Then how do you figure to "transfer wealth to your heirs without taking a tax hit"?
Willie Brown's ex-girlfriend wants to raise your cap gains rate to 44%. I'd like to hear how you're going to pay your fair share and avoid taking a tax hit. Please clarify.
On another note, how is the economy BOOMIN' when BLS just announced that 818,000 jobs never really existed as they had reported? Sounds like a poor economy to me.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@MsMorrisine said:
i'll listen to a case for 10k when it's 9k
Those that waited for $2500 before buying are likely regretting not buying at 2000 when the case for 2500 gold was being made. I'll gladly sell you my 2K gold for 9K as we near 10K.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
On another note, how is the economy BOOMIN' when BLS just announced that 818,000 jobs never really existed as they had reported? Sounds like a poor economy to me.
@DoroDoro said:
The idea of $10,000 gold is attractive. With all the economic uncertainty and inflation, people are looking for safe >places to spend money. Gold has always been a solid choice for that. Its value holds up well when the market is >shaky. Plus, as more people realize this, demand could increase prices.
I don't know anybody throwing out a $10,000 PT, except nuts looking for clickbait. I think my twin forecasts are reasonable based on the existing price, supply and demand, and the current outlook. $10,000 implies some unforseen catastrophic financial or global disruption/catastrophe. I assume $10K forecast is not for 30 years in the future.
I’ve read that some experts believe gold could hit those lofty heights in the coming years. It might sound wild, but >who knows if things keep going the way they are? If you're curious about the gold investment, it might be worth >checking out different perspectives and exploring options. You can find more info at explorejapannow.com.
Bill Gates got rich from equity investing, not sure why that would mean anything for plugging gold.
Inflation is coming down....and when things get dicey, folks move into Treasuries. If lots of people want gold, then it could spike $150 a day for 2-3 days. When that happens it will probably be time to SELL.
@derryb said:
"Gold at $10,000 is just a 4X gain from here. From 2001 to 2011, gold went up more than that." - [Peter Schiff]
Except that price of gold was down by 60% over 20 years. Conversely, gold is UP 2.5x in a bit over a decade. today.
We WILL go higher but the click-bait predictions by carnival barkers are not helpful.
The click bait carnival barker (one of the few who predicted the 08 fiasco) simply pointed out that gold has previously gone up 4X in ten years (history rhymes). If you know this to not be true please show us. I find click-bait predictions can be helpful if the source has proven itself accurate in the past.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
@jmski52 said: Perhaps one buys gold so they can simply transfer wealth to their heirs without taking a tax hit?
Surely, you aren’t advocating cheating Uncle Sam out of his tax revenues when your heirs have a cost basis of zero?
Not at all. I gladly pay my fair share and more. It's a shame most of the worthless rich scum sucking parasites don't feel the same. THKS!
Maybe you can tell us “ how much is our fair share” I’ve been paying for many, many years and according to some it’s not enough. Is fair share 37%, 47%, 57% or 67%??
I really don’t mind paying My Fair Share but I’d love to know what “A Fair Share” is??
Nobody’s stopping Warren buffet or gates, musk or anyone else from writing an additional check, just to help out. As a matter of fact u could write an additional check to the IRS as well. Do u pay more tax than u have to? Do you take all the deductions u are entitled to? Do u work within the framework of our laws? Are these people that u refer to working within the law? If they cheating I hope they into trouble but if they are not cheating and just know how to minimize their tax burden then I think they are smart and good business men or women.
JMHO,
Mike
@derryb said:
"Gold at $10,000 is just a 4X gain from here. From 2001 to 2011, gold went up more than that." - [Peter Schiff]
Except that price of gold was down by 60% over 20 years. Conversely, gold is UP 2.5x in a bit over a decade. today.
We WILL go higher but the click-bait predictions by carnival barkers are not helpful.
The click bait carnival barker (one of the few who predicted the 08 fiasco) simply pointed out that gold has previously gone up 4X in ten years (history rhymes). If you know this to not be true please show us. I find click-bait predictions can be helpful if the source has proven itself accurate in the past.
WHat's his track record year by year ? Lots of people predicted the 2008 GFC, nothing special. It's how they made $$$ before, during, and AFTER the GFC that matters.
Gold was dirt-cheap when it went up from 2001-2011. It had done NOTHING for 20+ years. Conversely, gold is up 50% in 4 years and double the last 10-11.
@derryb said:
"Gold at $10,000 is just a 4X gain from here. From 2001 to 2011, gold went up more than that." - [Peter Schiff]
Except that price of gold was down by 60% over 20 years. Conversely, gold is UP 2.5x in a bit over a decade. today.
We WILL go higher but the click-bait predictions by carnival barkers are not helpful.
The click bait carnival barker (one of the few who predicted the 08 fiasco) simply pointed out that gold has previously gone up 4X in ten years (history rhymes). If you know this to not be true please show us. I find click-bait predictions can be helpful if the source has proven itself accurate in the past.
WHat's his track record year by year ? I like Schiff and he has interesting things to say, but he is making a "prediction" on price without having actually made one so he can have it both ways.
Gold was dirt-cheap when it went up from 2001-2011. It had done NOTHING for 20+ years. Conversely, gold is up 50% in 4 years and double the last 10-11.
"It's the economy stupid" - James Carville
When will you learn. Gold does not go up or down. The currency it is priced in is what moves up or down. Gold price is simply a reflection of the money supply and the perceived state of the economy
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
@derryb said:
"Gold at $10,000 is just a 4X gain from here. From 2001 to 2011, gold went up more than that." - [Peter Schiff]
Except that price of gold was down by 60% over 20 years. Conversely, gold is UP 2.5x in a bit over a decade. today.
We WILL go higher but the click-bait predictions by carnival barkers are not helpful.
The click bait carnival barker (one of the few who predicted the 08 fiasco) simply pointed out that gold has previously gone up 4X in ten years (history rhymes). If you know this to not be true please show us. I find click-bait predictions can be helpful if the source has proven itself accurate in the past.
WHat's his track record year by year ? I like Schiff and he has interesting things to say, but he is making a "prediction" on price without having actually made one so he can have it both ways.
Gold was dirt-cheap when it went up from 2001-2011. It had done NOTHING for 20+ years. Conversely, gold is up 50% in 4 years and double the last 10-11.
God bless the Metal o' Kings. Shiffs a quack imo. #BOOMIN#. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
@blitzdude said:
God bless the Metal o' Kings. Shiffs a quack imo. #BOOMIN#. RGDS!
In fairness, it wasn't Schiff who I should have realized would not make that kind of reckless call. It was some guy I never heard of with no track record as far as I can see.
@derryb said:
"Gold at $10,000 is just a 4X gain from here. From 2001 to 2011, gold went up more than that." - [Peter Schiff]
Except that price of gold was down by 60% over 20 years. Conversely, gold is UP 2.5x in a bit over a decade. today.
We WILL go higher but the click-bait predictions by carnival barkers are not helpful.
The click bait carnival barker (one of the few who predicted the 08 fiasco) simply pointed out that gold has previously gone up 4X in ten years (history rhymes). If you know this to not be true please show us. I find click-bait predictions can be helpful if the source has proven itself accurate in the past.
WHat's his track record year by year ? I like Schiff and he has interesting things to say, but he is making a "prediction" on price without having actually made one so he can have it both ways.
Gold was dirt-cheap when it went up from 2001-2011. It had done NOTHING for 20+ years. Conversely, gold is up 50% in 4 years and double the last 10-11.
"It's the economy stupid" - James Carville
When will you learn. Gold does not go up or down. The currency it is priced in is what moves up or down. Gold price is simply a reflection of the money supply and the perceived state of the economy
Is that because it is a non-productive asset? Throws off no income stream? Is not innovative?
You make the same argument for lead? Performance is darn near the same over the last 20-25 years.
Tin and lead and everything else simply show that the Dollar doesn't buy as much as it used to.
FRED apparently does not post charts for the global prices of silver and gold. Why is that ?
The FRED copper chart has similar percentage moves to tin:
@cohodk said:
That chart does not support your contention. Gold ETF prices have moved lock step with gold price.
Gold and the Gold ETFs have diverged in the recent move going back a year, mostly because retail has NOT moved gold this time but institutions and CBs.
@cohodk said:
That chart does not support your contention. Gold ETF prices have moved lock step with gold price.
Gold and the Gold ETFs have diverged in the recent move going back a year, mostly because retail has NOT moved gold this time but institutions and CBs.
You and derryb are trying to compare 2 different things... Inventory and price. Those are not the same. The gold etf has performed lock step with spot gold. The gold etf could never again add a single ounce and it would still trade in line with spot.
However, there could be a time when folk prefer ease of transaction, especially if physical gets crazy, and decide paper is better.
You and derryb are trying to compare 2 different things... Inventory and price. Those are not the same. The gold etf has performed lock step with spot gold. The gold etf could never again add a single ounce and it would still trade in line with spot.
However, there could be a time when folk prefer ease of transaction, especially if physical gets crazy, and decide paper is better
You make the mistake of assuming that the derivative market will never crash or default. Good luck with that. It doesn't matter whether the ETF tracks the price of gold - isn't it supposed to do that?
What matters is that the gold being held in the ETF is declining while the price of gold is going higher. Does this mean that fewer people are getting into the ETF? It illustrates a lack of trust in the ETF.
We've discussed all this many times before, and we know that the ETF prospectus us very hazy about who owns the gold, how much is held, and where it is held. Why would anyone trust that crap?
(Well, maybe blitzie would, but not too many others who have a grain of sense.)
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said: You and derryb are trying to compare 2 different things... Inventory and price. Those are not the same. The gold etf has performed lock step with spot gold. The gold etf could never again add a single ounce and it would still trade in line with spot.
However, there could be a time when folk prefer ease of transaction, especially if physical gets crazy, and decide paper is better
You make the mistake of assuming that the derivative market will never crash or default. Good luck with that. It doesn't matter whether the ETF tracks the price of gold - isn't it supposed to do that?
What matters is that the gold being held in the ETF is declining while the price of gold is going higher. Does this mean that fewer people are getting into the ETF? It illustrates a lack of trust in the ETF.
We've discussed all this many times before, and we know that the ETF prospectus us very hazy about who owns the gold, how much is held, and where it is held. Why would anyone trust that crap?
(Well, maybe blitzie would, but not too many others who have a grain of sense.)
.
Foreign central banks want gold that they can be the custodian of, not ETF shares where some other entity is custodian.
That is reflected in the chart.
@derryb said:
And another reason to hold physical and not paper:
That chart does not support your contention. Gold ETF prices have moved lock step with gold price.
There seems to be some confusion on this chart?
This chart does not compare gold ETF prices with Gold prices. Rather, it is comparing gold price with HOLDINGS of the gold ETF. So it is showing that as the price of gold has been climbing recently, money is being taken out of the gold ETF? Perhaps a diverging trend due to a move to take physical possession.... or to cash in? Anyway that is what I see in it.
You and derryb are trying to compare 2 different things... Inventory and price. Those are not the same.
Maybe that's why they each have their own line in the chart. The chart is simply showing you that the two different items moved in unison since 2018 until suddenly in 2022 they clearly began moving in different directions.
FWIW, in the future try two understand that when a chart shows two items it is because they are two different items.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
This chart does not compare gold ETF prices with Gold prices. Rather, it is comparing gold price with HOLDINGS of the gold ETF. So it is showing that as the price of gold has been climbing recently, money is being taken out of the gold ETF? Perhaps a diverging trend due to a move to take physical possession.... or to cash in? Anyway that is what I see in it.
That is exactly what the chart is telling you. It is also telling you the divergence began when the US began weaponizing the dollar (the woke name for this is "sanctions"). Not only are investors turning away from paper gold and moving toward physical gold, but the international community, including some of the world's biggest trading partners, after being put on notice that the US will use it's money to punish its adversaries, are seeking alternatives to using (and holding) the US dollar in trade. The largest fallout of these "sanctions" is the formation and continued growth of BRICS which has expedited the downfall of the mighty petro-dollar.
Couldn't find it with a search, but somewhere in a past post here I warned shortly after the sanctions began that the US was shooting itself in the foot. Appears to be the case.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Looks like they tracked pretty well together until spring of 2022.... but now that is quite a change ..... and seems to be going downward fast. Wonder it silver etf is showing the same trend (may look it up later).
@cohodk said:
You and derryb are trying to compare 2 different things... Inventory and price. Those are not the same. The gold etf has performed lock step with spot gold. The gold etf could never again add a single ounce and it would still trade in line with spot.
All I am saying is that gold flows to the ETF are DOWN yet gold's price has moved UP. This is an anomaly.
This chart does not compare gold ETF prices with Gold prices. Rather, it is comparing gold price with HOLDINGS of the gold ETF. So it is showing that as the price of gold has been climbing recently, money is being taken out of the gold ETF? Perhaps a diverging trend due to a move to take physical possession.... or to cash in? Anyway that is what I see in it.
That is exactly what the chart is telling you. It is also telling you the divergence began when the US began weaponizing the dollar (the woke name for this is "sanctions"). Not only are investors turning away from paper gold and moving toward physical gold, but the international community, including some of the world's biggest trading partners, after being put on notice that the US will use it's money to punish its adversaries, are seeking alternatives to using (and holding) the US dollar in trade. The largest fallout of these "sanctions" is the formation and continued growth of BRICS which has expedited the downfall of the mighty petro-dollar.
Couldn't find it with a search, but somewhere in a past post here I warned shortly after the sanctions began that the US was shooting itself in the foot. Appears to be the case.
More nonsense. The dollar is involved in at least 1 of the 2 transaction ends for 90% of all currency transactions.
You want us to believe that people with money are afraid of the rule of law and property rights in the U.S....but are willing to put it into Brazil (where a judge wants to throw Elon Musk in jail and shut down Twitter/X) or Russia, where Putin steals whatever he wants.
Go ahead and put your money where your mouth is. Send them ALL your money.
You want us to believe that people with money are afraid of the rule of law and property rights in the U.S....but are willing to put it into Brazil (where a judge wants to throw Elon Musk in jail and shut down Twitter/X) or Russia, where Putin steals whatever he wants.
How did your sense of deduction come up with this BS?
Go ahead and put your money where your mouth is. Send them ALL your money.
My money has always been where my mouth is: dollar insurance.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
@cohodk said:
You and derryb are trying to compare 2 different things... Inventory and price. Those are not the same. The gold etf has performed lock step with spot gold. The gold etf could never again add a single ounce and it would still trade in line with spot.
All I am saying is that gold flows to the ETF are DOWN yet gold's price has moved UP. This is an anomaly.
It's called a paradigm shift: A NEW norm.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
You want us to believe that people with money are afraid of the rule of law and property rights in the U.S....but are willing to put it into Brazil (where a judge wants to throw Elon Musk in jail and shut down Twitter/X) or Russia, where Putin steals whatever he wants.
You obviously aren't tracking what the BRICS are doing, or why they're doing it. They aren't going to have to trust Brazil for anything because the system will be self-correcting if Brazil deigns not to play by the rules.
Please explain how what Putin does is somehow different than what the central banks do on a daily basis.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
You and derryb are trying to compare 2 different things... Inventory and price. Those are not the same.
Maybe that's why they each have their own line in the chart. The chart is simply showing you that the two different items moved in unison since 2018 until suddenly in 2022 they clearly began moving in different directions.
FWIW, in the future try two understand that when a chart shows two items it is because they are two different items.
No...you showed the chart as a means to show why one should hold physical over paper. You shows a price line going up and and inventory line going down. That in no way shape or form supports your claim support owning one over the other.
Maybe you should stop borrowing others' I'll formed opinions and have one of your own. Or maybe understand what information is actually being presented so you don't contribute to the mis and mal-information so many like to ingest.
@cohodk said: you showed the chart as a means to show why one should hold physical over paper. You shows a price line going up and and inventory line going down. That in no way shape or form supports your claim support owning one over the other.
The amount of gold being held in the ETF is declining while the price of gold is going higher. What does coho think this means? It sure looks obvious that people are leaving the ETF. The price of gold is rising. It sure looks obvious that more people are buying gold, not paper gold.
Maybe coho should take his own advice about borrowing his bosses' opinions and have one of his own.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
The amount of gold being held in the ETF is declining while the price of gold is going higher. What does coho think this means? It sure looks obvious that people are leaving the ETF. The price of gold is rising. It sure looks obvious that more people are buying gold, not paper gold.
Perhaps it just means your master dictators are accumulating physical gold and Joe/Joan the plumber is cashing out their paper gold profits to invest their $$$$ in paper investments elsewhere??? THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
You and derryb are trying to compare 2 different things... Inventory and price. Those are not the same.
Maybe that's why they each have their own line in the chart. The chart is simply showing you that the two different items moved in unison since 2018 until suddenly in 2022 they clearly began moving in different directions.
FWIW, in the future try two understand that when a chart shows two items it is because they are two different items.
No...you showed the chart as a means to show why one should hold physical over paper. You shows a price line going up and and inventory line going down. That in no way shape or form supports your claim support owning one over the other.
Maybe you should stop borrowing others' I'll formed opinions and have one of your own. Or maybe understand what information is actually being presented so you don't contribute to the mis and mal-information so many like to ingest.
.
It confirms what I wrote recently.
Central banks buy physical gold so that they can have full possession of it.
They don't want an ETF because that defeats the purpose of owning physical gold in the first place.
The chart is indicative of this trend where retail speculators are getting out of the ETF, while central banks are buying physical gold.
@jmski52 said:
_ Joe/Joan the plumber is cashing out their paper gold profits to invest their $$$$ in paper investments elsewhere??? THKS!_
Is that what you're doing? Are you chickening out of physical gold too? You'll wish you hadn't.
Where did I ever say I was cashing out of physical Au? I've said it a thousand times the physical Au is not for sale. You sure do love to try to spin and create disinformation but then again that's what your master dictator programed you for. Sorry Jim, keep reaching. SMH!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
@jmski52 said: @cohodk said: you showed the chart as a means to show why one should hold physical over paper. You shows a price line going up and and inventory line going down. That in no way shape or form supports your claim support owning one over the other.
The amount of gold being held in the ETF is declining while the price of gold is going higher. What does coho think this means? It sure looks obvious that people are leaving the ETF. The price of gold is rising. It sure looks obvious that more people are buying gold, not paper gold.
Maybe coho should take his own advice about borrowing his bosses' opinions and have one of his own.
Jmski, it doesn't matter if folk are "leaving" the etf as the price of it will track spot so there this chart does nor provide an argument for one to "hold physical over paper" as contended by derry.
If derry wanted to post to chart and say, "hey look, gold etf holdings havent moved higher with spot price", then he would be correct. But he didn't. And therefore the debate.
Here's a link to the same chart....seems like it might not be what you want it to be.
@jmski52 said: @cohodk said: you showed the chart as a means to show why one should hold physical over paper. You shows a price line going up and and inventory line going down. That in no way shape or form supports your claim support owning one over the other.
Maybe coho should take his own advice about borrowing his bosses' opinions and have one of his own.
Jmski, it doesn't matter if folk are "leaving" the etf as the price of it will track spot so there this chart does nor provide an argument for one to "hold physical over paper" as contended by derry.
If derry wanted to post to chart and say, "hey look, gold etf holdings havent moved higher with spot price", then he would be correct. But he didn't. And therefore the debate.
He would have been incorrect. What is correct is that ETF gold holdings have moved much lower while spot price has increased. As shown by the charts, after years of tracking each other very closely, positions in paper gold suddenly dropped and continue to do so as the price of gold increases.
It is obvious that people are leaving gold ETFs while the price of gold is rising. The chart clearly shows, that since weaponization of the currency sanctions more people are turning to real gold in lieu of a paper promise for gold. In a world before sanctions ETF holdings would continue to climb with spot. We know a loss of faith in a currency will drive gold priced in that currency higher. But, how does the politization of a currency destroy demand for a promise of gold in that currency? The answer: Sanctions showed the world (and gold buyers) that it might want to re-consider the financial promises it holds. This is the major cause of an expanding BRICS and it is, as shown by the chart, a major cause for a continuing decline in gold promises.
A paper promise in the financial world can disappear with the stroke of a pen. As economic uncertainty grows so will the price of real assets.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Comments
Not at all. I gladly pay my fair share and more.
Then how do you figure to "transfer wealth to your heirs without taking a tax hit"?
Willie Brown's ex-girlfriend wants to raise your cap gains rate to 44%. I'd like to hear how you're going to pay your fair share and avoid taking a tax hit. Please clarify.
On another note, how is the economy BOOMIN' when BLS just announced that 818,000 jobs never really existed as they had reported? Sounds like a poor economy to me.
I knew it would happen.
i'll listen to a case for 10k when it's 9k
Those that waited for $2500 before buying are likely regretting not buying at 2000 when the case for 2500 gold was being made. I'll gladly sell you my 2K gold for 9K as we near 10K.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
.> @jmski52 said:
If it ain't BOOMIN where you life.....move.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
the point is, we're at 2500 and 10000 is 4x away. we're moving 50/day tops but with all the ups and downs it is moving up less than 50/wk
it's too early to talk about 5k
I don't know anybody throwing out a $10,000 PT, except nuts looking for clickbait. I think my twin forecasts are reasonable based on the existing price, supply and demand, and the current outlook. $10,000 implies some unforseen catastrophic financial or global disruption/catastrophe. I assume $10K forecast is not for 30 years in the future.
Bill Gates got rich from equity investing, not sure why that would mean anything for plugging gold.
Inflation is coming down....and when things get dicey, folks move into Treasuries. If lots of people want gold, then it could spike $150 a day for 2-3 days. When that happens it will probably be time to SELL.
"Gold at $10,000 is just a 4X gain from here. From 2001 to 2011, gold went up more than that." - Peter Schiff
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I vote for $26,000 Au. It's only a 10x bagger from here. God bless the Metal of Kings. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
what was the average weekly gain in percentage over that time?
Except that price of gold was down by 60% over 20 years. Conversely, gold is UP 2.5x in a bit over a decade. today.
We WILL go higher but the click-bait predictions by carnival barkers are not helpful.
The click bait carnival barker (one of the few who predicted the 08 fiasco) simply pointed out that gold has previously gone up 4X in ten years (history rhymes). If you know this to not be true please show us. I find click-bait predictions can be helpful if the source has proven itself accurate in the past.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Maybe you can tell us “ how much is our fair share” I’ve been paying for many, many years and according to some it’s not enough. Is fair share 37%, 47%, 57% or 67%??
I really don’t mind paying My Fair Share but I’d love to know what “A Fair Share” is??
Nobody’s stopping Warren buffet or gates, musk or anyone else from writing an additional check, just to help out. As a matter of fact u could write an additional check to the IRS as well. Do u pay more tax than u have to? Do you take all the deductions u are entitled to? Do u work within the framework of our laws? Are these people that u refer to working within the law? If they cheating I hope they into trouble but if they are not cheating and just know how to minimize their tax burden then I think they are smart and good business men or women.
JMHO,
Mike
MIKE B.
Don't count out inflation rearing its ugly head and the fed having to pause/raise rates again.
That could happen in 2025.
I see 2700 gold by the end of 2024.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
WHat's his track record year by year ? Lots of people predicted the 2008 GFC, nothing special. It's how they made $$$ before, during, and AFTER the GFC that matters.
Gold was dirt-cheap when it went up from 2001-2011. It had done NOTHING for 20+ years. Conversely, gold is up 50% in 4 years and double the last 10-11.
"It's the economy stupid" - James Carville
When will you learn. Gold does not go up or down. The currency it is priced in is what moves up or down. Gold price is simply a reflection of the money supply and the perceived state of the economy
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
God bless the Metal o' Kings. Shiffs a quack imo. #BOOMIN#. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
In fairness, it wasn't Schiff who I should have realized would not make that kind of reckless call. It was some guy I never heard of with no track record as far as I can see.
Is that because it is a non-productive asset? Throws off no income stream? Is not innovative?
You make the same argument for lead? Performance is darn near the same over the last 20-25 years.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PLEADUSDQ
Or maybe tin,which looks to have done better than gold?
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PTINUSDQ
Got tin? Lol
You guys make up the dumbest narratives and excuses. Haha.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
got dollars? LOL
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Showing you that tin has outperformed gold and your narrative is flat, and that's the best response you've got? Lol
And yes, more everyday. You?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
You're gonna need 'em, they are worth less.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Tin and lead and everything else simply show that the Dollar doesn't buy as much as it used to.
FRED apparently does not post charts for the global prices of silver and gold. Why is that ?
The FRED copper chart has similar percentage moves to tin:
And another reason to hold physical and not paper:
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
That chart does not support your contention. Gold ETF prices have moved lock step with gold price.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The U.S. did not "weaponize" the dollar. Countries pursuing an aggressive war have ALWAYS faced loss of trade and financial freedoms.
Putin and Russia have confiscated Ukrainian and Western assets, companies, etc. We're dealing with a kleptocracy.
Gold and the Gold ETFs have diverged in the recent move going back a year, mostly because retail has NOT moved gold this time but institutions and CBs.
That chart does not support your contention. Gold ETF prices have moved lock step with gold price.
The chart does clearly support his contention.
The U.S. did not "weaponize" the dollar.
Why do 159 less-developed countries want to join the BRICS?
We're dealing with a kleptocracy.
Yes - it's called the Federal Reserve System and they should ALL be held criminally liable.
I knew it would happen.
You and derryb are trying to compare 2 different things... Inventory and price. Those are not the same. The gold etf has performed lock step with spot gold. The gold etf could never again add a single ounce and it would still trade in line with spot.
However, there could be a time when folk prefer ease of transaction, especially if physical gets crazy, and decide paper is better.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
You and derryb are trying to compare 2 different things... Inventory and price. Those are not the same. The gold etf has performed lock step with spot gold. The gold etf could never again add a single ounce and it would still trade in line with spot.
However, there could be a time when folk prefer ease of transaction, especially if physical gets crazy, and decide paper is better
You make the mistake of assuming that the derivative market will never crash or default. Good luck with that. It doesn't matter whether the ETF tracks the price of gold - isn't it supposed to do that?
What matters is that the gold being held in the ETF is declining while the price of gold is going higher. Does this mean that fewer people are getting into the ETF? It illustrates a lack of trust in the ETF.
We've discussed all this many times before, and we know that the ETF prospectus us very hazy about who owns the gold, how much is held, and where it is held. Why would anyone trust that crap?
(Well, maybe blitzie would, but not too many others who have a grain of sense.)
I knew it would happen.
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Foreign central banks want gold that they can be the custodian of, not ETF shares where some other entity is custodian.
That is reflected in the chart.
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There seems to be some confusion on this chart?
This chart does not compare gold ETF prices with Gold prices. Rather, it is comparing gold price with HOLDINGS of the gold ETF. So it is showing that as the price of gold has been climbing recently, money is being taken out of the gold ETF? Perhaps a diverging trend due to a move to take physical possession.... or to cash in? Anyway that is what I see in it.
Maybe that's why they each have their own line in the chart. The chart is simply showing you that the two different items moved in unison since 2018 until suddenly in 2022 they clearly began moving in different directions.
FWIW, in the future try two understand that when a chart shows two items it is because they are two different items.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Economic sanctions are the weaponization of the dollar when diplomacy has failed.
Tell that to your leaders. LOL
In response to US "sanctions" that are nothing more than using the dollar as a weapon.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
That is exactly what the chart is telling you. It is also telling you the divergence began when the US began weaponizing the dollar (the woke name for this is "sanctions"). Not only are investors turning away from paper gold and moving toward physical gold, but the international community, including some of the world's biggest trading partners, after being put on notice that the US will use it's money to punish its adversaries, are seeking alternatives to using (and holding) the US dollar in trade. The largest fallout of these "sanctions" is the formation and continued growth of BRICS which has expedited the downfall of the mighty petro-dollar.
Couldn't find it with a search, but somewhere in a past post here I warned shortly after the sanctions began that the US was shooting itself in the foot. Appears to be the case.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Looks like they tracked pretty well together until spring of 2022.... but now that is quite a change ..... and seems to be going downward fast. Wonder it silver etf is showing the same trend (may look it up later).
All I am saying is that gold flows to the ETF are DOWN yet gold's price has moved UP. This is an anomaly.
More nonsense. The dollar is involved in at least 1 of the 2 transaction ends for 90% of all currency transactions.
You want us to believe that people with money are afraid of the rule of law and property rights in the U.S....but are willing to put it into Brazil (where a judge wants to throw Elon Musk in jail and shut down Twitter/X) or Russia, where Putin steals whatever he wants.
Go ahead and put your money where your mouth is. Send them ALL your money.
Fact check: "de-dollarization is evident in FX reserves, where the dollar’s share has declined to a record low of 58%"
How did your sense of deduction come up with this BS?
My money has always been where my mouth is: dollar insurance.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
It's called a paradigm shift: A NEW norm.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
gold flows to the ETF are DOWN yet gold's price has moved UP. This is an anomaly.
Ya think? Tell that to coho.
I knew it would happen.
You want us to believe that people with money are afraid of the rule of law and property rights in the U.S....but are willing to put it into Brazil (where a judge wants to throw Elon Musk in jail and shut down Twitter/X) or Russia, where Putin steals whatever he wants.
You obviously aren't tracking what the BRICS are doing, or why they're doing it. They aren't going to have to trust Brazil for anything because the system will be self-correcting if Brazil deigns not to play by the rules.
Please explain how what Putin does is somehow different than what the central banks do on a daily basis.
I knew it would happen.
No...you showed the chart as a means to show why one should hold physical over paper. You shows a price line going up and and inventory line going down. That in no way shape or form supports your claim support owning one over the other.
Maybe you should stop borrowing others' I'll formed opinions and have one of your own. Or maybe understand what information is actually being presented so you don't contribute to the mis and mal-information so many like to ingest.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
@cohodk said: you showed the chart as a means to show why one should hold physical over paper. You shows a price line going up and and inventory line going down. That in no way shape or form supports your claim support owning one over the other.
The amount of gold being held in the ETF is declining while the price of gold is going higher. What does coho think this means? It sure looks obvious that people are leaving the ETF. The price of gold is rising. It sure looks obvious that more people are buying gold, not paper gold.
Maybe coho should take his own advice about borrowing his bosses' opinions and have one of his own.
I knew it would happen.
Perhaps it just means your master dictators are accumulating physical gold and Joe/Joan the plumber is cashing out their paper gold profits to invest their $$$$ in paper investments elsewhere??? THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Joe/Joan the plumber is cashing out their paper gold profits to invest their $$$$ in paper investments elsewhere??? THKS!
Is that what you're doing? Are you chickening out of physical gold too? You'll wish you hadn't.
I knew it would happen.
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It confirms what I wrote recently.
Central banks buy physical gold so that they can have full possession of it.
They don't want an ETF because that defeats the purpose of owning physical gold in the first place.
The chart is indicative of this trend where retail speculators are getting out of the ETF, while central banks are buying physical gold.
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Where did I ever say I was cashing out of physical Au? I've said it a thousand times the physical Au is not for sale. You sure do love to try to spin and create disinformation but then again that's what your master dictator programed you for. Sorry Jim, keep reaching. SMH!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Where did I ever say I was cashing out of physical Au? I've said it a thousand times the physical Au is not for sale.
Then what makes you think that "Joe/Joan the plumber is cashing out of their paper gold to invest their $$$$ in paper investments elsewhere"
You aren't making sense. Then again, that's no surprise.
I knew it would happen.
Jmski, it doesn't matter if folk are "leaving" the etf as the price of it will track spot so there this chart does nor provide an argument for one to "hold physical over paper" as contended by derry.
If derry wanted to post to chart and say, "hey look, gold etf holdings havent moved higher with spot price", then he would be correct. But he didn't. And therefore the debate.
Here's a link to the same chart....seems like it might not be what you want it to be.
https://en.macromicro.me/collections/45/mm-gold-price/712/spdr-gold-trust-etf-gold-price
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
He would have been incorrect. What is correct is that ETF gold holdings have moved much lower while spot price has increased. As shown by the charts, after years of tracking each other very closely, positions in paper gold suddenly dropped and continue to do so as the price of gold increases.
It is obvious that people are leaving gold ETFs while the price of gold is rising. The chart clearly shows, that since weaponization of the currency sanctions more people are turning to real gold in lieu of a paper promise for gold. In a world before sanctions ETF holdings would continue to climb with spot. We know a loss of faith in a currency will drive gold priced in that currency higher. But, how does the politization of a currency destroy demand for a promise of gold in that currency? The answer: Sanctions showed the world (and gold buyers) that it might want to re-consider the financial promises it holds. This is the major cause of an expanding BRICS and it is, as shown by the chart, a major cause for a continuing decline in gold promises.
A paper promise in the financial world can disappear with the stroke of a pen. As economic uncertainty grows so will the price of real assets.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong