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Straight graded PCGS 64

gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

How could this coin not be in a details holder for the scratch going across the reverse from one side to the other?

Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    ToreyTorey Posts: 132 ✭✭✭

    Is this currently on auction at GC? Looks like it needs to be pulled if it is.

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB no its a scratch for sure. These coins on the gtg are throwing me for a loop.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Torey said:
    Is this currently on auction at GC? Looks like it needs to be pulled if it is.

    I dont know if its at auction.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Torey said:
    Is this currently on auction at GC? Looks like it needs to be pulled if it is.

    I dont know if its at auction.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ouch! That one hurts! And not just one scratch!

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely looks like a staple scratch. This coin should have received a details grade.
    @ianrussell Do you ever pull auction lots when the coin has damage that is not noted on the slab label?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,812 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From the photo It looks like a scratch to me.

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld sorry I didn't notice the wink emoji.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jimnight said:
    From the photo It looks like a scratch to me.

    Two

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jimnight there's more than one scratch, but the main offender goes across the whole coin.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Torey said:
    Is this currently on auction at GC? Looks like it needs to be pulled if it is.

    Why?
    If the coin is in an auction it's up to the buyer/bidder to LOOK AT THE COIN
    I don't think it's up to the auction house to judge the coin, only list it for auction.
    Buyer beware!
    JMO

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    ToreyTorey Posts: 132 ✭✭✭

    @alaura22 said:

    @Torey said:
    Is this currently on auction at GC? Looks like it needs to be pulled if it is.

    Why?
    If the coin is in an auction it's up to the buyer/bidder to LOOK AT THE COIN
    I don't think it's up to the auction house to judge the coin, only list it for auction.
    Buyer beware!
    JMO

    Seriously? So it is ok for a dealer to just slip this by and sell it to some sorry fool as well? The coin is clearly damaged and does not merit its current Mint State grade. It needs sent back to PCGS, not sold to the highest bidder.

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    ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,323 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So.. is there a cert number or GC sale attached to this coin? I need proof to believe this coin straight graded. I see it is a GC photo so there must be a sale for it.

    Collector, occasional seller

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    MICHAELDIXONMICHAELDIXON Posts: 6,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Show the coin in the holder, both obverse and reverse.

    Spring National Battlefield Coin Show is April 12-13, 2024 at the Eisenhower Hotel in Gettysburg, PA. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,615 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2024 6:22PM

    Irregardless it is unacceptable to me. A case in point one needs to look at the coin! Are people even bidding on it?

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MICHAELDIXON said:
    Show the coin in the holder, both obverse and reverse.

    I dont have holder pics, just the GTG pic from mycollect.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @alaura22 while it probably isn't the responsibility of the auction house to do something about coins like this, it would be nice to know that they would. Peace of mind when buying is something that everyone should have.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    MICHAELDIXONMICHAELDIXON Posts: 6,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:

    @MICHAELDIXON said:
    Show the coin in the holder, both obverse and reverse.

    I dont have holder pics, just the GTG pic from mycollect.

    From the picture, I question whether the coin is actually in a TPG holder.

    Spring National Battlefield Coin Show is April 12-13, 2024 at the Eisenhower Hotel in Gettysburg, PA. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
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    124Spider124Spider Posts: 847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @alaura22 said:

    @Torey said:
    Is this currently on auction at GC? Looks like it needs to be pulled if it is.

    Why?
    If the coin is in an auction it's up to the buyer/bidder to LOOK AT THE COIN
    I don't think it's up to the auction house to judge the coin, only list it for auction.
    Buyer beware!
    JMO

    I couldn't agree more. The market should decide if a coin is "market acceptable," unless the damage is egregious.

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    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I take that back. 3 scratches on the reverse.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1madman WOW even a CAC sticker on it.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I saw that coin on guess the grade over at MyCollect also. I figured it would at last been net graded down to AU because of that scratch and I got it wrong.

    Mr_Spud

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    alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There has to be a reasonable explanation for this coin getting a straight grade AND a CAC sticker.
    I am perplexed as to what it could be

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    WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 700 ✭✭✭✭

    Are you guys sure it is a staple scratch as it seems impossible CAC would pass the coin especially a gold coin with such an obvious mark. Rather PCGS and CAC. Must be another explanation

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerlover Look at the GC slab pics. You can zoom in on them. At least 3 scratches on the reverse.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    ToreyTorey Posts: 132 ✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2024 7:10PM

    @124Spider said:

    @alaura22 said:

    @Torey said:
    Is this currently on auction at GC? Looks like it needs to be pulled if it is.

    Why?
    If the coin is in an auction it's up to the buyer/bidder to LOOK AT THE COIN
    I don't think it's up to the auction house to judge the coin, only list it for auction.
    Buyer beware!
    JMO

    I couldn't agree more. The market should decide if a coin is "market acceptable," unless the damage is egregious.

    There is no end to that mindset.
    Mechanical label error? Let it bid and the market decide!
    Tooled? Let it bid and the market decide!
    Counterfeit TPG holders? Let it bid and the market decide!

    When a mistake is caught, it should be addressed.

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    alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't know if you're a seasoned veteran or a new collector but
    caveat emptor

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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At first I thought oh well somebody, didn't do their job, it happens, but then saw pcgs holdered it MS64 and then CAC beaned it. More to this story, I would imagine. Now it pauses me to think that this may be a replacement coin for the real coin, as it is not even a serious coin for the collector. Might be easy to make a grand doing it. Just doesn't seem feasible for both graders to miss this most obvious error. Hopefully Ian will see this and investigate the holder to insure it correct.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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    jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,591 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was looking thru a dealer's silver dollars this past weekend, low and behold a colorful toned NGC * star with a huge scratch on reverse. Not noted, and given a star designation, obviously missed.

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    alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Jim
    The coin sold already
    https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1520379/1932-Indian-Gold-Eagle-PCGS-MS-64-CAC-Green
    But you do make a great point about the coin was taken out of a holder and replaced with that one.
    I can't think of any other way that that coin could be graded and stickered

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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow, it didn't go cheap either. Tears will fall at the eye doctor's.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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    RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 590 ✭✭✭✭

    If you think that the sticker cannot be applied fraudulently then think again. Just as a slab can be produced fruadulently.
    I have to believe that the is a case of both. In fact it is a no brainer imo

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    alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RobertScotLover said:
    If you think that the sticker cannot be applied fraudulently then think again. Just as a slab can be produced fruadulently.
    I have to believe that the is a case of both. In fact it is a no brainer imo

    There is no other rational explanation
    Now, how do we prove it?

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    CRHer700CRHer700 Posts: 636 ✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @Jimnight said:
    From the photo It looks like a scratch to me.

    Two

    @OAKSTAR said:
    I take that back. 3 scratches on the reverse.

    There certainly are a few, but that long rim to rim, that would drive me mad to buy it and then see it. I hope no one gets deceived.

    Cheers, and God Bless, CRHer700 :mrgreen:

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    ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,323 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It also sold at Stacks
    https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-11GTWK/1932-indian-eagle-ms-64-pcgs-cac

    PCGS and CAC got this one wrong. There's also a pretty decent scratch across the denomination.

    Collector, occasional seller

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    TypekatTypekat Posts: 156 ✭✭✭

    But so far we’ve only seen a part of the ( clearly scratched) reverse!

    Now, just for some hypothetical fun:

    What if the obverse of this $10 Indian should just happen to look like a nice ‘A’ grade MS67?

    1.What would it be worth then, commercially, or to you personally, if it ‘details’ graded for being damaged?

    1. How about if it graded MS65?

    30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!

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    alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Typekat said:
    But so far we’ve only seen a part of the ( clearly scratched) reverse!

    Now, just for some hypothetical fun:

    What if the obverse of this $10 Indian should just happen to look like a nice ‘A’ grade MS67?

    1.What would it be worth then, commercially, or to you personally, if it ‘details’ graded for being damaged?

    1. How about if it graded MS65?

    How about melt?

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