Nobody said that the ETF isn't/doesn't track the price of gold.
The chart clearly shows that participation in the ETF (paper gold) is down.
And yet, the price of gold is significantly higher.
If "gold etf holdings haven't moved higher with spot price" as you say, then it's obvious that something besides paper gold is driving the price higher - and that something is global demand for real, physical gold - not paper.
Why is something this easy so difficult for you to understand?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said:
Nobody said that the ETF isn't/doesn't track the price of gold.
The chart clearly shows that participation in the ETF (paper gold) is down.
And yet, the price of gold is significantly higher.
If "gold etf holdings haven't moved higher with spot price" as you say, then it's obvious that something besides paper gold is driving the price higher - and that something is global demand for real, physical gold - not paper.
Why is something this easy so difficult for you to understand?
Understood completely,but that's not what derry tried to convey. That was rough getting it out of you guys.
_ "If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles per hour ($3000) you're gonna see some serious shit." - Doc Brown
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@GoldFinger1969 said:
The U.S. did not "weaponize" the dollar. Countries pursuing an aggressive war have ALWAYS faced loss of trade and financial freedoms.
Putin and Russia have confiscated Ukrainian and Western assets, companies, etc. We're dealing with a kleptocracy.
US and their lackeys in the EU did it first. No country has to voluntarily obey the "rules-based order" which the US just "made up". It's based upon the Wolfowitz Doctrine. Read up on it if you've never heard of it.
Most of the world doesn't seem to see it like the "international community". Most of the world is neutral and to the extent has reduced trade with the "axis of resistance, it's only because of potential US "blowback"
I'm not asking anyone here to agree with what I Just wrote. I'm telling anyone holding your view that US foreign policy is and has been a disaster, all the way back to the mid-90s. It's completely gone "off the rails" more recently and unless altered, will lead to future geopolitical "blowback" with serious potential consequences on the living standards and physical well-being of every American.
Most Americans are ignorant of US foreign policy or hold an absurd hubris believing in US invincibility where this country can attack any other with impunity and no consequences. Aside from direct participation in the conflict, the US has declared (close to) total economic war on Russia. The US is also on a path to open military conflict with three peer competitors simultaneously, wars in it's no position to successfully prosecute if the accounts I hear are accurate. That's Russia, China, and multiple Islamic countries combined.
The US and NATO are already at war with Russia, under the guise of a "proxy" war. This never would have happened during the Cold War and that should tell you something. The US never intervened in either Hungary (1956) or Czechoslovakia (1968) if for no other reason the foreign policy establishment at the time recognized the consequences of this response. We're talking about the country with the largest nuclear arsenal and potentially most powerful ground forces. This isn't Iraq or Afghanistan. The nuclear weapons didn't disappear with the end of the Cold War either.
This chart does not compare gold ETF prices with Gold prices. Rather, it is comparing gold price with HOLDINGS of the gold ETF. So it is showing that as the price of gold has been climbing recently, money is being taken out of the gold ETF? Perhaps a diverging trend due to a move to take physical possession.... or to cash in? Anyway that is what I see in it.
That is exactly what the chart is telling you. It is also telling you the divergence began when the US began weaponizing the dollar (the woke name for this is "sanctions"). Not only are investors turning away from paper gold and moving toward physical gold, but the international community, including some of the world's biggest trading partners, after being put on notice that the US will use it's money to punish its adversaries, are seeking alternatives to using (and holding) the US dollar in trade. The largest fallout of these "sanctions" is the formation and continued growth of BRICS which has expedited the downfall of the mighty petro-dollar.
Couldn't find it with a search, but somewhere in a past post here I warned shortly after the sanctions began that the US was shooting itself in the foot. Appears to be the case.
Sanctions as used by the US and EU are a form of economic warfare.
I do agree with @GoldFinger1969's inference that any individual trying to geographically diversify has a current problem, though I still consider the USG a criminal enterprise to be trusted only as absolutely necessary.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@blitzdude said:
WOW..aaaaaaaaaaand back to normal non-political reality.......This place really, really does get stranger by the day.
^2 SMH!
.
Are you able to rise above cartoonish replies in a serious debate ?
If you don't agree with a contention, next time perhaps try to articulate some meaningful counter-points.
@dcarr said:
Are you able to rise above cartoonish replies in a serious debate ?
If you don't agree with a contention, next time perhaps try to articulate some meaningful counter-points.
@dcarr said:
Are you able to rise above cartoonish replies in a serious debate ?
If you don't agree with a contention, next time perhaps try to articulate some meaningful counter-points.
.
Sure:
WOW. THKS!
.
Whom should I believe in this thread ?
Several posters who provided thoughtful commentary on the subject ?
Or the one poster who admits to pulling fake numbers out of his arse and makes false statements about having an engineering/physics degree ?
@dcarr said:
Are you able to rise above cartoonish replies in a serious debate ?
If you don't agree with a contention, next time perhaps try to articulate some meaningful counter-points.
I believe there is a concerted effort to spread mal and misinformation and create and spread "alternative facts" to seed civil distrust of everything. I believe this is done to instill fear and paranoia. I believe a scared and non-confident person is an easily controlled and manipulated person.
I believe many of us are unwitting--some purposefully--propagators of this agenda. I believe we have allowed ourselves to be pawns.
I believe it is not the loss of faith in a currency that leads to a countries failure, but rather the loss of faith in society that leads to the failure.
I believe we are weak, as we don't see what we are doing to ourselves.
I believe there is a concerted effort to spread mal and misinformation and create and spread "alternative facts" to seed civil distrust of everything.
The question is only as to what is misinformation and who is responsible for spreading it.
I believe it is not the loss of faith in a currency that leads to a countries failure, but rather the loss of faith in society that leads to the failure.
It's an indisputable truth that the privately-owned Federal Reserve creates "money" out of nothing and manipulates interest rates up or down to support an unaccountable system that is $35 trillion in un-payable debt.
Tell me how that's a good thing.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@Goldminers said:
Gold has now surpassed the Euro to become the second-largest reserve asset after the USD.
Gold now represents 16% of global bank reserves, and the dollar has dropped from 70% in 2002, to 58% in 2024 and continues to decline.
What? the dollar losing favor with global banks? Who'da guessed?
Of course there are a couple here who refuse to take their heads out of the sand and face the truth. LOL
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@jmski52 said: I believe there is a concerted effort to spread mal and misinformation and create and spread "alternative facts" to seed civil distrust of everything.
The question is only as to what is misinformation and who is responsible for spreading it.
I believe it is not the loss of faith in a currency that leads to a countries failure, but rather the loss of faith in society that leads to the failure.
It's an indisputable truth that the privately-owned Federal Reserve creates "money" out of nothing and manipulates interest rates up or down to support an unaccountable system that is $35 trillion in un-payable debt.
Tell me how that's a good thing.
The Federal Reserve is a quasi-private or quasi-public entity (take your choice), but your sentiments are essentially correct.
Monetary policy is a form of legalized counterfeiting. Central bank 2% inflation targets are a form of legalized theft. It's rationalized by calling it "public policy" where elected and appointed officials can get away with actions which would never be tolerated by anyone acting in a private capacity.
As for the USD's role as global reserve currency, it's going to take more than just a shrinking share of central bank reserves or settlement in international trade to displace it. The majority of non-local currency denominated debt is currently also in USD with huge demand for both principal and interest payments.
Concurrently, this doesn't mean there aren't future circumstances (no, not in the distant future) where foreign entities won't find another option, whether there is supposedly no alternative (TINA) or not. Everyone doesn't prioritize money over everything else like some on this forum seem to think.
I believe it is not the loss of faith in a currency that leads to a countries failure, but rather the loss of faith in society that leads to the failure.
Actually a loss of faith in a currency leads to that currency's failure. The US dollar is based on faith (in numerous things) and nothing else. Contrary to popular misbelief the government does not back the dollar. They leave it among us to place a value on it and to decide if we wish to barter with it, outside of the requirement to pay taxes with it.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Several other central banks are buying physical gold. Our central bank is buying US bonds instead, that might be paid back, with even more borrowed money with lower purchasing power in the future as more is created. What could go wrong?
I believe there is a concerted effort to spread mal and misinformation and create and spread "alternative facts" to seed civil distrust of everything. I believe this is done to instill fear and paranoia. I believe a scared and non-confident person is an easily controlled and manipulated person.
I believe many of us are unwitting--some purposefully--propagators of this agenda. I believe we have allowed ourselves to be pawns.
I believe it is not the loss of faith in a currency that leads to a countries failure, but rather the loss of faith in society that leads to the failure.
I believe we are weak, as we don't see what we are doing to ourselves.
I believe there is a concerted effort to spread mal and misinformation and create and spread "alternative facts" to seed civil distrust of everything. I believe this is done to instill fear and paranoia. I believe a scared and non-confident person is an easily controlled and manipulated person.
I believe many of us are unwitting--some purposefully--propagators of this agenda. I believe we have allowed ourselves to be pawns.
I believe it is not the loss of faith in a currency that leads to a countries failure, but rather the loss of faith in society that leads to the failure.
I believe we are weak, as we don't see what we are doing to ourselves.
.
There is an effort to misdirect and distract people from realizing what is going on in the financial realm.
You make your living in the financial industry as it is (and you have declined to indicate who you work for).
So naturally you want to defend the status quo.
It seems like you would prefer that people not know about or not believe the declining stature of the US Dollar as an international reserve currency. Or that demographics are in conflict with the long-term viability of a debt-based financial system.
Discussing the topic on a forum such as this does not make someone "weak".
I am personally somewhat skeptical of everything that is presented by the government and its detractors. Corporate propaganda, however, is definitely suspect. I don't accept any of that on its face.
When I hear a politician calling for wider availability of student loans and automobile loans I see that as more of the same type of effort to put people into debt servitude. It benefits banks, educational institutions, and auto manufacturers far more than the people the loans are supposed to "help".
The best advice that I can give is to stay out of debt, invest in your self and your own enterprises first, and definitely do not do something simply because that is what other people are doing. Be a contrarian.
When gold was $50, a $1K price projection was unheard of. $10K gold is inevitable. "When?" will be determined by the rate of US dollar destruction. Gold price is simply a reflection of the currency it is priced in and the same old FED tricks cannot change that fact.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I believe it is not the loss of faith in a currency that leads to a countries failure, but rather the loss of faith in society that leads to the failure.
Loss of faith in a currency leads to that currency's failure. When a national currency fails, that country's subsequent, rapid turmoil leads to it's failure from within.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I believe it is not the loss of faith in a currency that leads to a countries failure, but rather the loss of faith in society that leads to the failure.
Loss of faith in a currency leads to that currency's failure. When a national currency fails, that country's subsequent, rapid turmoil leads to it's failure from within.
Society fails before the currency. Folk can continue on without a currency, but a currency cannot without folk.
I believe it is not the loss of faith in a currency that leads to a countries failure, but rather the loss of faith in society that leads to the failure.
Loss of faith in a currency leads to that currency's failure. When a national currency fails, that country's subsequent, rapid turmoil leads to it's failure from within.
Society fails before the currency. Folk can continue on without a currency, but a currency cannot without folk.
Doesn't seem to make sense to me.... but I'm willing to learn.
Please provide examples and references to back your assertion that 'Society fails before the currency'. Or perhaps it is just your opinion?
Seems much more likely to me that abuse of the financial / currency system increasingly would cause disruptions and problems in society, causing difficulties leading to breakdown of trust and thus the deteriorating of society.
Comments
Nobody said that the ETF isn't/doesn't track the price of gold.
The chart clearly shows that participation in the ETF (paper gold) is down.
And yet, the price of gold is significantly higher.
If "gold etf holdings haven't moved higher with spot price" as you say, then it's obvious that something besides paper gold is driving the price higher - and that something is global demand for real, physical gold - not paper.
Why is something this easy so difficult for you to understand?
I knew it would happen.
This article says gold etfs have experienced inflows...
https://www.gold.org/goldhub/research/gold-etfs-holdings-and-flows/2024/09
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
OK, now I'm really confused, should I believe gold.org or Bulgaria hedge?
THKS!!
Statistics.... statistics..... statistics. Yes, who to believe?
They want us to agree with them when they can't even agree among themselves. Kinda like a pachyderm party.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Understood completely,but that's not what derry tried to convey. That was rough getting it out of you guys.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
_
"If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles per hour ($3000) you're gonna see some serious shit." - Doc Brown
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
US and their lackeys in the EU did it first. No country has to voluntarily obey the "rules-based order" which the US just "made up". It's based upon the Wolfowitz Doctrine. Read up on it if you've never heard of it.
Most of the world doesn't seem to see it like the "international community". Most of the world is neutral and to the extent has reduced trade with the "axis of resistance, it's only because of potential US "blowback"
I'm not asking anyone here to agree with what I Just wrote. I'm telling anyone holding your view that US foreign policy is and has been a disaster, all the way back to the mid-90s. It's completely gone "off the rails" more recently and unless altered, will lead to future geopolitical "blowback" with serious potential consequences on the living standards and physical well-being of every American.
Most Americans are ignorant of US foreign policy or hold an absurd hubris believing in US invincibility where this country can attack any other with impunity and no consequences. Aside from direct participation in the conflict, the US has declared (close to) total economic war on Russia. The US is also on a path to open military conflict with three peer competitors simultaneously, wars in it's no position to successfully prosecute if the accounts I hear are accurate. That's Russia, China, and multiple Islamic countries combined.
The US and NATO are already at war with Russia, under the guise of a "proxy" war. This never would have happened during the Cold War and that should tell you something. The US never intervened in either Hungary (1956) or Czechoslovakia (1968) if for no other reason the foreign policy establishment at the time recognized the consequences of this response. We're talking about the country with the largest nuclear arsenal and potentially most powerful ground forces. This isn't Iraq or Afghanistan. The nuclear weapons didn't disappear with the end of the Cold War either.
Sanctions as used by the US and EU are a form of economic warfare.
https://forbes.ge/en/the-most-sanctioned-countries/
I do agree with @GoldFinger1969's inference that any individual trying to geographically diversify has a current problem, though I still consider the USG a criminal enterprise to be trusted only as absolutely necessary.
WOW..aaaaaaaaaaand back to normal non-political reality.......This place really, really does get stranger by the day.
^2 SMH!
WOW, some people are just scared of the truth.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
.
Are you able to rise above cartoonish replies in a serious debate ?
If you don't agree with a contention, next time perhaps try to articulate some meaningful counter-points.
.
Sure:
WOW. THKS!
.
Whom should I believe in this thread ?
Several posters who provided thoughtful commentary on the subject ?
Or the one poster who admits to pulling fake numbers out of his arse and makes false statements about having an engineering/physics degree ?
.
Why believe anyone?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Why believe anyone?
What do you believe, coho?
I knew it would happen.
I believe there is a concerted effort to spread mal and misinformation and create and spread "alternative facts" to seed civil distrust of everything. I believe this is done to instill fear and paranoia. I believe a scared and non-confident person is an easily controlled and manipulated person.
I believe many of us are unwitting--some purposefully--propagators of this agenda. I believe we have allowed ourselves to be pawns.
I believe it is not the loss of faith in a currency that leads to a countries failure, but rather the loss of faith in society that leads to the failure.
I believe we are weak, as we don't see what we are doing to ourselves.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Gold has now surpassed the Euro to become the second-largest reserve asset after the USD.
Gold now represents 16% of global bank reserves, and the dollar has dropped from 70% in 2002, to 58% in 2024 and continues to decline.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I believe there is a concerted effort to spread mal and misinformation and create and spread "alternative facts" to seed civil distrust of everything.
The question is only as to what is misinformation and who is responsible for spreading it.
I believe it is not the loss of faith in a currency that leads to a countries failure, but rather the loss of faith in society that leads to the failure.
It's an indisputable truth that the privately-owned Federal Reserve creates "money" out of nothing and manipulates interest rates up or down to support an unaccountable system that is $35 trillion in un-payable debt.
Tell me how that's a good thing.
I knew it would happen.
What? the dollar losing favor with global banks? Who'da guessed?
Of course there are a couple here who refuse to take their heads out of the sand and face the truth. LOL
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
The Federal Reserve is a quasi-private or quasi-public entity (take your choice), but your sentiments are essentially correct.
Monetary policy is a form of legalized counterfeiting. Central bank 2% inflation targets are a form of legalized theft. It's rationalized by calling it "public policy" where elected and appointed officials can get away with actions which would never be tolerated by anyone acting in a private capacity.
As for the USD's role as global reserve currency, it's going to take more than just a shrinking share of central bank reserves or settlement in international trade to displace it. The majority of non-local currency denominated debt is currently also in USD with huge demand for both principal and interest payments.
Concurrently, this doesn't mean there aren't future circumstances (no, not in the distant future) where foreign entities won't find another option, whether there is supposedly no alternative (TINA) or not. Everyone doesn't prioritize money over everything else like some on this forum seem to think.
Actually a loss of faith in a currency leads to that currency's failure. The US dollar is based on faith (in numerous things) and nothing else. Contrary to popular misbelief the government does not back the dollar. They leave it among us to place a value on it and to decide if we wish to barter with it, outside of the requirement to pay taxes with it.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Several other central banks are buying physical gold. Our central bank is buying US bonds instead, that might be paid back, with even more borrowed money with lower purchasing power in the future as more is created. What could go wrong?
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Well said, well said. RGDS!
.
There is an effort to misdirect and distract people from realizing what is going on in the financial realm.
You make your living in the financial industry as it is (and you have declined to indicate who you work for).
So naturally you want to defend the status quo.
It seems like you would prefer that people not know about or not believe the declining stature of the US Dollar as an international reserve currency. Or that demographics are in conflict with the long-term viability of a debt-based financial system.
Discussing the topic on a forum such as this does not make someone "weak".
I am personally somewhat skeptical of everything that is presented by the government and its detractors. Corporate propaganda, however, is definitely suspect. I don't accept any of that on its face.
When I hear a politician calling for wider availability of student loans and automobile loans I see that as more of the same type of effort to put people into debt servitude. It benefits banks, educational institutions, and auto manufacturers far more than the people the loans are supposed to "help".
The best advice that I can give is to stay out of debt, invest in your self and your own enterprises first, and definitely do not do something simply because that is what other people are doing. Be a contrarian.
.
Gold Prices and Inflation: An Analytical Overview
When gold was $50, a $1K price projection was unheard of. $10K gold is inevitable. "When?" will be determined by the rate of US dollar destruction. Gold price is simply a reflection of the currency it is priced in and the same old FED tricks cannot change that fact.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Loss of faith in a currency leads to that currency's failure. When a national currency fails, that country's subsequent, rapid turmoil leads to it's failure from within.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Society fails before the currency. Folk can continue on without a currency, but a currency cannot without folk.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
If the credit cards and iphones fail to work, "society" will cease to function.
I knew it would happen.
Doesn't seem to make sense to me.... but I'm willing to learn.
Please provide examples and references to back your assertion that 'Society fails before the currency'. Or perhaps it is just your opinion?
Seems much more likely to me that abuse of the financial / currency system increasingly would cause disruptions and problems in society, causing difficulties leading to breakdown of trust and thus the deteriorating of society.
But then.... I'm no financial expert.