Have ..slabs.. removed "hobby" from numismatics?
FrankH
Posts: 982 ✭✭✭✭✭
The Yes/No only pertains to the poll title.
There are probably a lot of different opinions.
The present scene in the "hobby" seems to stress grading as the new primary concern on coin forums.
It "feels" very like a "keeping up with the Joneses" now.
And very little like a .......hobby.
So, either with commentary or just a simple yes or no to the question, please post an opinion.
Poll is anonymous so no hitmen will involved. 
Have ..slabs.. removed "hobby" from numismatics?
This is a private poll: no-one will see what you voted for.
0
Comments
Slabs have furthered numismatic awareness and research dramatically.
As an unfortunate side effect, they now have collectors focusing a bit too much on grade. However, it's much easier to learn about your coins now than it was when everything was raw. This could also be due to the advance of technology, but I think slabs helped considerably.
Coin Photographer.
The "keeping up with the Joneses" aspect arose largely from the popularity of the TPGs' registries. The establishment of registries for slabbed coins was pure marketing genius. I've never been part of any registry, but I can see that "competitive collecting" has become a significant driver in the numismatic market.
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Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
I voted no.
I think they have saved the hobby in a number of ways. By guaranteeing authenticity. By protecting coins from the clumsy or hapless. By helping beginners and the less knowledgeable avoid (for the most part) buying coins with massive problems that are not disclosed.
They're not perfect and there is some downside with the commodification of coins/grades but I think they are overall a huge benefit.
I agree with the effect of the registries. I don't participate in those either.
I am NOT anti-slab. My initial and continuing appreciation of encapsulation is for AUTHENTICITY!
I want the coins in my collection to be real mint product.
yeah, I know I could have said.... "genuine"
I voted No.
Coins are still a hobby to most collectors.
I also think it saved the hobby due to the difficulty of collecting without them.
There are many people who still collect raw coins. I have both raw and slabbed. More raw than slabbed.
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Slabs make the hobby more fun for me. I’ve been collecting for 30years (holy cow, I’m 41) and have never collected without the availability of slabs, or the internet, for that matter.
In my lifetime I can’t imagine things like responding to an ad in a magazine trusting that I’d be sent a quality raw coin.
Also, in my early days, even though I couldn’t afford to buy slabs, they were available to help my grading skills and compare to.
I don’t compete in registries but I think high end collecting (probably most collecting) has always been competitive. Now it’s just easier to play the game and use a 3rd party opinion to keep score.
So many coins were ruined ... so many shenanigans were played ... so much abuse of grade opinion versus price ... so uneven a playing field unless you really were 'inside the ropes" (and even then) ... so much misunderstanding.
As much as my 1988 self has a hard time saying it, and as imperfect as it still is, TPG grading and encapsulation helped the hobby in the long run. A lot.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I can remember DECADES when I could not collect many coins because I had NO way of knowing if they were authentic.
I can remember telling young family members they COULD NOT touch or see my coins because they might harm them.
I can still remember getting ripped off by coin dealers who could take advantage of the fact that I was thousands of miles away and they were insiders who could send trash and claim I was the one trying to cheat them!
Slabs saved coin collecting. Period. james
Before third party grading (ANACS certification certificates and slabbing by the major grading services), buying coins mail order resulted in wasting a lot of money returning over-graded, cleaned, counterfeit, ATed, tooled, etc coins. I almost quit collecting coins but when ANACS leveled the playing field around 1980 it made buying mail-order coins feasible.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Slabs are for investing.
Hobbies are for enjoying and sharing.
My child learned how to respect and handle and enjoy my coin hobby from the age of 5.
peacockcoins
This deserves to be reposted and pinned. You made an old fat man smile Mr.B
yes somewhat, i believe that as far as it goes the fewer are going to know how to grade otherwise no, jmo
No I am not an expert grader by any means so I trust the hobby a lot more having coins already graded by experts. I know there can errors or whatnot but they are minor.
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
I trust PCGS/NGC any day over a dealer selling me a coin and telling me the grade he believes it is. Just common sens really. I mean there are honest dealers but I don't want to lose my pants till I find one.
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
WOW Braddick. I got that exact coin collecting kit for Christmas in 1967.
20 years ago I had over 800 raw coins and a few slabs. When I thought about the cost of have 800 coins slabbed in plastic, I figured I would rather put my money into real metal coins and not plastic.
Fast forward 20 years and I have over 800 coins slabbed as mint error coins and just a few raw coin. I did change my thinking on slabbed vs raw coinage. My thinking evolved over time.
Now, I only buy slabbed coins or raw coins that I plan on getting entombed in plastic.
No.
My follow-up question to you is why should they have?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Why should what have what ?
It appears that the question was too complex. I should have said, "grading" instead of "slabs."
Your question was "Have ..slabs.. removed "hobby" from numismatics?" and my response was to ask why should slabs have removed "hobby" from numismatics?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I think slabs have helped the hobby. They (nearly) assure authenticity in a world of increasingly good fakes, they give the novice security in what they are getting, remove fear of getting swindled when buying. And they provide a lesson in grading to the less experienced,
Raw coins are still fun and I still collect them, but only less valuable stuff where I can afford to eat the occasional loss.
I still used the wrong word.
For instance, I began with raw and then to ANA photocert and then to slabs. All in the quest for authentication.
Then, using Legend's example of going to CAC stickers, it made absolute sense in a fairly uniform "store of value" effect.
So... I am not deriding slabs per se but rather trying to figure out if the new grade "evolution/change" is something I want in my hobby.
IOW, I am becoming disenchanted with yet another change in grading standard though not in the authentication part.
AND I WILL NOW EDIT ...THIS...POST TO SAY, ....SLABS ARE NOW JUST ...PART...OF THE HOBBY.
For many coin buyers, coins went from "hobby" to "investment".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Gee, wish I'd thought a that.
Not for me. I collected before the slab era and continue to collect during it. I just ignore the parts of the hobby that do not interest me.
I call it marketing perfected.
From the GSA and Redfield Hoard to the trust of the TPG's.
There is something for everyone.
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Yes, I have my 208 page copy of Bowers' "High Profits from Rare Coin Investment."
Publication date 1974.
I love slabs
...
The intent of tpg and slabbing was to minimize the risk of buying counterfeit or grossly over paying for grossly over graded coins. With some exceptions it has accomplished that goal. I think the registry set phenomena has played a bigger part in the competitive side of the hobby (I'm not saying all participants are in it for the competition).
Without reputable TPGs, I couldn't have much fun in this hobby, since I have no good coin shops within driving distance. That requires that I buy my coins online; buying a slabbed coin from a reputable dealer takes a large part of the risk away. So I am a fan of slabs.
That said, yes, for some people, it becomes competitive. But I have no problem with them having their fun (however they define "fun"), while I have mine (which does not include competitive collecting).
They do offer some reassurance to those who cannot, or choose to not, learn how to grade coins. That allows more to come off the sidelines who wouldn’t have otherwise had the confidence. They also create a much quicker liquidation capability and likely a higher ROI.
The downside is that I’m sure they’ve driven prices upward which as a buyer, primarily, sucks.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
They made it safer to buy, sell and invest. If this makes it less of a hobby, then it was done in a good way.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
100% agree .. But to me there is a Reason it's the "Professional Coin Grading Service".
100% to help protect the investment because they have priced Third party independent grading out of the Hobby arena. And now you have to get 4th party and at Stacks Bowers you really need their 5th party sticker...
I love coins. I just love them more Raw...
Hobby's a hobby. You can collect coins any way you want. Some people like albums, some people like slabs. Some people like raw coins. Nothing will ever take the "hobby" out of numismatics. A change in variance does not
de-hobbyize numismatics.
I voted no.
I was not a fan of slabs when they were introduced, but they have reduced many of the abuses that plagued the hobby. Counterfeit, altered and processed coins gave the pursuit of coin collecting a bad name among those have been scammed. Slabs have greatly reduced, but not done away with those problems entirely. I don’t think that anything could eliminate those issues.
Today when counterfeiting has become worse than ever, slabs play a vital role in combating it.
Unfortunately, the counterfeiters are getting better at counterfeiting slabs. Fortunately, it's not as much of a problem for those who know how to grade and authenticate the coins that they collect.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
They are an integral part of the hobby for many/most numismatists.
Actually they are a hobby by themselves. Personally I am buying rattlers if the grading is conservative enough. I like the look and size.
So they have added a subset to the hobby of numismatics.
I have both slabbed and not slabbed coins and notes, slabs aren’t inherently bad or good. In some ways they improved the hobby for example giving an unbiased opinion on grading, but in others they added competition to what was a hobby. Conditional rarities, hyper competitiveness of the registry sets, creating a keep up with the joneses mentality.
If you are like me, slabs add a financial protection to the hobby, but they also added a less enjoyable experience, as I really enjoy looking through albums, but when a coin gets up into the $$$ I’m reluctant to buy it for an album. So in some cases like doing a high grade 7070, only make financial sense in doing it slabbed.
There is the option of using slabs when needed and raw when it makes sense.
My current registry sets:
20th Century Type Set
Virtual DANSCO 7070
Slabbed IHC set - Missing the Anacs Slabbed coins
I voted "no", simply because slabs are an entirely optional aspect of numismatics. You can roll-hunt for errors, or even just fish out a date-and-mintmark set from change, and never have to worry about slabbing, and everything that goes with slabbing.
Slabs are really just a symptom of the increasing cost of the high-end of the numismatic market. There's big money to be made in high-end coins, and even bigger money if you can get away with ripping people off with fakes, mis-identified and overgraded coins, and slabs help protect that value. But if you can't be bothered collecting high-end and would never pay more than double face value for a coin, then you can still "enjoy the hobby" just as much as someone who's got thousands of dollars of discretionary income they can afford to splurge on it, and you can do it completely slab-free.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
Did you say the Hatfields and McCoy 😂
I get the sneaky suspicion somebody ruined a very expensive coin on the same day this slabbed idea was born.
And if not whatever no big deal I sure do like them because I can’t hurt my coins when they drop.
I chose no on the poll. As an online buyer with little access to coin shops in my area, I get a better chance of not buying a coin that has been messed with. I used to love filling albums for the look of them, but the cardboard dust of Dansco albums would drive me crazy. That and either having a hole you don’t want to fill or one that is missing. I don’t like 2x2s with staples or handwriting either. The look of the slabs are much nicer to me and picking up and older stab gives the coin some additional character. The main downside to graded coins is cost of grading, which is why I buy the coin already slabbed, and the additional space they take up.
My Jefferson Registry:
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/191115
Slabs on their own, not at all. Slabs + endless parades of crackouts, stickers, crossovers, coin doctoring and deceptive photography? Maybe.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Body is required.
I guess collecting anything can be considered a hobby.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
No. And you know who has the hardest time keeping up with the Joneses? If you guessed Mr Jones, you're correct.
As has been pointed out TPG's have been a mixed blessing to the hobby and the markets. They have helped in the preservation and authentication of coins to a huge degree. Without them the problem with counterfeits might have destroyed the markets and done extreme harm to the hobby. They have also opened up the hobby and markets to vast swathes of people who otherwise wouldn't collect at all.
Ironically I think they have probably done vast harm to the hobby of modern collecting. At the very least they have set it backs decades. This I believe was caused primarily by the introduction of modern registry sets which focused attention not on the scarcity of nice attractive moderns but on only the highest grades; only grades so high that they are rare. I was a campaigner to get these added but in retrospect I was wrong. These markets should have been allowed to grow organically rather than under layers of accelerants and fertilizer.
Now some of these coins are getting quite elusive in any condition at all and when they are found it's one of the few survivors in circulation in deplorable condition or a tarnish and poorly made specimen in a mint set. Nobody even notices they're gone and all you need to obtain one is find an out of the money slabbed coin for a few dollars.
Yes, of course, there are still lots and lots of beginners and intermediate collectors checking pocket change or scouring mint sets but the total demand is still rather muted because everyone knows registry set collectors have us covered. This places the total demand for nice attractive chUnc moderns at only a few multiples of the number of registry sets. The demand is so weak that nobody notices the extreme rarity of things like nice '84 cents with pleasing surfaces. As made only one mint set in 1000 had such an example and now more than 70% of them have carbon spots or tarnish. Many such rarities exist and go unnoticed either because graders overlook some problems or there is too little demand to separate the common from the rare.
The demand is so weak that nobody notices the extreme rarity of things like nice '84 cents with pleasing surfaces"
Not even most registry set collectors have noticed the unavailability of things like well made '82-P quarters. They are hard enough to find clean but even the clean ones are poorly struck by worn dies. Across the board rarities go unnoticed. Varieties go unreported. Rare coins circulate. Common coins made in huge numbers are almost entirely in circulation except that most have already been lost or destroyed.
This situation was normal in 1995 because everyone hated clads. It doesn't feel normal any longer but rather a result of a most unusual set of causations.