You just use "Telling other people how to have fun" as an excuse to be extremely defensive whenever anyone talks badly about VB offerings.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
I vote bad for the hobby, at least on the shallower end of the pool. Coin Vault, the prolific Mint, and the increased use of credit and debit cards don't help either.
Simply not true. Find me a single quote where I ever told anyone to buy one or what a great deal it was or anything of the kind. I simply dislike people telling other people how to have fun.
In other words, you are telling other people what they should or not be doing with respect to criticizing a product that you say you don't care about one way or the other.
Simply not true. Find me a single quote where I ever told anyone to buy one or what a great deal it was or anything of the kind. I simply dislike people telling other people how to have fun.
In other words, you are telling other people what they should or not be doing with respect to criticizing a product, you don't care about one way or the other that they don't like.
I am perfectly fine with people not liking it. That is very different from telling other people that they should not like it or that they are stupid for playing. If you don't see the difference, you're not a smart as you think you are. I have never told anyone they should like it. I've asked that people simply tolerate it and the people that want to play.
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
You just use "Telling other people how to have fun" as an excuse to be extremely defensive whenever anyone talks badly about VB offerings.
Yes, I get defensive when people tell other people they are having fun wrong. So what? It's not an "excuse". It's an honest feeling.
@NeophyteNumismatist said:
Gambling is a hobby. I don't gamble, so VaultBox is not appealing to me. I am not saying that VaultBox collecting and traditional numismatics are the same thing. I am just saying that people should feel free to spend their money however they want in a legal, safe way. I am not going to throw a rock at anyone who buys VaultBox. I wish them the best of luck.
Key to your statement is 'safe'. I am not sure this is safe when one loses typically 50% or more of what you pay in and it is an immediate loss and nearly certain to happen. So I don't call that 'safe', but risky gambling. The appeal is there for some but high risk is certainly not safe IMO.
HST, gambling on a Cowboy SB win in 2025 would likely have better odds LOL.
And your state lottery would have worse odds...
My state lottery costs less than $5 to play and it is apparently to fund good causes. VB is to fill the pockets of vendors that can scam folks again. Not a good analogy, can you find a better one LOL?
@NeophyteNumismatist said:
Gambling is a hobby. I don't gamble, so VaultBox is not appealing to me. I am not saying that VaultBox collecting and traditional numismatics are the same thing. I am just saying that people should feel free to spend their money however they want in a legal, safe way. I am not going to throw a rock at anyone who buys VaultBox. I wish them the best of luck.
Key to your statement is 'safe'. I am not sure this is safe when one loses typically 50% or more of what you pay in and it is an immediate loss and nearly certain to happen. So I don't call that 'safe', but risky gambling. The appeal is there for some but high risk is certainly not safe IMO.
HST, gambling on a Cowboy SB win in 2025 would likely have better odds LOL.
Now you had to go and throw my beloved Cowboys into this lol. I don’t think that anyone is arguing that the most likely outcome of purchasing a Vaultbox is a loss of 50% or more of the purchase price but that by itself shouldn’t immediately allow something to be labeled “unsafe”.
Under that criteria alone, my home insurance policy is a unsafe purchase because pretty much every year I get back 0% of my cost. Granted this view ignores the fact that it lowers my pre-existing risk profile but it highlights that people are willing to enter into a standalone transaction that is both most likely to lose money and has an expected payout lower than the cost in order to avoid the downside of an extreme tail event.
If you take the converse of this, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that some people are also willing to enter into an expected money losing transaction to have a chance at experiencing the upside of an extreme event.
As others have mentioned before, the price for Vaultbox needs to be measured against probabilistic/expected value plus some amount of entertainment value. Although I doubt I would ever buy one myself, I do find it interesting and have no issues with the product (with the caveat that distribution and allocation is on the up and up) and if it brings in more people to the hobby then that’s a net benefit IMHO.
Nah, it is is a bet with very poor odds. Simple as that. And bc of gambling addition, the owners of VB are making alot more money on some so-so coins than they would if they sold them straight out for their retail prices, LOL. Yup, hype it folks, hype it, VB owners luv ya.
@NeophyteNumismatist said:
Gambling is a hobby. I don't gamble, so VaultBox is not appealing to me. I am not saying that VaultBox collecting and traditional numismatics are the same thing. I am just saying that people should feel free to spend their money however they want in a legal, safe way. I am not going to throw a rock at anyone who buys VaultBox. I wish them the best of luck.
Key to your statement is 'safe'. I am not sure this is safe when one loses typically 50% or more of what you pay in and it is an immediate loss and nearly certain to happen. So I don't call that 'safe', but risky gambling. The appeal is there for some but high risk is certainly not safe IMO.
HST, gambling on a Cowboy SB win in 2025 would likely have better odds LOL.
And your state lottery would have worse odds...
Yes, it certainly does. But, it has the virtue of being a voluntary tax that is used to fund items that benefit the public. The proceeds from VB benefit no one other the private interests behind it.
Lmao. So? Walmart doesn't sell bread out of a sense of civic virtue. And VB is every bit as voluntary as your beloved lottery.
And your state lottery takes most of its money (voluntarily) from the people who can last afford to give it up. 🙄 I know you're trying too hard when you are defending lotteries as charities.
Yikes, you will argue against anything it seems. Fact is lotto money does go for good causes. Fact. Should you pony up $5 to help that good cause by playing? That is another topic of discussion and totally unrelated to VB owners lining their pockets on an unregulated gambling scheme...............
It gets me into the "red hot" coin market with only a bit of risk. I can buy a raw coin which might be called genuine or buy a slabbed coin in which I fail to understand how that coin will be graded. In either case, I'm behind the curve. Now I can buy a VB coin box and I have the pro grading plus the liquidity that comes with being able to flip the coin to another member.
A gamble? sure. A loser? Most likely. Play the lottery and pay the giant vig, a loser? Sure. They don't pay out the true odds. Somebody wins.
I would possibly buy a VB , but my speculative money is currently tied up in the ponies. I lost $150 last year so I depleted my gambling capital for the year.
@NeophyteNumismatist said:
Gambling is a hobby. I don't gamble, so VaultBox is not appealing to me. I am not saying that VaultBox collecting and traditional numismatics are the same thing. I am just saying that people should feel free to spend their money however they want in a legal, safe way. I am not going to throw a rock at anyone who buys VaultBox. I wish them the best of luck.
Key to your statement is 'safe'. I am not sure this is safe when one loses typically 50% or more of what you pay in and it is an immediate loss and nearly certain to happen. So I don't call that 'safe', but risky gambling. The appeal is there for some but high risk is certainly not safe IMO.
HST, gambling on a Cowboy SB win in 2025 would likely have better odds LOL.
Now you had to go and throw my beloved Cowboys into this lol. I don’t think that anyone is arguing that the most likely outcome of purchasing a Vaultbox is a loss of 50% or more of the purchase price but that by itself shouldn’t immediately allow something to be labeled “unsafe”.
Under that criteria alone, my home insurance policy is a unsafe purchase because pretty much every year I get back 0% of my cost. Granted this view ignores the fact that it lowers my pre-existing risk profile but it highlights that people are willing to enter into a standalone transaction that is both most likely to lose money and has an expected payout lower than the cost in order to avoid the downside of an extreme tail event.
If you take the converse of this, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that some people are also willing to enter into an expected money losing transaction to have a chance at experiencing the upside of an extreme event.
As others have mentioned before, the price for Vaultbox needs to be measured against probabilistic/expected value plus some amount of entertainment value. Although I doubt I would ever buy one myself, I do find it interesting and have no issues with the product (with the caveat that distribution and allocation is on the up and up) and if it brings in more people to the hobby then that’s a net benefit IMHO.
Nah, it is is a bet with very poor odds. Simple as that. And bc of gambling addition, the owners of VB are making alot more money on some so-so coins than they would if they sold them straight out for their retail prices, LOL. Yup, hype it folks, hype it, VB owners luv ya.
Hype? I hardly think that Vaultbox wants a pitchman that says that they doubt they would ever buy the product themselves.🤷♂️
Are there only two camps of out and out loathing or fan boys?
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
You just use "Telling other people how to have fun" as an excuse to be extremely defensive whenever anyone talks badly about VB offerings.
Yes, I get defensive when people tell other people they are having fun wrong. So what? It's not an "excuse". It's an honest feeling.
Right. And others have "an honest feeling" that the product is utter hot garbage, and feel a need to express that. Apparently, you can express your "honest feelings," but have objections when others do the same. Now who's not as smart as they think they are?
@jeffas1974 said:
Are there only two camps of out and out loathing or fan boys?
I am neither. I am not a fan of VB, and would never buy it. I like buying classic coins and picking each coin myself. However, I am a fan of letting people spend their money however they want without ridicule.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
@NeophyteNumismatist said:
Gambling is a hobby. I don't gamble, so VaultBox is not appealing to me. I am not saying that VaultBox collecting and traditional numismatics are the same thing. I am just saying that people should feel free to spend their money however they want in a legal, safe way. I am not going to throw a rock at anyone who buys VaultBox. I wish them the best of luck.
Key to your statement is 'safe'. I am not sure this is safe when one loses typically 50% or more of what you pay in and it is an immediate loss and nearly certain to happen. So I don't call that 'safe', but risky gambling. The appeal is there for some but high risk is certainly not safe IMO.
HST, gambling on a Cowboy SB win in 2025 would likely have better odds LOL.
And your state lottery would have worse odds...
My state lottery costs less than $5 to play and it is apparently to fund good causes. VB is to fill the pockets of vendors that can scam folks again. Not a good analogy, can you find a better one LOL?
The analogy was strictly a question of odds. Jesus, is it that hard to understand?
Never has a 20 million to one longshot marketed to the very poorest people had so many defenders.
@RiveraFamilyCollect said:
You just use "Telling other people how to have fun" as an excuse to be extremely defensive whenever anyone talks badly about VB offerings.
Yes, I get defensive when people tell other people they are having fun wrong. So what? It'
@jeffas1974 said:
Are there only two camps of out and out loathing or fan boys?
I am neither. I am not a fan of VB, and would never buy it. I like buying classic coins and picking each coin myself. However, I am a fan of letting people spend their money however they want without ridicule.
My state lottery costs less than $5 to play and it is apparently to fund good causes. VB is to fill the pockets of vendors that can scam folks again. Not a good analogy, can you find a better one LOL?
The analogy was strictly a question of odds. Jesus, is it that hard to understand?
Never has a 20 million to one longshot marketed to the very poorest people had so many defenders.
Yep it is when you don't explain what you mean well enough. As a scientist, as a p chem teacher, shouldn't you know that being specific matters? So I recommend to you to be specific if you want your posts to be understood better. That is what I told all of my students in their writing and expected it - say what you mean, be specific.
HST, your analogy still does not work.
State lotto's are highly regulated, everyone has an equal chance, and you can have the fun you want for as little as a few dollars. Proceeds to to HELP good causes.
VB, some have more than an equal chance (this has been documented over and over), the cost of buying in is ≥$600 with mostly losing money, and it is not regulated despite being a gambling venture. Proceeds go to the fat cats that offer it.
My state lottery costs less than $5 to play and it is apparently to fund good causes. VB is to fill the pockets of vendors that can scam folks again. Not a good analogy, can you find a better one LOL?
The analogy was strictly a question of odds. Jesus, is it that hard to understand?
Never has a 20 million to one longshot marketed to the very poorest people had so many defenders.
Yep it is when you don't explain what you mean well enough. As a scientist, as a p chem teacher, shouldn't you know that being specific matters? So I recommend to you to be specific if you want your posts to be understood better. That is what I told all of my students in their writing and expected it - say what you mean, be specific.
HST, your analogy still does not work.
State lotto's are highly regulated, everyone has an equal chance, and you can have the fun you want for as little as a few dollars. Proceeds to to HELP good causes.
VB, some have more than an equal chance (this has been documented over and over), the cost of buying in is ≥$600 with mostly losing money, and it is not regulated despite being a gambling venture. Proceeds go to the fat cats that offer it.
NO COMPARISON
Lmfao.
My exact words were "and your state lottery would have worse odds". That is both very specific and very narrow. Also, irrefutable despite you and NJ trying to refute it.
The cheerleader keeps comparing lotteries, gambling and how it is fun (to lose money)
This is a COIN FORUM.
True Coin collectors buy coins for their collections knowing what they are buying and not super promoted mystery boxes. Just so bad for the hobby. And you promote it. Shame.
You’re misusing and abusing the word “cheerleader”.
And you would be so obviously wrong again.
Show just one example to back up your “Cheerleader at it again.” claim.
If you’re right, it should be easy. But I doubt you’ll even try, because you know you won’t be able to do it without distorting the word’s meaning.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You’re misusing and abusing the word “cheerleader”.
And you would be so obviously wrong again.
Show just one example to back up your “Cheerleader at it again.” claim.
If you’re right, it should be easy. But I doubt you’ll even try, because you know you won’t be able to do it without distorting the word’s meaning.
Obviously you do not pay any attention to the cheerleaders posts.
So freaking obvious that the cheerleader is promoted this garbage,
You’re misusing and abusing the word “cheerleader”.
And you would be so obviously wrong again.
Show just one example to back up your “Cheerleader at it again.” claim.
If you’re right, it should be easy. But I doubt you’ll even try, because you know you won’t be able to do it without distorting the word’s meaning.
Obviously you do not pay any attention to the cheerleaders posts.
So freaking obvious that the cheerleader is promoted this garbage,
How many times does he post defending VB as "fun"
Gimme a break Field ....
Cheerleader: “a person who leads a crowd in formal cheers, esp at sports events 2. a vocal supporter of a particular cause..”
A person who supports the choices of others to do as they please, (even when he wouldn’t do the same) isn’t a cheerleader,
Give me a break, Errorrrr….
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You’re misusing and abusing the word “cheerleader”.
And you would be so obviously wrong again.
Show just one example to back up your “Cheerleader at it again.” claim.
If you’re right, it should be easy. But I doubt you’ll even try, because you know you won’t be able to do it without distorting the word’s meaning.
Obviously you do not pay any attention to the cheerleaders posts.
So freaking obvious that the cheerleader is promoted this garbage,
How many times does he post defending VB as "fun"
Gimme a break Field ....
@jmlanzaf doesn't need me to defend him...but this is a Cougar-level astoundingly low reading comprehension.
You’re misusing and abusing the word “cheerleader”.
And you would be so obviously wrong again.
Show just one example to back up your “Cheerleader at it again.” claim.
If you’re right, it should be easy. But I doubt you’ll even try, because you know you won’t be able to do it without distorting the word’s meaning.
Obviously you do not pay any attention to the cheerleaders posts.
So freaking obvious that the cheerleader is promoted this garbage,
How many times does he post defending VB as "fun"
Gimme a break Field ....
That's Mr. Feld to you.
The people that buy them DO find it fun. Why else do you think they do it? Lottery players and casino gamblers also find it fun. That's an observation not advocacy.
Go watch the card breaks and mystery boxes on YouTube or WhatNot. Why do you think those people are in the room buying boxes? Are they being forced to endure it to ransom their children?
And people who find it fun should be allowed to have fun. Why is that position so controversial? Because you don't find it fun?
You’re misusing and abusing the word “cheerleader”.
And you would be so obviously wrong again.
Show just one example to back up your “Cheerleader at it again.” claim.
If you’re right, it should be easy. But I doubt you’ll even try, because you know you won’t be able to do it without distorting the word’s meaning.
Obviously you do not pay any attention to the cheerleaders posts.
So freaking obvious that the cheerleader is promoted this garbage,
How many times does he post defending VB as "fun"
Gimme a break Field ....
Cheerleader: “a person who leads a crowd in formal cheers, esp at sports events 2. a vocal supporter of a particular cause..”
A person who supports the choices of others to do as they please, (even when he wouldn’t do the same) isn’t a cheerleader,
Give me a break, Errorrrr….
OMG
LMAO
You are truly clueless.
Everyone here knows he is cheerleading.
You talk about a real sports team cheerleader as being the only definition.
Words have many meanings and you now are becoming close to becoming a cheerleader in my mind, pathetic.
You’re misusing and abusing the word “cheerleader”.
And you would be so obviously wrong again.
Show just one example to back up your “Cheerleader at it again.” claim.
If you’re right, it should be easy. But I doubt you’ll even try, because you know you won’t be able to do it without distorting the word’s meaning.
Obviously you do not pay any attention to the cheerleaders posts.
So freaking obvious that the cheerleader is promoted this garbage,
How many times does he post defending VB as "fun"
Gimme a break Field ....
That's Mr. Feld to you.
The people that buy them DO find it fun. Why else do you think they do it? Lottery players and casino gamblers also find it fun. That's an observation not advocacy.
Go watch the card breaks and mystery boxes on YouTube or WhatNot. Why do you think those people are in the room buying boxes? Are they being forced to endure it to ransom their children?
And people who find it fun should be allowed to have fun. Why is that position so controversial? Because you don't find it fun?
There you go using the “F” (fun) word again. And clearly, pointing out that someone is having fun makes you guilty of advocating and cheerleading for the activity.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You’re misusing and abusing the word “cheerleader”.
And you would be so obviously wrong again.
Show just one example to back up your “Cheerleader at it again.” claim.
If you’re right, it should be easy. But I doubt you’ll even try, because you know you won’t be able to do it without distorting the word’s meaning.
Obviously you do not pay any attention to the cheerleaders posts.
So freaking obvious that the cheerleader is promoted this garbage,
How many times does he post defending VB as "fun"
Gimme a break Field ....
That's Mr. Feld to you.
The people that buy them DO find it fun. Why else do you think they do it? Lottery players and casino gamblers also find it fun. That's an observation not advocacy.
Go watch the card breaks and mystery boxes on YouTube or WhatNot. Why do you think those people are in the room buying boxes? Are they being forced to endure it to ransom their children?
And people who find it fun should be allowed to have fun. Why is that position so controversial? Because you don't find it fun?
There you go using the “F” (fun) word again. And clearly, pointing out that someone is having fun makes you guilty of advocating and cheerleading for the activity.😉
Lol. I'm just going to lean into it. What does it matter?
Personally, I'm astounded by how many people like box breaks and the like. I was watching a card break on whatnot. Their rules require you to post max and min values and the specific prizes. This particular break had a $25 minimum value and a $500 max value with 8/50 odds of the $500 (retail value). People bid over $300 to play. And they sold them all in 20 minutes.
I found the whole event interesting. I had no interest in playing. Almost everyone ended up a loser. But they had fun and probably came back the next time. I just don't have it in me to tell them they are having fun wrong.
I've long had this argument with stamp guys. Kids love labels. I said, "give them cheap used stamps and a glue stick". The old timers say that would teach them the wrong way to collect. Then they wonder why there are so few new collectors.
No one here has EVER said that VB or UltraBreaks were anything other than gambling. No one has suggested other than most people lose money. What someone else does is their business... at least for ME. If that is cheerleading, I'm going to get out my pom poms.
You’re misusing and abusing the word “cheerleader”.
And you would be so obviously wrong again.
Show just one example to back up your “Cheerleader at it again.” claim.
If you’re right, it should be easy. But I doubt you’ll even try, because you know you won’t be able to do it without distorting the word’s meaning.
Obviously you do not pay any attention to the cheerleaders posts.
So freaking obvious that the cheerleader is promoted this garbage,
How many times does he post defending VB as "fun"
Gimme a break Field ....
Cheerleader: “a person who leads a crowd in formal cheers, esp at sports events 2. a vocal supporter of a particular cause..”
A person who supports the choices of others to do as they please, (even when he wouldn’t do the same) isn’t a cheerleader,
Give me a break, Errorrrr….
OMG
LMAO
You are truly clueless.
Everyone here knows he is cheerleading.
You talk about a real sports team cheerleader as being the only definition.
Words have many meanings and you now are becoming close to becoming a cheerleader in my mind, pathetic.
Either you didn’t read all of the definition I posted or you didn’t comprehend it. Because it included:
“2. a vocal supporter of a particular cause..”
Maybe those seven extra words were too much for you to handle. Either way, even though you won’t acknowledge it, I’ve made my point. And I didn't even have to resort to an “OMG”, “LMAO”, “pathetic” or “sad” to do so.
Have a fun day.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
My state lottery costs less than $5 to play and it is apparently to fund good causes. VB is to fill the pockets of vendors that can scam folks again. Not a good analogy, can you find a better one LOL?
The analogy was strictly a question of odds. Jesus, is it that hard to understand?
Never has a 20 million to one longshot marketed to the very poorest people had so many defenders.
Yep it is when you don't explain what you mean well enough. As a scientist, as a p chem teacher, shouldn't you know that being specific matters? So I recommend to you to be specific if you want your posts to be understood better. That is what I told all of my students in their writing and expected it - say what you mean, be specific.
HST, your analogy still does not work.
State lotto's are highly regulated, everyone has an equal chance, and you can have the fun you want for as little as a few dollars. Proceeds to to HELP good causes.
VB, some have more than an equal chance (this has been documented over and over), the cost of buying in is ≥$600 with mostly losing money, and it is not regulated despite being a gambling venture. Proceeds go to the fat cats that offer it.
NO COMPARISON
VB is not for me but I enjoy watching others having fun with it.
That said, where has it been documented “over and over” that “some have more than an equal chance”? I saw one potential example during the first release where an influencer opened a red core prior to release - which VB explained subsequently. I’ve seen no other instances that would indicate that the prizes are not random.
It’s a serious accusation and I think evidence should be provided.
Frankly, the unsubstantiated accusations against various companies on this forum lately have become tiresome. Accusations need to be supported with evidence.
There are posters on this forum that have high post counts and or high profiles that YN's may listen to.
Sometimes these posters give out horrible information that YN's may follow.
That’s true and the same goes for some of the bad language that’s posted here from time to time. And spelling it “effing” doesn’t make it much better.
You are equating horrible information and bad language.
Horrible information may hurt someone financially.
Cursing may offend someone personally.
How are the 2 equal?
I’m not equating them. Each might be followed and result in negative consequences, financial or otherwise.
You use the word "same"
You seem to like the dictionary ... here, I will school you ...
................
sām
Synonyms of same
1
a
resembling in every relevant respect
b
conforming in every respect —used with as
2
a
being one without addition, change, or discontinuance : IDENTICAL
b
being the one under discussion or already referred to
3
corresponding so closely as to be indistinguishable
4
equal in size, shape, value, or importance —usually used with the or a demonstrative (such as that, those) in all senses
same
2 of 3
pronoun
1
something identical with or similar to another
2
something or someone previously mentioned or described —often used with the or a demonstrative (such as that, those) in both senses
same
3 of 3
adverb
in the same manner —used with the or a demonstrative (such as that, those)
You were generous in attempting to “school” me, but I’ll take my chances without it.
“Same” as in “YN’s may follow”.
Oh, in case you didn’t see my reply to your statement “You talk about a real sports team cheerleader as being the only definition” I’ve copied it below for you. But if you did see it, considering how it must have been rather embarrassing for you, I can understand why you didn’t acknowledge it.
You talk about a real sports team cheerleader as being the only definition.
Words have many meanings and you now are becoming close to becoming a cheerleader in my mind, pathetic.
Either you didn’t read all of the definition I posted or you didn’t comprehend it. Because it included:
“2. a vocal supporter of a particular cause..”
Maybe those seven extra words were too much for you to handle. Either way, even though you won’t acknowledge it, I’ve made my point. And I didn't even have to resort to an “OMG”, “LMAO”, “pathetic” or “sad” to do so.”
You get the last word in this exchange. Have fun with it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
You just use "Telling other people how to have fun" as an excuse to be extremely defensive whenever anyone talks badly about VB offerings.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
I vote bad for the hobby, at least on the shallower end of the pool. Coin Vault, the prolific Mint, and the increased use of credit and debit cards don't help either.
In other words, you are telling other people what they should or not be doing with respect to criticizing a product that you say you don't care about one way or the other.
I am perfectly fine with people not liking it. That is very different from telling other people that they should not like it or that they are stupid for playing. If you don't see the difference, you're not a smart as you think you are. I have never told anyone they should like it. I've asked that people simply tolerate it and the people that want to play.
[It is, of course, a hopeless request. ]
Yes, I get defensive when people tell other people they are having fun wrong. So what? It's not an "excuse". It's an honest feeling.
This thread is deja vu all over again.
My state lottery costs less than $5 to play and it is apparently to fund good causes. VB is to fill the pockets of vendors that can scam folks again. Not a good analogy, can you find a better one LOL?
Nah, it is is a bet with very poor odds. Simple as that. And bc of gambling addition, the owners of VB are making alot more money on some so-so coins than they would if they sold them straight out for their retail prices, LOL. Yup, hype it folks, hype it, VB owners luv ya.
Yikes, you will argue against anything it seems. Fact is lotto money does go for good causes. Fact. Should you pony up $5 to help that good cause by playing? That is another topic of discussion and totally unrelated to VB owners lining their pockets on an unregulated gambling scheme...............
And it seems, all of my posts have already been said by NJ, but it is worth repeating..........
VB ...
It gets me into the "red hot" coin market with only a bit of risk. I can buy a raw coin which might be called genuine or buy a slabbed coin in which I fail to understand how that coin will be graded. In either case, I'm behind the curve. Now I can buy a VB coin box and I have the pro grading plus the liquidity that comes with being able to flip the coin to another member.
A gamble? sure. A loser? Most likely. Play the lottery and pay the giant vig, a loser? Sure. They don't pay out the true odds. Somebody wins.
I would possibly buy a VB , but my speculative money is currently tied up in the ponies. I lost $150 last year so I depleted my gambling capital for the year.
Hype? I hardly think that Vaultbox wants a pitchman that says that they doubt they would ever buy the product themselves.🤷♂️
Are there only two camps of out and out loathing or fan boys?
Right. And others have "an honest feeling" that the product is utter hot garbage, and feel a need to express that. Apparently, you can express your "honest feelings," but have objections when others do the same. Now who's not as smart as they think they are?
”Look, I’m an older guy in his 50s ”
On this forum 50s qualifies you as a spring chicken
….unless you mean that you were born in the 50s
I am neither. I am not a fan of VB, and would never buy it. I like buying classic coins and picking each coin myself. However, I am a fan of letting people spend their money however they want without ridicule.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
The analogy was strictly a question of odds. Jesus, is it that hard to understand?
Never has a 20 million to one longshot marketed to the very poorest people had so many defenders.
,,.....
I am told that makes you a cheerleader.
Coming soon, the super popular..............
I feel like it was my request they heard. Lol
Yep it is when you don't explain what you mean well enough. As a scientist, as a p chem teacher, shouldn't you know that being specific matters? So I recommend to you to be specific if you want your posts to be understood better. That is what I told all of my students in their writing and expected it - say what you mean, be specific.
HST, your analogy still does not work.
State lotto's are highly regulated, everyone has an equal chance, and you can have the fun you want for as little as a few dollars. Proceeds to to HELP good causes.
VB, some have more than an equal chance (this has been documented over and over), the cost of buying in is ≥$600 with mostly losing money, and it is not regulated despite being a gambling venture. Proceeds go to the fat cats that offer it.
NO COMPARISON
Cheerleader at it again.
Uneffingbelievable, pathetic and sad.
You’re misusing and abusing the word “cheerleader”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
And you would be so obviously wrong again.
Lmfao.
My exact words were "and your state lottery would have worse odds". That is both very specific and very narrow. Also, irrefutable despite you and NJ trying to refute it.
The cheerleader keeps comparing lotteries, gambling and how it is fun (to lose money)
This is a COIN FORUM.
True Coin collectors buy coins for their collections knowing what they are buying and not super promoted mystery boxes. Just so bad for the hobby. And you promote it. Shame.
Show just one example to back up your “Cheerleader at it again.” claim.
If you’re right, it should be easy. But I doubt you’ll even try, because you know you won’t be able to do it without distorting the word’s meaning.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Obviously you do not pay any attention to the cheerleaders posts.
So freaking obvious that the cheerleader is promoted this garbage,
How many times does he post defending VB as "fun"
Gimme a break Field ....
Cheerleader: “a person who leads a crowd in formal cheers, esp at sports events 2. a vocal supporter of a particular cause..”
A person who supports the choices of others to do as they please, (even when he wouldn’t do the same) isn’t a cheerleader,
Give me a break, Errorrrr….
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@jmlanzaf doesn't need me to defend him...but this is a Cougar-level astoundingly low reading comprehension.
EDIT:
0
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
That's Mr. Feld to you.
The people that buy them DO find it fun. Why else do you think they do it? Lottery players and casino gamblers also find it fun. That's an observation not advocacy.
Go watch the card breaks and mystery boxes on YouTube or WhatNot. Why do you think those people are in the room buying boxes? Are they being forced to endure it to ransom their children?
And people who find it fun should be allowed to have fun. Why is that position so controversial? Because you don't find it fun?
OMG
LMAO
You are truly clueless.
Everyone here knows he is cheerleading.
You talk about a real sports team cheerleader as being the only definition.
Words have many meanings and you now are becoming close to becoming a cheerleader in my mind, pathetic.
There you go using the “F” (fun) word again. And clearly, pointing out that someone is having fun makes you guilty of advocating and cheerleading for the activity.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Lol. I'm just going to lean into it. What does it matter?
Personally, I'm astounded by how many people like box breaks and the like. I was watching a card break on whatnot. Their rules require you to post max and min values and the specific prizes. This particular break had a $25 minimum value and a $500 max value with 8/50 odds of the $500 (retail value). People bid over $300 to play. And they sold them all in 20 minutes.
I found the whole event interesting. I had no interest in playing. Almost everyone ended up a loser. But they had fun and probably came back the next time. I just don't have it in me to tell them they are having fun wrong.
I've long had this argument with stamp guys. Kids love labels. I said, "give them cheap used stamps and a glue stick". The old timers say that would teach them the wrong way to collect. Then they wonder why there are so few new collectors.
No one here has EVER said that VB or UltraBreaks were anything other than gambling. No one has suggested other than most people lose money. What someone else does is their business... at least for ME. If that is cheerleading, I'm going to get out my pom poms.
Either you didn’t read all of the definition I posted or you didn’t comprehend it. Because it included:
“2. a vocal supporter of a particular cause..”
Maybe those seven extra words were too much for you to handle. Either way, even though you won’t acknowledge it, I’ve made my point. And I didn't even have to resort to an “OMG”, “LMAO”, “pathetic” or “sad” to do so.
Have a fun day.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Why gamble?
Just buy low sell high.
VB is not for me but I enjoy watching others having fun with it.
That said, where has it been documented “over and over” that “some have more than an equal chance”? I saw one potential example during the first release where an influencer opened a red core prior to release - which VB explained subsequently. I’ve seen no other instances that would indicate that the prizes are not random.
It’s a serious accusation and I think evidence should be provided.
Frankly, the unsubstantiated accusations against various companies on this forum lately have become tiresome. Accusations need to be supported with evidence.
Here is the thing that gets me.
There are posters on this forum that have high post counts and or high profiles that YN's may listen to.
Sometimes these posters give out horrible information that YN's may follow.
That’s true and the same goes for some of the bad language that’s posted here from time to time. And spelling it “effing” doesn’t make it much better.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You are equating horrible information and bad language.
Horrible information may hurt someone financially.
Cursing may offend someone personally.
How are the 2 equal?
Cursing ...
https://cnn.com/2021/01/26/health/swearing-benefits-wellness/index.html
I’m not equating them. Each might be followed and result in negative consequences, financial or otherwise.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You use the word "same"
You seem to like the dictionary ... here, I will school you ...
................
b
2
a
b
3
4
same
2 of 3
pronoun
1
2
same
3 of 3
adverb
Perhaps you should recommend to the moderators here that cursing would be a good thing to allow here. It sounds like you’re a cheerleader for it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thank God I haven't issued any horrible information.
All true.
Dude ...
I hang out with extremely "salty" fisherman that catch fish
I do not work in an office, I am my own boss.
I am honest and cursing when appropriate is very honest.
I love funny movies and most use a large amount of curse words that crack me up.
My wife will not watch any of my extremely funny ass movies because of language
You were generous in attempting to “school” me, but I’ll take my chances without it.
“Same” as in “YN’s may follow”.
Oh, in case you didn’t see my reply to your statement “You talk about a real sports team cheerleader as being the only definition” I’ve copied it below for you. But if you did see it, considering how it must have been rather embarrassing for you, I can understand why you didn’t acknowledge it.
“LMAO
You are truly clueless.
Everyone here knows he is cheerleading.
You talk about a real sports team cheerleader as being the only definition.
Words have many meanings and you now are becoming close to becoming a cheerleader in my mind, pathetic.
Either you didn’t read all of the definition I posted or you didn’t comprehend it. Because it included:
“2. a vocal supporter of a particular cause..”
Maybe those seven extra words were too much for you to handle. Either way, even though you won’t acknowledge it, I’ve made my point. And I didn't even have to resort to an “OMG”, “LMAO”, “pathetic” or “sad” to do so.”
You get the last word in this exchange. Have fun with it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.