Home U.S. Coin Forum

Double D's 2024 Fun Report with some newps (long read)

DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭✭✭

After a 3 HR drive on Wednesday, I arrived at the north hall of the OCCC around 2 pm. The dealer registration lines were packed, and first I had to wait in line to renew my fun dues. Then I waited in the corresponding alphabetically organized lines for Dealer check-in, and then as luck would have it I had forgotten my ID badge from last year so I had to wait in a third line to get a new badge. Fortunately, the FUN staff knew what they were doing and I did not suffer, the lines moved fairly quickly.

Many of you know that I'm normally registered as a Dealer at the @numismattack table, I help out at the booth in between my walking and I typically have some coins for sale in the cases whether they are mine, or consignments from other collectors. As luck would have it, Noah had to get the booth set up Wednesday and he would be returning home the following morning because he is within a couple of weeks of becoming a father (yay)! His partner Paul was there as usual, and Noah had also brought his friend Ashley to lend a hand in his absence. The other usual suspects at the Numismattack table include @treybenedict, whom many of you know is a young prodigy who developed the Pure App and Marketplace, Eric L who is a YN dealer that specializes in FE and Indian head Cents, and David H who is a YN dealer who specializes in world coinage, specifically shipwreck cobbs and Chinese coins. These sharp young guys are all between 21-24 in age and make me feel like an old fart :D. Needless to say, it's always a party at our booth with a lot going on.

On dealer set-up day, many booths are slowly setting up and putting out their material while the dealers and early bird collectors start scouring the floor. If you are a collector with a narrow and specific focus, It might behoove you to pay for the early bird badge on Wednesday, because some great coins are undoubtedly scooped up and tucked away before the show opens to the public on Thursday and the early bird badge levels the playing field. The bourse closes at 8 on Wednesday, and shortly before that I had quickly gone to check into my room at the Rosen and change my shirt real quick. I had noticed that my room smelled musty/bad but I was in a rush to go pick up the rest of the group from the Hyatt, so figured I'd deal with that when I got back. The lot of us hopped in my truck and headed over to Maggianos for some family-style Italian dinner and some drinks. Eric had invited one of his clients, a very experienced collector named Glenn to join us as well. Here we all are, a very diverse group of people aged between 21 and 70ish, telling stories and sharing our life experiences. This is why I love this hobby, where an eclectic mix of both dealers and collectors of all ages can relate to each other and find common ground among these little metal discs that we obsess about.

Upon my return to the Rosen, I went directly to the front desk and explained the situation with the musk/odor. I was told to go to my room and they would call me when another was ready. 10-15 minutes later, I got the call that new room keys were being brought up to me. I opened the door to find a security guard, with jingling keys and a chirping radio who gave me the keys and told me that I needed to "vacate the room immediately" in a not-so-friendly tone. I felt that this was handled terribly, to send a security guard with no customer service skills whatsoever to handle a room transfer, but my new room smelled much better so no harm, no foul (or so I thought, more to come later).

I got to the bourse around 9 on Thursday and had some submissions to send in. I thought my Bechtler $1 had a decent shot at 58 and it needed a new holder, so submitted it for show regrade. I had a classic head 2.5 in 61cac that I was originally planning on regrading since I thought it had a moderate shot at 62 and it also needed a new holder, but I decided to save money and crack it out to have some fun with CACG instead. They weren't grading on site so I'll have those results in a couple of weeks or so. I had two NGC/CAC coins that I had originally planned to cross to CACG as it would have been FAR less expensive, but alas, CACG was still not ready to grade pioneer gold and I could no longer endure the agony of presenting those coins in scratched up NGC holders, so I submitted for cross at PCGS and crossed my fingers. The lines at PCGS were moderate but it didn't take me long to get that all taken care of.

After that, I had to start covering ground quickly. The bourse was beginning to fill and there was quite a bit of foot traffic on Thursday. I'm never really looking for anything specific, so my approach is to methodically work down each aisle to see if anything catches my eye. I wasn't seeing a whole lot of fresh material in my area of interest, there were a lot of stale coins that had been languishing the past couple of shows and some dealers were still stubborn with their pricing. It appeared that CACG material had finally penetrated the market to a reasonable degree, and I noticed that NGC/CAC slabs were less and less in number. Two tables, in particular, had a majority of CACG slabs in their cases. Liz Coggan and David Greenie Jr, who shares a booth with Harlan Berk. From my talks with many dealers about CACG, as of now, feelings are mixed for the most part. Noah said he's getting PCAC money for them, and others think they will always be secondary to PCAC, but yet still equal to or slightly more desirable than NCAC. I was on the lookout for any under-graded CACG slabs I could arbitrage, but many times when I found a stand-out coin in a CACG slab it was priced several grades above and the dealer wasn't budging.

I caught up with my good friend @lermish who was finally able to make it to Winter FUN, but the compromise for him was that it was a family trip and he only had one full day at the show, the rest of his time was occupied with Disney and family activities. He was hunting primarily for his chopped trade dollar collection, and he had a submission for PCGS that I would pick up for him the next day. It was proving difficult for me to cover the floor in a timely fashion, as I kept getting caught up talking to dealers about all the comings and goings of the coin market. I had at-length conversations with Shannon from Paradime, John Brush and the DLRC gang, Allen Rowe of NNC, Doug Winter, Stu Levine, @shish, @messydesk, Gerry Fortin, Seth Chandler, JA and the folks at the CACG table, and of course Laura and Jessica at the legend table. I learned that Jessica will be a free agent at the end of January, so hopefully she lands a solid offer elsewhere as she really is a pleasure to deal with and did a great job at LRCA.

It wasn't until I sat with David McCarthy of Kagin's that I finally found a new coin for my collection. David (@Regulated) is always very generous with his time, and as long as the table isn't swarming he will talk coins for hours. He is one of the greatest numismatic researchers of our time, and I try to soak up as much information during my interactions with him. I mentioned that I had an example of all the pioneer gold denominations except for a $10, and my preference would be a Clark Gruber mountain $10 if he knows of any. To my surprise, he says "🤔 Oh, as a matter of fact, I just bought one a couple weeks ago!". My eyes lit up as he reached into a box behind him and pulled it out. It's actually the plate coin to his and Don's new book, "Americas Golden Age". While I would have preferred a PCAC piece, the coin is accurately graded as an NGC AU55 and it took on some really wild color. He explained that the early refining of gold in Colorado was rich in silver, and only the early strikes of this issue tend to tone wildly like this. The same exact coin in a PCAC holder probably would have cost 10-15k more and I was happy with its appearance so I bought it. The show was now a success in my book.





I stuffed down a barbecue platter and got back to work. I was struggling to find anything that interested me, as I recalled there were many more coins of interest at last year's winter FUN. There was one KILLER 1834 Classic head in 64+cac at Legends table, but I have had my eye on a coin in the platinum session later this week and was not prepared to spend that kind of money on the bourse after purchasing my Mountain 10. I ran into @PocketChange who remarked that he also hadn't found much, and I also ran into @Floridafacelifter who had some amazing treasures to share as usual. Towards the end of the day, @FlyingAl had stopped at the bourse and I introduced him to a few others at the show. @lermish and I went to grab a bite to eat at a Spanish place that was really good.

On Friday, I decided to get to the convention center at 8 am and start lot viewing at HA. I viewed every single lot in the Platinum session so it took me a full 2 hours. There were some amazing patterns from the Simpson collection, the gold (not gilt) $5 J-271 Ex Trompeter-Simpson is a sight to behold and will surely attract spirited bidding. The $50 half unions were also quite impressive, as was the Humbert-Garrett $50 Kellogg in PR64CAM. I would practice my grading abilities by covering up the number on the slab, and most times I'm within 1 grade, grading proof coins is always a challenge for me though. @Coinbert popped into the viewing for a bit too and we chatted briefly about a coin at Paradime that I had sent him a picture of.









I wanted to try to do another quick round on the floor, stopping at the tables I had to skip the day prior. There was still plenty of foot traffic, but not as much as Thursday. Most of my time was consumed socializing with dealers and collectors as it always is. I got to meet @usararecoins and @golden who both stopped by to introduce themselves and say hello, and I'm very glad they did. Two more collectors from this forum stopped by to say hello, both of them were long-time lurkers here, I had encouraged them to start posting more as they had some amazing coins to show off. Later on, I got an email that my grades had popped. Unfortunately, my Bechtler did not upgrade, but both my crossovers were successful!

One of them I have never shown here, until now. I purchased it through a friend, over the phone at the February Long Beach show last year. It is an 1852 .887 $50 assay slug in AU55. Previously housed in an NCAC holder, it now resides in clearer PCGS plastic and is currently on its way back to CAC. The coin is a solid choice AU, and while it has moderate abrasions for the date, I fell in love with the originality of it when I first saw it. It's got one little corner bump, but the corners are often banged up on these 2.5oz hunks of gold, and one little one doesn't bother me. Some collectors might prefer a coin with fewer contact marks, but when it comes to pioneer gold I prioritize color and originality a bit more. There are plenty of bright and unoriginal slugs to be had at any given time, but Ron Guth wrote that "Finding an example with original "Skin" and that crusty old-gold look is well-nigh impossible." I also like that mine is the K-13 variety as opposed to the more commonly found K-5s and K-6 Humbert varieties. The argument can be made that the US assay office was operating much like a branch mint in 1852, so the US assay varieties for all intents and purposes could be considered to be federally issued coins. The other crossover was my $5 Moffat that I purchased from GC not long ago as an NGC 58cac. Being that the price guide of the slug was recently raised to 115k, that one crossover alone cost me almost $1500 🤯.




There was an interesting spectacle that many have heard about. I was at the booth when Paul got a text from Ashley that she was stuck in the bathroom because someone was being arrested right there. David and I rushed over there to catch the action. Security had a middle-aged pale gentleman pinned against the wall, he was resisting arrest and they were about to make him before they finally got him in cuffs and walked him out, followed by a round of applause from the crowd of observers. As the crowd dissipated, I saw the security guard wiping a small amount of blood off his arm and I yelled at him to "Rub some dirt on it!" lol. I got to talking with him and he told me what happened. This guy and a woman (wife?) were looking at jewelry at one of the tables and I guess she had run a slight of hand distraction while he made off with 3 gold rings. When security found him he had thrown the rings, but they were later all recovered and returned to the dealer. Another dealer friend of mine, Dan G with HBC associates also had a 09-s vdb in p30 walk from his table. It later dawned on him that there were two guys, one with a thick dark beard that was probably fake, who had done something similar where they distracted him and made off with the coin. He filed a report with the police and security and all that, hopefully they can identify that lowlife as well.

Toward the end of the day, I got to catch up with @Catbert for some show and tell before we all went to dinner. I showed him some crusty gold and he showed me some lovely additions to his seated halves and ogh cac 2.5 indian set. We then had dinner reservations at Chima Steakhouse, a Brazilian steakhouse where they come around with all the different meats that they carve onto your plate. It was me, @Catbert, @Floridafacelifter, @FlyingAl and his Mom, Gary from World Class Coins, and a young NGC grader. It was interesting to get some insight from an active grader, we had quite a bit of questions lined up for him and it did give me a newfound respect for career graders who typically grade up to 800 coins per day! As Alex had mentioned in his report, one thing that did stick out to me was the combined grading experience of NGC vs PCGS, and NGC has a substantial lead. Apparently, one of the main drawbacks for graders PCGS is having to relocate/live in CA where the cost of living is just absurd these days, it makes sense that many would rather work at NGC for a comparable salary.

On Saturday, I slept a bit longer and was getting ready to check out of my hotel and head to the bourse, when I noticed that a piece of paper had been slid under my door. It showed my hotel incidental charges which included my parking costs, and to my surprise, a line item that read "Transfer from room 809- smoke cleaning fee $350" 😱. I was LIVID, how could they be charging me a $350 cleaning fee for a room that was smelly upon my arrival, when I spent all of 15 minutes in said room only to change my shirt?! I walked down to the desk and explained what happened to the desk employee, and sat for 10 minutes to wait to speak with the manager. The manager said that while he wasn't on duty at the time, but if they added the fee then there was a reason for it, and he would have to perform an "investigation" to see what had happened. though I was fuming on the inside, I calmly pleaded my case, that they could check their cameras and easily see that I spent virtually no time in that room. He replied that I should have told them immediately about the room stench, but I retorted that I was on a business trip and did not have time to wait in line at the counter before I had to go to dinner. In so many words, I told him "We can do this the easy way, or we can do this the hard way, but either way, you are not keeping that $350 and that is a promise." I shook his hand and went to the bourse.

There was much less buzz on Saturday, and public attendance was sparse. I was mainly hanging out at my table, and casually perusing the offerings on the floor. A 1921 Peace dollar caught my eye, and I could not resist buying it. This coin was more of a guilty pleasure that falls outside of my normal focus, but the originality and eye appeal were off the charts and for $700 I could not resist. I did say that I wanted to add a silver coin to my collection in 2024 😂. By noon dealers were already starting to pack up, and I caught up with @FlyingAl and @Floridafacelifter again and we all went back to Al's room to take some shots of our coins. I'm extremely satisfied with them, Al has a real talent for numismatic photography and takes much pride in his work. We got back to the bourse and by 3 pm the floor was a ghost town. I answered a phone call from the Rosen manager who had informed me that he had indeed checked the cameras and saw that I spent no time in the room, and they were refunding the $350 cleaning charge. Needless to say, I will be booking at the Hyatt next year. I hung around my table chatting with people until about 5:30 and then I got out of there. As I was walking out @FlyingAl texted me about his results from the NGC grading competition, and as expected he got first prize with one of the best scores they had seen in a long time, surely Alex will do very well in this hobby if he decides to make a career of it after college.




In summary, the show had good traffic but I don't think it was quite as active as last year. Some dealers are still clinging to top auction prices with languishing or lackluster inventory, and those dealers didn't do much business. Many other tables were much more realistic and were happy to price their offerings at current market levels or around the greysheet bid. As a whole, feelings about the show were mostly positive. I'd say about 75% said they had a good show, 15% said it was okay, and 10% said it sucked. There wasn't as much fresh PQ material and many dealers have adopted a very conservative buying strategy. Many retail customers are more conservative in their approach as well, regardless if they like a coin or not they are willing to wait to find one priced at a level they agree with. I only sold 1 coin at the show and it was a generic double eagle, no retail interest on the others. Granted, some of the coins I was offering were out of my collection and were priced optimistically as I'm not motivated to sell them. I have my eye on a serious coin in the upcoming HA platinum session, so hopefully, more to come with that later this week or next. Thanks for making it through this long read, I expect that my next big show won't be until Central States in April but I had a great time at FUN this year, and I highly recommend that everyone attend Winter Fun at least once!

«1

Comments

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It was really special to sit down and see your primo gold, Dan. I also appreciated getting to know you better. It’s really the relationships one can develop in this hobby that is especially enriching. Thanks for making time for me!!!

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,753 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great report and beautiful coins. Congrats!


    "There are no called strikes in coin collecting."--Henry David Thoreau RYK
  • mikee999mikee999 Posts: 336 ✭✭✭✭

    @JimTyler said:
    I didn’t read all that but I’m standing on the edge of a 10 story building and if you say you bought all those coins pictured I’m jumping off.

    I’m behind you.

  • lermishlermish Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fantastic report but that's no surprise by this point 😉

    Spending time with friends and enjoying this hobby was a wonderful way to start the year. I wish I could have had one more day but so it goes. Nice color on the Peace... hopefully she'll have a big sister soon 😁

    Funny you should mention David McC, I was just talking with him this morning...

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice report! Glad to have had a chance to chat for a while. Cool stuff you acquired.

  • P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great running into you Dan. That $10 Clark Gruber is very attractive—congrats on finding that one.

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

  • divecchiadivecchia Posts: 6,509 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great show report. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience and for showing some great coins in your write-up.

    Donato

    Hobbyist & Collector (not an investor).
    Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set

    Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
  • breakdownbreakdown Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great report - thank you for taking the time to post it. You have some beautiful gold, but I particularly like the Pikes Peak Clark Gruber, which has some meat on it. That is the one territorial I want to own someday, but it's so hard to find one that doesn't look scrubbed to death.

    "Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,163 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well damn. Makes my coins look pretty puny.

  • goldengolden Posts: 8,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great meeting you at the show. I really like your early gold.

  • OwnerofawheatiehordeOwnerofawheatiehorde Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That MS-69 gold dollar is absolutely ridiculous.

    Type collector, mainly into Seated. Young Numismatist. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON

  • PillarDollarCollectorPillarDollarCollector Posts: 4,605 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great report thanks for sharing!!!

    Collecting interests: Mexico & Peru early milled 1 reales + 1796-1891 US dimes

    Sports: NHL & NFL

    Thank you Lord for another beautiful day!!!

  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2024 5:07PM

    @Ownerofawheatiehorde said:
    That MS-69 gold dollar is absolutely ridiculous.

    DD , good to read your excellent hotel and show report. I wished I could have attended the FUN show. Instead I was ordered to attend my grandson’s 2nd birthday party by both my wife and daughter.

    I used to stay at the Rosen Hotel as it was a great location next to the old FUN location. But your episode about the smoking charge serves as a warning to be better to be late for dinner than to deal with hotel staff afterwards,

    Now onto that 1853 G $1!!!!
    That coin is not supposed to have survived in MS-69?.

    More than absolutely reduculous. It is absurd!!!!

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,038 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks DD for the great report. Looks like you scored several wins and I congratulate you and again, a most enjoyable report.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,478 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice report Dan,
    Too bad you didn't put names of the people at the table in the 1st pic,

  • DscoinDscoin Posts: 319 ✭✭✭✭

    Nice report Dan, if you weren’t being mobbed by more than 3 people I would have chatted with you more on Thursday!

    Successful transactions with: Lakesammman, jimineez1, Flackthat, PerryHall, bidask, bccox, TwistedArrow1962, free_spirit, alexerca, scooter25, FHC, tnspro, mcarney1173, moursund, and SurfinxHI (6 times)

  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @alaura22 said:
    Nice report Dan,
    Too bad you didn't put names of the people at the table in the 1st pic,

    From left to right- Ashley, Me, Trey, Paul, Eric, Glenn, David, Noah

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,478 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You look nothing like your avatar OR vice-versa.......... :o

  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gotta say that your pictures of the Clark Gruber in the NGC holder make it look like an incredible deep orange tone. Then the second set of pictures shown by flyingal make the coin look puttied, cleaned, washed out.

    Wondering if this coin would details grade at cacg or pcgs?

  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dan, thanks for a truly excellent, detailed show report. The last time I spoke with David McCarthy, we discussed our encounters with elephant seals (he had a run in with a Northern, I had one with a Southern). A bull Northern can weigh 3 tons, and a bull Southern can weigh 4 tons, and over short distances, they move faster than you think they can, so be alert and keep your distance!

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,611 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fantastic report, made me feel like I was there!

    it looks like you dabble way more in gold, so I'm not sure if you noticed the capped bust half inventory at the show or not. I ended up winning 3 very nice halves from the Sheridan Downey auction, the closest I got to being there.

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,824 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very comprehensive rundown. Felt like I walked the convention floor. My legs are tired. :)

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ElmerFusterpuck said:
    Fantastic report, made me feel like I was there!

    it looks like you dabble way more in gold, so I'm not sure if you noticed the capped bust half inventory at the show or not. I ended up winning 3 very nice halves from the Sheridan Downey auction, the closest I got to being there.

    I did not really pay attention to CBH inventory Eric, but congrats! They push some nice stuff through their auctions.

  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1madman said:
    Gotta say that your pictures of the Clark Gruber in the NGC holder make it look like an incredible deep orange tone. Then the second set of pictures shown by flyingal make the coin look puttied, cleaned, washed out.

    Wondering if this coin would details grade at cacg or pcgs?

    Well it's certainly not cleaned, the color is original as can be, and as you say is a deep orange tone with some magenta highlights. The "crust" on the coin is quite thick, so it appears dull with diffused lighting, and it's a bit waxy on the reverse but there's nothing that was done to deceive anyone, if I rinsed it with hot water a lot of that would probably come off with no harm including the water spot. The holder is also terrible, and I'm going to get it reholdered as the Kagin-McCarthy plate coin and it's likely to cross to PCGS after that. As far as CACG who knows, but David McCarthy calls the shots with pioneer gold, not CAC.

  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,608 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That was a great show report. That Clark Gruber piece is amazing.

  • 2windy2fish2windy2fish Posts: 779 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dan, Thank you for the top notch show report!
    Felt like i was there.

  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great report. Very well done. I got an inside glimpse of your trip and it sounded like a good one.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars

  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DeplorableDan said:

    @1madman said:
    Gotta say that your pictures of the Clark Gruber in the NGC holder make it look like an incredible deep orange tone. Then the second set of pictures shown by flyingal make the coin look puttied, cleaned, washed out.

    Wondering if this coin would details grade at cacg or pcgs?

    Well it's certainly not cleaned, the color is original as can be, and as you say is a deep orange tone with some magenta highlights. The "crust" on the coin is quite thick, so it appears dull with diffused lighting, and it's a bit waxy on the reverse but there's nothing that was done to deceive anyone, if I rinsed it with hot water a lot of that would probably come off with no harm including the water spot. The holder is also terrible, and I'm going to get it reholdered as the Kagin-McCarthy plate coin and it's likely to cross to PCGS after that. As far as CACG who knows, but David McCarthy calls the shots with pioneer gold, not CAC.

    Dan, I know you’re probably not looking for my advise, but in case you’re interested, I would also like to see this great coin in a pcgs holder. If it were my coin, I would conserve it with NGC first (ncs or whatever they call it), let them regrade it in that process. Then do the cross to pcgs in the NGC holder (don’t crack it), and consider doing cross at any grade. I think this way would give the coin its best look for pcgs to give an accurate grade. If pcgs sees even a hint of that cloudy darkness, it might raise a red flag as far as dropping it a few points or detailing it all together. My two cents, and probably not worth even that.

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1madman said:

    @DeplorableDan said:

    @1madman said:
    Gotta say that your pictures of the Clark Gruber in the NGC holder make it look like an incredible deep orange tone. Then the second set of pictures shown by flyingal make the coin look puttied, cleaned, washed out.

    Wondering if this coin would details grade at cacg or pcgs?

    Well it's certainly not cleaned, the color is original as can be, and as you say is a deep orange tone with some magenta highlights. The "crust" on the coin is quite thick, so it appears dull with diffused lighting, and it's a bit waxy on the reverse but there's nothing that was done to deceive anyone, if I rinsed it with hot water a lot of that would probably come off with no harm including the water spot. The holder is also terrible, and I'm going to get it reholdered as the Kagin-McCarthy plate coin and it's likely to cross to PCGS after that. As far as CACG who knows, but David McCarthy calls the shots with pioneer gold, not CAC.

    Dan, I know you’re probably not looking for my advise, but in case you’re interested, I would also like to see this great coin in a pcgs holder. If it were my coin, I would conserve it with NGC first (ncs or whatever they call it), let them regrade it in that process. Then do the cross to pcgs in the NGC holder (don’t crack it), and consider doing cross at any grade. I think this way would give the coin its best look for pcgs to give an accurate grade. If pcgs sees even a hint of that cloudy darkness, it might raise a red flag as far as dropping it a few points or detailing it all together. My two cents, and probably not worth even that.

    Interesting.

  • lermishlermish Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:

    @1madman said:

    @DeplorableDan said:

    @1madman said:
    Gotta say that your pictures of the Clark Gruber in the NGC holder make it look like an incredible deep orange tone. Then the second set of pictures shown by flyingal make the coin look puttied, cleaned, washed out.

    Wondering if this coin would details grade at cacg or pcgs?

    Well it's certainly not cleaned, the color is original as can be, and as you say is a deep orange tone with some magenta highlights. The "crust" on the coin is quite thick, so it appears dull with diffused lighting, and it's a bit waxy on the reverse but there's nothing that was done to deceive anyone, if I rinsed it with hot water a lot of that would probably come off with no harm including the water spot. The holder is also terrible, and I'm going to get it reholdered as the Kagin-McCarthy plate coin and it's likely to cross to PCGS after that. As far as CACG who knows, but David McCarthy calls the shots with pioneer gold, not CAC.

    Dan, I know you’re probably not looking for my advise, but in case you’re interested, I would also like to see this great coin in a pcgs holder. If it were my coin, I would conserve it with NGC first (ncs or whatever they call it), let them regrade it in that process. Then do the cross to pcgs in the NGC holder (don’t crack it), and consider doing cross at any grade. I think this way would give the coin its best look for pcgs to give an accurate grade. If pcgs sees even a hint of that cloudy darkness, it might raise a red flag as far as dropping it a few points or detailing it all together. My two cents, and probably not worth even that.

    Interesting.

    I agree. That process is not one that I would not normally consider but NCS does have a good reputation. Takes care of the plate attribution, reholder, and waterspot conservation all in one whack before getting it in its final home.

    However, I will say for @1madman , there is not any cloudy darkness on the coin. In hand, the coin is a brilliant warm orange and violet. I have never seen toning like that on a gold coin and it is absolutely fantastic (closest I have seen are some later era debased Japanese kobans but those are something like 55-60% pure) . The water spot should be removed at some point but I would wager a lot of money that the coin would cross to PCGS as is in at worst a 53 but most likely a straight cross at 55.

  • PedzolaPedzola Posts: 995 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2024 9:52AM

    Thanks for sharing. Awesome coins. Congrats on the Clark Gruber. I will make it to FUN some day. Would like to meet the whole crew. Need a big show up in Boston. B)

  • LJenkins11LJenkins11 Posts: 710 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Each of those coins are highly impressive but I love that Pikes Peak gold. Thanks for sharing.

  • dhikewhitneydhikewhitney Posts: 355 ✭✭✭

    Just wow !
    Thanks for sharing your knowledge and coins.

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,426 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great report. And awesome coins as always. I should find time to make it down to FUN someday.

    Young Numismatist/collector
    73 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 44 members and counting!
    instagram.com/klnumismatics

  • pointfivezeropointfivezero Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the excellent report, DD. I was especially interested in your HA auction viewing commentary as I was unable to attend the show but plan to bid on a few items. Thanks for the sneak peek.

    Tim

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,604 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Excellent show report. One of the best I have read on the forums.

  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,156 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What a great show report, once the food got pictured I started thinking wait, is this @ThePennyLady's thread?

    Fun read!

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What a terrific read. You writing style makes me feel like I was there- theater of the mind and all.
    Sorry about the hassle with the smoke/room fee. I am glad you fought the good fight to get that charge removed.
    And kudos to those who clapped and mocked the thief as he is being taken out in cuffs.
    There is not enough shame in our society today.

    peacockcoins

  • shishshish Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great meeting you at the show, excellent report! Your early gold is fabulous! When you're ready to add a nice seated dollar let me know. B)

    Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great report!

  • alohagaryalohagary Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭✭

    Great report

  • calgolddivercalgolddiver Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭✭✭

    great report and congratulations on some outstanding gold acquisitions !!

    Top 25 Type Set 1792 to present

    Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set

    successful BST with Ankurj, BigAl, Bullsitter, CommemKing, DCW(7), Elmerfusterpuck, Joelewis, Mach1ne, Minuteman810430, Modcrewman, Nankraut, Nederveit2, Philographer(5), Realgator, Silverpop, SurfinxHI, TomB and Yorkshireman(3)

  • coinhackcoinhack Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for taking the time to write up a wonderful report on the show. I finally had time to read it today. Gold and silver dollars are my favorites, so I really appreciate what you are putting together.

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great show report! Glad you had fun at FUN! :)

  • NicNic Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fabulous report and pics @DeplorableDan. Thank you.

    Over the years forum folks have asked about "orange peel" surfaces on proof gold. Your pic of the J-271 shows such well.

  • kazkaz Posts: 9,041 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for an outstanding report and photos!

  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 2,851 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well-written report with some lovely gold (and silver)! Good to know you received a refund from the Rosen.

    Got Crust....y gold?

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file