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Vault Box is a success - like it or not

Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭✭✭

They sell out, YouTube full of “reveal” coin videos that are getting tons of attention. Look, I’m an older guy in his 50s but the younger collectors are all over this - why wouldn’t that be good for the hobby in general….?

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  • Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh - and happy Friday!

  • Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think WQuarterFreddy represents the younger collectors I am referring to - maybe we should listen to him

  • RiveraFamilyCollectRiveraFamilyCollect Posts: 308 ✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2024 8:55AM

    I don't think VB has a negative effect on the hobby. Like Che_Grapes said they always sell out, have resale on ebay and unboxing videos on YouTube. The VB people get very excited around releases. The product is more for whales than anybody else. Essentially the only people harmed are the purchasers of VB and they agree to be scammed. You could argue all the hype dupes foolish consumers but a fool and their money already have a reputation.
    Plenty of markets are blatantly scams anyway, that whole premium video game craze was totally artificial.

    I won't buy one, can't justify the gamble and low upside on a win anyway.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,302 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i dont see this vault box thingy to end anytime soon :'(

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You take a risk every time you send raw coins in to be slabbed

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @johnny9434 said:
    i dont see this vault box thingy to end anytime soon :'(

    Unless some government agency decides they do not like something with the operation

  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Okay, my first Vault Box® Thread Comment....

    what did I miss?

    It's all about what the people want...

  • tincuptincup Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LukeMarshall said:
    Okay, my first Vault Box® Thread Comment....

    what did I miss?

    Nothing. Everyone just waiting for the fight to start once again. lol.....

    ----- kj
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Vault Box is like trading card box breaks. It is worth noting that they are controversial in the trading card hobby as well.

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2024 11:42AM

    @Che_Grapes said:
    They sell out, YouTube full of “reveal” coin videos that are getting tons of attention. Look, I’m an older guy in his 50s but the younger collectors are all over this - why wouldn’t that be good for the hobby in general….?

    The same reason overpriced crap sold on TV is not "good for the hobby in general." I have no problem with people doing whatever they want with their money, assuming there is full disclosure with respect to what they are buying. At this point, i think VB fits into this category, so people should absolutely feel free to enjoy themselves.

    With respect to VB being a success, I think the results speak for themselves, at least to date. As far as "good for the hobby in general," I respectfully disagree.

    Sure, a certain segment of the population are masochists who enjoy being abused, so this caters to them. It serves degenerate gamblers as well.

    But, in general, no, people not receiving fair value for their money tend to get turned off long term. Whether it's $129 bullion on HSN or $1249 box breaks on Whatnot. Good for the hucksters, who can always move on to the next thing, not so great for the marks.

    How is the secondary market for sold out, limited edition colorized and electroplated in genuine 24K gold and platinum state quarters doing? Not so good, but that does not stop HSN from hosting Magic Mike several times per year, because the money keep flowing.

    After the 30 day no questions asked return period expires, it does not end well for the customer. But PT Barnum was a genius, and there are always more fools with money burning holes in their pockets. Screwing people is good, in general, for the people doing the screwing. Not so much for the hobby.

    The next big thing is apparently rare 0.2 oz PR70 FDOI Coke bottle caps in a genuine Unvaulted VB slab for the irresistibly low low price of $75. Because why get an ounce of collector silver from the US Mint for that price when you can get 1/5 as much, graded in a PERFECT PROOF 70, in a limited edition VB slab? Grab a few directly from your good friends at VB before they also sell out. Great for the hobby, in general. 😂

  • olympicsosolympicsos Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭

    As much as the mint gets bashed sometimes on these forums, I think its the mint that can do a much better job than vaultbox, littleton or any tv show to bring in new collectors. There's so much marketing potential in an entity that's probably the most accountable coin dealer there is out there which can bring in new hobbyists.

  • hfjacintohfjacinto Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2024 7:42PM

    @hfjacinto said:
    Hey Niue has nice coins...

    They sure do. Most, if not all, of their stuff is made by the Perth Mint, which is first class all the way.

    That said, $75 for 6 grams of silver fabricated to look like a Coke bottle top is steep, even graded 70, even with a VB slab. The only thing that could be worse would be finding it as one of 3 coins in a $1200 mystery box.

  • @Manifest_Destiny said:
    I'm saving my hate for Niue - population 1681


    Like pickle rick colorized bullion?

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A great addition to the hobby. Its interesting how people bash this but are ok with mint sets and proof sets from the mint. Most of those are big money losers.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,050 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2024 3:46PM

    Yes, it has been a success. Hundreds of collectors have lost tens of thousands of dollars in this scheme. Bernie Madoff and Kenny Lay would be amused.

  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Che_Grapes said:
    They sell out, YouTube full of “reveal” coin videos that are getting tons of attention. Look, I’m an older guy in his 50s but the younger collectors are all over this - why wouldn’t that be good for the hobby in general….?

    Absolutely a success, for VaultBox.............


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2024 7:22PM

    @pcgscacgold said:
    A great addition to the hobby. Its interesting how people bash this but are ok with mint sets and proof sets from the mint. Most of those are big money losers.

    But do proof sets cost $1200? Laying down what $50 for a proof set (or whatever they cost) is different than this IMO. Hard to lose big money on $50? That is the cost of a Shepherd's pie and a pint on Youngs double chocolate stout at a pub these days.............


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,475 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't have a problem with Vaultbox but if I'm going to gamble I would rather go to a casino. ;)

  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    I don't have a problem with Vaultbox but if I'm going to gamble I would rather go to a casino. ;)

    Or play the stock market at $1200.....................


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's just gambling and as long as you are not betting money you can't afford to lose, I see no down side. If you are involved for your plans for the hobby, then not so good for you.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,748 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lest we forget;
    It doesn’t matter if they talk good about it or talk bad about it, so long as they talk about it.
    Promote fortune cookie.

  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jesbroken said:
    It's just gambling and as long as you are not betting money you can't afford to lose, I see no down side. If you are involved for your plans for the hobby, then not so good for you.
    Jim

    Except that it appears that the non-influencers who play seem to have far less chances at a big score than the house claims............


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
  • Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pcgscacgold said:
    A great addition to the hobby. Its interesting how people bash this but are ok with mint sets and proof sets from the mint. Most of those are big money losers.

    Ha ha fair enough—

    @spacehayduke said:

    But do proof sets cost $1200? Laying down what $50 for a proof set (or whatever they cost) is different than this IMO. Hard to lose big money on $50? That is the cost of a Shepherd's pie and a pint on Youngs double chocolate stout at a pub these days.............

    This fine gentleman clearly has not purchased recently from the US Mint - 50 dollars? The ASE are 80 nowadays and the gold proofs can easily EASILY exceed 1200 and yes it’s gold but you’re paying some ~50% over spot! Anyway love these comments - y’all have made my morning … super good points made regarding vault box..📦

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Che_Grapes said:

    @pcgscacgold said:
    A great addition to the hobby. Its interesting how people bash this but are ok with mint sets and proof sets from the mint. Most of those are big money losers.

    Ha ha fair enough—

    @spacehayduke said:

    But do proof sets cost $1200? Laying down what $50 for a proof set (or whatever they cost) is different than this IMO. Hard to lose big money on $50? That is the cost of a Shepherd's pie and a pint on Youngs double chocolate stout at a pub these days.............

    This fine gentleman clearly has not purchased recently from the US Mint - 50 dollars? The ASE are 80 nowadays and the gold proofs can easily EASILY exceed 1200 and yes it’s gold but you’re paying some ~50% over spot! Anyway love these comments - y’all have made my morning … super good points made regarding vault box..📦

    Yes. You've got an $800 or $900 proof premium on the 1 oz gold.

  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Yes. You've got an $800 or $900 proof premium on the 1 oz gold.

    Ouch, whoda thought? I guess that is why I have never bought from the US Mint...........


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
  • fathomfathom Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    US Mint makes 14 cents on every quarter it produces "sells" us.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It amazes me the mint is as successful as it is.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jesbroken said:
    It amazes me the mint is as successful as it is.
    Jim

    They have a monopoly on circulation coinage.

  • hfjacintohfjacinto Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Personally I think Vault Box is a money losing proposition but it’s not my money. I spent money on 3 vacations last year that I’ll never see back. My vacation is someone’s vault box.

  • Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fathom said:
    US Mint makes 14 cents on every quarter it produces "sells" us.

    But that covers the production - fhey aren’t made for free

  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have a feeling Vaultbox 5 jumped the shark. Price was too high. Watching the big timers on Whatnot trying to sell off boxes one coin at a time in mystery games to get out from under them.
    Opening night the vast majority of boxes I saw were barely beating issue price. They need to go back to cheaper boxes, and maybe raise the floor a little otherwise I’m seeing them go the way of the dodo.

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,475 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I stopped by a show recently and a couple of dealers had Vaultbox slabs in their case for sale.
    I have not followed pricing on them but I was surprised at the asking prices.
    They were priced like a rattler or better! :o
    Some people must be buying them for the plastic because the coins I saw in them were common coins.
    I didn't see anyone buy one so the dealers may still have them in their case a year from now.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Che_Grapes said:

    @fathom said:
    US Mint makes 14 cents on every quarter it produces "sells" us.

    But that covers the production - fhey aren’t made for free

    25 cents - 11 cents production = 14 cents profit

    It's called seigniorage

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,050 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anyone care to calculate profit using real coin values (e.g. Greysheet) instead of inflated price guide value?

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,050 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    I stopped by a show recently and a couple of dealers had Vaultbox slabs in their case for sale.
    I have not followed pricing on them but I was surprised at the asking prices.
    They were priced like a rattler or better! :o
    Some people must be buying them for the plastic because the coins I saw in them were common coins.
    I didn't see anyone buy one so the dealers may still have them in their case a year from now.

    Or the prices are inflated to mitigate losses to at least some degree.

  • TurboSnailTurboSnail Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So this is the legendary Fountain of Youth(vault box)

  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    👆 No wonder ngcpcgs have been snapped up by corporate.
    When you sit at the table and don't see who the mark is, it's you.

  • 3stars3stars Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @hfjacinto said:
    Personally I think Vault Box is a money losing proposition but it’s not my money. I spent money on 3 vacations last year that I’ll never see back. My vacation is someone’s vault box.

    and unlike a vacation, vaultbox purchases have at least some residual value left over, so not a 100% loss. I like gambling, but prefer a softer house edge.

    Previous transactions: Wondercoin, goldman86, dmarks, Type2
  • If one buys enough Vaultboxes do they at least get comped to the buffet? P, T. Barum was so right!

  • CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,246 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, the scam is not a success with me. If I want to gamble, I think I get better odds in the lottery or the local casino.

    How is success measured? Only by the sellouts? What a crock.

    And that is all I have ever contributed on this topic and will not be back.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

  • lermishlermish Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cameonut said:
    Well, the scam is not a success with me. If I want to gamble, I think I get better odds in the lottery or the local casino.

    I have no problem with the first part but the "better odds in the lottery" is absurd.

    1 in 6 people get a red core. Those who don't get some value back. Using @ElKevvo 's math above, the expected return for all VB purchasers is 71 cents on the dollar. Few will profit, even fewer will make a big profit. And yes, blackjack or roulette and even slots are better odds (although some of the "side bets" can start to approach the low odds).

    But when the Powerball was at a $2 billion jackpot the expected return was 16 cents on the dollar. And MUCH less with a smaller prize pool.

  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They are over valued coins without a CAC sticker. Just saying. :D

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @3stars said:

    @hfjacinto said:
    Personally I think Vault Box is a money losing proposition but it’s not my money. I spent money on 3 vacations last year that I’ll never see back. My vacation is someone’s vault box.

    and unlike a vacation, vaultbox purchases have at least some residual value left over, so not a 100% loss. I like gambling, but prefer a softer house edge.

    I guess, if you consider living life and having experiences a "100% loss."

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