Is This Key Date 1921S Walker Truly Uncirculated?
Walkerlover
Posts: 935 ✭✭✭✭
I saw this NGC MS 61 1921S Walker advertised for sale and wondered if it is market graded and should be in a AU58+ holder. I see what I think is high point friction on the leg and head of Liberty and back eagle feathers. Maybe some of you grading experts can opine. 
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Walkerfan
Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
Thank you. Here are the auction images. They look suspicious enough to me to want to avoid. The coin sold for over $24,000 just five months ago. I would like to add that this is just my opinion. Nothing against the buyer, the seller or the graders. Maybe they got it right? Maybe they market graded it? All I know is that it is not a coin that I would want in my collection. It does not meet my personal approval.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
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Walkerfan
Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
@rec78 said:
A lot of the early walkers just don't have the strike or details for high grades. A lot pre-1934 Walkers are in the weak strike catagory. Strike means a lot to me. I am always looking for well-struck coins.It means a lot to me, too. But, there is a difference between weak strike and rub. Rub causes gray discoloration and a break in the luster, while a weak strike does not.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
2
Answers
You and I DO see wear in those places. But what bearing does wear like that have on TPG standards for the grade of "uncirculated?"
I doubt it ever circulated. How were they for grading at the time that coin went through? 356000?
Very slight rub perhaps, but I don’t see obvious wear in these photos.
It does appear to have had some handling and a dipping or two over the years.
It looks AU to me. MS61 is a grade that always sets off alarm bells.
I don't know the typical strike for these coins, so I'd have to see it in hand. If there are luster breaks, they are on the eagle's breast, the head, and the primary skirt line. If so, this is an AU coin. If I want an Unc. coin, I get an MS 63 or better to avoid questions like this.
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At first glance it appears AU
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As a PCGS AU58+, it would probably sell for a lot more than as a MS61.
Just asking - does PCGS do AU + grades???
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I saw that coin in a Heritage auction a while back.
I noticed the friction, immediately.
Hard pass for me.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Leaving aside the technical merit of whether it circulated or not ...
I don't think I would call it a 61, from the images.
I don't think PCGS would call it a 61, from the images.
I think it would be valued in the general AU58 money are from people that can grade, and that in itself can be a pretty large range depending on a LOT of factors, including luster, eye appeal, surface preservation, etc.
It looks to have been dipped, from the images, but those images don't do much for understanding true surface quality.
My 2c
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
but those images don't do much for understanding true surface quality.
Absolutely agree….. but if @Walkerfan studied the coin in a Heritage auction and saw friction immediately, that’s good enough for me!
It looks like a weak strike to me, The eye appeal (or the lack of it) makes us think it's an AU from the images....and could well be!
Louis Armstrong
A lighter color on the high points does not necessarily indicate "rub".
The strike is somewhat soft. But I don't see any "rub" in the close-up out-of-slab pictures in the auction:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/walking-liberty-half-dollars/1921-s-50c-ms61-ngc/a/1359-4000.s
Agreed. That grade was issued because they couldn't decide how much "rub", or cabinet friction (if any) would be acceptable for an UNC grade.
Pete
Probably technically UNC, but lightly handled with rub. I am not that fond of it either personally
One needs to just accept that the 1923-s and earlier Walkers are without the details of the later issues- especially 1933 and later. I think the 21-s is just not one of the premier coins for quality- like the 1916 and 1917. I would rather see this one in hand before claiming it is AU. Look luck finding a better one.
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A lot of the early walkers just don't have the strike or details for high grades. A lot pre-1934 Walkers are in the weak strike catagory. Strike means a lot to me. I am always looking for well-struck coins.
Not a coin that I would want.
A thread such as this may help adjust the reasonable expectations bar... if this is a coin you don't appreciate or would not want to own- consider collecting a different series or be prepared to spend buckets of cash to find something better.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I think to be safe you need to consider the coin AU 58+ and proceed cautiously as it has no CAC sticker
Everything seems to have a price...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
No