@PerryHall said:
Definitely looks like a staple scratch. This coin should have received a details grade. @ianrussell Do you ever pull auction lots when the coin has damage that is not noted on the slab label?
Definitely NOT a staple scratch. It's too wide and too deep.
@gumby1234 said: @MFeld even thou what you say is true a damaged coin is damaged no matter what side its on.
It sounds like my effort at humor failed.😬
Actually it did not fail, you received 15 LOL. That's a pretty good score outside the humor thread around here.
@Mr_Spud said:
I saw that coin on guess the grade over at MyCollect also. I figured it would at last been net graded down to AU because of that scratch and I got it wrong.
That is why net grading is stupid! The ANA started an authentication service to protect collectors and dealers from counterfeit coins. Call me crazy but I figured grading services came about to protect the collector or dealer from overgraded coins. Therefore, I find it very hard to believe my eyes and there should be no way that PCGS and CAC could straight grade that coin.
@Typekat said:
But so far we’ve only seen a part of the ( clearly scratched) reverse!
Now, just for some hypothetical fun:
What if the obverse of this $10 Indian should just happen to look like a nice ‘A’ grade MS67?
1.What would it be worth then, commercially, or to you personally, if it ‘details’ graded for being damaged?
How about if it graded MS65?
This is almost as funny as Mark's joke. You just forgot to wink. How far down the grading scale should we drop an MS-70 coin with a hole in the middle?
@Insider3 said “That is why net grading is stupid!”
I actually agree with you. But I know that the guess the grade game at MyCollect only does straight grades and I saw the scratch that should mean “details” so I guessed maybe it was net graded instead of “details” since it was included in the game
The scratch is so big and obvious it seems hard to believe that this can happen. Maybe I am being unrealistic but I think a scratch this large should never be missed by a professional TPG service or CAC especially as they are checking the mistakes of the TPG services
I assume since Ian contacted the winning bidder and they are sending it back, that they have seen it and agree it is a scratch.
Sometimes strike-throughs or other errors will appear as a scratch and be difficult to discern. Looking at Phil's amazing image, I think it's a scratch, but will let everyone know if it's something different when it arrives back. The winning bidder, a long-time client of ours, also missed it when the coin arrived, so it might be difficult to see on some angles.
If the image wasn't so clear, I would still handle the same, but be saying "Let's not jump to conclusions quite yet, until the coin is reviewed".
Ian
It will be interesting to hear your analysis. Seems to me the odds of 2 professional companies missing the same large scratch would be like purchasing a winning jackpot lottery ticket, so maybe their is something more to the story
I keep looking at the deep gouges halfway down the wing and breast that looks like someone took an eyeglass screwdriver and whacked it with a hammer pretty hard…… But even the coin in the S and B auction had the scratches clearly showing which leads me to believe the buyer didn’t like it so he put it in the GC auction. So sad for such a nice coin…..
that's part of what they say they do, when getting paid to assess coins. Many years ago, they returned detail-grade coins n >"body-bags". However, even though you're opposed to detail-grades, hopefully, you don't think the coin should have >received the MS64 straight grade that it did.
I'm merely pointing out that in their process, TPGs make entirely subjective appraisals about how bad "damage" is; they make some arbitrary decision about each, and some get straight-graded, and some don't. We people often disagree on both sides of that--a straight-graded coin shouldn't have received a straight grade (as here), or a details-graded coin should have receive a straight grade. And, given that a details grade results in a huge diminution in value for that coin, I'm merely on a Quixotic quest to let the buyer decide how much to deduct for any obvious damage. I'm sure that you agree that the decision on whether to give a details grade sometimes is very close; given that it makes a huge difference in the market value of the coin, I'm suggesting that it's a flawed system. And getting more flawed, IMO, as CAC gains traction.
To answer your question: Given how TPGs work, if that problem on the reverse of that gold coin is a scratch, I do not think that it should have received a straight grade (much less CAC approval). But, again, I don't like how the system works.
Thank you. Since you don’t like “subjective appraisals” of damage and decisions regarding detail grades, if you could choose how the system worked, what would you do differently?
By the way, I’ve posted on multiple occasions that often, the decision to award a straight vs. a detail -grade can be just as difficult, subjective and inconsistent as the decision regarding what numerical grade to assign.
If I were the maker of rules (contrary-to-fact conditional, of course), I would have them straight-grade the vast majority of coins, reserving "details" grades for (i) things that cannot always be seen in a decent photo (or can be hidden easily with an indecent photo) and (ii) things so egregious that reasonable people could not disagree as to whether or not it should have received a straight grade. Given that we can look at a coin before buying it, I would much rather pass an ugly coin than flunk a nice-looking coin (especially given how many ugly coins already pass).
To me, it's kind of similar to the NCAA subjectively choosing the "top four" teams for the college football playoffs. The first couple left out could feel, legitimately, that they should have been let in. But nobody left out of the NCAA basketball tournament (64-68 teams chosen) can pretend that they were screwed.
"Out of an abundance of caution"; after a 5 alarm fire on this thread..... Wait until we find it was some type of planchet issue then it'll be lmao...A grader told me that "scratch" is not defined in the ANA grading standards.
If anyone here thinks who submits
Coins for grading doesn't factor into the final assigned grade
On the holder I have thousands of acres of ocean front property for sale in Minnesota for you.
I see a couple place on the reverse. Through the M of unum down to the wing and at bottom third from edge to edge. I have seen lead pencil marks that look similar to that.
But pictures can be deceptive and coin in hand is harder to argue with.
@Insider3 said: That is why net grading is stupid!
He’s baaack….
Yes and I'm glad he's back.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@Farmer1961 said:
If anyone here thinks who submits
Coins for grading doesn't factor into the final assigned grade
On the holder I have thousands of acres of ocean front property for sale in Minnesota for you.
The graders usually (99+% of the time) have no idea who submits a coin. So, while you may not have any ocean from property for sale, I'm guessing you have a dairy farm complete with horse manure.
Given that the coin come with financial liability due to the grade guarantee, please explain how such an arrangement would benefit the company. We'll wait...
I speak from personal experience. I've sent coins in from a local dealer that came back with a lower grade than when I cracked them out and resubmitted through a large dealer then sold the coins through them via heritage auctions. If I submitted the coins myself I'd have to paul the full sellers premium but if I submit via the large dealer hardly any sellers fee.
@Farmer1961 said:
If anyone here thinks who submits
Coins for grading doesn't factor into the final assigned grade
On the holder I have thousands of acres of ocean front property for sale in Minnesota for you.
The graders usually (99+% of the time) have no idea who submits a coin. So, while you may not have any ocean from property for sale, I'm guessing you have a fairy farm complete with horse manure.
Given that the coin come with financial liability due to the grade guarantee, please explain how such an arrangement would benefit the company. We'll wait...
I could care less about your opinion. Im.speaking from real life experience.
@Farmer1961 said:
I speak from personal experience. I've sent coins in from a local dealer that came back with a lower grade than when I cracked them out and resubmitted through a large dealer then sold the coins through them via heritage auctions. If I submitted the coins myself I'd have to paul the full sellers premium but if I submit via the large dealer hardly any sellers fee.
And I’ve seen numerous examples where some of the sharpest dealers, who are among the largest submitters to the major grading companies, have sold coins that later upgraded, when resubmitted by small dealers or collectors.
Due to the unpredictability of grading, you probably could have just as easily submitted coins through a small dealer, cracked them out, resubmitted them through a large dealer and ended up with lower (instead of higher) grades.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Farmer1961 said:
I speak from personal experience. I've sent coins in from a local dealer that came back with a lower grade than when I cracked them out and resubmitted through a large dealer then sold the coins through them via heritage auctions. If I submitted the coins myself I'd have to paul the full sellers premium but if I submit via the large dealer hardly any sellers fee.
What’s your sample size?
Have you submitted thousands of coins via your personal account and via a large dealer account? Can you show us the statistics demonstrating a trend to prove your point?
When you make a serious accusation, the burden of proof lies with you to back it up with evidence.
There are actual TPG graders posting here and in other forums that say otherwise.
@Farmer1961 said:
If anyone here thinks who submits
Coins for grading doesn't factor into the final assigned grade
On the holder I have thousands of acres of ocean front property for sale in Minnesota for you.
The graders usually (99+% of the time) have no idea who submits a coin. So, while you may not have any ocean from property for sale, I'm guessing you have a fairy farm complete with horse manure.
Given that the coin come with financial liability due to the grade guarantee, please explain how such an arrangement would benefit the company. We'll wait...
I could care less about your opinion. Im.speaking from real life experience.
And the rest of us have no real life experience...
There is simply no advantage in any TPG operating that way. And real life experience and facts indicate that graders DO NOT KNOW who the submitter is. So you are misinterpreting your experiences. In the process, you are impugning the integrity of our host and misleading the public.
@Farmer1961 said:
Im.speaking from real life experience.
I'm going to try to not be too harsh and mean here. That is not a valid thought process and is a poor way to go about life.
Your real life anecdotal experience is valid. That does not mean that it is a pattern or a rule and to make broad sweeping generalizations about reality based on your _very _ limited experience is going to miss the point of a lot of things.
@Torey said:
Is this currently on auction at GC? Looks like it needs to be pulled if it is.
Why?
If the coin is in an auction it's up to the buyer/bidder to LOOK AT THE COIN
I don't think it's up to the auction house to judge the coin, only list it for auction.
Buyer beware!
JMO
Seriously? So it is ok for a dealer to just slip this by and sell it to some sorry fool as well? The coin is clearly damaged and does not merit its current Mint State grade. It needs sent back to PCGS, not sold to the highest bidder.
There are so many coins listed for sale with problems not called out on the holder and straight graded. It's a point I've been trying to make for some time now.
Yes, I agree it should be sent back to the TPG company, but I don't agree on the auction house to make that call. There job is to list the coin for auction, not to judge the condition of the coin.
Again
JMO
This. If you've ever attempted a 7070 Type Set or collect Early Copper and looked at a bunch of Classic Head LC's, you'll likely run across many that have various "problems" yet ended up in straight graded holders. This is one reason I stopped cracking coins after I completed my 7070.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
There are so many coins listed for sale with problems not called out on the holder and straight graded. It's a point I've been trying to make for some time now.
Yes, I agree it should be sent back to the TPG company, but I don't agree on the auction house to make that call. There job is to list the coin for auction, not to judge the condition of the coin.
Again
JMO
Agree with the above. I can see something like this straight grading if it was pre 1815 Copper, Draped Bust Material, or a Heraldic Eagle or earlier Dollar, because I've seen a lot worse of these coins which have straight graded. But the TPGs normally bag coins that were minted later than this.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
I don't see "PCGS" in the bottom right of the slab, and I see what looks like something similar to the PCGS "Shield" in the bottom left of the slab? I wonder about the slab being authentic?
@Nysoto said:
They're just scratches. All circulated and most MS coins have scratches of varying length and depth:
but but those scratches chop off poor Lady Liberty's head, it's all the wrong message, I wouldn't kick those coins out of bed in the morning, but wouldn't have wanted to pay full price
Notice that the scratch almost disappears over the worn area of the neck, that indicates to me that it's a scratch which occurred when the coin was still circulating. The portions of the scratch on the higher points of the hair simply wore away.
@Connecticoin said:
Actually, in the Stack’s photos the “scratch” appears to be raised. Perhaps a die crack and not a scratch?
Might be an optical illusion since that's definitely a scratch since a die crack would have extended to the rim.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@TomB said:
Wow! That doesn't look like a strike-through from the image.
Sorry, but I think it looks exactly like a strikethrough. A scratch has to displace the metal that it gouges from the groove it makes, so there should be a ridge to go along with the depression. I don’t see it.
Also, at the lower part of the photo the other so-called scratch runs right up to the edge of the lettering and is predominantly on the fields. I can visualize a thread getting squished between the die and coin and giving just this effect. I am less able to see a solid object getting down inside the O or between the other letters.
And if they are strikethroughs, then I can see straight grading it. Some folks like mint errors, and might accept this “as struck”, but I am not one of them.
Edit: I wrote this before I realized this thread had pages 2&3. I had not seen the full photos. Since then others have disputed the assumption it is a scratch.
This photo shows the displaced metal I would expect from a scratch, as well as an area where that metal was worn away in circulation. Since the original coin did not circulate, a scratch should still show the ridges too.
I have my doubts about this being a scratch, too.
If an object were drawn across the coin (that is, pulled) I would expect the edges to be smoother and straighter. If an object were pushed across, I would expect it to snag as it pushed into the metal. I would expect to see ridges of metal that was displaced.
This, however, is just too ragged. To me, it looks like the crack originated in the planchet before striking. The crack or gouge did not get pushed completely together at this deepest part of the die.
As I said in the previous post, if this is “as struck”, it hasn’t been damaged after striking and should grade - even if you and I don’t like it.
If someone really thinks it is a post-strike scratch, help me understand that.
@Nysoto said:
They're just scratches. All circulated and most MS coins have scratches of varying length and depth:
NO they Don't!
Some do, but I always thought that heavy deep large scratches means Details grade, but what do I know
It doesn't matter if it's shallow or deep, a scratch is a scratch.
I've beaten this horse dead.
If the TPG don't do there job I will take it into my own hands to grade the coin as always.
Scratches are not to be confused with die polish, strikethroughs, or die cracks, and shouldn't be straight graded regardless of the year, type or rarity.
If some are good with it that's fine, just not me. I'll wait till I can find a problem free coin in my opinion.
@Farmer1961 said:
I speak from personal experience. I've sent coins in from a local dealer that came back with a lower grade than when I cracked them out and resubmitted through a large dealer then sold the coins through them via heritage auctions. If I submitted the coins myself I'd have to paul the full sellers premium but if I submit via the large dealer hardly any sellers fee.
This is one of the most exhausting faslehoods in this hobby. Rest assured that no reputable TPG (or any self-respecting individual grader, for that matter) has interest in pimping out the core mechanism of their business for some kind of unsustainable and short lived profit. Go ahead and keep yelling at the sky about TPG conspiracies if you’d like, but do consider that you could always set that aside and actually further your understanding of how the industry works.
@alaura22 said:
It doesn't matter if it's shallow or deep, a scratch is a scratch.
When you grade a coin, how would you treat a small hairline scratch that is well hidden in the design of an older circulated coin?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@alaura22 said:
It doesn't matter if it's shallow or deep, a scratch is a scratch.
When you grade a coin, how would you treat a small hairline scratch that is well hidden in the design of an older circulated coin?
I know my answer won't be a popular one, but I would treat it like a scratch. Just because it is well hidden doesn't mean it isn't there. Like I mentioned above, if others are good with it then that's fine but I'll continue to search for the clean no problem examples.
The term market acceptable really sets me off, for me it has to be acceptable to ME, and I will thank ME down the road when it's time to sell, if that ever happens.
Again, JMO
@Ronsanderson said:
I have my doubts about this being a scratch, too.
If an object were drawn across the coin (that is, pulled) I would expect the edges to be smoother and straighter. If an object were pushed across, I would expect it to snag as it pushed into the metal. I would expect to see ridges of metal that was displaced.
This, however, is just too ragged. To me, it looks like the crack originated in the planchet before striking. The crack or gouge did not get pushed completely together at this deepest part of the die.
As I said in the previous post, if this is “as struck”, it hasn’t been damaged after striking and should grade - even if you and I don’t like it.
If someone really thinks it is a post-strike scratch, help me understand that.
I owned that coin.
It was definitely a deep scratch.
Comments
Sometimes scratches are missed:
peacockcoins
Definitely NOT a staple scratch. It's too wide and too deep.
Actually it did not fail, you received 15 LOL. That's a pretty good score outside the humor thread around here.
That is why net grading is stupid! The ANA started an authentication service to protect collectors and dealers from counterfeit coins. Call me crazy but I figured grading services came about to protect the collector or dealer from overgraded coins. Therefore, I find it very hard to believe my eyes and there should be no way that PCGS and CAC could straight grade that coin.
This is almost as funny as Mark's joke. You just forgot to wink. How far down the grading scale should we drop an MS-70 coin with a hole in the middle?
That coin would be a hard pass for me.
@Insider3 said “That is why net grading is stupid!”
I actually agree with you. But I know that the guess the grade game at MyCollect only does straight grades and I saw the scratch that should mean “details” so I guessed maybe it was net graded instead of “details” since it was included in the game
Mr_Spud
The scratch is so big and obvious it seems hard to believe that this can happen. Maybe I am being unrealistic but I think a scratch this large should never be missed by a professional TPG service or CAC especially as they are checking the mistakes of the TPG services
It will be interesting to hear your analysis. Seems to me the odds of 2 professional companies missing the same large scratch would be like purchasing a winning jackpot lottery ticket, so maybe their is something more to the story
I keep looking at the deep gouges halfway down the wing and breast that looks like someone took an eyeglass screwdriver and whacked it with a hammer pretty hard…… But even the coin in the S and B auction had the scratches clearly showing which leads me to believe the buyer didn’t like it so he put it in the GC auction. So sad for such a nice coin…..
If I were the maker of rules (contrary-to-fact conditional, of course), I would have them straight-grade the vast majority of coins, reserving "details" grades for (i) things that cannot always be seen in a decent photo (or can be hidden easily with an indecent photo) and (ii) things so egregious that reasonable people could not disagree as to whether or not it should have received a straight grade. Given that we can look at a coin before buying it, I would much rather pass an ugly coin than flunk a nice-looking coin (especially given how many ugly coins already pass).
To me, it's kind of similar to the NCAA subjectively choosing the "top four" teams for the college football playoffs. The first couple left out could feel, legitimately, that they should have been let in. But nobody left out of the NCAA basketball tournament (64-68 teams chosen) can pretend that they were screwed.
"Out of an abundance of caution"; after a 5 alarm fire on this thread..... Wait until we find it was some type of planchet issue then it'll be lmao...A grader told me that "scratch" is not defined in the ANA grading standards.
I wouldn’t call the obverse 63 by this picture
My 63
If anyone here thinks who submits
Coins for grading doesn't factor into the final assigned grade
On the holder I have thousands of acres of ocean front property for sale in Minnesota for you.
I see a couple place on the reverse. Through the M of unum down to the wing and at bottom third from edge to edge. I have seen lead pencil marks that look similar to that.
But pictures can be deceptive and coin in hand is harder to argue with.
They're just scratches. All circulated and most MS coins have scratches of varying length and depth:
He’s baaack….
Smitten with DBLCs.
NO they Don't!
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Yes and I'm glad he's back.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
And the gumption, sassiness and cojones on these boards has suddenly jumped considerably....
The graders usually (99+% of the time) have no idea who submits a coin. So, while you may not have any ocean from property for sale, I'm guessing you have a dairy farm complete with horse manure.
Given that the coin come with financial liability due to the grade guarantee, please explain how such an arrangement would benefit the company. We'll wait...
I speak from personal experience. I've sent coins in from a local dealer that came back with a lower grade than when I cracked them out and resubmitted through a large dealer then sold the coins through them via heritage auctions. If I submitted the coins myself I'd have to paul the full sellers premium but if I submit via the large dealer hardly any sellers fee.
Pay not paul
Pay not paul> @jmlanzaf said:
I could care less about your opinion. Im.speaking from real life experience.
And I’ve seen numerous examples where some of the sharpest dealers, who are among the largest submitters to the major grading companies, have sold coins that later upgraded, when resubmitted by small dealers or collectors.
Due to the unpredictability of grading, you probably could have just as easily submitted coins through a small dealer, cracked them out, resubmitted them through a large dealer and ended up with lower (instead of higher) grades.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
What’s your sample size?
Have you submitted thousands of coins via your personal account and via a large dealer account? Can you show us the statistics demonstrating a trend to prove your point?
When you make a serious accusation, the burden of proof lies with you to back it up with evidence.
There are actual TPG graders posting here and in other forums that say otherwise.
And the rest of us have no real life experience...
There is simply no advantage in any TPG operating that way. And real life experience and facts indicate that graders DO NOT KNOW who the submitter is. So you are misinterpreting your experiences. In the process, you are impugning the integrity of our host and misleading the public.
I'm going to try to not be too harsh and mean here. That is not a valid thought process and is a poor way to go about life.
Your real life anecdotal experience is valid. That does not mean that it is a pattern or a rule and to make broad sweeping generalizations about reality based on your _very _ limited experience is going to miss the point of a lot of things.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
This. If you've ever attempted a 7070 Type Set or collect Early Copper and looked at a bunch of Classic Head LC's, you'll likely run across many that have various "problems" yet ended up in straight graded holders. This is one reason I stopped cracking coins after I completed my 7070.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Agree with the above. I can see something like this straight grading if it was pre 1815 Copper, Draped Bust Material, or a Heraldic Eagle or earlier Dollar, because I've seen a lot worse of these coins which have straight graded. But the TPGs normally bag coins that were minted later than this.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I don't see "PCGS" in the bottom right of the slab, and I see what looks like something similar to the PCGS "Shield" in the bottom left of the slab? I wonder about the slab being authentic?
@ianrussell any update on this coin yet?
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
but but those scratches chop off poor Lady Liberty's head, it's all the wrong message, I wouldn't kick those coins out of bed in the morning, but wouldn't have wanted to pay full price
Interesting, how did the scratch on the 1797 not cross over the hair? Is it 2 different scratches?
Notice that the scratch almost disappears over the worn area of the neck, that indicates to me that it's a scratch which occurred when the coin was still circulating. The portions of the scratch on the higher points of the hair simply wore away.
Actually, in the Stack’s photos the “scratch” appears to be raised. Perhaps a die crack and not a scratch?
Might be an optical illusion since that's definitely a scratch since a die crack would have extended to the rim.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Sorry, but I think it looks exactly like a strikethrough. A scratch has to displace the metal that it gouges from the groove it makes, so there should be a ridge to go along with the depression. I don’t see it.
Also, at the lower part of the photo the other so-called scratch runs right up to the edge of the lettering and is predominantly on the fields. I can visualize a thread getting squished between the die and coin and giving just this effect. I am less able to see a solid object getting down inside the O or between the other letters.
And if they are strikethroughs, then I can see straight grading it. Some folks like mint errors, and might accept this “as struck”, but I am not one of them.
Edit: I wrote this before I realized this thread had pages 2&3. I had not seen the full photos. Since then others have disputed the assumption it is a scratch.
This photo shows the displaced metal I would expect from a scratch, as well as an area where that metal was worn away in circulation. Since the original coin did not circulate, a scratch should still show the ridges too.
I have my doubts about this being a scratch, too.
If an object were drawn across the coin (that is, pulled) I would expect the edges to be smoother and straighter. If an object were pushed across, I would expect it to snag as it pushed into the metal. I would expect to see ridges of metal that was displaced.
This, however, is just too ragged. To me, it looks like the crack originated in the planchet before striking. The crack or gouge did not get pushed completely together at this deepest part of the die.
As I said in the previous post, if this is “as struck”, it hasn’t been damaged after striking and should grade - even if you and I don’t like it.
If someone really thinks it is a post-strike scratch, help me understand that.
I don't know, that got a laugh, 11LOL's.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Some do, but I always thought that heavy deep large scratches means Details grade, but what do I know
It doesn't matter if it's shallow or deep, a scratch is a scratch.
I've beaten this horse dead.
If the TPG don't do there job I will take it into my own hands to grade the coin as always.
Scratches are not to be confused with die polish, strikethroughs, or die cracks, and shouldn't be straight graded regardless of the year, type or rarity.
If some are good with it that's fine, just not me. I'll wait till I can find a problem free coin in my opinion.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
This is one of the most exhausting faslehoods in this hobby. Rest assured that no reputable TPG (or any self-respecting individual grader, for that matter) has interest in pimping out the core mechanism of their business for some kind of unsustainable and short lived profit. Go ahead and keep yelling at the sky about TPG conspiracies if you’d like, but do consider that you could always set that aside and actually further your understanding of how the industry works.
When you grade a coin, how would you treat a small hairline scratch that is well hidden in the design of an older circulated coin?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I know my answer won't be a popular one, but I would treat it like a scratch. Just because it is well hidden doesn't mean it isn't there. Like I mentioned above, if others are good with it then that's fine but I'll continue to search for the clean no problem examples.
The term market acceptable really sets me off, for me it has to be acceptable to ME, and I will thank ME down the road when it's time to sell, if that ever happens.
Again, JMO
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I owned that coin.
It was definitely a deep scratch.
peacockcoins