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Vault Box 5 launching tomorrow - who’s in?

Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

The 1249 price made the decision for me!

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Comments

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,519 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It seems that as the price gets higher so does the disparity between the cost and the value of most of the boxes. :/

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2024 11:35AM

    I thought about it, I laughed about it........................then I forgot about it.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,281 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    It seems that as the price gets higher so does the disparity between the cost and the value of most of the boxes. :/

    Where did you find the average value of the box contents?

  • "> Where did you find the average value of the box contents?"
    Probably by observing VB1-4.
    Based on the historic value of VB1-4 it is safe to say that each $240 holder equates to about $80 worth of coin.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

  • Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @JBK said:
    It seems that as the price gets higher so does the disparity between the cost and the value of most of the boxes. :/

    Where did you find the average value of the box contents?

    Obviously the average value is lower than the cost - otherwise there would not be a 5th series!
    The idea is what “a few” of the buyers will get above value, but at the expense of the rest who clearly overpaid to accommodate the “winners”

  • Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coins are not baseball cards - I’m not sure the same concept applies - does the vault box even provide a free piece of gum?

  • hfjacintohfjacinto Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I haven’t been following these threads (vault box ) but I am curious did any one buy 1 and made out 💵or was it a total 💩💸

  • @hfjacinto said:
    I haven’t been following these threads (vault box ) but I am curious did any one buy 1 and made out 💵or was it a total 💩💸

    It was all 💩, even the winning coins were really subdued.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

  • MICHAELDIXONMICHAELDIXON Posts: 6,337 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not me! Cost priced me out!

    Spring National Battlefield Coin Show is April 12-13, 2024 at the Eisenhower Hotel in Gettysburg, PA. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @JBK said:
    It seems that as the price gets higher so does the disparity between the cost and the value of most of the boxes. :/

    Where did you find the average value of the box contents?

    I did not do any specific research - it is just my impression.

    And, as I predicted, you had something to say about it. 🙄

    So far, your prediction hasn’t panned out. He asked a question, but didn’t actually say anything about it…yet.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • I think it's clear JM was trying to argue semantics. Again.
    It's pretty clear to everyone the "Value" of VB holders.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,519 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @JBK said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @JBK said:
    It seems that as the price gets higher so does the disparity between the cost and the value of most of the boxes. :/

    Where did you find the average value of the box contents?

    I did not do any specific research - it is just my impression.

    And, as I predicted, you had something to say about it. 🙄

    So far, your prediction hasn’t panned out. He asked a question, but didn’t actually say anything about it…yet.

    His question was effectively a comment, obviously. 😉

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,281 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @JBK said:
    It seems that as the price gets higher so does the disparity between the cost and the value of most of the boxes. :/

    Where did you find the average value of the box contents?

    I did not do any specific research - it is just my impression.

    And, as I predicted, you had something to say about it. 🙄

    I asked a question as I have not seen any calculations. My apologies for being interested.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,281 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:

    @MFeld said:

    @JBK said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @JBK said:
    It seems that as the price gets higher so does the disparity between the cost and the value of most of the boxes. :/

    Where did you find the average value of the box contents?

    I did not do any specific research - it is just my impression.

    And, as I predicted, you had something to say about it. 🙄

    So far, your prediction hasn’t panned out. He asked a question, but didn’t actually say anything about it…yet.

    His question was effectively a comment, obviously. 😉

    Really? How should I have phrased the question so it was clear that it was an actual question?

  • Someone could avoid Rhetical and sarcastic questions or, and this is the important part, contribute instead of arguing.
    Being defensive over VB isn't going to make the rest of us think they are a smart product.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,281 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2024 3:41PM

    @RiveraFamilyCollect said:
    Someone could avoid Rhetical and sarcastic questions or, and this is the important part, contribute instead of arguing.
    Being defensive over VB isn't going to make the rest of us think they are a smart product.

    The question was and is non-rhetorical and not sarcastic. I also haven't posited any argument at all. I just asked an honest question and got jumped on for it.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,281 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @JBK said:

    @MFeld said:

    @JBK said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @JBK said:
    It seems that as the price gets higher so does the disparity between the cost and the value of most of the boxes. :/

    Where did you find the average value of the box contents?

    I did not do any specific research - it is just my impression.

    And, as I predicted, you had something to say about it. 🙄

    So far, your prediction hasn’t panned out. He asked a question, but didn’t actually say anything about it…yet.

    His question was effectively a comment, obviously. 😉

    Really? How should I have phrased the question so it was clear that it was an actual question?

    Your reputation precedes you. ;)

    Passive aggressive, aggressive aggressive - consistent behaviors that preclude the presumption of an honest question. Especially in a VB thread.

    Odd. I appear to be the only non-aggressive poster in this entire thread.

  • LJenkins11LJenkins11 Posts: 706 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I haven't purchased any of these releases but this one seems to have expanded dramatically compared to series I. PCGS has their variant .... how soon until a CAC/CACG equivalent enters the ring? I also would not partake in that either if it occurred but this model clearly has a market whichever side of the coin you fall on the idea. This feels all too much like something from the sports card arena.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,281 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2024 3:53PM

    @hfjacinto said:
    @jmlanzaf being a relatively newby I have experienced your passive aggressive persona on multiple times. Just saying.

    Really? I'm usually accused of being too direct. I guess I've grown.

    I almost can't believe everyone is piling on over an honest question. For prior releases, people had done the math. It's trickier with the 3 coins and I hadn't seen any statistics.

    Whatever...

  • ElKevvoElKevvo Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The only ones who can tell you the true average value of the coins in a Vault Box series are the folks at Vault Box. If the forum members who bought them would get together and share how much they paid and what they received in return depending on the number of responses a statistically accurate value could be determined.

    But in reality it does not really matter as if you are looking at VB as a practical matter ie: having some value for the average buyer you won't buy into the concept due to the low potential for a return on your dollar where as if you buy a VB for the fun of it you don't care about the return, it is just the chance that interests you. So 2 camps of thought rooted in base personality types and the chance of moving from one side to the other is slim.

    K

    ANA LM
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,281 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ElKevvo said:
    The only ones who can tell you the true average value of the coins in a Vault Box series are the folks at Vault Box. If the forum members who bought them would get together and share how much they paid and what they received in return depending on the number of responses a statistically accurate value could be determined.

    But in reality it does not really matter as if you are looking at VB as a practical matter ie: having some value for the average buyer you won't buy into the concept due to the low potential for a return on your dollar where as if you buy a VB for the fun of it you don't care about the return, it is just the chance that interests you. So 2 camps of thought rooted in base personality types and the chance of moving from one side to the other is slim.

    K

    there is a complete list of all the coins in the boxes. Anyone who wanted to spend the time could calculate it. I saw numbers for 3 of the 4 prior releases.

  • lermishlermish Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @ElKevvo said:
    The only ones who can tell you the true average value of the coins in a Vault Box series are the folks at Vault Box. If the forum members who bought them would get together and share how much they paid and what they received in return depending on the number of responses a statistically accurate value could be determined.

    But in reality it does not really matter as if you are looking at VB as a practical matter ie: having some value for the average buyer you won't buy into the concept due to the low potential for a return on your dollar where as if you buy a VB for the fun of it you don't care about the return, it is just the chance that interests you. So 2 camps of thought rooted in base personality types and the chance of moving from one side to the other is slim.

    K

    there is a complete list of all the coins in the boxes. Anyone who wanted to spend the time could calculate it. I saw numbers for 3 of the 4 prior releases.

    There is a published complete list of coins. Someone could fairly easily find the values and do some simple math but it's a lot of work.

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2024 6:55PM

    @JBK said:
    It seems that as the price gets higher so does the disparity between the cost and the value of most of the boxes. :/

    It really has to be this way, because the prizes are becoming ever more valuable, so that requires an increasing contribution from the losing boxes.

    At least give them credit for being transparent. This time around, they are telling you that you will have to buy 18 coins, on average, to receive one winner. Being told that you should expect to spend $7500 to get one winner should sober up most of the fanboys, in addition to pricing the Freddies of the world out of the game.

    I think it is very telling that they raised the purchase limit from 2 to 6 while basically doubling the price from where they started. This, plus the delay in rolling these out until after the holidays, kind of tells you that they don't expect these to be the easy sell rounds 1-4 ended up being.

    I never really understood the attraction, so it's clear that I am missing something here. That said, I REALLY don't see what they are going for this time around, because the more expensive these become, the less attractive they are to people like Freddie who would otherwise be attracted.

    And I just don't think people who can afford $7500 for a case of 18, or $1250 for a single box of 3, would have any interest in spending that kind of money on lottery tickets with such a low expected return. People with that kind of money usually did not acquire it by being reckless with money, or placing that kind of value on the thrill of a break.

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2024 6:52PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @ElKevvo said:
    The only ones who can tell you the true average value of the coins in a Vault Box series are the folks at Vault Box. If the forum members who bought them would get together and share how much they paid and what they received in return depending on the number of responses a statistically accurate value could be determined.

    But in reality it does not really matter as if you are looking at VB as a practical matter ie: having some value for the average buyer you won't buy into the concept due to the low potential for a return on your dollar where as if you buy a VB for the fun of it you don't care about the return, it is just the chance that interests you. So 2 camps of thought rooted in base personality types and the chance of moving from one side to the other is slim.

    K

    there is a complete list of all the coins in the boxes. Anyone who wanted to spend the time could calculate it. I saw numbers for 3 of the 4 prior releases.

    So, since you are so interested, what are you waiting for?

    Most of us realize the exercise will be a waste of time, because the answer, based on 4 prior releases, will be a big win for VB and a big loss for the vast majority of the public. And that's before getting into the unregulated and unsupervised manner in which they are distributed.

    But, as an academic who wants data, the numbers are all there for you to crunch. Please report back when you are done.

  • ElKevvoElKevvo Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    there is a complete list of all the coins in the boxes. Anyone who wanted to spend the time could calculate it. I saw numbers for 3 of the 4 prior releases.

    Thanks for the info...I did not know that!

    K

    ANA LM
  • coinandcurrency242coinandcurrency242 Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭✭

    I believe vaultbox have deals with people who sell on what knot. Either way, I'm staying far away. Odds are you will lose your butt at that price.

    Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP

  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2024 7:48PM

    Didn't VBs cost around 300-400$ ? Why the jump?

    Oh, I see it's a 3 coin box - nevermind!!!!!!

  • Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    I almost can't believe everyone is piling on over an honest question. For prior releases, people had done the math. It's trickier with the 3 coins and I hadn't seen any statistics.

    Whatever...

    For what it is worth, I thought it was a reasonable question, was curious myself —

  • OnastoneOnastone Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Che_Grapes said:
    Coins are not baseball cards - I’m not sure the same concept applies - does the vault box even provide a free piece of gum?

    Well no, but they did pass out some free gold bucks didn't they?

  • hfjacintohfjacinto Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mfeld sadly you have not been the brunt of @jmlanzaf passive aggressive post directed at you, so I can see how the post was misconstrued.

    If you treat the posters poorly you get the same treatment back. It is what it is.

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @hfjacinto said:
    I haven’t been following these threads (vault box ) but I am curious did any one buy 1 and made out 💵or was it a total 💩💸

    Like any lottery, a few win, a few more break even, and the rest lose.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,805 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NeophyteNumismatist said:
    Just found my ringside seat, and popped the corn. Ladies and Gentlemen let's get ready to rumble.

    In the red corner - wearing the Vaultbox Red Trunks with a healthy dose of optimism... it's @WQuarterFreddie
    In the blue corner - Wearing the Dodger Blue Trunks and a condemning scowl... it's @NJCoin

    Alright fellas... let's keep this fight clean, and the first one to get the thread "poofed" loses. Now touch gloves...

    (since I don't care how people spend their money... I am just going to watch this all unfold).

    Now all the match lacks is a referee. Perhaps someone in this thread qualifies.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @spacehayduke said:
    As PT Barnum said...........

    This way to the Egress?

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • coinandcurrency242coinandcurrency242 Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭✭

    In my opinion, vault box is the modern day version of those late night coin tv shows trying to sell you items.

    Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s sold out. They push the envelope and people keep buying. Series 6 will probably be a couple grand.

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,471 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I dunno. I look at what I've spent on my collection compared to PCGS price guide and I'm wondering if I should play the VB game instead! ;)

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • OnastoneOnastone Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are they really going to number every time they make an event?? VB #2 was better than #4 but not as good as #3. Some are looking forward to #6 now, hoping it will be more like #4 and less like #5. Just think, when they have been selling for a year, they will have their First Year Anniversary Blowout Box!!!

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinandcurrency242 said:
    In my opinion, vault box is the modern day version of those late night coin tv shows trying to sell you items.

  • NeophyteNumismatistNeophyteNumismatist Posts: 852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    RIP Billy Mays Hayes :'(

    I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.

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