Any luck tonight at Stack's?

Abuelo

Prices were strong. Anyone brought home a new coin?

PillarDollarCollector

How about yourself? No coins on my list.

PillarDollarCollector

The only coin I followed was the 1733 1 real that sold for 456$. Since I already own the same variant I did not bid. But after seen the price this evening glad I got mine at what I consider a descent price.

https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-15XU5H/mexico-real-1733-mx-mf-mexico-city-mint-philip-v-pcgs-genuine-holed-fine-details

But they made a mistake in the description this is not the 1st year of the issue that would be 1732:

KM-75.1; Cal-502. The RARE first year of issue for this milled type, and quite desirable as such despite the noted hole.

SimonW

I noticed the same “mistake” but I wonder if they consider the 1732 a non-standard issue. A trial strike or something like that.

threefifty

Tried for a few War of Independence 8Rs but got nuked from orbit. I thought it probably had the best selection I've seen for War of Independence since the Plus Ultra sale... so maybe the strong prices were to be expected. The auctioneer in costume was a nice touch, lol.

pruebas

It’s still running. Over 11 hours!

I was blown out on my one lot of interest. More tomorrow.

The W4I selection was indeed great, but I couldn’t stand the “costumed” auctioneer. He’s bad enough normally, but was incredibly intolerable tonight.

PillarDollarCollector

@SimonW said:
I noticed the same “mistake” but I wonder if they consider the 1732 a non-standard issue. A trial strike or something like that.

Possible. But is the 1732 with F assayer truly a trial piece would make no sens. I assume that the ones without the F assayer are not trials either since all are well circulated but I could be wrong.

Zwiggy

Pricing before the live auction started was lower than expected on a few lots I was looking at - so had a lot of hope. But just looks like everyone held their bids for the live auction! Final bids were super high - 0 for 3 till now.

SimonW

@PillarDollarCollector said:

@SimonW said:
I noticed the same “mistake” but I wonder if they consider the 1732 a non-standard issue. A trial strike or something like that.

Possible. But is the 1732 with F assayer truly a trial piece would make no sens. I assume that the ones without the F assayer are not trials either since all are well circulated but I could be wrong.

I’m not saying I agree, I just don’t think it was an oversight. That’s pretty big bonehead if it was an accident.

U1chicago

I found these interesting (not enough to win as both seemed to go for strong money). I liked the color and am guessing that is what fueled the bidding?

pruebas

@U1chicago said:
I found these interesting (not enough to win as both seemed to go for strong money). I liked the color and am guessing that is what fueled the bidding?

I didn't find these to be strong prices. High-ish grade early Republic 2 Reales for $3-400 seems cheap to me. They are scarcer than the 8 Reales.

pruebas

I bought a few modern medal lots for resale. It seemed to be a substantial (though haphazard) collection that was formed quite a while ago.

Modern medals are what the new, younger Mexican numismatic buyers are collecting as they are priced out of coins (that and many people start with modern stuff). Many have gone up 10-fold in the 25 years I have been hoarding them. (I won't say I collect modern medals even though I have a substantial hoard.)

scubafuel

Wow, those 2r do seem pretty cheap.

PillarDollarCollector

@scubafuel said:
Wow, those 2r do seem pretty cheap.

Great eye appeal on those 2 coins.

ChopmarkedTrades

I was not a bidder on anything in this most recent sale, but I was watching a few lots to see where they landed. This 1846-GC Eight Reales with chopmarks is a rare combination, the mint is very rare with chopmarks (the two in this sale were the first I had seen in five to six years of casual auction monitoring). Most chopmarked Cap & Rays Eight Reales date to after 1855 or so, when the type started be imported to China in quantity. This example had the most eye appeal of the pair, and brought an impressive $2,160 against a $250-400 estimate.

U1chicago

@pruebas said:

@U1chicago said:
I found these interesting (not enough to win as both seemed to go for strong money). I liked the color and am guessing that is what fueled the bidding?

I didn't find these to be strong prices. High-ish grade early Republic 2 Reales for $3-400 seems cheap to me. They are scarcer than the 8 Reales.

Is AU high though? The 1826 has several MS graded and the only other sale was $384 for an MS 64 in 2018. The 1859 didn’t have any others graded for the overdate. I found something from the date in a lower grade that some seller sold for $100 (linked below).

https://www.cgcoins.com/products/1859-go-ngc-vf-30-mexico-2-reales-guanajuato-mint-silver-coin-21092203c?variant=39548791291990

Also, is the demand there for 2R? They might be scarcer but aren’t there a lot more collectors for 8R pieces?

pruebas

@U1chicago said:

@pruebas said:

@U1chicago said:
I found these interesting (not enough to win as both seemed to go for strong money). I liked the color and am guessing that is what fueled the bidding?

I didn't find these to be strong prices. High-ish grade early Republic 2 Reales for $3-400 seems cheap to me. They are scarcer than the 8 Reales.

Is AU high though? The 1826 has several MS graded and the only other sale was $384 for an MS 64 in 2018. The 1859 didn’t have any others graded for the overdate. I found something from the date in a lower grade that some seller sold for $100 (linked below).

https://www.cgcoins.com/products/1859-go-ngc-vf-30-mexico-2-reales-guanajuato-mint-silver-coin-21092203c?variant=39548791291990

Also, is the demand there for 2R? They might be scarcer but aren’t there a lot more collectors for 8R pieces?

You are right. Very few collectors of First Republic minors these days, which lowers prices. I was just going by my gut on the pricing. I still think they are cheap. Hopefully one day, that will correct itself. And that MS64 coin was CHEAP but for the same reason--demand.

Probably the few collectors of these things have enough money to buy them all in MS grades.

And that VF you linked, it's not even in the same league. Those are average grade.

OriginalDan

@ChopmarkedTrades said:
I was not a bidder on anything in this most recent sale, but I was watching a few lots to see where they landed. This 1846-GC Eight Reales with chopmarks is a rare combination, the mint is very rare with chopmarks (the two in this sale were the first I had seen in five to six years of casual auction monitoring). Most chopmarked Cap & Rays Eight Reales date to after 1855 or so, when the type started be imported to China in quantity. This example had the most eye appeal of the pair, and brought an impressive $2,160 against a $250-400 estimate.

I underbid that one. I'll be happy with a hole in my chopmarked mint set and $2000 in my pocket.

U1chicago

@pruebas said:

@U1chicago said:

@pruebas said:

@U1chicago said:
I found these interesting (not enough to win as both seemed to go for strong money). I liked the color and am guessing that is what fueled the bidding?

I didn't find these to be strong prices. High-ish grade early Republic 2 Reales for $3-400 seems cheap to me. They are scarcer than the 8 Reales.

Is AU high though? The 1826 has several MS graded and the only other sale was $384 for an MS 64 in 2018. The 1859 didn’t have any others graded for the overdate. I found something from the date in a lower grade that some seller sold for $100 (linked below).

https://www.cgcoins.com/products/1859-go-ngc-vf-30-mexico-2-reales-guanajuato-mint-silver-coin-21092203c?variant=39548791291990

Also, is the demand there for 2R? They might be scarcer but aren’t there a lot more collectors for 8R pieces?

You are right. Very few collectors of First Republic minors these days, which lowers prices. I was just going by my gut on the pricing. I still think they are cheap. Hopefully one day, that will correct itself. And that MS64 coin was CHEAP but for the same reason--demand.

Probably the few collectors of these things have enough money to buy them all in MS grades.

And that VF you linked, it's not even in the same league. Those are average grade.

That makes sense and the MS 64 was pre-2020 bump, so some of those comps aren’t great nowadays. I also agree that the VF was much weaker but it was all I could find while researching. If either of those 2R were MS (or I saw them in hand), I would have bid higher but in AU I figured it was more of a risk (TrueView photo could be too much better than the in hand look).

pruebas

@OriginalDan said:

@ChopmarkedTrades said:
I was not a bidder on anything in this most recent sale, but I was watching a few lots to see where they landed. This 1846-GC Eight Reales with chopmarks is a rare combination, the mint is very rare with chopmarks (the two in this sale were the first I had seen in five to six years of casual auction monitoring). Most chopmarked Cap & Rays Eight Reales date to after 1855 or so, when the type started be imported to China in quantity. This example had the most eye appeal of the pair, and brought an impressive $2,160 against a $250-400 estimate.

I underbid that one. I'll be happy with a hole in my chopmarked mint set and $2000 in my pocket.

The money is easy to replace. The coin less so. All my regrets are when I didn't go higher.

PillarDollarCollector

@pruebas said:

@OriginalDan said:

@ChopmarkedTrades said:
I was not a bidder on anything in this most recent sale, but I was watching a few lots to see where they landed. This 1846-GC Eight Reales with chopmarks is a rare combination, the mint is very rare with chopmarks (the two in this sale were the first I had seen in five to six years of casual auction monitoring). Most chopmarked Cap & Rays Eight Reales date to after 1855 or so, when the type started be imported to China in quantity. This example had the most eye appeal of the pair, and brought an impressive $2,160 against a $250-400 estimate.

I underbid that one. I'll be happy with a hole in my chopmarked mint set and $2000 in my pocket.

The money is easy to replace. The coin less so. All my regrets are when I didn't go higher.

Depends on ones budget. Maybe for him 2000$ is a lot of money and not so easy to replace. For some 2000$ can be a full years budget for collecting or a big part of their years coin budget. Not easy to lose a coin so I feel your pain. I am not a rich collector either so you bid what you can and hope for the best.

Some that are rich just can't imagine that 2000$ is a lot of money for the great majority of us collectors when in reality it is. But we still want to have a hobby so we make the best of what we do have. It is easy for the rich to forget that most people are not rich or even close to been rich even if they work hard all their lives. Life is expensive so I understand you dropped out at 2000$.

And the fact that you have a good attitude after losing the coin is a great quality to have in life. Stressing over it is not worth it better to just move on and accept like you are doing. You win some and you lose some but at least you can continue collecting.

Abuelo

I failed myself, as @pruebas mentioned, not going for a fantastic half escudo MS66. I did not see it personally but looked great on pictures. And I was outbid. I regret it like 30 seconds after the gavel closed the lot.

OriginalDan

@pruebas said:

@OriginalDan said:

@ChopmarkedTrades said:
I was not a bidder on anything in this most recent sale, but I was watching a few lots to see where they landed. This 1846-GC Eight Reales with chopmarks is a rare combination, the mint is very rare with chopmarks (the two in this sale were the first I had seen in five to six years of casual auction monitoring). Most chopmarked Cap & Rays Eight Reales date to after 1855 or so, when the type started be imported to China in quantity. This example had the most eye appeal of the pair, and brought an impressive $2,160 against a $250-400 estimate.

I underbid that one. I'll be happy with a hole in my chopmarked mint set and $2000 in my pocket.

The money is easy to replace. The coin less so. All my regrets are when I didn't go higher.

I’ve found this to be true for one of a kind, all there coins. A G y C with chopmarks is a rare find, but this was not one of those coins.

MrEureka

I went after one counterfeit coin for my collection. Figured I had about a 110% chance of buying it, but I ended up not getting it. Hammered at $5500, which is well beyond my comfort level for counterfeits.

PillarDollarCollector

@MrEureka said:
I went after one counterfeit coin for my collection. Figured I had about a 110% chance of buying it, but I ending up not getting it. Hammered at $5500, which is well beyond my comfort level for counterfeits.

Can you post the link?

threefifty

I saw that one! Do you have any ideas why it went so high? I collect counterfeit portrait reales but I have no idea about the market for other types.

pruebas

@OriginalDan said:

@pruebas said:

@OriginalDan said:

@ChopmarkedTrades said:
I was not a bidder on anything in this most recent sale, but I was watching a few lots to see where they landed. This 1846-GC Eight Reales with chopmarks is a rare combination, the mint is very rare with chopmarks (the two in this sale were the first I had seen in five to six years of casual auction monitoring). Most chopmarked Cap & Rays Eight Reales date to after 1855 or so, when the type started be imported to China in quantity. This example had the most eye appeal of the pair, and brought an impressive $2,160 against a $250-400 estimate.

I underbid that one. I'll be happy with a hole in my chopmarked mint set and $2000 in my pocket.

The money is easy to replace. The coin less so. All my regrets are when I didn't go higher.

I’ve found this to be true for one of a kind, all there coins. A G y C with chopmarks is a rare find, but this was not one of those coins.

Fair enough. I am not in your collecting shoes, so don’t know how important the coin was to you.

I’m doing a Mexican PL type set, and I often find myself in those same predicaments.

scubafuel

@pruebas Mexican PL type set sounds fascinating. Is that both silver and gold? Do the tpgs have to agree? There seems to be a fair amount of Mexican gold (minors at least) that have what I would consider PL surfaces as a default, at least compared to US series.

OriginalDan

@MrEureka said:
I went after one counterfeit coin for my collection. Figured I had about a 110% chance of buying it, but I ending up not getting it. Hammered at $5500, which is well beyond my comfort level for counterfeits.

I saw that one, and I'm really curious about the high value. Is it just very rare for the (counterfeit) type, or was there something else about it that drove it up? I'm not used to seeing counterfeits hammer so high.

OriginalDan

@pruebas said:

@OriginalDan said:

@pruebas said:

@OriginalDan said:

@ChopmarkedTrades said:
I was not a bidder on anything in this most recent sale, but I was watching a few lots to see where they landed. This 1846-GC Eight Reales with chopmarks is a rare combination, the mint is very rare with chopmarks (the two in this sale were the first I had seen in five to six years of casual auction monitoring). Most chopmarked Cap & Rays Eight Reales date to after 1855 or so, when the type started be imported to China in quantity. This example had the most eye appeal of the pair, and brought an impressive $2,160 against a $250-400 estimate.

I underbid that one. I'll be happy with a hole in my chopmarked mint set and $2000 in my pocket.

The money is easy to replace. The coin less so. All my regrets are when I didn't go higher.

I’ve found this to be true for one of a kind, all there coins. A G y C with chopmarks is a rare find, but this was not one of those coins.

Fair enough. I am not in your collecting shoes, so don’t know how important the coin was to you.

I’m doing a Mexican PL type set, and I often find myself in those same predicaments.

Mexican PL type set is a fun set to pursue. Looking forward to pictures posted as you build the set.

pruebas

@scubafuel said:
@pruebas Mexican PL type set sounds fascinating. Is that both silver and gold? Do the tpgs have to agree? There seems to be a fair amount of Mexican gold (minors at least) that have what I would consider PL surfaces as a default, at least compared to US series.

@scubafuel it's sort of whatever I want it to be. But yes, all metals, copper to gold. And either NGC or PCGS. I have a few coins that aren't labeled PL either because they are close but not quite there, or else because the TPG didn't label them for some reason. They are placeholders until I find something better.

Since the first coins in the set were Republic 8 Reales, I am doing those by mint. So you can see it will be impossible to complete (do EoMo PL 8Rs even exist?). But I'll have fun with it.

I guess now would be a good time to show my latest addition to the set. I did not buy this in the Stacks auction, nor at USMex, but through a dealer. And I paid dearly for it, hence my comment about regretting about coins that get away.

It's got some adjustment marks which detract, but the provenance more than makes up for it.

MrEureka

@OriginalDan said:

@MrEureka said:
I went after one counterfeit coin for my collection. Figured I had about a 110% chance of buying it, but I ending up not getting it. Hammered at $5500, which is well beyond my comfort level for counterfeits.

I saw that one, and I'm really curious about the high value. Is it just very rare for the (counterfeit) type, or was there something else about it that drove it up? I'm not used to seeing counterfeits hammer so high.

I've never seen another one, but rarity alone doesn't make it a $6600 coin. Two people really wanting it does.

Abuelo

Once again @pruebas does not disappoint with that 8 escudos!

bidask

@pruebas said:

@U1chicago said:

@pruebas said:

@U1chicago said:
I found these interesting (not enough to win as both seemed to go for strong money). I liked the color and am guessing that is what fueled the bidding?

I didn't find these to be strong prices. High-ish grade early Republic 2 Reales for $3-400 seems cheap to me. They are scarcer than the 8 Reales.

Is AU high though? The 1826 has several MS graded and the only other sale was $384 for an MS 64 in 2018. The 1859 didn’t have any others graded for the overdate. I found something from the date in a lower grade that some seller sold for $100 (linked below).

https://www.cgcoins.com/products/1859-go-ngc-vf-30-mexico-2-reales-guanajuato-mint-silver-coin-21092203c?variant=39548791291990

Also, is the demand there for 2R? They might be scarcer but aren’t there a lot more collectors for 8R pieces?

You are right. Very few collectors of First Republic minors these days, which lowers prices. I was just going by my gut on the pricing. I still think they are cheap. Hopefully one day, that will correct itself. And that MS64 coin was CHEAP but for the same reason--demand.

Probably the few collectors of these things have enough money to buy them all in MS grades.

And that VF you linked, it's not even in the same league. Those are average grade.

I think there are very. Few ms 2 reales

MrEureka

@PillarDollarCollector said:

@MrEureka said:
I went after one counterfeit coin for my collection. Figured I had about a 110% chance of buying it, but I ending up not getting it. Hammered at $5500, which is well beyond my comfort level for counterfeits.

Can you post the link?

https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-15YHUX/costa-rica-contemporary-counterfeit-escudo-1838-cr-m-imitating-san-jose-mint-very-fine

bidask

@pruebas said:

@scubafuel said:
@pruebas Mexican PL type set sounds fascinating. Is that both silver and gold? Do the tpgs have to agree? There seems to be a fair amount of Mexican gold (minors at least) that have what I would consider PL surfaces as a default, at least compared to US series.

@scubafuel it's sort of whatever I want it to be. But yes, all metals, copper to gold. And either NGC or PCGS. I have a few coins that aren't labeled PL either because they are close but not quite there, or else because the TPG didn't label them for some reason. They are placeholders until I find something better.

Since the first coins in the set were Republic 8 Reales, I am doing those by mint. So you can see it will be impossible to complete (do EoMo PL 8Rs even exist?). But I'll have fun with it.

I guess now would be a good time to show my latest addition to the set. I did not buy this in the Stacks auction, nor at USMex, but through a dealer. And I paid dearly for it, hence my comment about regretting about coins that get away.

It's got some adjustment marks which detract, but the provenance more than makes up for it.

Wowee !

Abuelo

And tonight at Sedwick, outbid on all the coins...

Boosibri

@Abuelo said:
And tonight at Sedwick, outbid on all the coins...

All of my chips this round are in tomorrows Sedwick sale while my Irish coins go on the block at Stacks around the same time

PillarDollarCollector

@Boosibri said:

@Abuelo said:
And tonight at Sedwick, outbid on all the coins...

All of my chips this round are in tomorrows Sedwick sale while my Irish coins go on the block at Stacks around the same time

Wishing you good luck with the sale and possible purchases!!!

realeswatcher

@U1chicago said:
I found these interesting (not enough to win as both seemed to go for strong money). I liked the color and am guessing that is what fueled the bidding?

When a legit high grade (P64, nice eagle strike) of literally the EXACT same date (1826Mo), sold right before it for under $600 all in, that's certainly a high result. Some of it was clearly the toning... and IDK, honestly, on the 1826 it's nice but sort of bordering on terminal?

The fact that there were only three 2R in the auction also may have spurred some misguided bargain hunting.

realeswatcher

@threefifty said:
Tried for a few War of Independence 8Rs but got nuked from orbit. I thought it probably had the best selection I've seen for War of Independence since the Plus Ultra sale... so maybe the strong prices were to be expected.

There was a thread about War of Independence - I think involving that Congress 8R from Goldberg? - where I commented that basically ANY of that material bought 10+ years back has tripled or more. These results are what I was talking about.

E.G., lesser grade Chihuahua cast 8R - not a particularly uncommon issue - going for $600+??!! Geez.

realeswatcher

@MrEureka
Regarding that Costa Rica/CAR 1838 1E CC... "Only one you've seen" - meaning what exactly? Only CC Costa Rica mint CAR 1E you've seen? Only one of that date?? I feel like I've seen 1 or 2 NG mint CAR 1E CC before... plus I know there are some 1/2E out there. I don't have my files in front of me to see what pics I have saved.

Really interesting piece but just from casually observing CAR CCs in the past, man, that was a nuclear price realized.

Don't know if you extend past the specifically CAR issues, but did you happen to see/buy the 1842 Costa Rica star 1E CC that appeared on eBay a few months back? (believe from an Argentina seller). Was a match to a piece that Sedwick offered some years back.

realeswatcher

@ChopmarkedTrades said:
I was not a bidder on anything in this most recent sale, but I was watching a few lots to see where they landed. This 1846-GC Eight Reales with chopmarks is a rare combination, the mint is very rare with chopmarks (the two in this sale were the first I had seen in five to six years of casual auction monitoring). Most chopmarked Cap & Rays Eight Reales date to after 1855 or so, when the type started be imported to China in quantity. This example had the most eye appeal of the pair, and brought an impressive $2,160 against a $250-400 estimate.

Off the topic of the thread, but two other fun "altered" 1846GC 8R:

Samets

@pruebas said:

>

That's a beauty!

bosox

In addition to my Canadian collecting, I collect these necessity tokens. I think they are kind of neat. Picked these two Algerian ones up from Stacks, as I did not have them. Both of these are quite scarce.

Bailathacl

Picked up an Ancient silver coin from Celtic Britain — the Iceni tribe from the Norwich region. The auction photos and Stacks’ flowery description are attached. I like the possible link to legendary Queen Boudicca.

MrEureka

@realeswatcher said:
@MrEureka
Regarding that Costa Rica/CAR 1838 1E CC... "Only one you've seen" - meaning what exactly? Only CC Costa Rica mint CAR 1E you've seen? Only one of that date?? I feel like I've seen 1 or 2 NG mint CAR 1E CC before... plus I know there are some 1/2E out there. I don't have my files in front of me to see what pics I have saved.

Really interesting piece but just from casually observing CAR CCs in the past, man, that was a nuclear price realized.

Don't know if you extend past the specifically CAR issues, but did you happen to see/buy the 1842 Costa Rica star 1E CC that appeared on eBay a few months back? (believe from an Argentina seller). Was a match to a piece that Sedwick offered some years back.

It's the only 38 I've seen. Could easily be a few more of them out there, but maybe not.

No, I didn't see the 1842. I've seen other 42's - and 25's from the same family - but i'd be curious to see the one you saw a few months ago.

SilverAge3

I bid in the one on 2 November, won 2 lots, got outbid on the lots I most desired
Lots I won

Among lots I lost

realeswatcher

.> @U1chicago said:

I found these interesting (not enough to win as both seemed to go for strong money). I liked the color and am guessing that is what fueled the bidding?

Well hey, who says life doesn't give second chances?!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256295393755

Also, if interested, think most of the Sedwick auction is listed for 2-3x what they were bought for...

ELuis

Wow, little bit twice of what they paid, I have followed several auctions in specific HA and once a coin it is won or sold, it show up right away at 1.5% more of the the won price, e.g $432*1.5=$648 or 432+216(50%)

Now they need to spell right: Guanajuato.

And btw, one can buy a gem MS65 2R at a little less than that amount.

pruebas

@realeswatcher said:
.> @U1chicago said:

I found these interesting (not enough to win as both seemed to go for strong money). I liked the color and am guessing that is what fueled the bidding?

Well hey, who says life doesn't give second chances?!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256295393755

Also, if interested, think most of the Sedwick auction is listed for 2-3x what they were bought for...

Wow! More power to him if he can get close to that price. But given that it got pretty good exposure in a big auction sale, it's doubtful that it was missed originally by anyone remotely interested.

I wonder what these folks do after spending money on coins like this and failing to sell them for double on eBay after a year or two? How does one move on from a coin like this and recoup all their money?

My guess is they take a 20% loss roughly equal to the BP+shipping, but how many of those can be sustained and still run a profitable business?

I can see taking an arbitrage risk on a coin with some form of uniqueness, but not something like this.