@BStrauss3 said:
You know our general answer to THAT, Freddie - find another board that cares, not one focused on PCGS.
You know my answer to that Strauss...if you truly don't care than be adult enough to ignore the thread so the members that do care can discuss it freely....
Freddie, Freddie, Freddie - if you haven't figured out, by now, that the vast majority of participants here couldn't give a rat's fuzzy posterior about VaultBox, it's not my job to edumicate you.
Strauss, Strauss, Strauss. Thank you! Please stop trying to educate me. You are not the kind of teacher I want in my life.😉
I suppose that we should only allow threads that the MAJORITY of forum members are interested in. That would really cut down on the number of threads.
Maybe PCGS could add a vote tally to all new threads. If, say, less than 40% of the first 25 respondents are interested in the thread, it automatically gets poofed.
The good news is that the VB threads will survive. Like CAC, nearly 100% of the forum appears to be interested. Some (most?) of them hate it, but negative interest is still interest.
Actually, no. Our hosts should allow all of the threads, at least until such time as they become personally abusive.
But, when you repeatedly start threads about a topic that generates strong negative feelings, you should fully expect strong negative responses. And shouldn't constantly whine about it, or try to get people banned for posting opposing, negative points of view, repeatedly, in response to repeated promotion, discussion, etc.
Freddie keeps starting threads that very few people actually care about, other than to criticize the product, or to grab a box of popcorn to observe the festivities, and then repeatedly complains when people join his thread to bash a product that some have very valid reasons to want to bash. For this reason alone, the mods probably should strongly consider banning future VB threads.
Many of us received the e-mails directly from VB about the very exciting Black Friday drop of held back VB 4 inventory. Only one member started a thread about it. The same member who started every other VB thread. Absolute dedication, if nothing else.
He tried and failed to establish an ability to moderate threads he starts. He (or his proxies) tried and failed to have the actual moderators ban or otherwise control posters or posts that Freddie does not like on his threads. Each and every time, that accomplished nothing aside from getting the thread shut down. Again, anyone is free to start any thread they want, but, as a distinguished educator, you are likely aware of the definition of insanity.
No one, other than you, is suggesting that Collectors Universe limit posts to PCGS content, but thanks for taking a comment to a ridiculous conclusion. OTOH, the odds of Freddie having a constructive back and forth on this forum about a product that many consider to be nothing more than a cynical, unregulated gambling vehicle that happens to use coins as its hook, is slim to none. The appropriate place for such an enlightened, vigorous exchange of all things VB is more likely Reddit, or the VB website itself.
At this point, starting related threads here really is nothing more than a form of trolling. Continuing to do it in the hope of wearing people down is unlikely to yield the desired result, given how entrenched feelings are. That said, insanity is a thing, so whatever.
TLDR and I assume I've already read it multiple times anyway. You're like a broken record, give it a rest.
**No one needed a thread about a VB retread Black Friday limited drop after they sold out, but we got one anyway. Literally, no one. **
Really? I didn’t know you spoke for everyone... Some people may actually want to discuss it, however, it is impossible with you around.
No. I speak only for myself, although I am sure there are at least a few who agree with me. A thread about a limited drop after it sells out, when the information was publicly available days ahead of time, is the very definition of a thread no one needs. Although, admittedly, I only speak for myself in saying that.
You can have any discussion you want. My understanding of how the Ignore function works is that my posts are invisible to those who have me on Ignore. So any discussions at all are the exact opposite of impossible, regardless of what anyone does or does not post. Even me. The discussion you want is only impossible because I make some valid points, and others agree with them.
Telling me to give it a rest is not an effort to facilitate a redundant discussion. It is just an effort to try to control me and my posts. I'll give it a rest when Freddie does. Not when you admonish me to.
So any topic that is already public information is unworthy of discussion. Good to know...
No. But topics that are already public information, and have been the subject of multiple other threads, the vast majority of which were shut down for one reason or another, really are unworthy of further discussion. That probably is something that's worth knowing if it was not already obvious to you.
OTOH, if it's not obvious, and you want to discuss, great! Let's discuss!!! The electronic floor is now yours.
Yeah, I wonder why they all keep getting shut down...
Maybe because it's a very polarizing product that has already been debated to death? You are an excellent example, as someone who claims to want a discussion, but has actually nothing new to say.
I didn't claim to want a discussion, but I understand that some may. However, you keep trying to shut it down because of some sort of moral superiority complex. To be honest it's very weird and sort of creepy.
I'm not trying to shut anything down at all. I have never complained to a mod about a thread, a post, or a poster. In fact, I enthusiastically participate whenever Freddie decides to start a new thread on the topic, since I happen to have a strong point of view that I want to share every bit as much as Freddie wants to share his enthusiasm for the product.
You, OTOH, both commanded me to "give it a rest" and said that "some people may actually want to discuss it." I assumed you were speaking for yourself, since it never occurred to me that you would be so presumptuous as to be speaking for others about something you had no interest in. My bad.
LOL, I'm done here. It is obvious that you have a desperate need for attention and the last word. So, after this post you can have it, but you calling me out for speaking for others is rich.
Pot meet kettle, Mr. and I quote, "No one needed a thread about a VB retread Black Friday limited drop after they sold out, but we got one anyway. Literally, no one." I on the other hand said that some may want to discuss it, and it is quite obvious that Freddie does. Not to mention, despite what you think, I tend to learn something new and/or interesting in each one of these threads.
At least one person besides Freddie bought a black Friday VB. Announcing that they were available is a public service announcement since most of us probably don't check in daily on the VB website. It's absolutely no different than someone posting that a US Mint product became available.
@BStrauss3 said:
You know our general answer to THAT, Freddie - find another board that cares, not one focused on PCGS.
You know my answer to that Strauss...if you truly don't care than be adult enough to ignore the thread so the members that do care can discuss it freely....
Freddie, Freddie, Freddie - if you haven't figured out, by now, that the vast majority of participants here couldn't give a rat's fuzzy posterior about VaultBox, it's not my job to edumicate you.
Strauss, Strauss, Strauss. Thank you! Please stop trying to educate me. You are not the kind of teacher I want in my life.😉
I suppose that we should only allow threads that the MAJORITY of forum members are interested in. That would really cut down on the number of threads.
Maybe PCGS could add a vote tally to all new threads. If, say, less than 40% of the first 25 respondents are interested in the thread, it automatically gets poofed.
The good news is that the VB threads will survive. Like CAC, nearly 100% of the forum appears to be interested. Some (most?) of them hate it, but negative interest is still interest.
Actually, no. Our hosts should allow all of the threads, at least until such time as they become personally abusive.
But, when you repeatedly start threads about a topic that generates strong negative feelings, you should fully expect strong negative responses. And shouldn't constantly whine about it, or try to get people banned for posting opposing, negative points of view, repeatedly, in response to repeated promotion, discussion, etc.
Freddie keeps starting threads that very few people actually care about, other than to criticize the product, or to grab a box of popcorn to observe the festivities, and then repeatedly complains when people join his thread to bash a product that some have very valid reasons to want to bash. For this reason alone, the mods probably should strongly consider banning future VB threads.
Many of us received the e-mails directly from VB about the very exciting Black Friday drop of held back VB 4 inventory. Only one member started a thread about it. The same member who started every other VB thread. Absolute dedication, if nothing else.
He tried and failed to establish an ability to moderate threads he starts. He (or his proxies) tried and failed to have the actual moderators ban or otherwise control posters or posts that Freddie does not like on his threads. Each and every time, that accomplished nothing aside from getting the thread shut down. Again, anyone is free to start any thread they want, but, as a distinguished educator, you are likely aware of the definition of insanity.
No one, other than you, is suggesting that Collectors Universe limit posts to PCGS content, but thanks for taking a comment to a ridiculous conclusion. OTOH, the odds of Freddie having a constructive back and forth on this forum about a product that many consider to be nothing more than a cynical, unregulated gambling vehicle that happens to use coins as its hook, is slim to none. The appropriate place for such an enlightened, vigorous exchange of all things VB is more likely Reddit, or the VB website itself.
At this point, starting related threads here really is nothing more than a form of trolling. Continuing to do it in the hope of wearing people down is unlikely to yield the desired result, given how entrenched feelings are. That said, insanity is a thing, so whatever.
TLDR and I assume I've already read it multiple times anyway. You're like a broken record, give it a rest.
**No one needed a thread about a VB retread Black Friday limited drop after they sold out, but we got one anyway. Literally, no one. **
Really? I didn’t know you spoke for everyone... Some people may actually want to discuss it, however, it is impossible with you around.
No. I speak only for myself, although I am sure there are at least a few who agree with me. A thread about a limited drop after it sells out, when the information was publicly available days ahead of time, is the very definition of a thread no one needs. Although, admittedly, I only speak for myself in saying that.
You can have any discussion you want. My understanding of how the Ignore function works is that my posts are invisible to those who have me on Ignore. So any discussions at all are the exact opposite of impossible, regardless of what anyone does or does not post. Even me. The discussion you want is only impossible because I make some valid points, and others agree with them.
Telling me to give it a rest is not an effort to facilitate a redundant discussion. It is just an effort to try to control me and my posts. I'll give it a rest when Freddie does. Not when you admonish me to.
So any topic that is already public information is unworthy of discussion. Good to know...
No. But topics that are already public information, and have been the subject of multiple other threads, the vast majority of which were shut down for one reason or another, really are unworthy of further discussion. That probably is something that's worth knowing if it was not already obvious to you.
OTOH, if it's not obvious, and you want to discuss, great! Let's discuss!!! The electronic floor is now yours.
Yeah, I wonder why they all keep getting shut down...
Maybe because it's a very polarizing product that has already been debated to death? You are an excellent example, as someone who claims to want a discussion, but has actually nothing new to say.
I didn't claim to want a discussion, but I understand that some may. However, you keep trying to shut it down because of some sort of moral superiority complex. To be honest it's very weird and sort of creepy.
I'm not trying to shut anything down at all. I have never complained to a mod about a thread, a post, or a poster. In fact, I enthusiastically participate whenever Freddie decides to start a new thread on the topic, since I happen to have a strong point of view that I want to share every bit as much as Freddie wants to share his enthusiasm for the product.
You, OTOH, both commanded me to "give it a rest" and said that "some people may actually want to discuss it." I assumed you were speaking for yourself, since it never occurred to me that you would be so presumptuous as to be speaking for others about something you had no interest in. My bad.
LOL, I'm done here. It is obvious that you have a desperate need for attention and the last word. So, after this post you can have it, but you calling me out for speaking for others is rich.
Pot meet kettle, Mr. and I quote, "No one needed a thread about a VB retread Black Friday limited drop after they sold out, but we got one anyway. Literally, no one." I on the other hand said that some may want to discuss it, and it is quite obvious that Freddie does. Not to mention, despite what you think, I tend to learn something new and/or interesting in each one of these threads.
Thank you for posting your support of discussing VB. To be clear, I am only creating VB threads when new product information becomes available and I have no desire to debate the merits of the product ad nauseam unlike NJ who is obsessed with posting criticism of me personally and the product. 🙄
This thread was created after I made my purchase on BF in an effort to alert interested members that their was a limited number of boxes still left to purchase and that VB was testing their Virtual Waiting room process that is being fully implemented for the Series 5 release. Also, I tracked the availability of the boxes and they were still available for almost 20 minutes after I posted this thread.
Ironically, NJ keeps pushing each VB thread to the top instead of ignoring the thread and letting it eventually drop to page 2 and beyond in to oblivion. 😉
Each series has sold out on day one within hours of release so there is obvious demand for this product and the PCGS graded Ultra Breaks product.😎
Also, I am not the only member creating VB threads and not ALL of my threads have been shutdown by the Mods. Furthermore, I did not create the first VB thread.😎
Finally, I have NJ on Ignore but I can still see his name when he makes a post and his post count on each thread far exceeds mine so his posts are advertising and promoting VB more than me.🤣😂
@BStrauss3 said:
You know our general answer to THAT, Freddie - find another board that cares, not one focused on PCGS.
You know my answer to that Strauss...if you truly don't care than be adult enough to ignore the thread so the members that do care can discuss it freely....
Freddie, Freddie, Freddie - if you haven't figured out, by now, that the vast majority of participants here couldn't give a rat's fuzzy posterior about VaultBox, it's not my job to edumicate you.
Strauss, Strauss, Strauss. Thank you! Please stop trying to educate me. You are not the kind of teacher I want in my life.😉
I suppose that we should only allow threads that the MAJORITY of forum members are interested in. That would really cut down on the number of threads.
Maybe PCGS could add a vote tally to all new threads. If, say, less than 40% of the first 25 respondents are interested in the thread, it automatically gets poofed.
The good news is that the VB threads will survive. Like CAC, nearly 100% of the forum appears to be interested. Some (most?) of them hate it, but negative interest is still interest.
Actually, no. Our hosts should allow all of the threads, at least until such time as they become personally abusive.
But, when you repeatedly start threads about a topic that generates strong negative feelings, you should fully expect strong negative responses. And shouldn't constantly whine about it, or try to get people banned for posting opposing, negative points of view, repeatedly, in response to repeated promotion, discussion, etc.
Freddie keeps starting threads that very few people actually care about, other than to criticize the product, or to grab a box of popcorn to observe the festivities, and then repeatedly complains when people join his thread to bash a product that some have very valid reasons to want to bash. For this reason alone, the mods probably should strongly consider banning future VB threads.
Many of us received the e-mails directly from VB about the very exciting Black Friday drop of held back VB 4 inventory. Only one member started a thread about it. The same member who started every other VB thread. Absolute dedication, if nothing else.
He tried and failed to establish an ability to moderate threads he starts. He (or his proxies) tried and failed to have the actual moderators ban or otherwise control posters or posts that Freddie does not like on his threads. Each and every time, that accomplished nothing aside from getting the thread shut down. Again, anyone is free to start any thread they want, but, as a distinguished educator, you are likely aware of the definition of insanity.
No one, other than you, is suggesting that Collectors Universe limit posts to PCGS content, but thanks for taking a comment to a ridiculous conclusion. OTOH, the odds of Freddie having a constructive back and forth on this forum about a product that many consider to be nothing more than a cynical, unregulated gambling vehicle that happens to use coins as its hook, is slim to none. The appropriate place for such an enlightened, vigorous exchange of all things VB is more likely Reddit, or the VB website itself.
At this point, starting related threads here really is nothing more than a form of trolling. Continuing to do it in the hope of wearing people down is unlikely to yield the desired result, given how entrenched feelings are. That said, insanity is a thing, so whatever.
TLDR and I assume I've already read it multiple times anyway. You're like a broken record, give it a rest.
**No one needed a thread about a VB retread Black Friday limited drop after they sold out, but we got one anyway. Literally, no one. **
Really? I didn’t know you spoke for everyone... Some people may actually want to discuss it, however, it is impossible with you around.
No. I speak only for myself, although I am sure there are at least a few who agree with me. A thread about a limited drop after it sells out, when the information was publicly available days ahead of time, is the very definition of a thread no one needs. Although, admittedly, I only speak for myself in saying that.
You can have any discussion you want. My understanding of how the Ignore function works is that my posts are invisible to those who have me on Ignore. So any discussions at all are the exact opposite of impossible, regardless of what anyone does or does not post. Even me. The discussion you want is only impossible because I make some valid points, and others agree with them.
Telling me to give it a rest is not an effort to facilitate a redundant discussion. It is just an effort to try to control me and my posts. I'll give it a rest when Freddie does. Not when you admonish me to.
So any topic that is already public information is unworthy of discussion. Good to know...
No. But topics that are already public information, and have been the subject of multiple other threads, the vast majority of which were shut down for one reason or another, really are unworthy of further discussion. That probably is something that's worth knowing if it was not already obvious to you.
OTOH, if it's not obvious, and you want to discuss, great! Let's discuss!!! The electronic floor is now yours.
Yeah, I wonder why they all keep getting shut down...
Maybe because it's a very polarizing product that has already been debated to death? You are an excellent example, as someone who claims to want a discussion, but has actually nothing new to say.
I didn't claim to want a discussion, but I understand that some may. However, you keep trying to shut it down because of some sort of moral superiority complex. To be honest it's very weird and sort of creepy.
I'm not trying to shut anything down at all. I have never complained to a mod about a thread, a post, or a poster. In fact, I enthusiastically participate whenever Freddie decides to start a new thread on the topic, since I happen to have a strong point of view that I want to share every bit as much as Freddie wants to share his enthusiasm for the product.
You, OTOH, both commanded me to "give it a rest" and said that "some people may actually want to discuss it." I assumed you were speaking for yourself, since it never occurred to me that you would be so presumptuous as to be speaking for others about something you had no interest in. My bad.
LOL, I'm done here. It is obvious that you have a desperate need for attention and the last word. So, after this post you can have it, but you calling me out for speaking for others is rich.
Pot meet kettle, Mr. and I quote, "No one needed a thread about a VB retread Black Friday limited drop after they sold out, but we got one anyway. Literally, no one." I on the other hand said that some may want to discuss it, and it is quite obvious that Freddie does. Not to mention, despite what you think, I tend to learn something new and/or interesting in each one of these threads.
Thank you for posting your support of discussing VB. To be clear, I am only creating VB threads when new product information becomes available and I have no desire to debate the merits of the product ad nauseam unlike NJ who is obsessed with posting criticism of me personally and the product. 🙄
This thread was created after I made my purchase on BF in an effort to alert interested members that their was a limited number of boxes still left to purchase and that VB was testing their Virtual Waiting room process that is being fully implemented for the Series 5 release. Also, I tracked the availability of the boxes and they were still available for almost 20 minutes after I posted this thread.
Ironically, NJ keeps pushing each VB thread to the top instead of ignoring the thread and letting it eventually drop to page 2 and beyond in to oblivion. 😉
Each series has sold out on day one within hours of release so there is obvious demand for this product and the PCGS graded Ultra Breaks product.😎
Also, I am not the only member creating VB threads and not ALL of my threads have been shutdown by the Mods. Furthermore, I did not create the first VB thread.😎
Finally, I have NJ on Ignore but I can still see his name when he makes a post and his post count on each thread far exceeds mine so his posts are advertising and promoting VB more than me.🤣😂
@BStrauss3 said:
You know our general answer to THAT, Freddie - find another board that cares, not one focused on PCGS.
You know my answer to that Strauss...if you truly don't care than be adult enough to ignore the thread so the members that do care can discuss it freely....
Freddie, Freddie, Freddie - if you haven't figured out, by now, that the vast majority of participants here couldn't give a rat's fuzzy posterior about VaultBox, it's not my job to edumicate you.
Strauss, Strauss, Strauss. Thank you! Please stop trying to educate me. You are not the kind of teacher I want in my life.😉
I suppose that we should only allow threads that the MAJORITY of forum members are interested in. That would really cut down on the number of threads.
Maybe PCGS could add a vote tally to all new threads. If, say, less than 40% of the first 25 respondents are interested in the thread, it automatically gets poofed.
The good news is that the VB threads will survive. Like CAC, nearly 100% of the forum appears to be interested. Some (most?) of them hate it, but negative interest is still interest.
Actually, no. Our hosts should allow all of the threads, at least until such time as they become personally abusive.
But, when you repeatedly start threads about a topic that generates strong negative feelings, you should fully expect strong negative responses. And shouldn't constantly whine about it, or try to get people banned for posting opposing, negative points of view, repeatedly, in response to repeated promotion, discussion, etc.
Freddie keeps starting threads that very few people actually care about, other than to criticize the product, or to grab a box of popcorn to observe the festivities, and then repeatedly complains when people join his thread to bash a product that some have very valid reasons to want to bash. For this reason alone, the mods probably should strongly consider banning future VB threads.
Many of us received the e-mails directly from VB about the very exciting Black Friday drop of held back VB 4 inventory. Only one member started a thread about it. The same member who started every other VB thread. Absolute dedication, if nothing else.
He tried and failed to establish an ability to moderate threads he starts. He (or his proxies) tried and failed to have the actual moderators ban or otherwise control posters or posts that Freddie does not like on his threads. Each and every time, that accomplished nothing aside from getting the thread shut down. Again, anyone is free to start any thread they want, but, as a distinguished educator, you are likely aware of the definition of insanity.
No one, other than you, is suggesting that Collectors Universe limit posts to PCGS content, but thanks for taking a comment to a ridiculous conclusion. OTOH, the odds of Freddie having a constructive back and forth on this forum about a product that many consider to be nothing more than a cynical, unregulated gambling vehicle that happens to use coins as its hook, is slim to none. The appropriate place for such an enlightened, vigorous exchange of all things VB is more likely Reddit, or the VB website itself.
At this point, starting related threads here really is nothing more than a form of trolling. Continuing to do it in the hope of wearing people down is unlikely to yield the desired result, given how entrenched feelings are. That said, insanity is a thing, so whatever.
TLDR and I assume I've already read it multiple times anyway. You're like a broken record, give it a rest.
**No one needed a thread about a VB retread Black Friday limited drop after they sold out, but we got one anyway. Literally, no one. **
Really? I didn’t know you spoke for everyone... Some people may actually want to discuss it, however, it is impossible with you around.
No. I speak only for myself, although I am sure there are at least a few who agree with me. A thread about a limited drop after it sells out, when the information was publicly available days ahead of time, is the very definition of a thread no one needs. Although, admittedly, I only speak for myself in saying that.
You can have any discussion you want. My understanding of how the Ignore function works is that my posts are invisible to those who have me on Ignore. So any discussions at all are the exact opposite of impossible, regardless of what anyone does or does not post. Even me. The discussion you want is only impossible because I make some valid points, and others agree with them.
Telling me to give it a rest is not an effort to facilitate a redundant discussion. It is just an effort to try to control me and my posts. I'll give it a rest when Freddie does. Not when you admonish me to.
So any topic that is already public information is unworthy of discussion. Good to know...
No. But topics that are already public information, and have been the subject of multiple other threads, the vast majority of which were shut down for one reason or another, really are unworthy of further discussion. That probably is something that's worth knowing if it was not already obvious to you.
OTOH, if it's not obvious, and you want to discuss, great! Let's discuss!!! The electronic floor is now yours.
Yeah, I wonder why they all keep getting shut down...
Maybe because it's a very polarizing product that has already been debated to death? You are an excellent example, as someone who claims to want a discussion, but has actually nothing new to say.
I didn't claim to want a discussion, but I understand that some may. However, you keep trying to shut it down because of some sort of moral superiority complex. To be honest it's very weird and sort of creepy.
I'm not trying to shut anything down at all. I have never complained to a mod about a thread, a post, or a poster. In fact, I enthusiastically participate whenever Freddie decides to start a new thread on the topic, since I happen to have a strong point of view that I want to share every bit as much as Freddie wants to share his enthusiasm for the product.
You, OTOH, both commanded me to "give it a rest" and said that "some people may actually want to discuss it." I assumed you were speaking for yourself, since it never occurred to me that you would be so presumptuous as to be speaking for others about something you had no interest in. My bad.
LOL, I'm done here. It is obvious that you have a desperate need for attention and the last word. So, after this post you can have it, but you calling me out for speaking for others is rich.
Pot meet kettle, Mr. and I quote, "No one needed a thread about a VB retread Black Friday limited drop after they sold out, but we got one anyway. Literally, no one." I on the other hand said that some may want to discuss it, and it is quite obvious that Freddie does. Not to mention, despite what you think, I tend to learn something new and/or interesting in each one of these threads.
Excellent. As long as you are open to learning, I will keep trying to educate you.
These are not interesting new coin collector products. They are cynical, unregulated gambling vehicles, with no guarantee that what they promise will be delivered, and no independent third party supervision of the distribution of the prizes, regardless of what is implied by the statement that NGC "randomizes" placement in boxes and sealing of boxes.
Coins just happen to be the product inside the boxes, rather than cash, to avoid state regulation.
Like a magician mysteriously sawing a lady in half and putting her back together, with no blood and no physical therapy required after the ordeal, these guys take people's money, wave a wand, and return a fraction of it while convincing the audience they are having fun. It's not real. It's a magic trick. When it is over, your money is gone and in its place are a few coins worth a fraction of the missing money, with precious few exceptions.
@jmlanzaf said:
At least one person besides Freddie bought a black Friday VB. Announcing that they were available is a public service announcement since most of us probably don't check in daily on the VB website. It's absolutely no different than someone posting that a US Mint product became available.
Sure, but Freddie provided no service. VB doesn't restrict its marketing to people obsessively checking its website. Multiple e-mails go out in advance of everything it does, including the magical reappearance of rescued "unbotted" Series 4 VBs on Black Friday.
No one getting in a virtual waiting room after Freddie started his thread after checking out likely received anything, given how few they put up for sale.
VB claimed they were testing their waiting room for future releases. If true, that would require their site getting slammed at the appointed date and time, which is what certainly must have happened.
Freddie didn't share anything until he was done, although he had the information necessary to provide the claimed "public service" nearly two days earlier. Which is fine. But again, then who needs the thread?
No doubt the other person buying received the same e-mail everyone else on VB's list received, and also checked out before Freddie posted. Not a single person here reported learning about this from Freddie, being interested, and then going online and successfully making a purchase. Yet, we are already on our second page talking about it.
Mission accomplished, but nothing new learned, and not a single opinion changed about VB. No public service. Self indulgent trolling of the forum.
@BStrauss3 said:
You know our general answer to THAT, Freddie - find another board that cares, not one focused on PCGS.
You know my answer to that Strauss...if you truly don't care than be adult enough to ignore the thread so the members that do care can discuss it freely....
Freddie, Freddie, Freddie - if you haven't figured out, by now, that the vast majority of participants here couldn't give a rat's fuzzy posterior about VaultBox, it's not my job to edumicate you.
Strauss, Strauss, Strauss. Thank you! Please stop trying to educate me. You are not the kind of teacher I want in my life.😉
I suppose that we should only allow threads that the MAJORITY of forum members are interested in. That would really cut down on the number of threads.
Maybe PCGS could add a vote tally to all new threads. If, say, less than 40% of the first 25 respondents are interested in the thread, it automatically gets poofed.
The good news is that the VB threads will survive. Like CAC, nearly 100% of the forum appears to be interested. Some (most?) of them hate it, but negative interest is still interest.
Actually, no. Our hosts should allow all of the threads, at least until such time as they become personally abusive.
But, when you repeatedly start threads about a topic that generates strong negative feelings, you should fully expect strong negative responses. And shouldn't constantly whine about it, or try to get people banned for posting opposing, negative points of view, repeatedly, in response to repeated promotion, discussion, etc.
Freddie keeps starting threads that very few people actually care about, other than to criticize the product, or to grab a box of popcorn to observe the festivities, and then repeatedly complains when people join his thread to bash a product that some have very valid reasons to want to bash. For this reason alone, the mods probably should strongly consider banning future VB threads.
Many of us received the e-mails directly from VB about the very exciting Black Friday drop of held back VB 4 inventory. Only one member started a thread about it. The same member who started every other VB thread. Absolute dedication, if nothing else.
He tried and failed to establish an ability to moderate threads he starts. He (or his proxies) tried and failed to have the actual moderators ban or otherwise control posters or posts that Freddie does not like on his threads. Each and every time, that accomplished nothing aside from getting the thread shut down. Again, anyone is free to start any thread they want, but, as a distinguished educator, you are likely aware of the definition of insanity.
No one, other than you, is suggesting that Collectors Universe limit posts to PCGS content, but thanks for taking a comment to a ridiculous conclusion. OTOH, the odds of Freddie having a constructive back and forth on this forum about a product that many consider to be nothing more than a cynical, unregulated gambling vehicle that happens to use coins as its hook, is slim to none. The appropriate place for such an enlightened, vigorous exchange of all things VB is more likely Reddit, or the VB website itself.
At this point, starting related threads here really is nothing more than a form of trolling. Continuing to do it in the hope of wearing people down is unlikely to yield the desired result, given how entrenched feelings are. That said, insanity is a thing, so whatever.
TLDR and I assume I've already read it multiple times anyway. You're like a broken record, give it a rest.
**No one needed a thread about a VB retread Black Friday limited drop after they sold out, but we got one anyway. Literally, no one. **
Really? I didn’t know you spoke for everyone... Some people may actually want to discuss it, however, it is impossible with you around.
No. I speak only for myself, although I am sure there are at least a few who agree with me. A thread about a limited drop after it sells out, when the information was publicly available days ahead of time, is the very definition of a thread no one needs. Although, admittedly, I only speak for myself in saying that.
You can have any discussion you want. My understanding of how the Ignore function works is that my posts are invisible to those who have me on Ignore. So any discussions at all are the exact opposite of impossible, regardless of what anyone does or does not post. Even me. The discussion you want is only impossible because I make some valid points, and others agree with them.
Telling me to give it a rest is not an effort to facilitate a redundant discussion. It is just an effort to try to control me and my posts. I'll give it a rest when Freddie does. Not when you admonish me to.
So any topic that is already public information is unworthy of discussion. Good to know...
No. But topics that are already public information, and have been the subject of multiple other threads, the vast majority of which were shut down for one reason or another, really are unworthy of further discussion. That probably is something that's worth knowing if it was not already obvious to you.
OTOH, if it's not obvious, and you want to discuss, great! Let's discuss!!! The electronic floor is now yours.
Yeah, I wonder why they all keep getting shut down...
Maybe because it's a very polarizing product that has already been debated to death? You are an excellent example, as someone who claims to want a discussion, but has actually nothing new to say.
I didn't claim to want a discussion, but I understand that some may. However, you keep trying to shut it down because of some sort of moral superiority complex. To be honest it's very weird and sort of creepy.
I'm not trying to shut anything down at all. I have never complained to a mod about a thread, a post, or a poster. In fact, I enthusiastically participate whenever Freddie decides to start a new thread on the topic, since I happen to have a strong point of view that I want to share every bit as much as Freddie wants to share his enthusiasm for the product.
You, OTOH, both commanded me to "give it a rest" and said that "some people may actually want to discuss it." I assumed you were speaking for yourself, since it never occurred to me that you would be so presumptuous as to be speaking for others about something you had no interest in. My bad.
LOL, I'm done here. It is obvious that you have a desperate need for attention and the last word. So, after this post you can have it, but you calling me out for speaking for others is rich.
Pot meet kettle, Mr. and I quote, "No one needed a thread about a VB retread Black Friday limited drop after they sold out, but we got one anyway. Literally, no one." I on the other hand said that some may want to discuss it, and it is quite obvious that Freddie does. Not to mention, despite what you think, I tend to learn something new and/or interesting in each one of these threads.
Thank you for posting your support of discussing VB. To be clear, I am only creating VB threads when new product information becomes available and I have no desire to debate the merits of the product ad nauseam unlike NJ who is obsessed with posting criticism of me personally and the product. 🙄
This thread was created after I made my purchase on BF in an effort to alert interested members that their was a limited number of boxes still left to purchase and that VB was testing their Virtual Waiting room process that is being fully implemented for the Series 5 release. Also, I tracked the availability of the boxes and they were still available for almost 20 minutes after I posted this thread.
Ironically, NJ keeps pushing each VB thread to the top instead of ignoring the thread and letting it eventually drop to page 2 and beyond in to oblivion. 😉
Each series has sold out on day one within hours of release so there is obvious demand for this product and the PCGS graded Ultra Breaks product.😎
Also, I am not the only member creating VB threads and not ALL of my threads have been shutdown by the Mods. Furthermore, I did not create the first VB thread.😎
Finally, I have NJ on Ignore but I can still see his name when he makes a post and his post count on each thread far exceeds mine so his posts are advertising and promoting VB more than me.🤣😂
@BStrauss3 said:
You know our general answer to THAT, Freddie - find another board that cares, not one focused on PCGS.
You know my answer to that Strauss...if you truly don't care than be adult enough to ignore the thread so the members that do care can discuss it freely....
Freddie, Freddie, Freddie - if you haven't figured out, by now, that the vast majority of participants here couldn't give a rat's fuzzy posterior about VaultBox, it's not my job to edumicate you.
Strauss, Strauss, Strauss. Thank you! Please stop trying to educate me. You are not the kind of teacher I want in my life.😉
I suppose that we should only allow threads that the MAJORITY of forum members are interested in. That would really cut down on the number of threads.
Maybe PCGS could add a vote tally to all new threads. If, say, less than 40% of the first 25 respondents are interested in the thread, it automatically gets poofed.
The good news is that the VB threads will survive. Like CAC, nearly 100% of the forum appears to be interested. Some (most?) of them hate it, but negative interest is still interest.
Actually, no. Our hosts should allow all of the threads, at least until such time as they become personally abusive.
But, when you repeatedly start threads about a topic that generates strong negative feelings, you should fully expect strong negative responses. And shouldn't constantly whine about it, or try to get people banned for posting opposing, negative points of view, repeatedly, in response to repeated promotion, discussion, etc.
Freddie keeps starting threads that very few people actually care about, other than to criticize the product, or to grab a box of popcorn to observe the festivities, and then repeatedly complains when people join his thread to bash a product that some have very valid reasons to want to bash. For this reason alone, the mods probably should strongly consider banning future VB threads.
Many of us received the e-mails directly from VB about the very exciting Black Friday drop of held back VB 4 inventory. Only one member started a thread about it. The same member who started every other VB thread. Absolute dedication, if nothing else.
He tried and failed to establish an ability to moderate threads he starts. He (or his proxies) tried and failed to have the actual moderators ban or otherwise control posters or posts that Freddie does not like on his threads. Each and every time, that accomplished nothing aside from getting the thread shut down. Again, anyone is free to start any thread they want, but, as a distinguished educator, you are likely aware of the definition of insanity.
No one, other than you, is suggesting that Collectors Universe limit posts to PCGS content, but thanks for taking a comment to a ridiculous conclusion. OTOH, the odds of Freddie having a constructive back and forth on this forum about a product that many consider to be nothing more than a cynical, unregulated gambling vehicle that happens to use coins as its hook, is slim to none. The appropriate place for such an enlightened, vigorous exchange of all things VB is more likely Reddit, or the VB website itself.
At this point, starting related threads here really is nothing more than a form of trolling. Continuing to do it in the hope of wearing people down is unlikely to yield the desired result, given how entrenched feelings are. That said, insanity is a thing, so whatever.
TLDR and I assume I've already read it multiple times anyway. You're like a broken record, give it a rest.
**No one needed a thread about a VB retread Black Friday limited drop after they sold out, but we got one anyway. Literally, no one. **
Really? I didn’t know you spoke for everyone... Some people may actually want to discuss it, however, it is impossible with you around.
No. I speak only for myself, although I am sure there are at least a few who agree with me. A thread about a limited drop after it sells out, when the information was publicly available days ahead of time, is the very definition of a thread no one needs. Although, admittedly, I only speak for myself in saying that.
You can have any discussion you want. My understanding of how the Ignore function works is that my posts are invisible to those who have me on Ignore. So any discussions at all are the exact opposite of impossible, regardless of what anyone does or does not post. Even me. The discussion you want is only impossible because I make some valid points, and others agree with them.
Telling me to give it a rest is not an effort to facilitate a redundant discussion. It is just an effort to try to control me and my posts. I'll give it a rest when Freddie does. Not when you admonish me to.
So any topic that is already public information is unworthy of discussion. Good to know...
No. But topics that are already public information, and have been the subject of multiple other threads, the vast majority of which were shut down for one reason or another, really are unworthy of further discussion. That probably is something that's worth knowing if it was not already obvious to you.
OTOH, if it's not obvious, and you want to discuss, great! Let's discuss!!! The electronic floor is now yours.
Yeah, I wonder why they all keep getting shut down...
Maybe because it's a very polarizing product that has already been debated to death? You are an excellent example, as someone who claims to want a discussion, but has actually nothing new to say.
I didn't claim to want a discussion, but I understand that some may. However, you keep trying to shut it down because of some sort of moral superiority complex. To be honest it's very weird and sort of creepy.
I'm not trying to shut anything down at all. I have never complained to a mod about a thread, a post, or a poster. In fact, I enthusiastically participate whenever Freddie decides to start a new thread on the topic, since I happen to have a strong point of view that I want to share every bit as much as Freddie wants to share his enthusiasm for the product.
You, OTOH, both commanded me to "give it a rest" and said that "some people may actually want to discuss it." I assumed you were speaking for yourself, since it never occurred to me that you would be so presumptuous as to be speaking for others about something you had no interest in. My bad.
LOL, I'm done here. It is obvious that you have a desperate need for attention and the last word. So, after this post you can have it, but you calling me out for speaking for others is rich.
Pot meet kettle, Mr. and I quote, "No one needed a thread about a VB retread Black Friday limited drop after they sold out, but we got one anyway. Literally, no one." I on the other hand said that some may want to discuss it, and it is quite obvious that Freddie does. Not to mention, despite what you think, I tend to learn something new and/or interesting in each one of these threads.
Thank you for posting your support of discussing VB. To be clear, I am only creating VB threads when new product information becomes available and I have no desire to debate the merits of the product ad nauseam unlike NJ who is obsessed with posting criticism of me personally and the product. 🙄
This thread was created after I made my purchase on BF in an effort to alert interested members that their was a limited number of boxes still left to purchase and that VB was testing their Virtual Waiting room process that is being fully implemented for the Series 5 release. Also, I tracked the availability of the boxes and they were still available for almost 20 minutes after I posted this thread.
Ironically, NJ keeps pushing each VB thread to the top instead of ignoring the thread and letting it eventually drop to page 2 and beyond in to oblivion. 😉
Each series has sold out on day one within hours of release so there is obvious demand for this product and the PCGS graded Ultra Breaks product.😎
Also, I am not the only member creating VB threads and not ALL of my threads have been shutdown by the Mods. Furthermore, I did not create the first VB thread.😎
Finally, I have NJ on Ignore but I can still see his name when he makes a post and his post count on each thread far exceeds mine so his posts are advertising and promoting VB more than me.🤣😂
Just stating the cold hard FACTS....😎
Bump for NJ. Lol
Yay!!!!!!!!!!! TTT 🤣😂😎 🤣😂😎 🤣😂😎 🤣😂😎
Smokin!!!!!!
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
PENAL CODE
TITLE 10. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY, AND MORALS
CHAPTER 47. GAMBLING
Sec. 47.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Bet" means an agreement to win or lose something of value solely or partially by chance. A bet does not include:
(A) contracts of indemnity or guaranty, or life, health, property, or accident insurance;
(B) an offer of a prize, award, or compensation to the actual contestants in a bona fide contest for the determination of skill, speed, strength, or endurance or to the owners of animals, vehicles, watercraft, or aircraft entered in a contest; or
(C) an offer of merchandise, with a value not greater than $25, made by the proprietor of a bona fide carnival contest conducted at a carnival sponsored by a nonprofit religious, fraternal, school, law enforcement, youth, agricultural, or civic group, including any nonprofit agricultural or civic group incorporated by the state before 1955, if the person to receive the merchandise from the proprietor is the person who performs the carnival contest.
(7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
Sec. 47.03. GAMBLING PROMOTION. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly does any of the following acts:
(5) for gain, sets up or promotes any lottery or sells or offers to sell or knowingly possesses for transfer, or transfers any card, stub, ticket, check, or other device designed to serve as evidence of participation in any lottery.
(b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
PENAL CODE
TITLE 10. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY, AND MORALS
CHAPTER 47. GAMBLING
Sec. 47.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Bet" means an agreement to win or lose something of value solely or partially by chance. A bet does not include:
(A) contracts of indemnity or guaranty, or life, health, property, or accident insurance;
(B) an offer of a prize, award, or compensation to the actual contestants in a bona fide contest for the determination of skill, speed, strength, or endurance or to the owners of animals, vehicles, watercraft, or aircraft entered in a contest; or
(C) an offer of merchandise, with a value not greater than $25, made by the proprietor of a bona fide carnival contest conducted at a carnival sponsored by a nonprofit religious, fraternal, school, law enforcement, youth, agricultural, or civic group, including any nonprofit agricultural or civic group incorporated by the state before 1955, if the person to receive the merchandise from the proprietor is the person who performs the carnival contest.
(7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
Sec. 47.03. GAMBLING PROMOTION. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly does any of the following acts:
(5) for gain, sets up or promotes any lottery or sells or offers to sell or knowingly possesses for transfer, or transfers any card, stub, ticket, check, or other device designed to serve as evidence of participation in any lottery.
(b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
And yet these, sports card boxes, etc., escape state regulation, notwithstanding the blatant gambling aspect to the them. These clearly do not fall into that definition, likely because they deliver something of value to everyone.
I never suggested these guys, VB in particular, were violating any laws. From Day One, I HAVE been suggesting that a careful reading of their disclosures provides them ample wiggle room to screw people over.
Depending on how you define "screwing over," I believe they have been doing just that from the very beginning. Whether it's announcing sell outs when they have literally hundreds of boxes sitting in inventory, placing winning boxes in the hands of promoters and influencers while claiming everything is randomized and they have no way to know who is getting what, or claiming streamed pulls were mere simulations, without ever showing how opened boxes went back to NGC for resealing, re-randomizing, and redistribution.
So, whatever it is, I don't think it is illegal, and I also don't think it is worth promotion here. Which is why I am committed to sharing my views whenever others scratch the itch to promote (err, discuss).
I’m tired of all the gimmicks. I long for the old days when everything was raw ( raw wasn’t even a numismatic term) and we got screwed on every other thing we bought.
@NJCoin oh, it's almost certainly illegal. The general description of a lottery is Chance, Consideration, and Something of value. Just because everyone wins a prize doesn't change that.
7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
However, whether anyone would care to prosecute it is a different story. The California Attorney General has other fish to fry.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 said: @NJCoin oh, it's almost certainly illegal. The general description of a lottery is Chance, Consideration, and Something of value. Just because everyone wins a prize doesn't change that.
7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
However, whether anyone would care to prosecute it is a different story. The California Attorney General has other fish to fry.
I believe you are wrong and unless you are a civil attorney I suggest you cease and desist with your accusations. Your opinion and interpretation of the data you present are suspect.🙄
VaultBox is part of the well-known coin dealer Minshull Trading. Also, I would think the attorneys representing NGC and PCGS would have performed their due diligence before agreeing to do business with VB and Ultra Breaks respectively. 😎
@BStrauss3 said: @NJCoin oh, it's almost certainly illegal. The general description of a lottery is Chance, Consideration, and Something of value. Just because everyone wins a prize doesn't change that.
7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
However, whether anyone would care to prosecute it is a different story. The California Attorney General has other fish to fry.
I understand, and in principle I agree with you.
But, sports card breaks have been a thing for a long time now. If they have even been challenged, those challenges have gone nowhere, and sports card breaks are now available everywhere.
California has a pretty intense regulatory environment, and these guys are not exactly low profile. This would be low hanging fruit for the regulators if VB was, in fact illegal. Millions of dollars are now involved after 4 rounds and counting. I honestly don't think this would be under California's radar.
My bet would be that the fact that the lottery ticket is embedded within the product allows them to skirt the prohibition against running a private, unsupervised lottery.
@BStrauss3 said: @NJCoin oh, it's almost certainly illegal. The general description of a lottery is Chance, Consideration, and Something of value. Just because everyone wins a prize doesn't change that.
7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
However, whether anyone would care to prosecute it is a different story. The California Attorney General has other fish to fry.
I believe you are wrong and unless you are a civil attorney I suggest you cease and desist with your accusations. Your opinion and interpretation of the data you present are suspect.🙄
VaultBox is part of the well-known coin dealer Minshull Trading. Also, I would think the attorneys representing NGC and PCGS would have performed their due diligence before agreeing to do business with VB and Ultra Breaks respectively. 😎
I agree with the fact that TPGs, now owned by deep pocketed private equity, would conduct appropriate due diligence with respect to legality before getting involved.
That said, the fact that VB fully discloses that they might be screwing people doesn't make it right, even if it's not illegal. And suggesting that the fact that being a well-known coin dealer inoculates anyone from engaging in wrongdoing is ridiculous on its face. There are plenty of stories of large, well know dealers having all sorts of legal issues.
@BStrauss3 said: @NJCoin oh, it's almost certainly illegal. The general description of a lottery is Chance, Consideration, and Something of value. Just because everyone wins a prize doesn't change that.
7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
However, whether anyone would care to prosecute it is a different story. The California Attorney General has other fish to fry.
I believe you are wrong and unless you are a civil attorney I suggest you cease and desist with your accusations. Your opinion and interpretation of the data you present are suspect.🙄
VaultBox is part of the well-known coin dealer Minshull Trading. Also, I would think the attorneys representing NGC and PCGS would have performed their due diligence before agreeing to do business with VB and Ultra Breaks respectively. 😎
I had this discussion with @BStrauss3 before. I'm not sure he's wrong. Clearly, there is either a loop hole or prosecutorial indifference as mystery boxes have been around for decades. But it is worth noting that eBay does not allow mystery boxes for reasons similar to those that BStrauss lays out:
@JimTyler said:
This really chaps my ass. I had a comment posted then edited because I had typed bd instead of bid now it needs approval before they will post it.
That's a bug. They never get approved. It's gone forever
@BStrauss3 said: @NJCoin oh, it's almost certainly illegal. The general description of a lottery is Chance, Consideration, and Something of value. Just because everyone wins a prize doesn't change that.
7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
However, whether anyone would care to prosecute it is a different story. The California Attorney General has other fish to fry.
I believe you are wrong and unless you are a civil attorney I suggest you cease and desist with your accusations. Your opinion and interpretation of the data you present are suspect.🙄
VaultBox is part of the well-known coin dealer Minshull Trading. Also, I would think the attorneys representing NGC and PCGS would have performed their due diligence before agreeing to do business with VB and Ultra Breaks respectively. 😎
I had this discussion with @BStrauss3 before. I'm not sure he's wrong. Clearly, there is either a loop hole or prosecutorial indifference as mystery boxes have been around for decades. But it is worth noting that eBay does not allow mystery boxes for reasons similar to those that BStrauss lays out:
@JimTyler said:
This really chaps my ass. I had a comment posted then edited because I had typed bd instead of bid now it needs approval before they will post it.
That's a bug. They never get approved. It's gone forever
I actually had a comment several months ago that was held back for approval then posted a few days later.
@BStrauss3 said: @NJCoin oh, it's almost certainly illegal. The general description of a lottery is Chance, Consideration, and Something of value. Just because everyone wins a prize doesn't change that.
7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
However, whether anyone would care to prosecute it is a different story. The California Attorney General has other fish to fry.
I believe you are wrong and unless you are a civil attorney I suggest you cease and desist with your accusations. Your opinion and interpretation of the data you present are suspect.🙄
VaultBox is part of the well-known coin dealer Minshull Trading. Also, I would think the attorneys representing NGC and PCGS would have performed their due diligence before agreeing to do business with VB and Ultra Breaks respectively. 😎
I agree with the fact that TPGs, now owned by deep pocketed private equity, would conduct appropriate due diligence with respect to legality before getting involved.
That said, the fact that VB fully discloses that they might be screwing people doesn't make it right, even if it's not illegal. And suggesting that the fact that being a well-known coin dealer inoculates anyone from engaging in wrongdoing is ridiculous on its face. There are plenty of stories of large, well know dealers having all sorts of legal issues.
There is a reason why they are not advertising the retail values of the high ticket winning items.
The worst that would happen is that a State would tell them to knock it off. They can plead ignorance on the various State laws. It would never end up in a legal proceeding.
@JimTyler said:
This really chaps my ass. I had a comment posted then edited because I had typed bd instead of bid now it needs approval before they will post it.
That's a bug. They never get approved. It's gone forever
I actually had a comment several months ago that was held back for approval then posted a few days later.
That's interesting. I've had dozens of comments poof and then never return, as have most forum members. It's actually been better in the last year or so, but it does occasionally happen.
@BStrauss3 said: @NJCoin oh, it's almost certainly illegal. The general description of a lottery is Chance, Consideration, and Something of value. Just because everyone wins a prize doesn't change that.
7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
However, whether anyone would care to prosecute it is a different story. The California Attorney General has other fish to fry.
I believe you are wrong and unless you are a civil attorney I suggest you cease and desist with your accusations. Your opinion and interpretation of the data you present are suspect.🙄
VaultBox is part of the well-known coin dealer Minshull Trading. Also, I would think the attorneys representing NGC and PCGS would have performed their due diligence before agreeing to do business with VB and Ultra Breaks respectively. 😎
I agree with the fact that TPGs, now owned by deep pocketed private equity, would conduct appropriate due diligence with respect to legality before getting involved.
That said, the fact that VB fully discloses that they might be screwing people doesn't make it right, even if it's not illegal. And suggesting that the fact that being a well-known coin dealer inoculates anyone from engaging in wrongdoing is ridiculous on its face. There are plenty of stories of large, well know dealers having all sorts of legal issues.
There is a reason why they are not advertising the retail values of the high ticket winning items.
The worst that would happen is that a State would tell them to knock it off. They can plead ignorance on the various State laws. It would never end up in a legal proceeding.
actually they are advertising the retail values. There's a $50,000 price tag on the 65 HR $20 on their website.
@BStrauss3 said: @NJCoin oh, it's almost certainly illegal. The general description of a lottery is Chance, Consideration, and Something of value. Just because everyone wins a prize doesn't change that.
7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
However, whether anyone would care to prosecute it is a different story. The California Attorney General has other fish to fry.
I believe you are wrong and unless you are a civil attorney I suggest you cease and desist with your accusations. Your opinion and interpretation of the data you present are suspect.🙄
VaultBox is part of the well-known coin dealer Minshull Trading. Also, I would think the attorneys representing NGC and PCGS would have performed their due diligence before agreeing to do business with VB and Ultra Breaks respectively. 😎
I agree with the fact that TPGs, now owned by deep pocketed private equity, would conduct appropriate due diligence with respect to legality before getting involved.
That said, the fact that VB fully discloses that they might be screwing people doesn't make it right, even if it's not illegal. And suggesting that the fact that being a well-known coin dealer inoculates anyone from engaging in wrongdoing is ridiculous on its face. There are plenty of stories of large, well know dealers having all sorts of legal issues.
There is a reason why they are not advertising the retail values of the high ticket winning items.
The worst that would happen is that a State would tell them to knock it off. They can plead ignorance on the various State laws. It would never end up in a legal proceeding.
actually they are advertising the retail values. There's a $50,000 price tag on the 65 HR $20 on their website.
@BStrauss3 said: @NJCoin oh, it's almost certainly illegal. The general description of a lottery is Chance, Consideration, and Something of value. Just because everyone wins a prize doesn't change that.
7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
However, whether anyone would care to prosecute it is a different story. The California Attorney General has other fish to fry.
I believe you are wrong and unless you are a civil attorney I suggest you cease and desist with your accusations. Your opinion and interpretation of the data you present are suspect.🙄
VaultBox is part of the well-known coin dealer Minshull Trading. Also, I would think the attorneys representing NGC and PCGS would have performed their due diligence before agreeing to do business with VB and Ultra Breaks respectively. 😎
I agree with the fact that TPGs, now owned by deep pocketed private equity, would conduct appropriate due diligence with respect to legality before getting involved.
That said, the fact that VB fully discloses that they might be screwing people doesn't make it right, even if it's not illegal. And suggesting that the fact that being a well-known coin dealer inoculates anyone from engaging in wrongdoing is ridiculous on its face. There are plenty of stories of large, well know dealers having all sorts of legal issues.
There is a reason why they are not advertising the retail values of the high ticket winning items.
The worst that would happen is that a State would tell them to knock it off. They can plead ignorance on the various State laws. It would never end up in a legal proceeding.
actually they are advertising the retail values. There's a $50,000 price tag on the 65 HR $20 on their website.
VB is advertising their instant offer which is more of a wholesale price. They are NOT advertising a retail price.
@spacehayduke said:
I wonder which influencer will get the $50k coin in VB5 - can't wait to see the YT vid................
Yup. But, nowadays, they seem to be smart enough to keep it on the down low. Not doing a reveal right away also serves to support secondary market values for unopened boxes, which supports flippers, which in turn drives early sellouts.
Regardless, after what they did at the launch, I'd never trust them. No matter what they said they were doing, no matter what kind of prizes they dangle in front of me, and no matter how they price their precious randomized sealed treasures. As far as I'm concerned, the Freddies of the world can have all the "fun" to themselves.
@BStrauss3 said: @NJCoin oh, it's almost certainly illegal. The general description of a lottery is Chance, Consideration, and Something of value. Just because everyone wins a prize doesn't change that.
7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
However, whether anyone would care to prosecute it is a different story. The California Attorney General has other fish to fry.
I believe you are wrong and unless you are a civil attorney I suggest you cease and desist with your accusations. Your opinion and interpretation of the data you present are suspect.🙄
VaultBox is part of the well-known coin dealer Minshull Trading. Also, I would think the attorneys representing NGC and PCGS would have performed their due diligence before agreeing to do business with VB and Ultra Breaks respectively. 😎
I agree with the fact that TPGs, now owned by deep pocketed private equity, would conduct appropriate due diligence with respect to legality before getting involved.
That said, the fact that VB fully discloses that they might be screwing people doesn't make it right, even if it's not illegal. And suggesting that the fact that being a well-known coin dealer inoculates anyone from engaging in wrongdoing is ridiculous on its face. There are plenty of stories of large, well know dealers having all sorts of legal issues.
There is a reason why they are not advertising the retail values of the high ticket winning items.
The worst that would happen is that a State would tell them to knock it off. They can plead ignorance on the various State laws. It would never end up in a legal proceeding.
actually they are advertising the retail values. There's a $50,000 price tag on the 65 HR $20 on their website.
VB is advertising their instant offer which is more of a wholesale price. They are NOT advertising a retail price.
Doesn't matter what you call it, wholesal, retail or other. They are putting a price on the prize which meets the definition of a lottery or sweepstakes.
[For the record, $50,000 is roughly the retail price for a 65 HR.]
@jmlanzaf said:
How come the Mint allows returns and reopens sales and no one thinks it's "suspicious"?
Because they aren't selling mystery boxes. But, and you already criticized me for it, I already said that what they did yesterday was a page right out of VB's playbook.
Here is a recent open and result from a friend - how did he do?
How do you think? He got himself an 1890O MS63 Morgan in an oh so special holder for $229. I can buy one on eBay without the holder for less than $200. Not as bad as most, all things considered.
@jmlanzaf said:
How come the Mint allows returns and reopens sales and no one thinks it's "suspicious"?
Because they aren't selling mystery boxes. But, and you already criticized me for it, I already said that what they did yesterday was a page right out of VB's playbook.
You didn't accuse VB of selling returns. You may have forgotten, but you accused them of holding these back and faking a sellout.
@NJCoin said:
So, how did everyone make out? We'd love to know how much fun $229 buys on Black Friday!
Amazing how these sell out, and then quantity magically appears months later, both at the ANA and now on Black Friday. You really cannot take anything these guys say at face value.
@jmlanzaf said:
How come the Mint allows returns and reopens sales and no one thinks it's "suspicious"?
Because they aren't selling mystery boxes. But, and you already criticized me for it, I already said that what they did yesterday was a page right out of VB's playbook.
You didn't accuse VB of selling returns. You may have forgotten, but you accused them of holding these back and falling a sellout.
@NJCoin said:
So, how did everyone make out? We'd love to know how much fun $229 buys on Black Friday!
Amazing how these sell out, and then quantity magically appears months later, both at the ANA and now on Black Friday. You really cannot take anything these guys say at face value.
That's right. And I accused the Mint of over hyping a "Vault" sale with a bunch of e-mails and an unnecessary waiting room to sell a small handful of desirable coins hidden several pages down in a website while the vault sale page remained unpopulated. The similarity to VB begins and ends with the hype.
VB did, in fact, hold back product while claiming a sellout. What they made available on Black Friday and at the ANA were not returns. Not an accusation. A fact.
If they were hit by bots, it would be highly unlikely that the extent of the damage was 100 boxes, given how many they put up for sale. Pretty much everything they do is brilliant marketing hype that winds up its customer base, but is BS at the end of the day.
These could have been made available for sale the day they blocked the bots, if that's in fact where they came from. They held back unsold inventory while claiming a sellout.
That could be considered fraud by people paying a premium on the secondary market for unopened boxes while quantity remained unopened and unsold in VB's warehouse, awaiting a future, planned, unannounced release at MSRP. Keep defending them, the "fun" they are hyping, and the tactics they use to hype it, for no reason other than you cannot help arguing about anything, even the indefensible actions of a company with which you have no connection, and are not even an enthusiastic customer, unlike others on this forum.
@jmlanzaf said:
How come the Mint allows returns and reopens sales and no one thinks it's "suspicious"?
Because they aren't selling mystery boxes. But, and you already criticized me for it, I already said that what they did yesterday was a page right out of VB's playbook.
You didn't accuse VB of selling returns. You may have forgotten, but you accused them of holding these back and falling a sellout.
@NJCoin said:
So, how did everyone make out? We'd love to know how much fun $229 buys on Black Friday!
Amazing how these sell out, and then quantity magically appears months later, both at the ANA and now on Black Friday. You really cannot take anything these guys say at face value.
You two STILL going at it? Definition of insanity. 🙄
Here is a recent open and result from a friend - how did he do?
@Che_Grapes he did ok but still lost money if he takes the VB instant offer of $195. They don't pay for shipping.
However, quick Ebay check of completed auctions for this coin shows none of the VB labels but NGC MS63 coins sold in a range of $227 - $245....the VB series label may bring a higher premium.😎
Here is a recent open and result from a friend - how did he do?
@Che_Grapes he did ok but still lost money if he takes the VB instant offer of $195. They don't pay for shipping.
However, quick Ebay check of completed auctions for this coin shows none of the VB labels but NGC MS63 coins sold in a range of $227 - $245....the VB series label may bring a higher premium.😎
Actually, they sold in a range of $138.49 to $245. Facts. 😎
@jmlanzaf said:
How come the Mint allows returns and reopens sales and no one thinks it's "suspicious"?
Because they aren't selling mystery boxes. But, and you already criticized me for it, I already said that what they did yesterday was a page right out of VB's playbook.
You didn't accuse VB of selling returns. You may have forgotten, but you accused them of holding these back and falling a sellout.
@NJCoin said:
So, how did everyone make out? We'd love to know how much fun $229 buys on Black Friday!
Amazing how these sell out, and then quantity magically appears months later, both at the ANA and now on Black Friday. You really cannot take anything these guys say at face value.
You two STILL going at it? Definition of insanity. 🙄
The issue wasn't the returns. Our friend from NJ thinks VB was faking the sellout and withholding these as opposed to just selling returns/cancellations. (VB never said what the source was, as far as I know. )
The issue wasn't the returns. Our friend from NJ thinks VB was faking the sellout and withholding these as opposed to just selling returns/cancellations. (VB never said what the source was, as far as I know. )
The source of the inventory sold on Black Friday:
UnBotted Series 4
We canceled over 100 “Bot” Orders – and we are celebrating Black Friday by bringing them to you at MSRP!
The issue wasn't the returns. Our friend from NJ thinks VB was faking the sellout and withholding these as opposed to just selling returns/cancellations. (VB never said what the source was, as far as I know. )
The source of the inventory sold on Black Friday:
UnBotted Series 4
We canceled over 100 “Bot” Orders – and we are celebrating Black Friday by bringing them to you at MSRP!
For the record, they did the same exact thing with Series 3 at the ANA show.
I have no idea what, if anything, happened with them and bots. But it stands to reason that if they had a bot problem, it wasn't limited to 100 units. There also would have been no reason not to release these in October, when they blocked the bots, other than they were holding them for Black Friday.
Obviously, they can do whatever they want. But, saying they are sold out when they are not is not really ethical. But then again, a lot of what they do, while maybe considered "fun" by some, is not considered ethical by others. They are every bit as consistent as you say I am.
Comments
LOL, I'm done here. It is obvious that you have a desperate need for attention and the last word. So, after this post you can have it, but you calling me out for speaking for others is rich.
Pot meet kettle, Mr. and I quote, "No one needed a thread about a VB retread Black Friday limited drop after they sold out, but we got one anyway. Literally, no one." I on the other hand said that some may want to discuss it, and it is quite obvious that Freddie does. Not to mention, despite what you think, I tend to learn something new and/or interesting in each one of these threads.
Philippians 4:4-7
At least one person besides Freddie bought a black Friday VB. Announcing that they were available is a public service announcement since most of us probably don't check in daily on the VB website. It's absolutely no different than someone posting that a US Mint product became available.
Thank you for posting your support of discussing VB. To be clear, I am only creating VB threads when new product information becomes available and I have no desire to debate the merits of the product ad nauseam unlike NJ who is obsessed with posting criticism of me personally and the product. 🙄
This thread was created after I made my purchase on BF in an effort to alert interested members that their was a limited number of boxes still left to purchase and that VB was testing their Virtual Waiting room process that is being fully implemented for the Series 5 release. Also, I tracked the availability of the boxes and they were still available for almost 20 minutes after I posted this thread.
Ironically, NJ keeps pushing each VB thread to the top instead of ignoring the thread and letting it eventually drop to page 2 and beyond in to oblivion. 😉
Each series has sold out on day one within hours of release so there is obvious demand for this product and the PCGS graded Ultra Breaks product.😎
Also, I am not the only member creating VB threads and not ALL of my threads have been shutdown by the Mods. Furthermore, I did not create the first VB thread.😎
Finally, I have NJ on Ignore but I can still see his name when he makes a post and his post count on each thread far exceeds mine so his posts are advertising and promoting VB more than me.🤣😂
Just stating the cold hard FACTS....😎
Bump for NJ. Lol
Excellent. As long as you are open to learning, I will keep trying to educate you.
These are not interesting new coin collector products. They are cynical, unregulated gambling vehicles, with no guarantee that what they promise will be delivered, and no independent third party supervision of the distribution of the prizes, regardless of what is implied by the statement that NGC "randomizes" placement in boxes and sealing of boxes.
Coins just happen to be the product inside the boxes, rather than cash, to avoid state regulation.
Like a magician mysteriously sawing a lady in half and putting her back together, with no blood and no physical therapy required after the ordeal, these guys take people's money, wave a wand, and return a fraction of it while convincing the audience they are having fun. It's not real. It's a magic trick. When it is over, your money is gone and in its place are a few coins worth a fraction of the missing money, with precious few exceptions.
Sure, but Freddie provided no service. VB doesn't restrict its marketing to people obsessively checking its website. Multiple e-mails go out in advance of everything it does, including the magical reappearance of rescued "unbotted" Series 4 VBs on Black Friday.
No one getting in a virtual waiting room after Freddie started his thread after checking out likely received anything, given how few they put up for sale.
VB claimed they were testing their waiting room for future releases. If true, that would require their site getting slammed at the appointed date and time, which is what certainly must have happened.
Freddie didn't share anything until he was done, although he had the information necessary to provide the claimed "public service" nearly two days earlier. Which is fine. But again, then who needs the thread?
No doubt the other person buying received the same e-mail everyone else on VB's list received, and also checked out before Freddie posted. Not a single person here reported learning about this from Freddie, being interested, and then going online and successfully making a purchase. Yet, we are already on our second page talking about it.
Mission accomplished, but nothing new learned, and not a single opinion changed about VB. No public service. Self indulgent trolling of the forum.
Yay!!!!!!!!!!! TTT 🤣😂😎 🤣😂😎 🤣😂😎 🤣😂😎
Smokin!!!!!!
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Most state lottery statutes call out items of value not cash.
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.47.htm
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
And yet these, sports card boxes, etc., escape state regulation, notwithstanding the blatant gambling aspect to the them. These clearly do not fall into that definition, likely because they deliver something of value to everyone.
I never suggested these guys, VB in particular, were violating any laws. From Day One, I HAVE been suggesting that a careful reading of their disclosures provides them ample wiggle room to screw people over.
Depending on how you define "screwing over," I believe they have been doing just that from the very beginning. Whether it's announcing sell outs when they have literally hundreds of boxes sitting in inventory, placing winning boxes in the hands of promoters and influencers while claiming everything is randomized and they have no way to know who is getting what, or claiming streamed pulls were mere simulations, without ever showing how opened boxes went back to NGC for resealing, re-randomizing, and redistribution.
So, whatever it is, I don't think it is illegal, and I also don't think it is worth promotion here. Which is why I am committed to sharing my views whenever others scratch the itch to promote (err, discuss).
I’m tired of all the gimmicks. I long for the old days when everything was raw ( raw wasn’t even a numismatic term) and we got screwed on every other thing we bought.
@NJCoin oh, it's almost certainly illegal. The general description of a lottery is Chance, Consideration, and Something of value. Just because everyone wins a prize doesn't change that.
7) "Lottery" means any scheme or procedure whereby one or more prizes are distributed by chance among persons who have paid or promised consideration for a chance to win anything of value, whether such scheme or procedure is called a pool, lottery, raffle, gift, gift enterprise, sale, policy game, or some other name.
However, whether anyone would care to prosecute it is a different story. The California Attorney General has other fish to fry.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I believe you are wrong and unless you are a civil attorney I suggest you cease and desist with your accusations. Your opinion and interpretation of the data you present are suspect.🙄
VaultBox is part of the well-known coin dealer Minshull Trading. Also, I would think the attorneys representing NGC and PCGS would have performed their due diligence before agreeing to do business with VB and Ultra Breaks respectively. 😎
I understand, and in principle I agree with you.
But, sports card breaks have been a thing for a long time now. If they have even been challenged, those challenges have gone nowhere, and sports card breaks are now available everywhere.
California has a pretty intense regulatory environment, and these guys are not exactly low profile. This would be low hanging fruit for the regulators if VB was, in fact illegal. Millions of dollars are now involved after 4 rounds and counting. I honestly don't think this would be under California's radar.
My bet would be that the fact that the lottery ticket is embedded within the product allows them to skirt the prohibition against running a private, unsupervised lottery.
I agree with the fact that TPGs, now owned by deep pocketed private equity, would conduct appropriate due diligence with respect to legality before getting involved.
That said, the fact that VB fully discloses that they might be screwing people doesn't make it right, even if it's not illegal. And suggesting that the fact that being a well-known coin dealer inoculates anyone from engaging in wrongdoing is ridiculous on its face. There are plenty of stories of large, well know dealers having all sorts of legal issues.
I had this discussion with @BStrauss3 before. I'm not sure he's wrong. Clearly, there is either a loop hole or prosecutorial indifference as mystery boxes have been around for decades. But it is worth noting that eBay does not allow mystery boxes for reasons similar to those that BStrauss lays out:
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/chance-listings-policy?id=4311
This really chaps my ass. I had a comment posted then edited because I had typed bd instead of bid now it needs approval before they will post it.
That's a bug. They never get approved. It's gone forever
Exactly how do they define "mystery box"? Because we have all seen VBs listed on eBay!
I actually had a comment several months ago that was held back for approval then posted a few days later.
There is a reason why they are not advertising the retail values of the high ticket winning items.
The worst that would happen is that a State would tell them to knock it off. They can plead ignorance on the various State laws. It would never end up in a legal proceeding.
That's interesting. I've had dozens of comments poof and then never return, as have most forum members. It's actually been better in the last year or so, but it does occasionally happen.
actually they are advertising the retail values. There's a $50,000 price tag on the 65 HR $20 on their website.
Wow OK I stand corrected.
That's a gutsy play call. Hail Mary or swan song?
VB is advertising their instant offer which is more of a wholesale price. They are NOT advertising a retail price.
I wonder which influencer will get the $50k coin in VB5 - can't wait to see the YT vid................
Yup. But, nowadays, they seem to be smart enough to keep it on the down low. Not doing a reveal right away also serves to support secondary market values for unopened boxes, which supports flippers, which in turn drives early sellouts.
Regardless, after what they did at the launch, I'd never trust them. No matter what they said they were doing, no matter what kind of prizes they dangle in front of me, and no matter how they price their precious randomized sealed treasures. As far as I'm concerned, the Freddies of the world can have all the "fun" to themselves.
Doesn't matter what you call it, wholesal, retail or other. They are putting a price on the prize which meets the definition of a lottery or sweepstakes.
[For the record, $50,000 is roughly the retail price for a 65 HR.]
Is the product still available ?
Or is it closed, now ?
Chris
Gone
At least until the next drop!
How come the Mint allows returns and reopens sales and no one thinks it's "suspicious"?
Because they aren't selling mystery boxes. But, and you already criticized me for it, I already said that what they did yesterday was a page right out of VB's playbook.
Here is a recent open and result from a friend - how did he do?
(and yes it really was a friend - I have yet to buy one my coin budget is in the toilet right now)
How do you think? He got himself an 1890O MS63 Morgan in an oh so special holder for $229. I can buy one on eBay without the holder for less than $200. Not as bad as most, all things considered.
You didn't accuse VB of selling returns. You may have forgotten, but you accused them of holding these back and faking a sellout.
That's right. And I accused the Mint of over hyping a "Vault" sale with a bunch of e-mails and an unnecessary waiting room to sell a small handful of desirable coins hidden several pages down in a website while the vault sale page remained unpopulated. The similarity to VB begins and ends with the hype.
VB did, in fact, hold back product while claiming a sellout. What they made available on Black Friday and at the ANA were not returns. Not an accusation. A fact.
If they were hit by bots, it would be highly unlikely that the extent of the damage was 100 boxes, given how many they put up for sale. Pretty much everything they do is brilliant marketing hype that winds up its customer base, but is BS at the end of the day.
These could have been made available for sale the day they blocked the bots, if that's in fact where they came from. They held back unsold inventory while claiming a sellout.
That could be considered fraud by people paying a premium on the secondary market for unopened boxes while quantity remained unopened and unsold in VB's warehouse, awaiting a future, planned, unannounced release at MSRP. Keep defending them, the "fun" they are hyping, and the tactics they use to hype it, for no reason other than you cannot help arguing about anything, even the indefensible actions of a company with which you have no connection, and are not even an enthusiastic customer, unlike others on this forum.
.> @jmlanzaf said:
You two STILL going at it? Definition of insanity. 🙄
@Che_Grapes he did ok but still lost money if he takes the VB instant offer of $195. They don't pay for shipping.
However, quick Ebay check of completed auctions for this coin shows none of the VB labels but NGC MS63 coins sold in a range of $227 - $245....the VB series label may bring a higher premium.😎
Actually, they sold in a range of $138.49 to $245. Facts. 😎
Here, let me hold up a mirror for you.
Anything else?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1097996/the-u-s-mint-sells-back-the-returned-coins#latest
The issue wasn't the returns. Our friend from NJ thinks VB was faking the sellout and withholding these as opposed to just selling returns/cancellations. (VB never said what the source was, as far as I know. )
The source of the inventory sold on Black Friday:
UnBotted Series 4
We canceled over 100 “Bot” Orders – and we are celebrating Black Friday by bringing them to you at MSRP!
Thanks for the info.
For the record, they did the same exact thing with Series 3 at the ANA show.
I have no idea what, if anything, happened with them and bots. But it stands to reason that if they had a bot problem, it wasn't limited to 100 units. There also would have been no reason not to release these in October, when they blocked the bots, other than they were holding them for Black Friday.
Obviously, they can do whatever they want. But, saying they are sold out when they are not is not really ethical. But then again, a lot of what they do, while maybe considered "fun" by some, is not considered ethical by others. They are every bit as consistent as you say I am.
@jmlanzaf
The coin in question is advertised is a flat edge. $50k is the wholesale price.
I enjoy these threads on VB contrary to the unnecessary arguments here.
Just reading about coins and the market is fine by me.
By the way, this is a Reddit thread about one of their marketing partners. Classy all around.
https://reddit.com/r/VaultBox/comments/17hd4ab/finestknown_vaultbox_series_4_order_issues_scam/