What price sources do you use at shows?
airplanenut
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It's been a long time since I went to shows with any regularity--there was a great monthly show I went to before college, plus maybe a national show or two a year, but now it's typically 2-3 local/regional shows a year. I don't do a ton of buying in general, but if something catches my eye, by all means I'm happy to pick it up.
With that said, back in the day (all you old folks, interpret that however you'd like 
) the main price guide available was Grey Sheet, and if I was lucky, a dealer friend would gift me the prior issue or a dealer whose coin I was interested in would tell me what Sheet said, and I'd go from there. Nowadays, before buying/bidding online, I'll check eBay and Heritage, and when there's a big spread, I'll start looking at what seems to drive the price high or low (beyond the obvious, that nicer coins sell for more). I've never been a huge fan of the PCGS guide for absolutes, but it can be a helpful tool for ballpark figures or relative pricing between grades or similar dates--perhaps one date for a type coin has a lot of recent sales, but I'm looking at a different date: should I assume the pricing is similar or not?
This is all well and good when I'm at home and have time on my side, but at a show, a quick answer is better. If it's a type coin on my want list, I more likely have identified the grade that has the best bang for my buck, but not the actual price it should be. If it's a random coin that just catches my eye, I might have no pricing information with me.
I'm wondering if there are any resources I'm missing, or any other tricks folks have for getting decent pricing information quickly. If I just need to use what I currently do quickly at the risk of missing some data point, I can just do my best. The good news is that I don't usually venture into coins that have big enough prices where I have a ton to lose in total dollars if I get it wrong, other than the potential pride hit of feeling like I paid too much. Then again, I don't sell very often, so I'll just hold for a few decades and if I still don't make out with a profit, I'll just blame the market of the future...
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I start with the greysheet app, and if I need to dive deeper then I will check the GC archives or the PCGS auction archives. With the greysheet app, you simply plug in the PCGS coin number and you get the CDN/CPG Values with all of the recent auction comps. 9/10 times that's all I need to price a coin with reasonable accuracy and it doesn't take long at all.
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Usually I'll go into a show with an idea of how much the items in my wheelhouse should go for.
If I see something outside my list, I'll do a few quick searches. If it's a PCGS coin, I start by entering the cert and checking the coinfacts sales. Then I will go through Heritage, Great Collections, and eBay. Usually all of that can be done relatively quickly. And if it's a lower priced item with great eye appeal, sometimes it's fine to just buy it and research later (although that scenario has been rare in my case).
PCGS coinfacts and on a phone it works more consistently with the App. It has the value view page with grade, pc price, pc pop and most recent auctions (from HA, SB, DL, Leg, Scot and others). There is an eBay button at the top. At the top can select or slide window to a price-pop style listing or auction listing.
However, from the coinfacts home page can go to a pcgs page (using menu bar upper left and selecting one of the lines below Home as home is coinfacts page or by selecting the gold/silver price at bottom). Once on a pcgs page then the menu bar will have the Auction Prices.
Go to this page and select the series, date mm and the auction prices are available for pcgs, ngc and others. Again for multiple auctions - HA, SB, DL, Leg, Scot and others. The default sort is by date but selecting any column title will sort by that. This page there is a Filter and can filter by grade range and other items. There is also an eBay tab to show eBay values.
There is coin world and numismedia that have decent coin price tables (bookmark) but first would definitely get familiar with what the prices generally are relative to other values you are familiar with.
Edit: Can also use collectors corner and the filter to see if any of the collectors corner dealers currently have any and their asking price but of course some caution with this and especially if only a couple.
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RLJ 1958 - 2023
Auction Prices
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Just because you can look up prices based on "past performance" doesn't mean the "dealer" will sell it to you at that level. I have found that you really can't negotiate with that mind set.
You can get a very good idea on how much they have been selling for, but his coin is his coin and he'll ask what he thinks it will bring and how much profit he needs.
They are all "price guides"
JMO
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
The idea isn’t to try to use that info to negotiate but as a tool to know how much you want to spend. Sometimes it’s a coin you know little about but just like the look. If the dealer has it priced close enough to past sales, I’d buy the coin. If it’s multiple times the latest sales and I don’t see anything that justifies the premium, it’s easy to pass. If it’s higher than the recent comps but not excessively so, then I might see if an offer will get it down somewhat.
And of course, if the eye appeal is all there, you can throw out the guides or any past sales (just go with what you can afford).
I will check eBay first then my wallet.
On auction results, do you deduct the auction company premiums and costs? I find PCGS coinfacts a good source but at shows if you buy for cash you are doing the sellers a big favor cutting out all the fees.
Last show I went to, I had a few months old back grey sheet and when I found a coin I liked, I used that as a starting point. I only picked 3 coins and 2 were from Portugal but the 1 US coin was priced around greysheet so I purchased it. My thinking is start at greysheet and see how high I am willing to go. In many cases its not much and I pass on and go look at something else.
My current registry sets:
20th Century Type Set
Virtual DANSCO 7070
Slabbed IHC set - Missing the Anacs Slabbed coins
While examining an expensive coin, have any of you ever asked to borrow the seller's gray sheet?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That could draw some interesting reactions!
You can buy a current single issue for $40 or pick up a month old copy of greysheet off eBay for about $20 - $25 - that’s the cheapest and easiest way to get it unless you have a friend that will give you a copy as a favor.
Like all other guides, there is no magic to it and you can’t get hung up on it or you will be disappointed. If you are buying coins in a retail setting (bourse, auction, LCS) at greysheet, then most likely the market is either falling in price, greysheet doesn’t reflect the current market or you are buying inferior coins for the grade. There’s no Santa Clause in numismatics!
No. One doesn't know what the dealer paid for his coin. If he bought it directly from the auction company, he paid the auction commission. If he bought it from a collector or other dealer, his buy price may be more (edit - or less, of course) than what it sold for at auction all in.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
When I ask to borrow the dealer's Gray Sheet, what if I preface my request by saying "I have a subscription, but I accidentally left my copy at home."?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Given that it's just a guide, it's not an unreasonable request. I recall in days of yore, Greysheets were often given away at shows.
And they don't look askance at you?
Love it! Definitely try it on one of the dealers who is active on social media (CRO, Penny Lady, Ben the Coin Geek, Gerry Fortin) so that we can enjoy hearing about it!
Greysheet values are fairly easy to find for most people, so I don’t see the harm in asking a dealer for it when pricing a coin. If you want them to look askance, ask about the blue sheet value instead 😉
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Graysheet and PCGS price guide. Then I try to come up with a figure that I feel that the coin is worth to me, either more or less.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
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Exactly, the final price including the juice is what the end user paid for the coin. Unless, of course, the auction house bought it 😅
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Latest auction results helps me.
So if a dealer sells a $1000 coin through an auction company that gets 20%, they're netting $800, the coin may have a Greysheet price that reflects the auction hammer price not the dealer to dealer transaction. I've seen potential buyers mention the "net" price as the true Greysheet number. You also have shipping fees that are tacked on to the auction hammer.
If I am at a show looking to buy, I try to be prepared with the GS and with other information sources on my phone. But in the event I am looking at a coin I like and don't have the GS handy, I will just ask the dealer, "What's Greysheet on this?" And they will almost always look it up and tell me what it is. Sometimes they will just hand it to me and let me look it up.
I've done this a number of times and have never had anyone turn me down or take offense. To the contrary, it puts us that much closer to making a deal.
We really don’t need to overcomplicate it that much though. Every auction venue is different, and they different arrangements for different consignors. Some consignors might get 110% of hammer at an AH with 20% bp, so you really can’t determine, with accuracy, what a consignor netted for a given sale.
Auction results are really all that matters, greysheet can be completely irrelevant and inaccurate with thinly traded coins, and private sales aren’t recorded. My point was, when pricing a coin, the final sale price in an auction (including the juice) is assumed to be the price that someone paid to acquire said coin in a public offering. That is how I determine what a coin is actually “worth”, or what it could be sold for in a retail setting. Obviously, if I have a coin that’s “worth” $1200 and I’m selling to another dealer, I’ll probably have to offer it 10-15% back if it’s actual value if not more depending on what it is.
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I believe what @logger7 meant is not about what the dealer might have paid for a coin in his inventory,
but what he might net if he sells it in different venues (auction vs. at a show).
Of course it is still complicated, because although fees are involved in auctions,
auctions also tend to reach a wider audience so they might net more or less even with the fees.
I register every observed public appearance of every certified US silver dollar from Flowing Hairs through Morgans in the SSDC Registry. So when I see one of interest, if it is logged, I have the full auction and dealer inventory history, trueviews, ... If not seen before, I can look at comparables.
Other than that, auction links from coinfacts and the greysheet site, augmented with HA archives (sorted by recent sales first) are quick and easy.
In the end, it comes down to the specific coin offered. Since most I look for are rare with infrequent appearances, it comes down to that potential transaction to set the market for it, should the sale complete.
Of course, show and travel costs often can compare closely with auction fees. I rarely cover the tables and hotels at shows out of profits and too often even out of gross sales. Finding the right balance for organizers is key. For a while, we were in direct competition with auctions running during bourse hours as shows and mostly now not having attendance because of the absence of anchoring auction on premise at all as a draw.
No, because the number that matters is the final amount paid. Put a different way, if I want to spend $1000 on a coin, my bid is going to be around $800 (or whatever amount becomes $1000 when the premium is applied). No buyer ignores the premium when placing a bid, so the all-in amount is the one that really gives an indication of value. The only part of this where there's some wiggle room is sales tax, since not all buyers pay the same amount, and two bidders bidding the same amount could pay different totals all-in. That said, auctions don't show what sales tax was paid, if any, so I think it's fair to ignore it.
"What price sources do you use at shows?"
Same one I use for everything -
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Gut, then CoinFacts + Auction History
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
When I buy a very scarce coin, I use Auction prices plus PCGS prices.
You get more with honey!!! (Don't tell anybody its AI)
Greysheet is for commodity coins. Have to take auction prices from all sources into account and your own judgement on the premium or discount appropriate for the characteristics of the coin. Where most analysis fall short is assuming that special characteristics, eg. eye appear, follow a linear trajectory up or down from the average price. Special coins get special prices which surprise most people.
Latin American Collection
Generally the CDN CPG data in my phone.
Setup at shows may have Banknote Reporter, CPG Magazine, CAC CPG magazine. My offers a pct (varies per Mkt conditions) of my estimate I can sell the item for. Do a lot of procurement biz w whosaler who has swanky shop in another city: stuff walking in he flips at shows - in that arena I just do cost plus. Make it a priority to visit his table before public is let in.
I don't know of any price guide that would use the hammer price and not the all-in price. A coin that sells for $1000 all-in at auction should sell for $1000 in a person-to-person transaction, Period. That is what a person is willing to pay for a coin.
If I buy a coin for $1 + $50 shipping on eBay, it's a $51 coin not a $1 coin.
The flip side of that is that if you had a coin that cost $1000 at a show, you would be willing to pay a $1000 hammer price on the coin and ignore the $250 in transaction fees as though they are nonexistent????
There is no way to know that. If I send it to Heritage and pay the 25 or 30% in fees, my net might be higher than selling it at a show. Show costs can be significant.
Further, that is not the calculation the dealer would ever do since those aren't the only sales options available to them. If I'm selling a coin for $1000 and you offer me $800 because I would only net $750 at Heritage, I'm just going to tell you that I'm not sending it to Heritage. I can actually sell it more cheaply by flipping it to another dealer on a network or selling it on Instagram or in "my" shop if I have a BM. In fact, selling it at the show is likely not the cheapest venue for me.
If you want to do me a favor, drive to my house and buy it so I don't have to drag it to a show and pay the fees to do so.
Superb thread. I use a combination of 'all of the above' on an average, as well as a cost basis to me. If I am in a coin 'right', I try to pass a bit of that along to a customer when possible.
Auctions get blank stares from the tire kickers I see at the local-yokel shows. I certainly agree with the above thoughts on auctions, and I try to use those as a main data point, but in any coin that is thinly traded due to low value or need, or wanted by a certain level of consumer . . . auctions seem to generate a thousand-yard stare.
But other things dramatically affect how I price a coin. Sure, it may NOT sell if I attribute a value that may be non-mainstream in thought, but there also exist some collectors who see things as I do. A certain generation of holder, CAC, tone, eye appeal, key status, originality, and eye appeal (again) may alter my desire to price a coin anything near (or behind) Greysheet.
And I echo the sentiment . . . Greysheet is for generics. They may be expensive generics, but they remain in that class . . . .
Drunner
It’s been my experience over 30 years that dealers at shows have always EXPECTED cash, (or check when they know you), as the payment method. Anything else the price is going up. It’s not so much you’re doing them the favor, but yourself. And yes, I figure auction premiums, taxes, etc. into the selling price history of a coin as that’s what the buyer paid overall for the coin and should’ve felt that was the coins total value.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
Forgot to add, I’ve always felt the best way to determine an overall, immediate value for a coin, based on grade and service alone is eBay. I’ll look at the sold listing for that particular coin and shoot right in the middle. Yes, that doesn’t work well for lightly traded coins. I get it. But for the vast majority there’s simply no way of seeing a more current market value spread. And yes, this is the less than 60 seconds gotta move right now system. Eye appeal, coin skin, originality, and all that jazz is a more personal and nuanced situation that simply requires experience to apply.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.