The organizers of last week’s Great American Coin and Collectibles Show held last week in Tampa would appreciate any input about the show, especially from those that actually attended the show. It is most helpful to send input directly.
If you are a collector, please send your input to collectorinput@gmail.com.
If you are a dealer, please send your input to dealerinput@gmail.com. Further, if you are a dealer, it is particularly helpful to describe your business model and its reliance on Public at a show. For example, is your business model wholesale dealer-to-dealer, retail to Public, or a combination of both? If the latter, what are the approximate percentages of each? Also, do shows in various locations offer you opportunities to meet in person with key clients?
@TrickleCharge said:
When I used to go to reptile shows there was almost always a cost to get in the door. I was always happy to pay a $10 or $20 entry fee and figured if there wasn't an admission cost then there probably wouldn't be a show. I like saving a buck as much as the next guy, still I can't help but wonder why many coin collectors seem to be put off by a low entry fee to attend a show.
People are funny when it comes to money. Of course we all prefer not paying for a show but it’s unrealistic thinking with everything being so expensive today. Not going to a show over $30 when you’re prepared to spend several hundred dollars or more makes very little sense to me.
We had a garage sale many years ago when we were moving. An older woman driving the most expensive Mercedes stopped at our house. There was a dish that she was interested in. She asked my wife how much it cost. My wife told her it was a dollar and she looked at it for ten minutes and asked my wife if she would accept fifty cents. My wife declined and she left.
I get it, but, did you charge admission to the garage sale? 😀
Nickel and diming over a $1 tchotchke is one thing, but, other than warehouse clubs, people are simply not conditioned to have to pay to enter a retail bourse. It's the dealers who are done a grave disservice when they pay a table fee, and then see public attendance depressed because the public is turned off by admission fees designed only to help promoters cover their nut. Every single retail store in the country pays rent to a landlord, but customers are not expected to cover it through an admission fee for the honor to have the opportunity to make purchases.
YMMV, but, if I had a table, I'd want every opportunity to turn a lookie-loo into a buyer, rather than sitting in a half empty hall populated only by die-hards, and then leaving early because it turns out to be a huge waste of time and money. Promoter's costs should be covered exclusively through table fees. If that is not possible, then the show is not viable.
Period, as both Nashville and now Tampa are proving. Dealers might be annoyed by having to deal with some members of the public, but the hobby is not actually a viable business if all dealers can do is wholesale inventory to each other.
@Randoms said:
If I’m going to spend a couple hundred dollars I can do that at home. Then I can spend that time I would have spent at the show doing something else.
If you’re a big spender of course $15 isn’t going to matter. If you budget $500-1000 a show and 10% of that is spent on parking, entrance, etc… You will probably budget your time and money elsewhere
Having spent the last 34 years in the transportation industry, I would hear your same comments a lot. People would complain over a plane ticket costing $150 from NYC to LAX without realizing they were going to be there in 6 hours with a free movie or two, free sodas, and a bathroom 70 feet away vs 2 days of hard driving…plus gas, tolls, a hotel for one day …and their time. A little less than literally $4 an hour was way too much money, so they’d rather have the aggravation of driving, the loss of time, and the wear and tear on their car…not to mention the drive back. The same folks who did complain but did buy a ticket, had no problem with a $10 beer at the airport, nor a $25 hamburger because those were ‘well worth the price.’ Kinda boggles my mind. People would pay $5 at the circus to see a fake double headed woman with a mermaid body…..but I paid $10, got to see three of the most rare coins in existence…met some great people and dealers, and got some great coins and information. I’ll pay $1.50 an hour for that experience. Cheers, karl
@Randoms said:
From my perspective I found three coins to buy online, I spent an hour at the gym, and the $15 went to lunch.
The Tampa show isn’t for people like me. You put obstacles in the way I did something else
You bought coins based on what the person selling them wanted you to see…..so you may or may not get what you actually wanted. I’ve bought on line and was pretty taken aback at what the seller posted and what I actually received. Also, I walked over 8,800 steps…so there’s my ‘hour at the gym” and the only obstacle I saw was actually nothing since I wanted to make it happen. Met some wonderful people/dealers, bought some great coins, saw some once in a lifetime coins, learned a lot and had a great time. It’s all in what you want to do. YMMV…..cheers, karl
I have never been to a coin show but I have been to antique/kitch shows with my wife. The best shows charge 10 to 15 dollars but then give you a coupon that ALL the venders have agreed they will accept as payment towards a purchase. This encourages purchases and according to a man at last junk fair in Shakopee the venders get to turn the coupons in for a refund. James
We can argue about my opinion all day. Ironically every coin in my core collection was bought online. Friday I will attempt to sell the last of the raw coins that I bought in person.
I would have had to make up a bike session or done it after a long day of driving. So I didn’t really miss out because on anything. Here are the options of how I’m going to spend my day. If I go to Tampa show here are the extra steps. I wasn’t interested so I passed
GACC Fort Lauderdale April 1 - 4, 2025 Broward County CC, this per the sign up form (as previously noted).
So initially I was ready to go to the GACC shows. There were only two initially and in Tampa. Things didn't go as planned and wound up in Fort Lauderdale (above) and Rosemont in Sept after the initial Tampa. Then the initial Tampa show happened and as known to many had poor public attendance and a few other items but seemed fairly well executed for an initial show.
However, there was and still is for some after the Tampa show, negative and/or questions about the Fort Lauderdale show. Some of these were (there are more) - It is the week following the Baltimore show (just like Tampa after Long Beach) - The Tampa public attendance - The dates of April 1 - 4 are during Spring Break and Fort Lauderdale is a popular spring break location, which brings up a few questions / concerns.
Now, I am recently told, there is a music festival about the same time. So I searched for it and found Tortuga music festival April 4 - 6 (so at end of GACC or maybe arriving during). I was curious about GACC location and room rates for Tortuga festival (unknown what the GACC will be but hopefully half or less of Tortuga and again this is for Tortuga below). So below is a screen shot of the Tortuga hotel map (room rates $400 -/+) and I put a red dot/star when the convention center is (unfortunately not a long distance away). However, perhaps for some this is a positive thing, a festival to attend at the end of the coin show.
It will be interesting to see how this develops and from the past I have seen or heard the negatives on shows but then some give in and go. Claim it is a can't miss a show mentality thing. This one appears to have a hill to climb (if I made that a mountain to climb then could cue Elvis ).
@lilolme said:
GACC Fort Lauderdale April 1 - 4, 2025 Broward County CC, this per the sign up form (as previously noted).
So initially I was ready to go to the GACC shows. There were only two initially and in Tampa. Things didn't go as planned and wound up in Fort Lauderdale (above) and Rosemont in Sept after the initial Tampa. Then the initial Tampa show happened and as known to many had poor public attendance and a few other items but seemed fairly well executed for an initial show.
However, there was and still is for some after the Tampa show, negative and/or questions about the Fort Lauderdale show. Some of these were (there are more) - It is the week following the Baltimore show (just like Tampa after Long Beach) - The Tampa public attendance - The dates of April 1 - 4 are during Spring Break and Fort Lauderdale is a popular spring break location, which brings up a few questions / concerns.
Now, I am recently told, there is a music festival about the same time. So I searched for it and found Tortuga music festival April 4 - 6 (so at end of GACC or maybe arriving during). I was curious about GACC location and room rates for Tortuga festival (unknown what the GACC will be but hopefully half or less of Tortuga and again this is for Tortuga below). So below is a screen shot of the Tortuga hotel map (room rates $400 -/+) and I put a red dot/star when the convention center is (unfortunately not a long distance away). However, perhaps for some this is a positive thing, a festival to attend at the end of the coin show.
It will be interesting to see how this develops and from the past I have seen or heard the negatives on shows but then some give in and go. Claim it is a can't miss a show mentality thing. This one appears to have a hill to climb (if I made that a mountain to climb then could cue Elvis ).
>
I just did a quick search of hotels in the Hollywood area where I reside for the dates of 31 March to 5 April, 2025. Plenty of accommodations ranging from approximately $110 a night on up are still available. Stay on the beach anywhere in FLL/Hollywood/Aventura/Miami and you will always pay a premium. The prices generally do not move much as people who generally travel here for beach fun don’t mind paying extra to walk out the hotel doors right onto the sand. So the early bird will get the much more affordable places to stay if they look now. Cheers, karl
@lilolme said:
GACC Fort Lauderdale April 1 - 4, 2025 Broward County CC, this per the sign up form (as previously noted).
So initially I was ready to go to the GACC shows. There were only two initially and in Tampa. Things didn't go as planned and wound up in Fort Lauderdale (above) and Rosemont in Sept after the initial Tampa. Then the initial Tampa show happened and as known to many had poor public attendance and a few other items but seemed fairly well executed for an initial show.
However, there was and still is for some after the Tampa show, negative and/or questions about the Fort Lauderdale show. Some of these were (there are more) - It is the week following the Baltimore show (just like Tampa after Long Beach) - The Tampa public attendance - The dates of April 1 - 4 are during Spring Break and Fort Lauderdale is a popular spring break location, which brings up a few questions / concerns.
Now, I am recently told, there is a music festival about the same time. So I searched for it and found Tortuga music festival April 4 - 6 (so at end of GACC or maybe arriving during). I was curious about GACC location and room rates for Tortuga festival (unknown what the GACC will be but hopefully half or less of Tortuga and again this is for Tortuga below). So below is a screen shot of the Tortuga hotel map (room rates $400 -/+) and I put a red dot/star when the convention center is (unfortunately not a long distance away). However, perhaps for some this is a positive thing, a festival to attend at the end of the coin show.
It will be interesting to see how this develops and from the past I have seen or heard the negatives on shows but then some give in and go. Claim it is a can't miss a show mentality thing. This one appears to have a hill to climb (if I made that a mountain to climb then could cue Elvis ).
>
I just did a quick search of hotels in the Hollywood area where I reside for the dates of 31 March to 5 April, 2025. Plenty of accommodations ranging from approximately $110 a night on up are still available. Stay on the beach anywhere in FLL/Hollywood/Aventura/Miami and you will always pay a premium. The prices generally do not move much as people who generally travel here for beach fun don’t mind paying extra to walk out the hotel doors right onto the sand. So the early bird will get the much more affordable places to stay if they look now. Cheers, karl
That might help. Hollywood looks to be a few miles away and certainly not a problem for many with Uber and such. Coin shows typically try to find hotel rooms within a few blocks or even across the street from the show convention center. As noted hopefully GACC can get some for half the price shown on that festival map. I was kind of hoping to see the convention center more removed from the area (like in Hollywood or similar) as I did not recall from the prior FUN.
@lilolme said:
GACC Fort Lauderdale April 1 - 4, 2025 Broward County CC, this per the sign up form (as previously noted).
………
I just did a quick search of hotels in the Hollywood area where I reside for the dates of 31 March to 5 April, 2025. Plenty of accommodations ranging from approximately $110 a night on up are still available. Stay on the beach anywhere in FLL/Hollywood/Aventura/Miami and you will always pay a premium. The prices generally do not move much as people who generally travel here for beach fun don’t mind paying extra to walk out the hotel doors right onto the sand. So the early bird will get the much more affordable places to stay if they look now. Cheers, karl
That might help. Hollywood looks to be a few miles away and certainly not a problem for many with Uber and such. Coin shows typically try to find hotel rooms within a few blocks or even across the street from the show convention center. As noted hopefully GACC can get some for half the price shown on that festival map. I was kind of hoping to see the convention center more removed from the area (like in Hollywood or similar) as I did not recall from the prior FUN.
Hollywood is pretty close with several nice places on US-1 to grab a nice dinner (Jaxson’s, Granpa’s Dania Beach Casino, etc.). I would say from the convention center those places are about 10-12 minutes away…and just south of the FLL airport. There are also a few new hotels on US-1 too. Hopefully those wanting to attend will find reasonable accommodations…and great weather while they are here!
@lilolme said:
GACC Fort Lauderdale April 1 - 4, 2025 Broward County CC, this per the sign up form (as previously noted).
So initially I was ready to go to the GACC shows. There were only two initially and in Tampa. Things didn't go as planned and wound up in Fort Lauderdale (above) and Rosemont in Sept after the initial Tampa. Then the initial Tampa show happened and as known to many had poor public attendance and a few other items but seemed fairly well executed for an initial show.
However, there was and still is for some after the Tampa show, negative and/or questions about the Fort Lauderdale show. Some of these were (there are more) - It is the week following the Baltimore show (just like Tampa after Long Beach) - The Tampa public attendance - The dates of April 1 - 4 are during Spring Break and Fort Lauderdale is a popular spring break location, which brings up a few questions / concerns.
Now, I am recently told, there is a music festival about the same time. So I searched for it and found Tortuga music festival April 4 - 6 (so at end of GACC or maybe arriving during). I was curious about GACC location and room rates for Tortuga festival (unknown what the GACC will be but hopefully half or less of Tortuga and again this is for Tortuga below). So below is a screen shot of the Tortuga hotel map (room rates $400 -/+) and I put a red dot/star when the convention center is (unfortunately not a long distance away). However, perhaps for some this is a positive thing, a festival to attend at the end of the coin show.
It will be interesting to see how this develops and from the past I have seen or heard the negatives on shows but then some give in and go. Claim it is a can't miss a show mentality thing. This one appears to have a hill to climb (if I made that a mountain to climb then could cue Elvis ).
Any inaugural show is going to have a tough time with attendance, but all things considered I think it was well done and I’ll definitely be attending the FT Laura show, I’m a sponsor actually.
As far as I know most college spring breaks are done by the end of march, and it’s still early enough before the snowbirds go back up north shortly thereafter. I think if there was a live auction there, it could help big time with the attendance, and I will pass along my thoughts to Larry about the vouchers for the attendance fee. Hell, I’ll take all of the vouchers if people want to sell them to someone else for $10 or 50c on the dollar.
@lilolme said:
GACC Fort Lauderdale April 1 - 4, 2025 Broward County CC, this per the sign up form (as previously noted).
So initially I was ready to go to the GACC shows. There were only two initially and in Tampa. Things didn't go as planned and wound up in Fort Lauderdale (above) and Rosemont in Sept after the initial Tampa. Then the initial Tampa show happened and as known to many had poor public attendance and a few other items but seemed fairly well executed for an initial show.
However, there was and still is for some after the Tampa show, negative and/or questions about the Fort Lauderdale show. Some of these were (there are more) - It is the week following the Baltimore show (just like Tampa after Long Beach) - The Tampa public attendance - The dates of April 1 - 4 are during Spring Break and Fort Lauderdale is a popular spring break location, which brings up a few questions / concerns.
Now, I am recently told, there is a music festival about the same time. So I searched for it and found Tortuga music festival April 4 - 6 (so at end of GACC or maybe arriving during). I was curious about GACC location and room rates for Tortuga festival (unknown what the GACC will be but hopefully half or less of Tortuga and again this is for Tortuga below). So below is a screen shot of the Tortuga hotel map (room rates $400 -/+) and I put a red dot/star when the convention center is (unfortunately not a long distance away). However, perhaps for some this is a positive thing, a festival to attend at the end of the coin show.
It will be interesting to see how this develops and from the past I have seen or heard the negatives on shows but then some give in and go. Claim it is a can't miss a show mentality thing. This one appears to have a hill to climb (if I made that a mountain to climb then could cue Elvis ).
Any inaugural show is going to have a tough time with attendance, but all things considered I think it was well done and I’ll definitely be attending the FT Laura show, I’m a sponsor actually.
As far as I know most college spring breaks are done by the end of march, and it’s still early enough before the snowbirds go back up north shortly thereafter. I think if there was a live auction there, it could help big time with the attendance, and I will pass along my thoughts to Larry about the vouchers for the attendance fee. Hell, I’ll take all of the vouchers if people want to sell them to someone else for $10 or 50c on the dollar.
Absolutely on the new show attendance and especially when trying to do a larger show that relies somewhat on people traveling longer distances (long drive or flying) and staying overnight versus a small local show that tries to get people in the metro area or similar to show up.
I hope my posts don't come off as anti-GACC as that is not so. Just forwarding what I hear. For instance as far as the spring break a dealer mentioned it at Tampa and then I heard it from others. As previously stated, it might not matter how much the spring break actually impacts the show because it is in the 'heads' now and after Tampa maybe not willing to take a chance on it. Similarly, the music festival I heard from someone that I know did not look it up. So they had to be told and indicating again that there is some talk going on. After being told I did look it up and found it not to be during the GACC but at the end. I did want to note the hotel prices as the one at the bottom is close to the CC and I wonder if GACC can get room blocks below $200 again.
Monday morning quarter-backing there are some things I would note. The Tampa show set out to go big (my words) and came up short. I do agree it was fairly well organized (as previously stated) and I kind of expected that with Larry's past experience with ANA and CSNS. So the MMQB I would have a smaller target and try to overachieve. The low budget annex area, cancel for now and put all dealers in one room (in Tampa the annex got cancelled and this is what happened). The displays in the middle of the bourse, again cancel that. It just presents somewhat empty tables, spreads the dealers and attendees further apart. Do typical display area. That stage area with presenters / talkers. If inside the bourse area to bring in more people, then don't have the stage and speakers pointing out into the bourse. Turn the stage 90 degrees (or a little more) and have the speakers point to empty area in the front or back of room. Some of the presentations just created noise for those on the bourse to overcome. Forget the special security times for attendees to explore the area (this was cancelled at Tampa). While the dealer day worked fairly well for Tampa just do it in the bourse area (remember I am cancelling the low budget annex so those rooms don't need to be rented). The $15 cover charge to 'keep the riff raff out' was also mentioned by several. I like one idea of doing $5 as the riff raff isn't going to pay anything and then if people apply online at least a week ahead, then make it free. I am forgetting stuff I know. The point is to focus on doing the best mid-size more standard show as possible and build for there. Avoid starting big and building down (or cancelling things). Oh, keep the idea of the auction companies not being up front and the first thing someone sees when they walk in. I agree with Larry that dealers with collectable coins should be up front.
Thought on auctions. Years ago the auctions were kind of big coin show items. Many well attended and some went to midnight and beyond. Let's fast forward to today and all the online bidding possibilities. In-between these two the auction attendance slowly dropped as the online bidding became more versatile and reliable. There would be some who would be at a show and prepare for the auction by getting something to eat and going to their room. In their room between auction lots they could eat, talk on the phone, do inventory, work on sales, work on upcoming lots and not disturb or be disturbed (be more comfortable). Auction attendance slowly went down and the auction room more empty than full mostly. And of course covid shut it down.
So when discussing auctions at shows I think they would need to be somewhat special like a Bass to attract significant attendance. Typical auction lots may result in similar results to mostly empty auction rooms. Also not many would travel any distance for the typical lots. Another thing is auction results. Do they improve? Is there a reason for the auction company to travel all the people necessary to put on the on-site auction and their equipment and setup and with reliable internet. If special lots were done (like a platinum nights) and expectations came up short, would this cause consigners to question why it was done onsite versus the now new normal with all the other lots? I don't know.
@lilolme said:
The dates of April 1 - 4 are during Spring Break and Fort Lauderdale is a popular spring break location, which brings up a few questions / concerns.
Agreed. I don’t want to see anyone here on a “Coin Collectors Gone Wild” video!
At the show, ambitious plans were unveiled for TWO shows in 2025: Fort Lauderdale, Florida in April and Chicago, Illinois in September. In order to maximize production & turnout, the operators have sinced decided to combine the resources from both 2025 shows into ONE. That show will take place September 25-27 in Chicago at the Donald H. Stephens Convention Center, Rosemont, IL, as previously announced.
While this means the 2025 April Fort Lauderdale show is cancelled in 2025, the operators do anticipate a return to the Florida market very soon. In the meantime, they plan to shift all the anticipated events, activities and guest panelists from the FLL show to the Chicago show, resulting in a net addition effectively doubling the resources and setting the stage for a BIG show in the windy city.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
At the show, ambitious plans were unveiled for TWO shows in 2025: Fort Lauderdale, Florida in April and Chicago, Illinois in September. In order to maximize production & turnout, the operators have sinced decided to combine the resources from both 2025 shows into ONE. That show will take place September 25-27 in Chicago at the Donald H. Stephens Convention Center, Rosemont, IL, as previously announced.
While this means the 2025 April Fort Lauderdale show is cancelled in 2025, the operators do anticipate a return to the Florida market very soon. In the meantime, they plan to shift all the anticipated events, activities and guest panelists from the FLL show to the Chicago show, resulting in a net addition effectively doubling the resources and setting the stage for a BIG show in the windy city.
Thanks, I did look but didn't see it. I found it now. As you noted under Press Room link and then new 2025 schedule link. Noted as Dec 19, 2024 dated. So officially cancelled as was rumored a couple months ago. Sometimes those rumors come true.
@yspsales said:
How much does local attendance go into promotion decisions?
Surely they have an expectation based on past shows.
FUN success in January can't be all from a numismatic Woodstock of sorts.
"Local" attendance? All a promoter cares about is total attendance.
FUN success actually is from a "numismatic Woodstock of sorts." It's an ideal location at an ideal time of the year, and collectors and dealers do indeed flock to it from all over the country.
California certainly has a critical mass of local numismatists, but shows there tend to suck because they have a difficult time drawing from outside the West Coast. If a promoter could get 5-10K people from a local area to attend a show, it would be one of the best shows in the country, without a single person from outside the area.
The fact is that simply does not happen. So, again, promoters are agnostic with respect to where attendance comes from, but they must be cognizant of the fact that local attendance alone will not support anything other than a local show.
So local attendance is important for the local monthly whatever show, but means pretty much nothing at all for a national show, as GACC aspires to be. Which is precisely why Ft. Lauderdale is cancelled, even though there would certainly be strong local attendance for such a show.
After seeing what happened in Tampa, and realizing FUN already runs two very decent shows in Florida, the promoters likely realized that there is no national market for a spring show in the state. Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, Orlando, Key West, Jacksonville, wherever.
So they are staking their claim in Rosemont, hoping to pick up everyone who would otherwise go to the WFOM, but won't make the trip to OKC. I don't think they are going to be any more successful than they were in Tampa, because the draw in Rosemont is the ANA as well as the location, not merely the lovely convention center.
@yspsales said:
How much does local attendance go into promotion decisions?
Surely they have an expectation based on past shows.
FUN success in January can't be all from a numismatic Woodstock of sorts.
"Local" attendance? All a promoter cares about is total attendance.
FUN success actually is from a "numismatic Woodstock of sorts." It's an ideal location at an ideal time of the year, and collectors and dealers do indeed flock to it from all over the country.
California certainly has a critical mass of local numismatists, but shows there tend to suck because they have a difficult time drawing from outside the West Coast. If a promoter could get 5-10K people from a local area to attend a show, it would be one of the best shows in the country, without a single person from outside the area.
The fact is that simply does not happen. So, again, promoters are agnostic with respect to where attendance comes from, but they must be cognizant of the fact that local attendance alone will not support anything other than a local show.
So local attendance is important for the local monthly whatever show, but means pretty much nothing at all for a national show, as GACC aspires to be. Which is precisely why Ft. Lauderdale is cancelled, even though there would certainly be strong local attendance for such a show.
After seeing what happened in Tampa, and realizing FUN already runs two very decent shows in Florida, the promoters likely realized that there is no national market for a spring show in the state. Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, Orlando, Key West, Jacksonville, wherever.
So they are staking their claim in Rosemont, hoping to pick up everyone who would otherwise go to the WFOM, but won't make the trip to OKC. I don't think they are going to be any more successful than they were in Tampa, because the draw in Rosemont is the ANA as well as the location, not merely the lovely convention center.
In our Press Release we stated Fort Lauderdale has been cancelled. In order to maximize production & turnout, the operators have since decided to combine the resources from both 2025 shows into ONE. We anticipate a return to the Florida Market soon. Rosemont will be a blockbuster.
At the show, ambitious plans were unveiled for TWO shows in 2025: Fort Lauderdale, Florida in April and Chicago, Illinois in September. In order to maximize production & turnout, the operators have sinced decided to combine the resources from both 2025 shows into ONE. That show will take place September 25-27 in Chicago at the Donald H. Stephens Convention Center, Rosemont, IL, as previously announced.
While this means the 2025 April Fort Lauderdale show is cancelled in 2025, the operators do anticipate a return to the Florida market very soon. In the meantime, they plan to shift all the anticipated events, activities and guest panelists from the FLL show to the Chicago show, resulting in a net addition effectively doubling the resources and setting the stage for a BIG show in the windy city.
We don’t hide things. Our Press release announcement of our two other shows was on September 4th. We released a new update on December 19th explaining that we have cancelled Fort Lauderdale and decided to combine both shows resources into ONE. Responding to another forum member: I have spoken to many dealers that have no interest in attending the OKC ANA Show. Rosemont provides a perfect balance of accessibility and attendance.
@yspsales said:
How much does local attendance go into promotion decisions?
Surely they have an expectation based on past shows.
FUN success in January can't be all from a numismatic Woodstock of sorts.
"Local" attendance? All a promoter cares about is total attendance.
FUN success actually is from a "numismatic Woodstock of sorts." It's an ideal location at an ideal time of the year, and collectors and dealers do indeed flock to it from all over the country.
California certainly has a critical mass of local numismatists, but shows there tend to suck because they have a difficult time drawing from outside the West Coast. If a promoter could get 5-10K people from a local area to attend a show, it would be one of the best shows in the country, without a single person from outside the area.
The fact is that simply does not happen. So, again, promoters are agnostic with respect to where attendance comes from, but they must be cognizant of the fact that local attendance alone will not support anything other than a local show.
So local attendance is important for the local monthly whatever show, but means pretty much nothing at all for a national show, as GACC aspires to be. Which is precisely why Ft. Lauderdale is cancelled, even though there would certainly be strong local attendance for such a show.
After seeing what happened in Tampa, and realizing FUN already runs two very decent shows in Florida, the promoters likely realized that there is no national market for a spring show in the state. Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, Orlando, Key West, Jacksonville, wherever.
So they are staking their claim in Rosemont, hoping to pick up everyone who would otherwise go to the WFOM, but won't make the trip to OKC. I don't think they are going to be any more successful than they were in Tampa, because the draw in Rosemont is the ANA as well as the location, not merely the lovely convention center.
In our Press Release we stated Fort Lauderdale has been cancelled. In order to maximize production & turnout, the operators have since decided to combine the resources from both 2025 shows into ONE. We anticipate a return to the Florida Market soon. Rosemont will be a blockbuster.
I truly wish you nothing but the best. But, as an objective observer having the benefit of seeing how both your Tampa show and IMEX's 2023 Nashville show went, it looks to me like you are going to have your work cut out for you establishing a new, national "blockbuster" show.
Maybe if the ANA just went away. Otherwise, it is unlikely you will have a "blockbuster" anything a month after the WFOM. You will benefit by attracting some who won't go to OKC, and will otherwise pick up some folks willing to do 2 big shows a month apart.
But you are the new guys looking to gain traction, and won't be getting the benefit of the doubt after Tampa. That will make it difficult for you to make a splash.
If so, after 2 so-so efforts and a cancelled show in between, it will be VERY difficult for you to gain traction going forward. And that's assuming there is even a market for another big national show, given the existing national, regional and local offerings.
@yspsales said:
How much does local attendance go into promotion decisions?
Surely they have an expectation based on past shows.
FUN success in January can't be all from a numismatic Woodstock of sorts.
"Local" attendance? All a promoter cares about is total attendance.
FUN success actually is from a "numismatic Woodstock of sorts." It's an ideal location at an ideal time of the year, and collectors and dealers do indeed flock to it from all over the country.
California certainly has a critical mass of local numismatists, but shows there tend to suck because they have a difficult time drawing from outside the West Coast. If a promoter could get 5-10K people from a local area to attend a show, it would be one of the best shows in the country, without a single person from outside the area.
The fact is that simply does not happen. So, again, promoters are agnostic with respect to where attendance comes from, but they must be cognizant of the fact that local attendance alone will not support anything other than a local show.
So local attendance is important for the local monthly whatever show, but means pretty much nothing at all for a national show, as GACC aspires to be. Which is precisely why Ft. Lauderdale is cancelled, even though there would certainly be strong local attendance for such a show.
After seeing what happened in Tampa, and realizing FUN already runs two very decent shows in Florida, the promoters likely realized that there is no national market for a spring show in the state. Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, Orlando, Key West, Jacksonville, wherever.
So they are staking their claim in Rosemont, hoping to pick up everyone who would otherwise go to the WFOM, but won't make the trip to OKC. I don't think they are going to be any more successful than they were in Tampa, because the draw in Rosemont is the ANA as well as the location, not merely the lovely convention center.
In our Press Release we stated Fort Lauderdale has been cancelled. In order to maximize production & turnout, the operators have since decided to combine the resources from both 2025 shows into ONE. We anticipate a return to the Florida Market soon. Rosemont will be a blockbuster.
I truly wish you nothing but the best. But, as an objective observer having the benefit of seeing how both your Tampa show and IMEX's 2023 Nashville show went, it looks to me like you are going to have your work cut out for you establishing a new, national "blockbuster" show.
Maybe if the ANA just went away. Otherwise, it is unlikely you will have a "blockbuster" anything a month after the WFOM. You will benefit by attracting some who won't go to OKC, and will otherwise pick up some folks willing to do 2 big shows a month apart.
But you are the new guys looking to gain traction, and won't be getting the benefit of the doubt after Tampa. That will make it difficult for you to make a splash.
If so, after 2 so-so efforts and a cancelled show in between, it will be VERY difficult for you to gain traction going forward. And that's assuming there is even a market for another big national show, given the existing national, regional and local offerings.
The Tampa show last September was a great start to our GACC Shows. Mark my words attendance for Rosemont will NOT be an issue. Like I have said before, I have spoken to many dealers and majority of them have no interest in heading to OKC for the ANA Show. We are not the “new guys” in the business, Shepherd Expos Management also ran the Central States Show 2023 and it was a big success. Tampa was our first show, and I have full optimism on Rosemont being a blockbuster. FUN didn’t turn into an eventful show overnight, remember that. IMEX has several issues, one was the location, and the venues.
Me thinks the laddie doth protest too much. The reality is that it will take several years to get a new show established and shows generally seem to be on a down curve.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 said:
Me thinks the laddie doth protest too much. The reality is that it will take several years to get a new show established and shows generally seem to be on a down curve.
Partially agree. Totally agree with protesting too much. Don't really agree with shows being on a downtrend. Shows got killed during the pandemic, but really do seem to have come back strong. Other than onsite live auctions.
To me, it's more like the calendar is saturated, and there does not seem to be an unmet need for a new national, for profit show. IMEX had its issues unique to it. Same for GACC.
It might have taken FUN time to get itself established, but, OTOH, it did not have to compete with a FUN when doing so. GACC is now trying to break into a market after a so-so first effort and a cancelled second one. At the same time ANA scaled back from 3 shows to 2, and IMEX flopped before now promising "the Largest & Most Exciting Coin Show in America!"
Lots of empty words. Again, I wish everyone nothing but success, but it's time to stop talking and start producing.
GACC will undoubtedly have an advantage in 2025 with ANA choosing OKC for next year's WFOM. No such luck in the future with Pittsburgh and then likely Rosemont on the horizon for near future WFOMs.
GACC might not be the “new guys” in the business, but it IS a new show, and Shepherd Expos Management certainly didn't make Tampa the "blockbuster" they are now promising for Rosemont, and didn't prevent them from publicly promising a Ft. Lauderdale show they later had to cancel.
"Full optimism" is easy. Execution? Not so much.
Like IMEX, GACC, as well as the rest of us, only gets one chance to make a first impression. Now they have to overcome "Tampa was our first show" and "Ft. Lauderdale was our aborted second show" and produce a promised "blockbuster" in the vacuum left by the ANA in Rosemont this year.
Having the WFOM be in OKC will help. Having it be a mere month prior will not. Neither will GACC's track record to date. It's unlikely anyone in 2023-25 has the runway FUN or Whitman did when they first got going to create something. Time will tell, but the results so far do not inspire confidence.
And again, seriously, it would be great for everyone if it turns out to be the blockbuster promised. Same for IMEX, 3 weeks earlier and a week and a half after the WFOM. As for me, after Tampa 2024 and Nashville 2023, I've had my fill of Kool-Aid for the time being, and would now like to see less talk and more action.
To be honest, I really, really, do NOT want to have to go to OKC and would love for the Rosemont GACC to take their place in such a convenient venue. Since virtually everyone will be unable to get a direct flight, I could see that being a substantial problem for all of us here in the US, and a colossal problem for the world dealers.
@tjrarecoins - How will you guys be handling the funds collected, sponsorship and the selected tables now that the show is cancelled, I assume it will carry over with those dealers having first preference at the rosemont show? You can message me privately or email if you want.
@PeakRarities said:
To be honest, I really, really, do NOT want to have to go to OKC and would love for the Rosemont GACC to take their place in such a convenient venue. Since virtually everyone will be unable to get a direct flight, I could see that being a substantial problem for all of us here in the US, and a colossal problem for the world dealers.
@tjrarecoins - How will you guys be handling the funds collected, sponsorship and the selected tables now that the show is cancelled, I assume it will carry over with those dealers having first preference at the rosemont show? You can message me privately or email if you want.
I will get back to you on this question. I will email you.
Happy Holidays.
@PeakRarities said:
To be honest, I really, really, do NOT want to have to go to OKC and would love for the Rosemont GACC to take their place in such a convenient venue. Since virtually everyone will be unable to get a direct flight, I could see that being a substantial problem for all of us here in the US, and a colossal problem for the world dealers.
@tjrarecoins - How will you guys be handling the funds collected, sponsorship and the selected tables now that the show is cancelled, I assume it will carry over with those dealers having first preference at the rosemont show? You can message me privately or email if you want.
Understood. And, as I said, if the ANA just went away, perhaps these guys could step in and take their place.
As it stands, though, that is not happening. Lots of folks, for political, loyalty, habit, or other reasons, WILL be making the trip to OKC. Perhaps under duress, but they will be going.
Others will skip it. Now, do they take a shot on Rosemont, after Tampa and then Ft. Lauderdale, on what will undoubtedly be a cannibalized show at best?
Or do they just satisfy themselves with summer FUN, Long Beach, Central States, Whitman, whatever while waiting for winter FUN 2026 and then the 2026 WFOM in Pittsburgh? Only the most dedicated will hit OKC in mid August, Nashville in early September, and then Rosemont in late September.
So it's not taking anyone's place. It might or might not fill a vacuum for a year, until the WFOM gets back to more popular locations.
The question is whether there is really room for another for-profit entry in the arena? The early indication seems to be a resounding no, regardless of whether or not Rosemont attracts a bit of a crowd in 2025 due to the WFOM being in OKC.
Would anyone consider attendance at half the level of winter FUN or a Rosemont or Pittsburgh WFOM to constitute a "blockbuster" show? Because that's right around the best I can see for this.
Probably on par with what the WFOM will see in OKC. After which, you can be sure the ANA won't be going back there. If GACC can feast on the ANA's leftovers, good for them. But I would not consider that to be a "blockbuster" show that I would clear space on my calendar to attend.
Maybe I’m disconnected a bit, but traveling 50% for a living, I don’t see the world falling apart due to a connecting flight. I mean, it’s better than a stage coach.
@johnny010 said:
Maybe I’m disconnected a bit, but traveling 50% for a living, I don’t see the world falling apart due to a connecting flight. I mean, it’s better than a stage coach.
You're right. The world also won't fall apart if a coin show is skipped.
Dealers have enough hassles traveling around the country with expensive inventory. Connecting flights do not need to be among them. Particularly when there are several opportunities throughout the year that do not involve them.
It's a legitimate concern, no one is required to attend any particular show, and the final attendance tally will show that @PeakRarities's concerns are not unfounded. Particularly when you consider that the issue also impacts members of the public.
Less public attendance at a show translates into less good shows for dealers, magnifying the hassle of traveling in the first place. With or without a connecting flight. Just ask any dealer who attended the last show in Nashville or Tampa whether the squeeze was worth the juice in light of the public attendance.
Comments
The organizers of last week’s Great American Coin and Collectibles Show held last week in Tampa would appreciate any input about the show, especially from those that actually attended the show. It is most helpful to send input directly.
If you are a collector, please send your input to collectorinput@gmail.com.
If you are a dealer, please send your input to dealerinput@gmail.com. Further, if you are a dealer, it is particularly helpful to describe your business model and its reliance on Public at a show. For example, is your business model wholesale dealer-to-dealer, retail to Public, or a combination of both? If the latter, what are the approximate percentages of each? Also, do shows in various locations offer you opportunities to meet in person with key clients?
I get it, but, did you charge admission to the garage sale? 😀
Nickel and diming over a $1 tchotchke is one thing, but, other than warehouse clubs, people are simply not conditioned to have to pay to enter a retail bourse. It's the dealers who are done a grave disservice when they pay a table fee, and then see public attendance depressed because the public is turned off by admission fees designed only to help promoters cover their nut. Every single retail store in the country pays rent to a landlord, but customers are not expected to cover it through an admission fee for the honor to have the opportunity to make purchases.
YMMV, but, if I had a table, I'd want every opportunity to turn a lookie-loo into a buyer, rather than sitting in a half empty hall populated only by die-hards, and then leaving early because it turns out to be a huge waste of time and money. Promoter's costs should be covered exclusively through table fees. If that is not possible, then the show is not viable.
Period, as both Nashville and now Tampa are proving. Dealers might be annoyed by having to deal with some members of the public, but the hobby is not actually a viable business if all dealers can do is wholesale inventory to each other.
Having spent the last 34 years in the transportation industry, I would hear your same comments a lot. People would complain over a plane ticket costing $150 from NYC to LAX without realizing they were going to be there in 6 hours with a free movie or two, free sodas, and a bathroom 70 feet away vs 2 days of hard driving…plus gas, tolls, a hotel for one day …and their time. A little less than literally $4 an hour was way too much money, so they’d rather have the aggravation of driving, the loss of time, and the wear and tear on their car…not to mention the drive back. The same folks who did complain but did buy a ticket, had no problem with a $10 beer at the airport, nor a $25 hamburger because those were ‘well worth the price.’ Kinda boggles my mind. People would pay $5 at the circus to see a fake double headed woman with a mermaid body…..but I paid $10, got to see three of the most rare coins in existence…met some great people and dealers, and got some great coins and information. I’ll pay $1.50 an hour for that experience. Cheers, karl
From my perspective I found three coins to buy online, I spent an hour at the gym, and the $15 went to lunch.
The Tampa show isn’t for people like me. You put obstacles in the way I did something else
You bought coins based on what the person selling them wanted you to see…..so you may or may not get what you actually wanted. I’ve bought on line and was pretty taken aback at what the seller posted and what I actually received. Also, I walked over 8,800 steps…so there’s my ‘hour at the gym” and the only obstacle I saw was actually nothing since I wanted to make it happen. Met some wonderful people/dealers, bought some great coins, saw some once in a lifetime coins, learned a lot and had a great time. It’s all in what you want to do. YMMV…..cheers, karl
I have never been to a coin show but I have been to antique/kitch shows with my wife. The best shows charge 10 to 15 dollars but then give you a coupon that ALL the venders have agreed they will accept as payment towards a purchase. This encourages purchases and according to a man at last junk fair in Shakopee the venders get to turn the coupons in for a refund. James
We can argue about my opinion all day. Ironically every coin in my core collection was bought online. Friday I will attempt to sell the last of the raw coins that I bought in person.
I would have had to make up a bike session or done it after a long day of driving. So I didn’t really miss out because on anything. Here are the options of how I’m going to spend my day. If I go to Tampa show here are the extra steps. I wasn’t interested so I passed
CRO Road Report Post Mortem:
https://coinraritiesonline.com/road-report/
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
GACC Fort Lauderdale April 1 - 4, 2025 Broward County CC, this per the sign up form (as previously noted).
So initially I was ready to go to the GACC shows. There were only two initially and in Tampa. Things didn't go as planned and wound up in Fort Lauderdale (above) and Rosemont in Sept after the initial Tampa. Then the initial Tampa show happened and as known to many had poor public attendance and a few other items but seemed fairly well executed for an initial show.
However, there was and still is for some after the Tampa show, negative and/or questions about the Fort Lauderdale show. Some of these were (there are more) - It is the week following the Baltimore show (just like Tampa after Long Beach) - The Tampa public attendance - The dates of April 1 - 4 are during Spring Break and Fort Lauderdale is a popular spring break location, which brings up a few questions / concerns.
Now, I am recently told, there is a music festival about the same time. So I searched for it and found Tortuga music festival April 4 - 6 (so at end of GACC or maybe arriving during). I was curious about GACC location and room rates for Tortuga festival (unknown what the GACC will be but hopefully half or less of Tortuga and again this is for Tortuga below). So below is a screen shot of the Tortuga hotel map (room rates $400 -/+) and I put a red dot/star when the convention center is (unfortunately not a long distance away). However, perhaps for some this is a positive thing, a festival to attend at the end of the coin show.
It will be interesting to see how this develops and from the past I have seen or heard the negatives on shows but then some give in and go. Claim it is a can't miss a show mentality thing. This one appears to have a hill to climb (if I made that a mountain to climb then could cue Elvis
).
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
>
I just did a quick search of hotels in the Hollywood area where I reside for the dates of 31 March to 5 April, 2025. Plenty of accommodations ranging from approximately $110 a night on up are still available. Stay on the beach anywhere in FLL/Hollywood/Aventura/Miami and you will always pay a premium. The prices generally do not move much as people who generally travel here for beach fun don’t mind paying extra to walk out the hotel doors right onto the sand. So the early bird will get the much more affordable places to stay if they look now. Cheers, karl
That might help. Hollywood looks to be a few miles away and certainly not a problem for many with Uber and such. Coin shows typically try to find hotel rooms within a few blocks or even across the street from the show convention center. As noted hopefully GACC can get some for half the price shown on that festival map. I was kind of hoping to see the convention center more removed from the area (like in Hollywood or similar) as I did not recall from the prior FUN.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Hollywood is pretty close with several nice places on US-1 to grab a nice dinner (Jaxson’s, Granpa’s Dania Beach Casino, etc.). I would say from the convention center those places are about 10-12 minutes away…and just south of the FLL airport. There are also a few new hotels on US-1 too. Hopefully those wanting to attend will find reasonable accommodations…and great weather while they are here!
Any inaugural show is going to have a tough time with attendance, but all things considered I think it was well done and I’ll definitely be attending the FT Laura show, I’m a sponsor actually.
As far as I know most college spring breaks are done by the end of march, and it’s still early enough before the snowbirds go back up north shortly thereafter. I think if there was a live auction there, it could help big time with the attendance, and I will pass along my thoughts to Larry about the vouchers for the attendance fee. Hell, I’ll take all of the vouchers if people want to sell them to someone else for $10 or 50c on the dollar.
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Surprised no mention of dates and details on their website about their upcoming FtLauderdale show being only 6 months away.
Guess they figure no rush to do and no need to promote in advance.
Also parking at convention center is $20.gacc.show
Absolutely on the new show attendance and especially when trying to do a larger show that relies somewhat on people traveling longer distances (long drive or flying) and staying overnight versus a small local show that tries to get people in the metro area or similar to show up.
I hope my posts don't come off as anti-GACC as that is not so. Just forwarding what I hear. For instance as far as the spring break a dealer mentioned it at Tampa and then I heard it from others. As previously stated, it might not matter how much the spring break actually impacts the show because it is in the 'heads' now and after Tampa maybe not willing to take a chance on it. Similarly, the music festival I heard from someone that I know did not look it up. So they had to be told and indicating again that there is some talk going on. After being told I did look it up and found it not to be during the GACC but at the end. I did want to note the hotel prices as the one at the bottom is close to the CC and I wonder if GACC can get room blocks below $200 again.
Monday morning quarter-backing there are some things I would note. The Tampa show set out to go big (my words) and came up short. I do agree it was fairly well organized (as previously stated) and I kind of expected that with Larry's past experience with ANA and CSNS. So the MMQB I would have a smaller target and try to overachieve. The low budget annex area, cancel for now and put all dealers in one room (in Tampa the annex got cancelled and this is what happened). The displays in the middle of the bourse, again cancel that. It just presents somewhat empty tables, spreads the dealers and attendees further apart. Do typical display area. That stage area with presenters / talkers. If inside the bourse area to bring in more people, then don't have the stage and speakers pointing out into the bourse. Turn the stage 90 degrees (or a little more) and have the speakers point to empty area in the front or back of room. Some of the presentations just created noise for those on the bourse to overcome. Forget the special security times for attendees to explore the area (this was cancelled at Tampa). While the dealer day worked fairly well for Tampa just do it in the bourse area (remember I am cancelling the low budget annex so those rooms don't need to be rented). The $15 cover charge to 'keep the riff raff out' was also mentioned by several. I like one idea of doing $5 as the riff raff isn't going to pay anything and then if people apply online at least a week ahead, then make it free. I am forgetting stuff I know. The point is to focus on doing the best mid-size more standard show as possible and build for there. Avoid starting big and building down (or cancelling things). Oh, keep the idea of the auction companies not being up front and the first thing someone sees when they walk in. I agree with Larry that dealers with collectable coins should be up front.
Thought on auctions. Years ago the auctions were kind of big coin show items. Many well attended and some went to midnight and beyond. Let's fast forward to today and all the online bidding possibilities. In-between these two the auction attendance slowly dropped as the online bidding became more versatile and reliable. There would be some who would be at a show and prepare for the auction by getting something to eat and going to their room. In their room between auction lots they could eat, talk on the phone, do inventory, work on sales, work on upcoming lots and not disturb or be disturbed (be more comfortable). Auction attendance slowly went down and the auction room more empty than full mostly. And of course covid shut it down.
So when discussing auctions at shows I think they would need to be somewhat special like a Bass to attract significant attendance. Typical auction lots may result in similar results to mostly empty auction rooms. Also not many would travel any distance for the typical lots. Another thing is auction results. Do they improve? Is there a reason for the auction company to travel all the people necessary to put on the on-site auction and their equipment and setup and with reliable internet. If special lots were done (like a platinum nights) and expectations came up short, would this cause consigners to question why it was done onsite versus the now new normal with all the other lots? I don't know.
Ok, that above reminds me of:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Agreed. I don’t want to see anyone here on a “Coin Collectors Gone Wild” video!
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
The GACC website now shows a small (partial) update for a Rosemont Show Sept. 23 -27, 2025.
https://www.gacc.show
There is nothing I could see about the previously noted Fort Lauderdale April 2025 show.
(it was rumored that it was going to be cancelled - has it?)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Looking forward to the 2025 show in Rosemont since I will be unable to travel to OK City for the 2025 ANA.
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How much does local attendance go into promotion decisions?
Surely they have an expectation based on past shows.
FUN success in January can't be all from a numismatic Woodstock of sorts.
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When companies try to hide things, the Internet Archive can be your friend
https://web.archive.org/web/20240908192740/https://www.gacc.show/20240904-2025-shows-announcement-chicago-fort-lauderdale-great-american-coin-collectibles.html
In this case, they've been quite clear, had you looked (the link to the original presser is still posted, btw), their website clearly says FtL is cancelled, https://www.gacc.show/20241219-gaccs-chicago-2025.html
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Thanks, I did look but didn't see it. I found it now. As you noted under Press Room link and then new 2025 schedule link. Noted as Dec 19, 2024 dated. So officially cancelled as was rumored a couple months ago. Sometimes those rumors come true.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
"Local" attendance? All a promoter cares about is total attendance.
FUN success actually is from a "numismatic Woodstock of sorts." It's an ideal location at an ideal time of the year, and collectors and dealers do indeed flock to it from all over the country.
California certainly has a critical mass of local numismatists, but shows there tend to suck because they have a difficult time drawing from outside the West Coast. If a promoter could get 5-10K people from a local area to attend a show, it would be one of the best shows in the country, without a single person from outside the area.
The fact is that simply does not happen. So, again, promoters are agnostic with respect to where attendance comes from, but they must be cognizant of the fact that local attendance alone will not support anything other than a local show.
So local attendance is important for the local monthly whatever show, but means pretty much nothing at all for a national show, as GACC aspires to be. Which is precisely why Ft. Lauderdale is cancelled, even though there would certainly be strong local attendance for such a show.
After seeing what happened in Tampa, and realizing FUN already runs two very decent shows in Florida, the promoters likely realized that there is no national market for a spring show in the state. Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, Orlando, Key West, Jacksonville, wherever.
So they are staking their claim in Rosemont, hoping to pick up everyone who would otherwise go to the WFOM, but won't make the trip to OKC. I don't think they are going to be any more successful than they were in Tampa, because the draw in Rosemont is the ANA as well as the location, not merely the lovely convention center.
In our Press Release we stated Fort Lauderdale has been cancelled. In order to maximize production & turnout, the operators have since decided to combine the resources from both 2025 shows into ONE. We anticipate a return to the Florida Market soon. Rosemont will be a blockbuster.
We don’t hide things. Our Press release announcement of our two other shows was on September 4th. We released a new update on December 19th explaining that we have cancelled Fort Lauderdale and decided to combine both shows resources into ONE. Responding to another forum member: I have spoken to many dealers that have no interest in attending the OKC ANA Show. Rosemont provides a perfect balance of accessibility and attendance.
I will be attending the ANA show as usual and will not go to the Rosemont show.
I truly wish you nothing but the best. But, as an objective observer having the benefit of seeing how both your Tampa show and IMEX's 2023 Nashville show went, it looks to me like you are going to have your work cut out for you establishing a new, national "blockbuster" show.
Maybe if the ANA just went away. Otherwise, it is unlikely you will have a "blockbuster" anything a month after the WFOM. You will benefit by attracting some who won't go to OKC, and will otherwise pick up some folks willing to do 2 big shows a month apart.
But you are the new guys looking to gain traction, and won't be getting the benefit of the doubt after Tampa. That will make it difficult for you to make a splash.
If so, after 2 so-so efforts and a cancelled show in between, it will be VERY difficult for you to gain traction going forward. And that's assuming there is even a market for another big national show, given the existing national, regional and local offerings.
The Tampa show last September was a great start to our GACC Shows. Mark my words attendance for Rosemont will NOT be an issue. Like I have said before, I have spoken to many dealers and majority of them have no interest in heading to OKC for the ANA Show. We are not the “new guys” in the business, Shepherd Expos Management also ran the Central States Show 2023 and it was a big success. Tampa was our first show, and I have full optimism on Rosemont being a blockbuster. FUN didn’t turn into an eventful show overnight, remember that. IMEX has several issues, one was the location, and the venues.
Me thinks the laddie doth protest too much. The reality is that it will take several years to get a new show established and shows generally seem to be on a down curve.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Partially agree. Totally agree with protesting too much. Don't really agree with shows being on a downtrend. Shows got killed during the pandemic, but really do seem to have come back strong. Other than onsite live auctions.
To me, it's more like the calendar is saturated, and there does not seem to be an unmet need for a new national, for profit show. IMEX had its issues unique to it. Same for GACC.
It might have taken FUN time to get itself established, but, OTOH, it did not have to compete with a FUN when doing so. GACC is now trying to break into a market after a so-so first effort and a cancelled second one. At the same time ANA scaled back from 3 shows to 2, and IMEX flopped before now promising "the Largest & Most Exciting Coin Show in America!"
Lots of empty words. Again, I wish everyone nothing but success, but it's time to stop talking and start producing.
GACC will undoubtedly have an advantage in 2025 with ANA choosing OKC for next year's WFOM. No such luck in the future with Pittsburgh and then likely Rosemont on the horizon for near future WFOMs.
GACC might not be the “new guys” in the business, but it IS a new show, and Shepherd Expos Management certainly didn't make Tampa the "blockbuster" they are now promising for Rosemont, and didn't prevent them from publicly promising a Ft. Lauderdale show they later had to cancel.
"Full optimism" is easy. Execution? Not so much.
Like IMEX, GACC, as well as the rest of us, only gets one chance to make a first impression. Now they have to overcome "Tampa was our first show" and "Ft. Lauderdale was our aborted second show" and produce a promised "blockbuster" in the vacuum left by the ANA in Rosemont this year.
Having the WFOM be in OKC will help. Having it be a mere month prior will not. Neither will GACC's track record to date. It's unlikely anyone in 2023-25 has the runway FUN or Whitman did when they first got going to create something. Time will tell, but the results so far do not inspire confidence.
And again, seriously, it would be great for everyone if it turns out to be the blockbuster promised. Same for IMEX, 3 weeks earlier and a week and a half after the WFOM. As for me, after Tampa 2024 and Nashville 2023, I've had my fill of Kool-Aid for the time being, and would now like to see less talk and more action.
To be honest, I really, really, do NOT want to have to go to OKC and would love for the Rosemont GACC to take their place in such a convenient venue. Since virtually everyone will be unable to get a direct flight, I could see that being a substantial problem for all of us here in the US, and a colossal problem for the world dealers.
@tjrarecoins - How will you guys be handling the funds collected, sponsorship and the selected tables now that the show is cancelled, I assume it will carry over with those dealers having first preference at the rosemont show? You can message me privately or email if you want.
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I will get back to you on this question. I will email you.
Happy Holidays.
Understood. And, as I said, if the ANA just went away, perhaps these guys could step in and take their place.
As it stands, though, that is not happening. Lots of folks, for political, loyalty, habit, or other reasons, WILL be making the trip to OKC. Perhaps under duress, but they will be going.
Others will skip it. Now, do they take a shot on Rosemont, after Tampa and then Ft. Lauderdale, on what will undoubtedly be a cannibalized show at best?
Or do they just satisfy themselves with summer FUN, Long Beach, Central States, Whitman, whatever while waiting for winter FUN 2026 and then the 2026 WFOM in Pittsburgh? Only the most dedicated will hit OKC in mid August, Nashville in early September, and then Rosemont in late September.
So it's not taking anyone's place. It might or might not fill a vacuum for a year, until the WFOM gets back to more popular locations.
The question is whether there is really room for another for-profit entry in the arena? The early indication seems to be a resounding no, regardless of whether or not Rosemont attracts a bit of a crowd in 2025 due to the WFOM being in OKC.
Would anyone consider attendance at half the level of winter FUN or a Rosemont or Pittsburgh WFOM to constitute a "blockbuster" show? Because that's right around the best I can see for this.
Probably on par with what the WFOM will see in OKC. After which, you can be sure the ANA won't be going back there. If GACC can feast on the ANA's leftovers, good for them. But I would not consider that to be a "blockbuster" show that I would clear space on my calendar to attend.
I will be at the ANA in OKC but will not attend Nashville or Rosemont.
Will there be a major Heritage or Stacks auction for the 2025 Rosemont show?
Sunshine Rare Coins
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How come you did not come on this boards with the “Press Release “ stating that the show was cancelled? or just have us guessing if on or not!
Just admit it and move on rather than trying to hide it in a *press release ** only on website.
Maybe I’m disconnected a bit, but traveling 50% for a living, I don’t see the world falling apart due to a connecting flight. I mean, it’s better than a stage coach.
You're right. The world also won't fall apart if a coin show is skipped.
Dealers have enough hassles traveling around the country with expensive inventory. Connecting flights do not need to be among them. Particularly when there are several opportunities throughout the year that do not involve them.
It's a legitimate concern, no one is required to attend any particular show, and the final attendance tally will show that @PeakRarities's concerns are not unfounded. Particularly when you consider that the issue also impacts members of the public.
Less public attendance at a show translates into less good shows for dealers, magnifying the hassle of traveling in the first place. With or without a connecting flight. Just ask any dealer who attended the last show in Nashville or Tampa whether the squeeze was worth the juice in light of the public attendance.