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Did CAC Miss The Mark On This Coin? I Am Puzzled

WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 663 ✭✭✭✭
edited January 14, 2024 3:36PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Seems to me like CAC maybe should not have stickered this coin as it has too much negative eye appeal. The surface quality is very poor Our esteemed member Manifest Destiny even opined that the coin “looked crapped upon”. What’s your take on this. BTW I collect only CAC and like their grading services.



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Comments

  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:
    I’d say it’s far more likely to be a bad picture than CAC’s error.

    There are coins that CAC makes mistakes on but this is unlikely to the one of those types of mistakes.

    I agree, pcgs made the original mistake of 65.

  • RelaxnRelaxn Posts: 841 ✭✭✭✭

    Coin in hand has great luster and the toning is vibrant... The image posted is very muted. The coin is a nice coin.

  • mikee999mikee999 Posts: 336 ✭✭✭✭

    It’s a case of blind leading the “blinder.”

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It probably didn't look like that before. Most likely it was stored improperly and turned ugly in the holder after it was graded and stickered.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 663 ✭✭✭✭

    @Relaxn said:
    Coin in hand has great luster and the toning is vibrant... The image posted is very muted. The coin is a nice coin.

    Your coin? If so there is still a lot of surfaces blemishes, not questioning the luster.

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This thread was not started by the OP in good faith, IMO. The question isn't serious; the OP just has a petty grudge against @Manifest_Destiny and wanted to put him on the spot.

    I'll repeat my advice to the OP from his last thread: It's time for him to change his attitude, take responsibility for wasting people's time, and make a good faith effort to refrain from doing so in the future.

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 663 ✭✭✭✭

    @IkesT said:
    This thread was not started by the OP in good faith, IMO. The question isn't serious; the OP just has a petty grudge against @Manifest_Destiny and wanted to put him on the spot.

    I'll repeat my advice to the OP from his last thread: It's time for him to change his attitude, take responsibility for wasting people's time, and make a good faith effort to refrain from doing so in the future.

    Not true I accidentally posted this photo on the other thread which Manifest destiny commented on. I took the photo to start this thread and posted his comment as he obsessively finds every single comment I made in my threads to make me look bad. So fair game. He always is out to criticize and demean me, he has the obsession with me and the grudge. This was posted legitimately for discussion, that’s why I had the photos in my library

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This coin belongs to Bob Paul Rare Coins and is currently listed for sale on eBay.

    You swore up and down on your last thread that you would never post another coin on the Forum before buying and receiving it. Is there any promise that you've ever kept?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/155892890026

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @IkesT said:
    This coin belongs to Bob Paul Rare Coins and is currently listed for sale on eBay.

    You swore up and down on your last thread that you would never post another coin on the Forum before buying and receiving it. Is there any promise that you've ever kept?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/155892890026

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks good to me. He has it listed on his website. bobpaulrarecoins.com/513464-1934-50c#

  • silviosisilviosi Posts: 444 ✭✭✭

    I think this post must have the title like this: "Do is worth 600$ for this coin??!!"

    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 663 ✭✭✭✭

    @IkesT said:
    This coin belongs to Bob Paul Rare Coins and is currently listed for sale on eBay.

    You swore up and down on your last thread that you would never post another coin on the Forum before buying and receiving it. Is there any promise that you've ever kept?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/155892890026

    I am not considering purchasing it. Anyone can comment generally on coins for sale in various venues. I said specifically I would not ask for information on a coin to receive advice information that I was interested in. I posted this for educational purposes only to see if forum members thought this coin was CAC material.

  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Perhaps this post is beneficial in the fact that I’ve never bought a coin from Bob Paul Rare Coins, but isn’t this coin correctly valued ~$300? If his style is to sell unattractively toned coins at a 50%+ premium, it will save me time in the future by ignoring his inventory. Thank you walkerlover

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 663 ✭✭✭✭

    @1madman said:
    Perhaps this post is beneficial in the fact that I’ve never bought a coin from Bob Paul Rare Coins, but isn’t this coin correctly valued ~$300? If his style is to sell unattractively toned coins at a 50%+ premium, it will save me time in the future by ignoring his inventory. Thank you walkerlover

    I left out the name of the seller to protect his privacy. Not necessary for the purpose of this discussion

  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not even close to the ugliest CAC coin I’ve seen. But I bet it’s nicer in have than the photos seem. But I don’t believe CAC generally puts eye appeal over technical grade.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerlover said:

    @IkesT said:
    This coin belongs to Bob Paul Rare Coins and is currently listed for sale on eBay.

    You swore up and down on your last thread that you would never post another coin on the Forum before buying and receiving it. Is there any promise that you've ever kept?

    I am not considering purchasing it. Anyone can comment generally on coins for sale in various venues. I said specifically I would not ask for information on a coin to receive advice information that I was interested in. I posted this for educational purposes only to see if forum members thought this coin was CAC material.

    Isn't the green decal a giveaway?

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bigjpst said:
    Not even close to the ugliest CAC coin I’ve seen. But I bet it’s nicer in have than the photos seem. But I don’t believe CAC generally puts eye appeal over technical grade.

    Technically, eye appeal is part of the grade.

  • GiveMeProofGiveMeProof Posts: 560 ✭✭✭✭

    Our esteemed member Manifest Destiny even opined that the coin “looked crapped upon”.

    I agree. It may have the grade but there is zero eye appeal IMHO.

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would bet the coin looks much better in hand and probably has a nice mix of colors.

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 663 ✭✭✭✭

    It’s unfortunate CMQ has so far not been successful with collectors, due to issues with grading strictness and consistency. This would be a perfect example of a coin they wouldn’t sticker, as they could have positioned themselves in the market as a legitimate quality sticker service putting an emphasis on eye appeal.

  • FredSFredS Posts: 59 ✭✭✭

    PCGS and CAC will not both get it wrong. The asking price is what is really wrong here! With that somewhat unattractive toning, it should be less than nicer examples, which go for $300-$375.

  • RelaxnRelaxn Posts: 841 ✭✭✭✭

    The coin, in hand, is a luster bomb and the toning is nice.

    I have no idea what ia going on in this post but it feels disingenuous...

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The knee looks fine.

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 663 ✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerlover said:

    @IkesT said:
    This coin belongs to Bob Paul Rare Coins and is currently listed for sale on eBay.

    You swore up and down on your last thread that you would never post another coin on the Forum before buying and receiving it. Is there any promise that you've ever kept?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/155892890026

    I am not considering purchasing it. Anyone can comment generally on coins for sale in various venues. I said specifically I would not ask for information on a coin to receive advice information that I was interested in. I posted this for educational purposes only to see if forum members thought this coin was CAC material.

    To IkesT and Manifest Destiny, sorry things got out of hand. My NGC thread should not have been posted by me. My intention wasn’t bad just bad judgement. My apologies if my attitude was poor.

  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @bigjpst said:
    Not even close to the ugliest CAC coin I’ve seen. But I bet it’s nicer in have than the photos seem. But I don’t believe CAC generally puts eye appeal over technical grade.

    Technically, eye appeal is part of the grade.

    I suppose. And technically I would say even if someone didn’t like the toning on this particular coin it has above average eye appeal. Enough so to merit the grade. Comparing to the large number of 65 graded dollars with dark not attractive toning.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2024 9:43PM

    What a dog that coin is. How can somebody sticker something like that lol. Would it even bring blue sheet? Pass. What is this the elevator to basement parade / get outta here.

    Push your elevator button for the Pent House at the top and go for coins brilliant, wellstruck, with nice luster and PQ. Not some ruined tarnish trash! Jimmy does try be nice, ethical and buy them - 10c on price guide $.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 663 ✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    What a dog that coin is. How can somebody sticker something like that lol. Would it even bring blue sheet? Pass. What is this the elevator to basement parade / get outta here.

    Push your elevator button for the Pent House at the top and go for coins brilliant, wellstruck, with nice luster and PQ. Not some ruined tarnish trash! Jimmy does try be nice and buy them - 10c on price guide $.

    My opinion is in line with yours, was just waiting for someone like you to weigh in as I don’t know what some of the posters were thinking here.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2024 9:58PM

    Did Godzilla breathe on it?

    Maybe some of them just trying have some fun or maybe the down elevator crowd go figure ROFL. If they buy that the joke is on them.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • jughead1893jughead1893 Posts: 826 ✭✭✭✭

    Toning in the pics looks ugly to me. Just because it has a sticker doesn't mean its right for me every time. Nope

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The tone streaks have color, which is better than if they were gray or black, of course.

  • emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 3,923 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mother Nature does have a soft spot, and with style and class.
    I like the coin no matter what grade.
    That's the first coin I've seen that really hit home , I would think.
    Nice !

  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    I suspect that this is original vintage album toning from a first generation Whitman blue trifold album, where there were streaks of glue on the backing paper inside the holes. (As part of the manufacturing process they put glue on the backing sheet and then applied the three cut out cardboard sheets onto that. Because this exposed the coins to the glue, they changed the manufacturing process to apply glue to the backs of the three cardboard sheets, which left the holes clear.) Of course that would mean that the coin was put in the holder face down. I have seen some old time Whitman albums where some coins were face up and others were face down, though that was usually to show the mint mark.

    The toning is not great, but I respect it. I do not consider the coin unattractive, just different.

    TD

    In layman’s terms, environmental damage? ;)

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,736 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2024 4:19AM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Walkerlover said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    What a dog that coin is. How can somebody sticker something like that lol. Would it even bring blue sheet? Pass. What is this the elevator to basement parade / get outta here.

    Push your elevator button for the Pent House at the top and go for coins brilliant, wellstruck, with nice luster and PQ. Not some ruined tarnish trash! Jimmy does try be nice and buy them - 10c on price guide $.

    My opinion is in line with yours, was just waiting for someone like you to weigh in as I don’t know what some of the posters were thinking here.

    You think that coin is worth 10% of guide? What strange bed fellows. I'm not sure you want to align yourself with that particular individual. But when it is about 15 to 1, what does it prove when you join the one? I bet you can find someone who wants to scrap it or someone who thinks it's only worth face value.

    I wasn’t sure if by “someone like you” he meant someone who agreed with him or that he thought that poster was a sharp grader, whose opinion regarding such coins was of value. In case it was the latter, he’d probably be better off waiting for someone else.😉

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,055 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2024 7:37AM

    It is likely more colorful and has luster behind the color in hand. It is a common pattern on coins from original rolls. That said, there are some pretty ugly CAC coins out there. As long as the coin is still a B coin for the grade, CAC will sticker it and is justified doing so based on its published standards.

  • P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1madman said:
    Perhaps this post is beneficial in the fact that I’ve never bought a coin from Bob Paul Rare Coins, but isn’t this coin correctly valued ~$300? If his style is to sell unattractively toned coins at a 50%+ premium, it will save me time in the future by ignoring his inventory. Thank you walkerlover

    I sold a Peace dollar to Bob Paul RC at IMEX, and they paid well for it and were a pleasure to deal with.

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:
    That said, there are some pretty ugly CAC coins out there. As long as the coin is still a B coin for the grade, CAC will sticker it and is justified doing so based on its published standards.

    There have been several comments in this thread like this. Until recently, my limited experience and the few incidental CAC coins I have was that in general not only were they solid for the grade, but also above average in eye appeal.

    This perception changed at FUN, when I found two different coins that I needed for my sets ( one early walker, one large cent), both in stickered PCGS 58 holders. Both had poor lifeless luster, strike issues, and in the case of the walker, black terminal toning splotches on the reverse. That’s when I determined eye appeal may not be part of the assessment equation. Or perhaps what “they” consider eye appeal differs from my own and others?

    And so buy the coin, not holder/sticker is still prudent.

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  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerlover said:
    Seems to me like CAC maybe should not have stickered this coin as it has too much negative eye appeal. The surface quality is very poor Our esteemed member Manifest Destiny even opined that the coin “looked crapped upon”. What’s your take on this. BTW I collect only CAC and like their grading services.

    Could you describe what you mean when you state 'the surface quality is very poor'?

    Have you seen this coin in hand and rotated it under a light? Since you only collect CAC, do you feel your opinion is better than theirs since they did. They must have felt it was solid for grade, isn't that what their sticker denotes? Isn't that why some people only buy CACd coins?

    It did not take me long to realize there were more cool coins than I had money to buy. The ones I did not like were an easy pass. The ones that I did like but were bringing or asking more than I felt they were worth are also a pass. I end up being underbidder that stopped more than winning in auctions. I have missed a few treasures but also have saved from some that ended being dogs or became available again for much less in the future.

    Life is too short to spend time wondering why on 'easy pass' coins when there are new auctions listed every day to search for new treasures. ++

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I once had an opportunity to talk with Laura Sperber at a FUN show and showed her a CAC coin I owned which I had doubts about. I had expected her to say, "DRECK!" Instead, she said, "Nice coin." Surprised, I questioned her about the dark eye appeal. Her answer, "But, sometimes that's the way they come."

  • mattnissmattniss Posts: 547 ✭✭✭

    FWIW, I've often seen that Bob Paul Rare Coins publicly prices their inventory quite strongly above retail, however in person I've found them to be reputable and fair. Bought a coin from them at a previous Long Beach show at a price that worked for us both despite that same coin being listed for quite a bit more at their retail price.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @IkesT said:
    This coin belongs to Bob Paul Rare Coins and is currently listed for sale on eBay.

    No "Mighty Tighty White Lite-Brite" sticker for that one.

  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2024 1:37PM

    Tempest in a teapot imo.
    If you look at Bob Paul's images the coin pops pretty well from a color standpoint and I think that's likely how it looks in hand... and although some don't particularly care for the streaky nature of the toning, it still looks nice, original and worthy of the grade given.
    Edit to add that I don't like the price, however.


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