were very scarce then.
Such an interesting series.
Peace
@Coinlover101
You’re right, we do have the mintage figure for 1827.
Yes, coins were very frequently holed during this time and in previous times, especially the minor denominations. These weren’t nearly as bad as the 1700’s coins as far as holes go, but it wasn’t infrequent. A highly economically poor population with a significant indigenous population. They’d tend to hole them so they could keep them secured on a string or in their clothes with some thread. Pockets were more common in the 1800’s in Bolivia than in previous eras, but weren’t necessarily the norm.
I think there are a few factors to consider with these cons. 1.
These were coins that nobody liked. They were seen as inferior. I think (just my opinion) they got scooped up and melted down to make better coins by neighboring countries.
There was a lack of small coinage in the area. The ones that were in circulation got used to death. Almost NOBODY thought it was a good idea to keep them.
Comparing these to other coinage from other countries is probably not a great comparison…especially coins from my native country (US.). By 1827 coin collecting had a pretty good following in the US. If we compare these to, say and 1828 US quarter, which has a mintage of 102,000 and a survival estimate of 1625. That’s roughly 1.6% survival rate.
738 would be a similar kind of survival population if conditions were similar to the 1828 quarter dollar, which is nearly impossible, they’re just not available at that level. Being such that the conditions were very different, I assume a max extant population closer to ten percent of that value. That would put it at roughly 75 pieces. That sounds reasonable, honestly. I don’t think there’s more than a hundred out there in all grades and conditions. Obviously I could be wrong, but in my research I haven’t been able to find more than about ten in the last three years that I’ve personally been looking, this includes auction data over the last thirty years at least. Actual figures must be more than twenty, but probably somewhere between twenty and a hundred.
Thoughts?
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This one is new. Currently being slabbed at PCGS. This one has a very distinct overdate 1860/60. Also has a upside down "A" in Boliviana.
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I wonder if that's a 1 under the 8?
Nice pick up Simon
Peace
To my eyes it looks like the whole date was repunched. You can clearly see the 6 and the 0 and something under the 6. If you assume that something is remnants of the 8, then 1 under the 8 makes sense. I think the original placement was deemed to close together, filled, and re-punched.
8 Reales Madness Collection
That makes sense. Perhaps the initial work of an apprentice?
Peace
Yeah, I think that's correct, complete repunch. It kills me that there's just a complete "6" just hanging out there 😂
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I have seen this in other coins, but most in other parts like on the image from a 1R noticed that small D below the larger D also the E below too. To me in this case it seems that it can be from a 1/2R, because of the larger and smaller letters. But just a guess.
Maybe in your case it could be, because that 6 and 0 are smaller, than the other date numbers.
@ELuis so you're thinking they started with the smaller 1/2 Real punches and then, realizing their mistake, changed them out for the larger ones? Makes sense I think.
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This one is kinda cool, 1861 2 Sol. It appears that part of the rim broke away and filled with metal when struck. On the opposite side the missing portion caused the metal to flow through and past the reeding causing it to elongate to the rim, where the rest of the reeds stop short of the edge.
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Yes, that's what I was thinking too.