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CAC stickered coins submitted to CMQ with results

pointfivezeropointfivezero Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭✭✭

I decided to send a few CAC stickered coins to CMQ as an experiment of sorts. Although I have not received them back, the images have been posted so I thought I would share the results along with some comments on my experience.

First up is a Stewart Blay Lincoln cent I purchased recently from GC. It was not stickered by either service so I submitted to CAC where it received a green bean and then off the CMQ:

Next up is a rather interestingly toned Franklin. I purchased this from DLRC with the gold CAC and then sent it off the CMQ:

Lastly, is a Texas commem purchased at a local coin show with the gold CAC. It is now sports a gold CMQ+ sticker:

I sent the submission in the week prior to the FUN show so I was told they would not be reviewed until the team returned from Florida. They were completed by the end of week following the show. The service from Nicholas and company was outstanding. There was a small invoicing hiccup as I paid when I created the submission but was also invoiced after the stickering. This was quickly resolved to my complete satisfaction after a short email.

All in all, a very good experience with results consistent with my expectations.

Tim

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Comments

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great info thanks for the report and photos to support.

    Do you recommend CMQ from a value perspective?

  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder what the results would be like if they got the Griffin's first? >:)


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,748 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Glue beats crack, I guess.
    Provenance affixed.

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2024 6:59AM

    Very neat and I appreciate the post.
    Thoughts on the Franklin that gold CAC'd but non-CMQX? Would you remove the CMQ or keep it?

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,897 ✭✭✭✭

    All of them CMQ'd, it appears. The CMQ sticker doesn't have traction with me, except for my sentimental affection for Bowers' Griffin symbol, as I have a soft spot for his firm and influence over the decades.

  • AZDAVYAZDAVY Posts: 44 ✭✭✭

    Nice coins tim. Too early for me to tell cmq good or bad.

  • AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,265 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do not crack out the first coin. That PCGS holder is collectible.

    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
  • pointfivezeropointfivezero Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Weiss said:
    Very neat and I appreciate the post.
    Thoughts on the Franklin that gold CAC'd but non-CMQX? Would you remove the CMQ or keep it?

    Thanks @Weiss. I think we can all agree the CMQ green sticker is probably more accurate for the current state of the coin, so I’m leaving it affixed.

    Tim

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting. I'll send some stuff in and post results.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • pointfivezeropointfivezero Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @johnny010 said:
    Great info thanks for the report and photos to support.

    Do you recommend CMQ from a value perspective?

    Thanks @johnny010. Probably too early to tell if the CMQ sticker adds value. I’m flirting with the idea of selling the double gold commem as a culmination of the experiment. If I do, I’ll post the results here.

    Tim

  • P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,157 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I sent a few coins to CMQ recently, and several stickered. Ironically, the one coin with a CAC sticker failed.

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting! An example of GC not sending a coin to CAC!

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 661 ✭✭✭✭

    @pointfivezero said:

    @johnny010 said:
    Great info thanks for the report and photos to support.

    Do you recommend CMQ from a value perspective?

    Thanks @johnny010. Probably too early to tell if the CMQ sticker adds value. I’m flirting with the idea of selling the double gold commem as a culmination of the experiment. If I do, I’ll post the results here.

    Tim

    Interesting to see if a double gold will bring much more value in the market. Would be an informative experiment if you choose to go down that path. Let us know

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 3,977 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This really isn’t much of an experiment at all, sending in a coin picked by Stewart Blay, who is clearly known for buying the best coins for the grade, and two other coins with gold CAC stickers. Those coins are guaranteed to get ANY sticker, including even the unknown “Joe’s Corner Gas Station Sticker”. This experiment proves absolutely nothing!

    I believe it was @ProofCollection who actually submitted a variety of coins to CMQ, that while limited, was actually in the fashion of a true experiment!

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,416 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2024 10:09PM

    So they would put a second tackon to their ask where holder had 2 different stickers? My gosh wait till they get a third (sticker guy #3) sticker to the slab - just price it tripple dipple right? In coin club we asked elated or not adding the tripple dipple (show thumbs down,like Ceasar). Most did w thumbs down grrr…indicating tack it on…..

    Coins & Currency both US and World
  • pointfivezeropointfivezero Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:
    This really isn’t much of an experiment at all, sending in a coin picked by Stewart Blay, who is clearly known for buying the best coins for the grade, and two other coins with gold CAC stickers. Those coins are guaranteed to get ANY sticker, including even the unknown “Joe’s Corner Gas Station Sticker”. This experiment proves absolutely nothing!

    I believe it was @ProofCollection who actually submitted a variety of coins to CMQ, that while limited, was actually in the fashion of a true experiment!

    Steve

    Thanks for the feedback, Steve. Although not a conclusive experiment on the value and/or consistency of CMQ, my aim was to determine whether they would be influenced by the presence of CAC stickers. If Blay always picked the best coins for the grade, I would have expected a CMQ+ sticker. If they were blindly following the CAC lead, the Franklin should have been awarded a CMQ+ sticker.

    So while it was a very small set of coins, I will stand by my “experiment of sorts” statement.

    Tim

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,355 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coins. It will be very hard to tell what value the sticker will bring because those slabs are where the value lies.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 3,977 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2024 5:00AM

    @pointfivezero said:

    @winesteven said:
    This really isn’t much of an experiment at all, sending in a coin picked by Stewart Blay, who is clearly known for buying the best coins for the grade, and two other coins with gold CAC stickers. Those coins are guaranteed to get ANY sticker, including even the unknown “Joe’s Corner Gas Station Sticker”. This experiment proves absolutely nothing!

    I believe it was @ProofCollection who actually submitted a variety of coins to CMQ, that while limited, was actually in the fashion of a true experiment!

    Steve

    Thanks for the feedback, Steve. Although not a conclusive experiment on the value and/or consistency of CMQ, my aim was to determine whether they would be influenced by the presence of CAC stickers. If Blay always picked the best coins for the grade, I would have expected a CMQ+ sticker. If they were blindly following the CAC lead, the Franklin should have been awarded a CMQ+ sticker.

    So while it was a very small set of coins, I will stand by my “experiment of sorts” statement.

    Tim

    Not that it matters with your experiment, but of the 20 or so assorted coins with and without CAC stickers that @ProofCollection submitted to CMQ, only one got the “coveted” CMQ+, and that was a coin that CAC failed, lol!

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 3,977 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lermish said:

    @DisneyFan said:

    Interesting! An example of GC not sending a coin to CAC!

    This is typically done at the seller's request. However, in this case, a huge portion of the value is in the holder itself. CPG for the coin is $1250. So given a ~$3k premium for the holder, maybe there wouldn't really be much, if any, CAC premium. On top of a delay in the sale and marginal additional chance for the slab to be damaged.

    If I were the consigner I probably wouldn't request it to be sent to CAC either.

    But as we can now see, @pointfivezero did send it to CAC (and got their sticker) before sending it to CMQ. I agree the value of that “item” is in the combination of the coin, Pedigree and holder, and not really in either of the stickers. But no harm having those stickers.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For $25 plus s/h/i, I will attach a sticker to validate that the other sticker is properly attached.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lermish said:

    @DisneyFan said:

    Interesting! An example of GC not sending a coin to CAC!

    This is typically done at the seller's request.

    A worthwhile point! Do other auction houses follow GC's practice of giving three CAC options?

    Let GreatCollections decide.
    Yes, please submit all coins to CAC.
    No CAC review.

    As previously discussed, CAC is an additional cost and a time delay.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 3,977 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2024 6:52AM

    From the little I have seen so far, based mainly on the results of @ProofCollection 's limited experiment, i have absolutely ZERO value in the CMQ. But with that said, if I were submitting coins to Stacks for auction consignment (or for direct sale), I would indeed first submit those coins to CMQ, and if any failed, I would then look elsewhere to sell/consign those coins.

    As I've said before, for ME, if I were bidding on a Stacks auction lot, and it was valued at $1,000 or over, and it did not have a CMQ, I would either pass (figuring it failed), or see if Stacks would submit that coin right down the hall to CMQ.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 5,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The jury is still out on the value of CMQ just like it was on CAC the first year of CAC stickers. Time will tell.

  • AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2024 6:42AM

    Just needs to be slabbed by a 4th party grading company and a 5th party sticker company.

  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:
    This really isn’t much of an experiment at all, sending in a coin picked by Stewart Blay, who is clearly known for buying the best coins for the grade, and two other coins with gold CAC stickers. Those coins are guaranteed to get ANY sticker, including even the unknown “Joe’s Corner Gas Station Sticker”. This experiment proves absolutely nothing!

    I believe it was @ProofCollection who actually submitted a variety of coins to CMQ, that while limited, was actually in the fashion of a true experiment!

    Steve

    JCGS.com............


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 3,977 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @spacehayduke said:

    @winesteven said:
    This really isn’t much of an experiment at all, sending in a coin picked by Stewart Blay, who is clearly known for buying the best coins for the grade, and two other coins with gold CAC stickers. Those coins are guaranteed to get ANY sticker, including even the unknown “Joe’s Corner Gas Station Sticker”. This experiment proves absolutely nothing!

    I believe it was @ProofCollection who actually submitted a variety of coins to CMQ, that while limited, was actually in the fashion of a true experiment!

    Steve

    JCGS.com............

    I don't understand. What is JCGS.com?????

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pointfivezero said:

    Next up is a rather interestingly toned Franklin. I purchased this from DLRC with the gold CAC and then sent it off the CMQ:

    Lastly, is a Texas commem purchased at a local coin show with the gold CAC. It is now sports a gold CMQ+ sticker:

    Given the CMQ, apparently not all coins are photogenic!

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 661 ✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:

    @pointfivezero said:

    Next up is a rather interestingly toned Franklin. I purchased this from DLRC with the gold CAC and then sent it off the CMQ:

    Lastly, is a Texas commem purchased at a local coin show with the gold CAC. It is now sports a gold CMQ+ sticker:

    Given the CMQ, apparently not all coins are photogenic!

    Apparently no CMQ gold because the Franklin lacks high eye appeal

  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 5,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To be clear, CMQ has never stated that a CMQ + means it is undergraded. It is not equivalent to CAC Gold.

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Weiss said:
    I'm afraid some collectors don't understand the value of a CAC (or CMQ) sticker on a _vintage _holder.
    Coins can turn. Undiagnosed PVC or putty occurs. Fingerprints emerge and darken.
    Not every vintage holder holds a dramatically under graded coin. Some of those coins were actually correctly graded. Believe it or not, some of those coins were actually over graded.

    It's strange that collectors will admit that 50% or more of the value of the regency holder is in the holder itself, and then question the wisdom of having that coin stickered in 2024, literally by the two guys responsible for NGC and PCGS. Would you shell out for or even want a regency holder with an absolute dog inside? That's the definition of underwater.

    These opinions affirm the coin within is exceptional and stable after 30 years. And though it's hard to see while we're here in the trenches, Albanese and Hall aren't going to be around forever. This may be your only opportunity to have a stellar coin in a stellar holder with bona fides by the two giants of third party grading--arguably the most significant development in our hobby in a half-century or more.

    For $20? Sign me up.

    @Weiss
    Do you attempt to complete sets in old holders?

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    Nice coins. It will be very hard to tell what value the sticker will bring because those slabs are where the value lies.

    Slabs? stickers? What's the actual "coin" worth? Crazy world! LOL

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:

    @gumby1234 said:
    Nice coins. It will be very hard to tell what value the sticker will bring because those slabs are where the value lies.

    Slabs? stickers? What's the actual "coin" worth? Crazy world! LOL

    There are many avenues to collecting. To assume only the coin matters would be a mistake.

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @johnny010 said:

    @Weiss
    Do you attempt to complete sets in old holders?

    Whoa no. I don't have that kind of patience. I'm a box of 20ist. With limited real estate, I try to add as many facets to my pieces as I can: The core of my collection are exceptional representative pieces in vintage top tier TPG holders, and I aim for pieces that are green and even gold stickered.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Weiss said:

    @johnny010 said:

    @Weiss
    Do you attempt to complete sets in old holders?

    Whoa no. I don't have that kind of patience. I'm a box of 20ist. With limited real estate, I try to add as many facets to my pieces as I can: The core of my collection are exceptional representative pieces in vintage top tier TPG holders, and I aim for pieces that are green and even gold stickered.

    Very nice
    I’m sure your collection is excellent.

  • pointfivezeropointfivezero Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerlover said:

    @pointfivezero said:

    @johnny010 said:
    Great info thanks for the report and photos to support.

    Do you recommend CMQ from a value perspective?

    Thanks @johnny010. Probably too early to tell if the CMQ sticker adds value. I’m flirting with the idea of selling the double gold commem as a culmination of the experiment. If I do, I’ll post the results here.

    Tim

    Interesting to see if a double gold will bring much more value in the market. Would be an informative experiment if you choose to go down that path. Let us know

    As a disclaimer, this post is not intended to promote my item. I will create a new post in the BST forum for that purpose but to respond to @Walkerlover request, I have listed the Texas commem on eBay:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/126304846854

    Tim

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 661 ✭✭✭✭

    @pointfivezero said:

    @Walkerlover said:

    @pointfivezero said:

    @johnny010 said:
    Great info thanks for the report and photos to support.

    Do you recommend CMQ from a value perspective?

    Thanks @johnny010. Probably too early to tell if the CMQ sticker adds value. I’m flirting with the idea of selling the double gold commem as a culmination of the experiment. If I do, I’ll post the results here.

    Tim

    Interesting to see if a double gold will bring much more value in the market. Would be an informative experiment if you choose to go down that path. Let us know

    As a disclaimer, this post is not intended to promote my item. I will create a new post in the BST forum for that purpose but to respond to @Walkerlover request, I have listed the Texas commem on eBay:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/126304846854

    Tim

    Tim did you do no reserve?

  • pointfivezeropointfivezero Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, sure did. I start all my coin auctions at $.99.

    Tim

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,302 ✭✭✭✭✭

    why we got stickers :D

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,468 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My perception of a slab with a solo sticker of CMQ would tell me that it failed CAC review and should be priced accordingly assuming I had an interest.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 5,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Catbert said:
    My perception of a slab with a solo stickr of CMQ would tell me that it failed CAC review and should be priced accordingly assuming I had an interest.

    Aside from not being a good assumption, what's wrong with that? The stickers do not purport to represent the same thing.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 3,977 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Catbert said:
    My perception of a slab with a solo sticker of CMQ would tell me that it failed CAC review and should be priced accordingly assuming I had an interest.

    While I checked "Agree", there could reasonably be another scenario, especially for lower priced coins (but for some higher ones too possibly):

    If a person was consigning coins to a Stacks auction, it's so easy to just "check a box" and have them bring the coin down the "Hall" to get the CMQ. NO extra postage, NO extra risk of shipping losses, NO time wasted in shipping. So this consignor could be one of the many who are not fans of stickering, and had not sent it to CAC, but since this process is so easy with CMQ, they decided to just check the box.

    After all, I believe there are many like me (and with time, even more like me) that if we see a coin consigned to a Stacks auction WITHOUT a CMQ or CAC sticker, a RED FLAG goes up telling us this this coin likely FAILED, since it would have been so easy and cheap to just have checked the box!

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,468 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ProofCollection said:

    @Catbert said:
    My perception of a slab with a solo stickr of CMQ would tell me that it failed CAC review and should be priced accordingly assuming I had an interest.

    Aside from not being a good assumption, what's wrong with that? The stickers do not purport to represent the same thing.

    I think it's an on target assumption. CAC is the predominant affirmation sticker in the market. With any coin of significant value, CAC would be the first choice for a seller who wishes to maximize return regardless whether they are not precisely the "same thing".

    Setting aside Steve's comment regarding coins in Stacks auctions and what a consignor would/should do, CMQ has not established the same credibility as CAC and rational actors must make inferential decisions based upon the information they have.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,679 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All of these grading results are just opinions guys. Informed opinions, for sure, but just opinions. The coins are what they are. Reaching a consensus on grading is never going to happen. As for the market, it will eventually decide, as it always does.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 3,977 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2024 12:51PM

    @BryceM said:
    All of these grading results are just opinions guys. Informed opinions, for sure, but just opinions. The coins are what they are. Reaching a consensus on grading is never going to happen. As for the market, it will eventually decide, as it always does.

    Yes, but since I don't have the eye, talent, or knowledge of JA and his team, I highly respect their opinion if they say a coin is not solid for the grade on the label, or even worse, that the coin underwent surface treatments that in their opinion are not acceptable, even though it apparently is acceptable to the graders at the TPG's.

    Yes, the coin is the coin, and CAC only offers their opinion, but are you comfortable with having a lot of coins in your collection that in their opinion are not solid for the grade on the label, and/or have underwent surface treatments that they deem unacceptable? I'm not.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996

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