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Yards per completion all time leaders and understanding pre-1980 NFL football

4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
edited September 8, 2023 2:20AM in Sports Talk

Just look at the leaders and the years they played to understand that these old time QB’s mostly threw the ball on 3rd and 8 or more.
1st and 2nd down in their time was mostly a run.
Not much shotgun. Fullbacks stayed in to block, and mostly three receivers was all they had.
A guy like Montana and Brady are in the 11’s.
There is no QB in the top 35 all time who began his career after 1980.

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    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2023 3:01AM

    Ask Patrick Mahomes to throw on only 3rd down with 8 to 15 yards to go for a first.

    No shotgun. His two backs stay in to block. He’s got three guys to get the ball to 10-15 yards downfield.

    If he’s on a great team that runs well he’s throwing 10-20 times a game. He’s rusty all game and in no zone.

    If like Namath he’s on a Jets team that throws it 30-35x per game because they can’t run the ball.

    If Mahomes and Brady played for the 1970’s Dolphins they would be on no one’s GOAT list. They threw it 10-15x game.

    We don’t give the respect these old timers deserve when we say these new kids are GOATS. They play in pass happy systems that protect the QB. Football back then was brutal.

    Find one of the top 30 y/c leaders with the least amount of picks and he’s a great QB.
    He was throwing downfield into double coverage mostly.

    Everyone says “well Favre threw a lot of picks”. Yeah, he also threw it 30-40 yards downfield a ton. He was also league MVP three consecutive years too.

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    those are some great points on the difference between the modern game and the old timers. I have been an otto graham fan for a few years now after i took a little deeper look at his numbers.

    I fully believe the old timers would be just as good as modern QBs if they had the same advantages as the guys today do.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2023 3:46AM

    Btw. I’m not knocking Mahomes and Brady. Two incredible QB’s.

    However Brady can’t run and he loves the 5-15 yard pass. In the 70’s he’s Ken Stabler.

    Mahomes in the 70’s is Roger Staubach unless he plays for Shula or Knoll. Then he’s not Roger.

    Landry used the shotgun more and Knoll and Shula ran the ball down your throat.

    Yes, RB’s did catch balls back then.
    Emerson Boozer on the pass happy Jets 1 a game. Terrell Davis on Denver in the 80’s 2 per game.

    Because Jim Brown was so great he caught 2 a game. 3 consecutive year 1000 yard rusher Lydell Mitchell caught 3.5 per game for the Colts in the late 70’s 80’s when passing really begins to kick in.

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    perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    But you can't hold it against modern QB's that the system is different now just like you can't fault old timers for playing when they did.

    I've absolutely come to the realization that the only fair way to rank QB's is by decade.

    Nobody will convince me otherwise.

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:
    But you can't hold it against modern QB's that the system is different now just like you can't fault old timers for playing when they did.

    I've absolutely come to the realization that the only fair way to rank QB's is by decade.

    Nobody will convince me otherwise.

    I agree. players from all sports need to be compared to their peers. games have changed too much to compare 50 years apart. the old players would adapt to todays game and vice versa.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2023 5:54AM

    @4for4 said:
    Btw. I’m not knocking Mahomes and Brady. Two incredible QB’s.

    However Brady can’t run and he loves the 5-15 yard pass. In the 70’s he’s Ken Stabler.

    Mahomes in the 70’s is Roger Staubach unless he plays for Shula or Knoll. Then he’s not Roger.

    Landry used the shotgun more and Knoll and Shula ran the ball down your throat.

    Yes, RB’s did catch balls back then.
    Emerson Boozer on the pass happy Jets 1 a game. Terrell Davis on Denver in the 80’s 2 per game.

    Because Jim Brown was so great he caught 2 a game. 3 consecutive year 1000 yard rusher Lydell Mitchell caught 3.5 per game for the Colts in the late 70’s 80’s when passing really begins to kick in.

    I will defend Tommy to the end, and I think he would have been a HOF player had he played in 1940, 1960 or 1980. I also think that Terry Bradshaw would be a HOF quarterback in the modern game.

    While Brady has not rushed for yardage like lamar jackson or vick, he is tough as nails and i would challenge anyone to find a better QB at the sneak than Brady. He also had probably the best pocket awareness of any player i ever saw. He knew where his protection was and it seemed like he could sense where the pressure was coming from. The lightening quick release also didnt hurt.

    He seemed to be saddled as a dink and dunk quarterback during his first few years, but Brady throws a great deep ball. The patriots, however, did not force it in years where he had no real deep threat. He threw great deep balls with Moss and brandin cooks. he also was top of the league in deep passes in 2020 as a 43 year old player. He had a very strong arm, much better than he was given credit for. I saw nearly every Brady game and watched him throw some absolute lasers on out routes.

    Also, check out the pass from the 4th quarter of the first giants SB. he just missed Moss and the ball flew 70 yards on the fly.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know one thing, being a quarterback in the 70s was very hazardous to your health.

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    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:

    @4for4 said:
    Btw. I’m not knocking Mahomes and Brady. Two incredible QB’s.

    However Brady can’t run and he loves the 5-15 yard pass. In the 70’s he’s Ken Stabler.

    Mahomes in the 70’s is Roger Staubach unless he plays for Shula or Knoll. Then he’s not Roger.

    Landry used the shotgun more and Knoll and Shula ran the ball down your throat.

    Yes, RB’s did catch balls back then.
    Emerson Boozer on the pass happy Jets 1 a game. Terrell Davis on Denver in the 80’s 2 per game.

    Because Jim Brown was so great he caught 2 a game. 3 consecutive year 1000 yard rusher Lydell Mitchell caught 3.5 per game for the Colts in the late 70’s 80’s when passing really begins to kick in.

    I will defend Tommy to the end, and I think he would have been a HOF player had he played in 1940, 1960 or 1980. I also think that Terry Bradshaw would be a HOF quarterback in the modern game.

    While Brady has not rushed for yardage like lamar jackson or vick, he is tough as nails and i would challenge anyone to find a better QB at the sneak than Brady. He also had probably the best pocket awareness of any player i ever saw. He knew where his protection was and it seemed like he could sense where the pressure was coming from. The lightening quick release also didnt hurt.

    He seemed to be saddled as a dink and dunk quarterback during his first few years, but Brady throws a great deep ball. The patriots, however, did not force it in years where he had no real deep threat. He threw great deep balls with Moss and brandin cooks. he also was top of the league in deep passes in 2020 as a 43 year old player. He had a very strong arm, much better than he was given credit for. I saw nearly every Brady game and watched him throw some absolute lasers on out routes.

    Also, check out the pass from the 4th quarter of the first giants SB. he just missed Moss and the ball flew 70 yards on the fly.

    Brady was great. A fool would say otherwise.
    He also averaged 1.6 yards per rush which is Ken Stabler like.
    Bradshaw and Staubach averaged 5 yards per rush.
    That’s why I compare Brady to Stabler.

    Archie Manning had a 60% completion rate in the 70’s on a 1-15-0 Saints team.
    Brady had a 60% completion rate on an outstanding Pats team .

    It’s impossible to compare as Perk said from decade to decade. You said that also.

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    daltex

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4for4 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @4for4 said:
    Btw. I’m not knocking Mahomes and Brady. Two incredible QB’s.

    However Brady can’t run and he loves the 5-15 yard pass. In the 70’s he’s Ken Stabler.

    Mahomes in the 70’s is Roger Staubach unless he plays for Shula or Knoll. Then he’s not Roger.

    Landry used the shotgun more and Knoll and Shula ran the ball down your throat.

    Yes, RB’s did catch balls back then.
    Emerson Boozer on the pass happy Jets 1 a game. Terrell Davis on Denver in the 80’s 2 per game.

    Because Jim Brown was so great he caught 2 a game. 3 consecutive year 1000 yard rusher Lydell Mitchell caught 3.5 per game for the Colts in the late 70’s 80’s when passing really begins to kick in.

    I will defend Tommy to the end, and I think he would have been a HOF player had he played in 1940, 1960 or 1980. I also think that Terry Bradshaw would be a HOF quarterback in the modern game.

    While Brady has not rushed for yardage like lamar jackson or vick, he is tough as nails and i would challenge anyone to find a better QB at the sneak than Brady. He also had probably the best pocket awareness of any player i ever saw. He knew where his protection was and it seemed like he could sense where the pressure was coming from. The lightening quick release also didnt hurt.

    He seemed to be saddled as a dink and dunk quarterback during his first few years, but Brady throws a great deep ball. The patriots, however, did not force it in years where he had no real deep threat. He threw great deep balls with Moss and brandin cooks. he also was top of the league in deep passes in 2020 as a 43 year old player. He had a very strong arm, much better than he was given credit for. I saw nearly every Brady game and watched him throw some absolute lasers on out routes.

    Also, check out the pass from the 4th quarter of the first giants SB. he just missed Moss and the ball flew 70 yards on the fly.

    Brady was great. A fool would say otherwise.
    He also averaged 1.6 yards per rush which is Ken Stabler like.
    Bradshaw and Staubach averaged 5 yards per rush.
    That’s why I compare Brady to Stabler.

    Archie Manning had a 60% completion rate in the 70’s on a 1-15-0 Saints team.
    Brady had a 60% completion rate on an outstanding Pats team .

    It’s impossible to compare as Perk said from decade to decade. You said that also.

    Brady could do many things, but scramble effectively was not one of them. He was VERY good in the pocket though. Outstanding footwork and awareness.

    I do agree that direct comparisons across decades is folly. but, I am fully convinced that had Terry Bradshaw been born in 1997 he would be an elite QB right now. He had the arm, legs and head to get the job done. His statistics do not compare to modern players only because the game is so different. He had a huge arm.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • Options
    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Johnny Unitas is another name not often talked about now but he was traditionally considered a GOAT candidate.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2023 7:45AM

    @craig44 said:

    @4for4 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @4for4 said:
    Btw. I’m not knocking Mahomes and Brady. Two incredible QB’s.

    However Brady can’t run and he loves the 5-15 yard pass. In the 70’s he’s Ken Stabler.

    Mahomes in the 70’s is Roger Staubach unless he plays for Shula or Knoll. Then he’s not Roger.

    Landry used the shotgun more and Knoll and Shula ran the ball down your throat.

    Yes, RB’s did catch balls back then.
    Emerson Boozer on the pass happy Jets 1 a game. Terrell Davis on Denver in the 80’s 2 per game.

    Because Jim Brown was so great he caught 2 a game. 3 consecutive year 1000 yard rusher Lydell Mitchell caught 3.5 per game for the Colts in the late 70’s 80’s when passing really begins to kick in.

    I will defend Tommy to the end, and I think he would have been a HOF player had he played in 1940, 1960 or 1980. I also think that Terry Bradshaw would be a HOF quarterback in the modern game.

    While Brady has not rushed for yardage like lamar jackson or vick, he is tough as nails and i would challenge anyone to find a better QB at the sneak than Brady. He also had probably the best pocket awareness of any player i ever saw. He knew where his protection was and it seemed like he could sense where the pressure was coming from. The lightening quick release also didnt hurt.

    He seemed to be saddled as a dink and dunk quarterback during his first few years, but Brady throws a great deep ball. The patriots, however, did not force it in years where he had no real deep threat. He threw great deep balls with Moss and brandin cooks. he also was top of the league in deep passes in 2020 as a 43 year old player. He had a very strong arm, much better than he was given credit for. I saw nearly every Brady game and watched him throw some absolute lasers on out routes.

    Also, check out the pass from the 4th quarter of the first giants SB. he just missed Moss and the ball flew 70 yards on the fly.

    Brady was great. A fool would say otherwise.
    He also averaged 1.6 yards per rush which is Ken Stabler like.
    Bradshaw and Staubach averaged 5 yards per rush.
    That’s why I compare Brady to Stabler.

    Archie Manning had a 60% completion rate in the 70’s on a 1-15-0 Saints team.
    Brady had a 60% completion rate on an outstanding Pats team .

    It’s impossible to compare as Perk said from decade to decade. You said that also.

    Brady could do many things, but scramble effectively was not one of them. He was VERY good in the pocket though. Outstanding footwork and awareness.

    I do agree that direct comparisons across decades is folly. but, I am fully convinced that had Terry Bradshaw been born in 1997 he would be an elite QB right now. He had the arm, legs and head to get the job done. His statistics do not compare to modern players only because the game is so different. He had a huge arm.

    Terry was also greater then Tom in this respect.

    I noticed Tom had only a higher QB rating in 3 of his 6 Super Bowl wins for NE.
    Tom had a lower QB rating then Eli in both SB losses. One was embarrassing.

    Terry had a higher QB rating in all four of his SB wins. He didn’t lose one SB. I believe Joe Montana the same.

    I know some people don’t like the big game player theory, but if Reggie was Mr. October, then Terry and Joe were Mr. January, and Brady isn’t.

    Again, Tom Brady is an insanely great QB.

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    daltex

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    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    Johnny Unitas is another name not often talked about now but he was traditionally considered a GOAT candidate.

    There will never be an NFL qb GOAT.
    Ever. Anyone who proclaims one isn’t knowledgeable about the history of the game.

    Forum members on ignore
    Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
    daltex

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    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭

    Joe Montana was the best Super Bowl QB ever. He also had an outstanding coach and passing system that few others had, let alone Jerry Rice.


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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4for4 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @4for4 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @4for4 said:
    Btw. I’m not knocking Mahomes and Brady. Two incredible QB’s.

    However Brady can’t run and he loves the 5-15 yard pass. In the 70’s he’s Ken Stabler.

    Mahomes in the 70’s is Roger Staubach unless he plays for Shula or Knoll. Then he’s not Roger.

    Landry used the shotgun more and Knoll and Shula ran the ball down your throat.

    Yes, RB’s did catch balls back then.
    Emerson Boozer on the pass happy Jets 1 a game. Terrell Davis on Denver in the 80’s 2 per game.

    Because Jim Brown was so great he caught 2 a game. 3 consecutive year 1000 yard rusher Lydell Mitchell caught 3.5 per game for the Colts in the late 70’s 80’s when passing really begins to kick in.

    I will defend Tommy to the end, and I think he would have been a HOF player had he played in 1940, 1960 or 1980. I also think that Terry Bradshaw would be a HOF quarterback in the modern game.

    While Brady has not rushed for yardage like lamar jackson or vick, he is tough as nails and i would challenge anyone to find a better QB at the sneak than Brady. He also had probably the best pocket awareness of any player i ever saw. He knew where his protection was and it seemed like he could sense where the pressure was coming from. The lightening quick release also didnt hurt.

    He seemed to be saddled as a dink and dunk quarterback during his first few years, but Brady throws a great deep ball. The patriots, however, did not force it in years where he had no real deep threat. He threw great deep balls with Moss and brandin cooks. he also was top of the league in deep passes in 2020 as a 43 year old player. He had a very strong arm, much better than he was given credit for. I saw nearly every Brady game and watched him throw some absolute lasers on out routes.

    Also, check out the pass from the 4th quarter of the first giants SB. he just missed Moss and the ball flew 70 yards on the fly.

    Brady was great. A fool would say otherwise.
    He also averaged 1.6 yards per rush which is Ken Stabler like.
    Bradshaw and Staubach averaged 5 yards per rush.
    That’s why I compare Brady to Stabler.

    Archie Manning had a 60% completion rate in the 70’s on a 1-15-0 Saints team.
    Brady had a 60% completion rate on an outstanding Pats team .

    It’s impossible to compare as Perk said from decade to decade. You said that also.

    Brady could do many things, but scramble effectively was not one of them. He was VERY good in the pocket though. Outstanding footwork and awareness.

    I do agree that direct comparisons across decades is folly. but, I am fully convinced that had Terry Bradshaw been born in 1997 he would be an elite QB right now. He had the arm, legs and head to get the job done. His statistics do not compare to modern players only because the game is so different. He had a huge arm.

    Terry was also greater then Tom in this respect.

    I noticed Tom had only a higher QB rating in 3 of his 6 Super Bowl wins for NE.
    Tom had a lower QB rating then Eli in both SB losses. One was embarrassing.

    Terry had a higher QB rating in all four of his SB wins. He didn’t lose one SB. I believe Joe Montana the same.

    I know some people don’t like the big game player theory, but if Reggie was Mr. October, then Terry and Joe were Mr. January, and Brady isn’t.

    Again, Tom Brady is an insanely great QB.

    While Terry did have nice QB ratings for his SB play, lets keep in mind that in 4 SB's he only threw the ball 84 times. Tommy had 421 attempts. He had 5 times as many chances in the SB. In only 2 regular seasons did Bradshaw have more attempts than Brady did in just the SB. it is MUCH easier to keep your rates higher when the sample size is small. it is why we see baseball players hit .400 for a month, but they cannot do it for an entire season.

    Also, in those 84 attempts, terry threw 4 picks. in tommys 421 attempts, he threw 6.

    I dont buy that having a perfect record in the SB is a shining achievement. it just means you lost more in earlier rounds.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • Options
    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:

    @4for4 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @4for4 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @4for4 said:
    Btw. I’m not knocking Mahomes and Brady. Two incredible QB’s.

    However Brady can’t run and he loves the 5-15 yard pass. In the 70’s he’s Ken Stabler.

    Mahomes in the 70’s is Roger Staubach unless he plays for Shula or Knoll. Then he’s not Roger.

    Landry used the shotgun more and Knoll and Shula ran the ball down your throat.

    Yes, RB’s did catch balls back then.
    Emerson Boozer on the pass happy Jets 1 a game. Terrell Davis on Denver in the 80’s 2 per game.

    Because Jim Brown was so great he caught 2 a game. 3 consecutive year 1000 yard rusher Lydell Mitchell caught 3.5 per game for the Colts in the late 70’s 80’s when passing really begins to kick in.

    I will defend Tommy to the end, and I think he would have been a HOF player had he played in 1940, 1960 or 1980. I also think that Terry Bradshaw would be a HOF quarterback in the modern game.

    While Brady has not rushed for yardage like lamar jackson or vick, he is tough as nails and i would challenge anyone to find a better QB at the sneak than Brady. He also had probably the best pocket awareness of any player i ever saw. He knew where his protection was and it seemed like he could sense where the pressure was coming from. The lightening quick release also didnt hurt.

    He seemed to be saddled as a dink and dunk quarterback during his first few years, but Brady throws a great deep ball. The patriots, however, did not force it in years where he had no real deep threat. He threw great deep balls with Moss and brandin cooks. he also was top of the league in deep passes in 2020 as a 43 year old player. He had a very strong arm, much better than he was given credit for. I saw nearly every Brady game and watched him throw some absolute lasers on out routes.

    Also, check out the pass from the 4th quarter of the first giants SB. he just missed Moss and the ball flew 70 yards on the fly.

    Brady was great. A fool would say otherwise.
    He also averaged 1.6 yards per rush which is Ken Stabler like.
    Bradshaw and Staubach averaged 5 yards per rush.
    That’s why I compare Brady to Stabler.

    Archie Manning had a 60% completion rate in the 70’s on a 1-15-0 Saints team.
    Brady had a 60% completion rate on an outstanding Pats team .

    It’s impossible to compare as Perk said from decade to decade. You said that also.

    Brady could do many things, but scramble effectively was not one of them. He was VERY good in the pocket though. Outstanding footwork and awareness.

    I do agree that direct comparisons across decades is folly. but, I am fully convinced that had Terry Bradshaw been born in 1997 he would be an elite QB right now. He had the arm, legs and head to get the job done. His statistics do not compare to modern players only because the game is so different. He had a huge arm.

    Terry was also greater then Tom in this respect.

    I noticed Tom had only a higher QB rating in 3 of his 6 Super Bowl wins for NE.
    Tom had a lower QB rating then Eli in both SB losses. One was embarrassing.

    Terry had a higher QB rating in all four of his SB wins. He didn’t lose one SB. I believe Joe Montana the same.

    I know some people don’t like the big game player theory, but if Reggie was Mr. October, then Terry and Joe were Mr. January, and Brady isn’t.

    Again, Tom Brady is an insanely great QB.

    While Terry did have nice QB ratings for his SB play, lets keep in mind that in 4 SB's he only threw the ball 84 times. Tommy had 421 attempts. He had 5 times as many chances in the SB. In only 2 regular seasons did Bradshaw have more attempts than Brady did in just the SB. it is MUCH easier to keep your rates higher when the sample size is small. it is why we see baseball players hit .400 for a month, but they cannot do it for an entire season.

    Also, in those 84 attempts, terry threw 4 picks. in tommys 421 attempts, he threw 6.

    I dont buy that having a perfect record in the SB is a shining achievement. it just means you lost more in earlier rounds.

    Terry outplayed the opposing QBs in Super Bowls. Tom didn’t 3 out of 8 times.
    Just talking about the most important game of the year. That’s all, where Montana and Bradshaw always outperformed their opponent.

    Forum members on ignore
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    daltex

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    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2023 8:12AM

    It doesn’t matter how many times you threw.
    What matters is did you throw better then the other guy with the times your coach allowed you to throw.
    That’s called competing and performing.
    Eli blew away Brady one year.
    Was Eli better ?
    Matt Ryan blew Brady away.
    Was Ryan better?

    No !

    But they outperformed him in January.

    Tom was not Mr. January

    Terry and Joe were.

    Forum members on ignore
    Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
    daltex

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    1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭

    @4for4 said:
    It doesn’t matter how many times you threw.
    What matters is did you throw better then the other guy with the times your coach allowed you to throw.
    That’s called competing and performing.
    Eli blew away Brady one year.
    Was Eli better ?
    Matt Ryan blew Brady away.
    Was Ryan better?

    No !

    But they outperformed him in January.

    Tom was not Mr. January

    Terry and Joe were.

    Patriots lost those games vs the Giants in February

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2023 9:24AM

    @4for4 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @4for4 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @4for4 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @4for4 said:
    Btw. I’m not knocking Mahomes and Brady. Two incredible QB’s.

    However Brady can’t run and he loves the 5-15 yard pass. In the 70’s he’s Ken Stabler.

    Mahomes in the 70’s is Roger Staubach unless he plays for Shula or Knoll. Then he’s not Roger.

    Landry used the shotgun more and Knoll and Shula ran the ball down your throat.

    Yes, RB’s did catch balls back then.
    Emerson Boozer on the pass happy Jets 1 a game. Terrell Davis on Denver in the 80’s 2 per game.

    Because Jim Brown was so great he caught 2 a game. 3 consecutive year 1000 yard rusher Lydell Mitchell caught 3.5 per game for the Colts in the late 70’s 80’s when passing really begins to kick in.

    I will defend Tommy to the end, and I think he would have been a HOF player had he played in 1940, 1960 or 1980. I also think that Terry Bradshaw would be a HOF quarterback in the modern game.

    While Brady has not rushed for yardage like lamar jackson or vick, he is tough as nails and i would challenge anyone to find a better QB at the sneak than Brady. He also had probably the best pocket awareness of any player i ever saw. He knew where his protection was and it seemed like he could sense where the pressure was coming from. The lightening quick release also didnt hurt.

    He seemed to be saddled as a dink and dunk quarterback during his first few years, but Brady throws a great deep ball. The patriots, however, did not force it in years where he had no real deep threat. He threw great deep balls with Moss and brandin cooks. he also was top of the league in deep passes in 2020 as a 43 year old player. He had a very strong arm, much better than he was given credit for. I saw nearly every Brady game and watched him throw some absolute lasers on out routes.

    Also, check out the pass from the 4th quarter of the first giants SB. he just missed Moss and the ball flew 70 yards on the fly.

    Brady was great. A fool would say otherwise.
    He also averaged 1.6 yards per rush which is Ken Stabler like.
    Bradshaw and Staubach averaged 5 yards per rush.
    That’s why I compare Brady to Stabler.

    Archie Manning had a 60% completion rate in the 70’s on a 1-15-0 Saints team.
    Brady had a 60% completion rate on an outstanding Pats team .

    It’s impossible to compare as Perk said from decade to decade. You said that also.

    Brady could do many things, but scramble effectively was not one of them. He was VERY good in the pocket though. Outstanding footwork and awareness.

    I do agree that direct comparisons across decades is folly. but, I am fully convinced that had Terry Bradshaw been born in 1997 he would be an elite QB right now. He had the arm, legs and head to get the job done. His statistics do not compare to modern players only because the game is so different. He had a huge arm.

    Terry was also greater then Tom in this respect.

    I noticed Tom had only a higher QB rating in 3 of his 6 Super Bowl wins for NE.
    Tom had a lower QB rating then Eli in both SB losses. One was embarrassing.

    Terry had a higher QB rating in all four of his SB wins. He didn’t lose one SB. I believe Joe Montana the same.

    I know some people don’t like the big game player theory, but if Reggie was Mr. October, then Terry and Joe were Mr. January, and Brady isn’t.

    Again, Tom Brady is an insanely great QB.

    While Terry did have nice QB ratings for his SB play, lets keep in mind that in 4 SB's he only threw the ball 84 times. Tommy had 421 attempts. He had 5 times as many chances in the SB. In only 2 regular seasons did Bradshaw have more attempts than Brady did in just the SB. it is MUCH easier to keep your rates higher when the sample size is small. it is why we see baseball players hit .400 for a month, but they cannot do it for an entire season.

    Also, in those 84 attempts, terry threw 4 picks. in tommys 421 attempts, he threw 6.

    I dont buy that having a perfect record in the SB is a shining achievement. it just means you lost more in earlier rounds.

    Terry outplayed the opposing QBs in Super Bowls. Tom didn’t 3 out of 8 times.
    Just talking about the most important game of the year. That’s all, where Montana and Bradshaw always outperformed their opponent.

    Again, it is a numbers game. do you think it would be easier to have a 4 game hitting streak or a 10 game hitting streak?

    The more games you play, the more likely you are going to have a stinker. It happens across all sports. Dont you think Terry would have had a few bad games had he played in 150% more super bowls? Same goes for Montana.

    As far as Terry and Joe being "mr. january" that is fine, most of Tommys SB's were played in February.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • Options
    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2023 9:49AM

    There seems to be a sentiment that it is somehow better to go to fewer championship games, but win them all than it is to win more championships, but have losses on your SB "record"

    To me this is crazy talk. The goal in sports is to win the championship. it is utterly impossible to do so if you lose in the first or second round.

    Wouldnt Montana or Bradshaw have had more impressive careers had they gone, say, 5-2 in the SB rather than 4-0?

    To say that a 4-0 record in SB's is somehow better than 7-3 is foolish.

    here is another example. this is considering only seasons where each played at least half the games.

    Bradshaw had 13 such seasons. he either missed the playoffs or was one and done in 6 of those. almost half.
    Montana also had 13. he either missed the playoffs or was one-and-done in 6 of those. again, almost half.
    Tommy had 21 full seasons. he either missed the playoff or was one and done in 5 of those. slightly less than 1/4.

    do those "perfect" 4-0 Super Bowl records still look so perfect?

    Maybe Tommy is both Mr. January AND Mr. February

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • Options
    perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    There seems to be a sentiment that it is somehow better to go to fewer championship games, but win them all than it is to win more championships, but have losses on your SB "record"

    To me this is crazy talk. The goal in sports is to win the championship. it is utterly impossible to do so if you lose in the first or second round.

    Wouldnt Montana or Bradshaw have had more impressive careers had they gone, say, 5-2 in the SB rather than 4-0?

    To say that a 4-0 record in SB's is somehow better than 7-3 is foolish.

    here is another example. this is considering only seasons where each played at least half the games.

    Bradshaw had 13 such seasons. he either missed the playoffs or was one and done in 6 of those. almost half.
    Montana also had 13. he either missed the playoffs or was one-and-done in 6 of those. again, almost half.
    Tommy had 21 full seasons. he either missed the playoff or was one and done in 5 of those. slightly less than 1/4.

    do those "perfect" 4-0 Super Bowl records still look so perfect?

    Maybe Tommy is both Mr. January AND Mr. February

    I'd take 5-2 over 4-0 anytime but let's just take the Super Bowl win/loss or appearances out of the equation when validating a QB because really it's a mute point, it's literally one of the biggest arguments from people who say Mintana was better than Brady and it's ridiculous in my opinion.

    Longevity and stats tell the bigger story in my opinion and that story should be told separately from each Decade

  • Options
    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2023 1:29AM

    @perkdog said:

    @craig44 said:
    There seems to be a sentiment that it is somehow better to go to fewer championship games, but win them all than it is to win more championships, but have losses on your SB "record"

    To me this is crazy talk. The goal in sports is to win the championship. it is utterly impossible to do so if you lose in the first or second round.

    Wouldnt Montana or Bradshaw have had more impressive careers had they gone, say, 5-2 in the SB rather than 4-0?

    To say that a 4-0 record in SB's is somehow better than 7-3 is foolish.

    here is another example. this is considering only seasons where each played at least half the games.

    Bradshaw had 13 such seasons. he either missed the playoffs or was one and done in 6 of those. almost half.
    Montana also had 13. he either missed the playoffs or was one-and-done in 6 of those. again, almost half.
    Tommy had 21 full seasons. he either missed the playoff or was one and done in 5 of those. slightly less than 1/4.

    do those "perfect" 4-0 Super Bowl records still look so perfect?

    Maybe Tommy is both Mr. January AND Mr. February

    I'd take 5-2 over 4-0 anytime but let's just take the Super Bowl win/loss or appearances out of the equation when validating a QB because really it's a mute point, it's literally one of the biggest arguments from people who say Mintana was better than Brady and it's ridiculous in my opinion.

    Longevity and stats tell the bigger story in my opinion and that story should be told separately from each Decade

    4-0 leads a division in all sports.
    5-2 would be in 2nd place.

    That Pats were 16-0 when they lost to a 10-6 team in a Super Bowl and Brady was outplayed twice by Manning.

    Brady was great all time.
    No was is questioning that.

    As a Bradshaw fan I admit he was like Favre in that they both threw a lot of picks. I admit a lot of his faults. He loved to throw 30-40 yards into double coverage. Drove Knoll nuts. He still was the best.

    Brady was the best also, but his Super Bowl record isn’t.

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    daltex

  • Options
    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭

    Forgot to mention, his 7-2 SB record beats Otto Graham’s 7-3 championship record.

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    daltex

  • Options
    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2023 2:39AM

    @perkdog said:

    @craig44 said:
    There seems to be a sentiment that it is somehow better to go to fewer championship games, but win them all than it is to win more championships, but have losses on your SB "record"

    To me this is crazy talk. The goal in sports is to win the championship. it is utterly impossible to do so if you lose in the first or second round.

    Wouldnt Montana or Bradshaw have had more impressive careers had they gone, say, 5-2 in the SB rather than 4-0?

    To say that a 4-0 record in SB's is somehow better than 7-3 is foolish.

    here is another example. this is considering only seasons where each played at least half the games.

    Bradshaw had 13 such seasons. he either missed the playoffs or was one and done in 6 of those. almost half.
    Montana also had 13. he either missed the playoffs or was one-and-done in 6 of those. again, almost half.
    Tommy had 21 full seasons. he either missed the playoff or was one and done in 5 of those. slightly less than 1/4.

    do those "perfect" 4-0 Super Bowl records still look so perfect?

    Maybe Tommy is both Mr. January AND Mr. February

    Longevity and stats tell the bigger story in my opinion and that story should be told separately from each Decade

    IMO QB’s on good teams that feast on bottom feeders tells me nothing.

    QB’s that outplayed their equals when their teams were equal tells me a whole lot more.

    When Eli outplays Brady twice and once on a 10-6 team vs a 16-0 team that tells me a lot about Brady.
    He was outplayed 5 times out of 8 in Super Bowls. Joe and Terry never.

    I’m not interested in how Tom and Terry did against Detroit the past 15 years.

    Just how I think, but I respect and understand how you see it now and that’s good moving forward .

    I’ll just understand where you come from going forward. 😊

    Forum members on ignore
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    daltex

  • Options
    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    There seems to be a sentiment that it is somehow better to go to fewer championship games, but win them all than it is to win more championships, but have losses on your SB "record"

    To me this is crazy talk. The goal in sports is to win the championship. it is utterly impossible to do so if you lose in the first or second round.

    Wouldnt Montana or Bradshaw have had more impressive careers had they gone, say, 5-2 in the SB rather than 4-0?

    To say that a 4-0 record in SB's is somehow better than 7-3 is foolish.

    I’ll disagree 5-2 is better then 4-0 but I’ll give you that all day long.

    What I can’t give you is that Tom was outplayed 5 of 8 times whereas Joe and Terry were never.

    How do you see that ?

    I understand Joe Terry and Tom got beat lots. They all were great, and I’m not saying one was better than the other. Never will.

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    daltex

  • Options
    perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4for4 said:

    @perkdog said:

    @craig44 said:
    There seems to be a sentiment that it is somehow better to go to fewer championship games, but win them all than it is to win more championships, but have losses on your SB "record"

    To me this is crazy talk. The goal in sports is to win the championship. it is utterly impossible to do so if you lose in the first or second round.

    Wouldnt Montana or Bradshaw have had more impressive careers had they gone, say, 5-2 in the SB rather than 4-0?

    To say that a 4-0 record in SB's is somehow better than 7-3 is foolish.

    here is another example. this is considering only seasons where each played at least half the games.

    Bradshaw had 13 such seasons. he either missed the playoffs or was one and done in 6 of those. almost half.
    Montana also had 13. he either missed the playoffs or was one-and-done in 6 of those. again, almost half.
    Tommy had 21 full seasons. he either missed the playoff or was one and done in 5 of those. slightly less than 1/4.

    do those "perfect" 4-0 Super Bowl records still look so perfect?

    Maybe Tommy is both Mr. January AND Mr. February

    Longevity and stats tell the bigger story in my opinion and that story should be told separately from each Decade

    IMO QB’s on good teams that feast on bottom feeders tells me nothing.

    QB’s that outplayed their equals when their teams were equal tells me a whole lot more.

    When Eli outplays Brady twice and once on a 10-6 team vs a 16-0 team that tells me a lot about Brady.
    He was outplayed 5 times out of 8 in Super Bowls. Joe and Terry never.

    I’m not interested in how Tom and Terry did against Detroit the past 15 years.

    Just how I think, but I respect and understand how you see it now and that’s good moving forward .

    I’ll just understand where you come from going forward. 😊

    Believe me I secretly harbor some anger towards Brady for the severe stress he put me through in his Super Bowls 🤬🤣🤣🤣

  • Options
    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2023 3:53AM

    @perkdog said:

    @4for4 said:

    @perkdog said:

    @craig44 said:
    There seems to be a sentiment that it is somehow better to go to fewer championship games, but win them all than it is to win more championships, but have losses on your SB "record"

    To me this is crazy talk. The goal in sports is to win the championship. it is utterly impossible to do so if you lose in the first or second round.

    Wouldnt Montana or Bradshaw have had more impressive careers had they gone, say, 5-2 in the SB rather than 4-0?

    To say that a 4-0 record in SB's is somehow better than 7-3 is foolish.

    here is another example. this is considering only seasons where each played at least half the games.

    Bradshaw had 13 such seasons. he either missed the playoffs or was one and done in 6 of those. almost half.
    Montana also had 13. he either missed the playoffs or was one-and-done in 6 of those. again, almost half.
    Tommy had 21 full seasons. he either missed the playoff or was one and done in 5 of those. slightly less than 1/4.

    do those "perfect" 4-0 Super Bowl records still look so perfect?

    Maybe Tommy is both Mr. January AND Mr. February

    Longevity and stats tell the bigger story in my opinion and that story should be told separately from each Decade

    IMO QB’s on good teams that feast on bottom feeders tells me nothing.

    QB’s that outplayed their equals when their teams were equal tells me a whole lot more.

    When Eli outplays Brady twice and once on a 10-6 team vs a 16-0 team that tells me a lot about Brady.
    He was outplayed 5 times out of 8 in Super Bowls. Joe and Terry never.

    I’m not interested in how Tom and Terry did against Detroit the past 15 years.

    Just how I think, but I respect and understand how you see it now and that’s good moving forward .

    I’ll just understand where you come from going forward. 😊

    Believe me I secretly harbor some anger towards Brady for the severe stress he put me through in his Super Bowls 🤬🤣🤣🤣

    And you defend your team while not saying another team sucks so I respect the heck out of you.

    Super Bowl 1 through 31 all have something in common.
    The winning QB had a higher QB rating in all those Super Bowls.

    Jim Kelly cost his team with his poor SB play. His games were terrible.
    Not interested how he did against Detroit.

    Brady having better teams, playing badly, and losing Super Bowls is a valid knock, just like Terry and Brett trying to be another Joe Namath and throwing all those picks.

    All these guys were great.
    None were better then the other.

    The Mount Rushmore of SB QBs is Joe Terry and whoever comes next.

    The Mount Rushmore of regular season QBs is impossible.imo

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    daltex

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    SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4for4 said:
    Mahomes in the 70’s is Roger Staubach unless he plays for Shula or Knoll. Then he’s not Roger.

    Landry used the shotgun more and Knoll and Shula ran the ball down your throat.

    By your icon, you must think you're a Steelers fan; yet you don't know how to spell Chuck Noll's name?

    Steve

  • Options
    Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭✭

    @4for4 said:
    We don’t give the respect these old timers deserve when we say these new kids are GOATS. They play in pass happy systems that protect the QB. Football back then was brutal.

    Theres obviously differences just like no one will ever touch many of CY Youngs records. However, if a QB if throwing 15 times a game it cant be ignored that they really arent doing a ton. The eras need to be separated but the QBs today are basically essential and expected to run the games, back in the day they were more game managers

    @4for4 said:

    @perkdog said:

    @craig44 said:

    When Eli outplays Brady twice and once on a 10-6 team vs a 16-0 team that tells me a lot about Brady.
    He was outplayed 5 times out of 8 in Super Bowls. Joe and Terry never.

    Eli didnt outplay Brady in the SBs he just had a better team around him. He was objective average at best in 1 and dont forget Samuel also dropped a pick 6 to the chest that kept the game alive. The helmet catch was also a much better catch than throw. At best Eli was equal if you combine the two, but Eli is one of the most overrated QBs

  • Options
    dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    Eli didnt outplay Brady in the SBs he just had a better team around him. He was objective average at best in 1 and dont forget Samuel also dropped a pick 6 to the chest that kept the game alive. The helmet catch was also a much better catch than throw. At best Eli was equal if you combine the two, but Eli is one of the most overrated QBs

    I'm just spitballin' here, but it sounds like evaluating QBs by whether the teams they were on did or did not win a particular Super Bowl would be a really stupid thing to do. Yours is an intriguing notion.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • Options
    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2023 12:42AM

    @SDSportsFan said:

    @4for4 said:
    Mahomes in the 70’s is Roger Staubach unless he plays for Shula or Knoll. Then he’s not Roger.

    Landry used the shotgun more and Knoll and Shula ran the ball down your throat.

    By your icon, you must think you're a Steelers fan; yet you don't know how to spell Chuck Noll's name?

    Steve

    Steve,
    you are on ignore now and I will no longer see your posts.

    You can make fun of others on this forum when they make mistakes, but I find that childish.
    .
    Everyone is human.

    Nothing personal.
    All the best !

    Just an fyi, our family played many rounds of golf at this club, thus the confusion.

    Forum members on ignore
    Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
    daltex

  • Options
    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2023 11:51PM

    @Basebal21 said:

    @4for4 said:
    We don’t give the respect these old timers deserve when we say these new kids are GOATS. They play in pass happy systems that protect the QB. Football back then was brutal.

    Theres obviously differences just like no one will ever touch many of CY Youngs records. However, if a QB if throwing 15 times a game it cant be ignored that they really arent doing a ton. The eras need to be separated but the QBs today are basically essential and expected to run the games, back in the day they were more game managers

    @4for4 said:

    @perkdog said:

    @craig44 said:

    When Eli outplays Brady twice and once on a 10-6 team vs a 16-0 team that tells me a lot about Brady.
    He was outplayed 5 times out of 8 in Super Bowls. Joe and Terry never.

    Eli didnt outplay Brady in the SBs he just had a better team around him. He was objective average at best in 1 and dont forget Samuel also dropped a pick 6 to the chest that kept the game alive. The helmet catch was also a much better catch than throw. At best Eli was equal if you combine the two, but Eli is one of the most overrated QBs

    Eli led a 10-6 Giants team to a victory over a 16-0 Pats team.

    How was Eli’s Giants team better ?
    Eli had a better QB rating over Brady in that Super Bowl win also.

    Here’s the other one where he was MVP.


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    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2023 12:23AM

    Every winning Super Bowl team from Super Bowl 1 to 32 had one thing in common.

    The winning QB had a higher QB rating then the losing QB.

    I didn’t check SB 32 onward.

    QB play is vital, and Brady losing a Super Bowl to a weaker team and having a weaker QB rating to that weaker teams QB rarely happens in a SB. The most well known example is 1968 Baltimore where the QBs threw four picks to Namath’s 0 when the Colts had a monster defense and league MVP at QB.

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    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭

    1968 Colts
    Dominating defensive season

    Earl Morral is voted league MVP.

    Super Bowl results……………….

    Baltimore gains more yards on the ground.

    QB play

    Unitas and Morral lost the Bowl for Baltimore the same way Brady did for NE.

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    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭

    The Patriots were favorites twice over the Giants.

    Once by 12 points.

    The 1968 Colts were 18 point favorites.

    You can check via this link.

    https://www.betfirm.com/point-spreads-for-every-super-bowl/

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    coolstanleycoolstanley Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4for4

    I do agree that direct comparisons across decades is folly. but, I am fully convinced that had Terry Bradshaw been born in 1997 he would be an elite QB right now. He had the arm, legs and head to get the job done. His statistics do not compare to modern players only because the game is so different. He had a huge arm.

    Terry was also greater then Tom in this respect.

    I noticed Tom had only a higher QB rating in 3 of his 6 Super Bowl wins for NE.
    Tom had a lower QB rating then Eli in both SB losses. One was embarrassing.

    Terry had a higher QB rating in all four of his SB wins. He didn’t lose one SB. I believe Joe Montana the same.

    I know some people don’t like the big game player theory, but if Reggie was Mr. October, then Terry and Joe were Mr. January, and Brady isn’t.

    Dont tell that to Dallas or Tabe LOL.

    Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!

    Ignore list -Basebal21

  • Options
    dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4for4 said:

    @SDSportsFan said:

    @4for4 said:
    Mahomes in the 70’s is Roger Staubach unless he plays for Shula or Knoll. Then he’s not Roger.

    Landry used the shotgun more and Knoll and Shula ran the ball down your throat.

    By your icon, you must think you're a Steelers fan; yet you don't know how to spell Chuck Noll's name?

    Steve

    Steve,
    you are on ignore now and I will no longer see your posts.

    You can make fun of others on this forum when they make mistakes, but I find that childish.
    .

    I predict @4for4 will have the entire forum on ignore soon, and he still won't understand how "childish" his behavior is.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • Options
    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2023 8:34AM

    Someone just pointed out to me that SDsportsfan and dallasactuary have the same first name.

    Steve

    Interesting that SD’s first post is a mocking post being that dallasactuarys comments are no longer seen by me.

    Thanks to the one who let me know about that.
    I guess this place has some interesting people.
    To each their own.
    All the best to these two and the many other “ Steve’s “ on this forum.

    Nothing personal.
    I’ll continue to enjoy the adults who contribute here.

    Forum members on ignore
    Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
    daltex

  • Options
    dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4for4 said:
    I’ll continue to enjoy the adults who contribute here.

    Your lack of self-awareness is breathtaking, and hilarious.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • Options
    1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2023 11:29AM

    This is great lol. Entertaining.

  • Options
    Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭✭

    @4for4 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @4for4 said:
    We don’t give the respect these old timers deserve when we say these new kids are GOATS. They play in pass happy systems that protect the QB. Football back then was brutal.

    Theres obviously differences just like no one will ever touch many of CY Youngs records. However, if a QB if throwing 15 times a game it cant be ignored that they really arent doing a ton. The eras need to be separated but the QBs today are basically essential and expected to run the games, back in the day they were more game managers

    @4for4 said:

    @perkdog said:

    @craig44 said:

    When Eli outplays Brady twice and once on a 10-6 team vs a 16-0 team that tells me a lot about Brady.
    He was outplayed 5 times out of 8 in Super Bowls. Joe and Terry never.

    Eli didnt outplay Brady in the SBs he just had a better team around him. He was objective average at best in 1 and dont forget Samuel also dropped a pick 6 to the chest that kept the game alive. The helmet catch was also a much better catch than throw. At best Eli was equal if you combine the two, but Eli is one of the most overrated QBs

    Eli led a 10-6 Giants team to a victory over a 16-0 Pats team.

    How was Eli’s Giants team better ?
    Eli had a better QB rating over Brady in that Super Bowl win also.

    Here’s the other one where he was MVP.


    Their stats were the same in the SB. Eli was a turn over machine threw out his career. Up until recently the AFC East was also very bad division especially during the dynasty run. The Giants had a much better defense and the Pats also dropped an INT that would have won the game.

    Eli gets to much credit for his last name being Manning. If you swap QBs the same team wins, they just have a better record and no I am not a Pats fan

  • Options
    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    @4for4 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @4for4 said:
    We don’t give the respect these old timers deserve when we say these new kids are GOATS. They play in pass happy systems that protect the QB. Football back then was brutal.

    Theres obviously differences just like no one will ever touch many of CY Youngs records. However, if a QB if throwing 15 times a game it cant be ignored that they really arent doing a ton. The eras need to be separated but the QBs today are basically essential and expected to run the games, back in the day they were more game managers

    @4for4 said:

    @perkdog said:

    @craig44 said:

    When Eli outplays Brady twice and once on a 10-6 team vs a 16-0 team that tells me a lot about Brady.
    He was outplayed 5 times out of 8 in Super Bowls. Joe and Terry never.

    Eli didnt outplay Brady in the SBs he just had a better team around him. He was objective average at best in 1 and dont forget Samuel also dropped a pick 6 to the chest that kept the game alive. The helmet catch was also a much better catch than throw. At best Eli was equal if you combine the two, but Eli is one of the most overrated QBs

    Eli led a 10-6 Giants team to a victory over a 16-0 Pats team.

    How was Eli’s Giants team better ?
    Eli had a better QB rating over Brady in that Super Bowl win also.

    Here’s the other one where he was MVP.


    Their stats were the same in the SB. Eli was a turn over machine threw out his career. Up until recently the AFC East was also very bad division especially during the dynasty run. The Giants had a much better defense and the Pats also dropped an INT that would have won the game.

    Eli gets to much credit for his last name being Manning. If you swap QBs the same team wins, they just have a better record and no I am not a Pats fan

    The Patriots were 3 and 12 point favorites in both Super Bowls.

    Eli had a better QB rating over Brady in both Super Bowls.

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    daltex

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, this thread has gotten interesting

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • Options
    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭

    @1948_Swell_Robinson said:
    This is great lol. Entertaining.

    For you yes, but he’s obsessed.
    Now Steve came at me with his third alt daltex.

    All I said to the guy at first is I’m using the forum ignore feature to not see his contributions anymore because he’s a 55 year old man who approves of saying people suck.

    Then Steve mocks me for making an understandable spelling error.
    Thanks to the one who showed me it’s him again.

    I’m also told he uses alts to laugh at his alts comments.

    I’ve seen this before and I hope he has no more but with his obsessive behavior he will show up and mock me with another soon enough.

    I’m not against him.
    If he likes to mock, mock away.
    I just don’t like to live in that world.
    Nothing personal. All the best to him.

    Forum members on ignore
    Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
    daltex

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    @4for4 said:

    @1948_Swell_Robinson said:
    This is great lol. Entertaining.

    For you yes, but he’s obsessed.
    Now Steve came at me with his third alt daltex.

    All I said to the guy at first is I’m using the forum ignore feature to not see his contributions anymore because he’s a 55 year old man who approves of saying people suck.

    Then Steve mocks me for making an understandable spelling error.
    Thanks to the one who showed me it’s him again.

    I’m also told he uses alts to laugh at his alts comments.

    I’ve seen this before and I hope he has no more but with his obsessive behavior he will show up and mock me with another soon enough.

    I’m not against him.
    If he likes to mock, mock away.
    I just don’t like to live in that world.
    Nothing personal. All the best to him.

    What if another Steve chimes in?

  • Options
    4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭

    @1948_Swell_Robinson said:

    @4for4 said:

    @1948_Swell_Robinson said:
    This is great lol. Entertaining.

    For you yes, but he’s obsessed.
    Now Steve came at me with his third alt daltex.

    All I said to the guy at first is I’m using the forum ignore feature to not see his contributions anymore because he’s a 55 year old man who approves of saying people suck.

    Then Steve mocks me for making an understandable spelling error.
    Thanks to the one who showed me it’s him again.

    I’m also told he uses alts to laugh at his alts comments.

    I’ve seen this before and I hope he has no more but with his obsessive behavior he will show up and mock me with another soon enough.

    I’m not against him.
    If he likes to mock, mock away.
    I just don’t like to live in that world.
    Nothing personal. All the best to him.

    What if another Steve chimes in?

    Yeah.
    I got a heartfelt message from a guy I don’t even know today telling me his son self mutilates when he gets bullied at school.

    I don’t want to associate with internet bullies and mockers.

    It’s not the world I enjoy living in.

    To each their own.

    Forum members on ignore
    Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
    daltex

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    @4for4 said:

    @1948_Swell_Robinson said:

    @4for4 said:

    @1948_Swell_Robinson said:
    This is great lol. Entertaining.

    For you yes, but he’s obsessed.
    Now Steve came at me with his third alt daltex.

    All I said to the guy at first is I’m using the forum ignore feature to not see his contributions anymore because he’s a 55 year old man who approves of saying people suck.

    Then Steve mocks me for making an understandable spelling error.
    Thanks to the one who showed me it’s him again.

    I’m also told he uses alts to laugh at his alts comments.

    I’ve seen this before and I hope he has no more but with his obsessive behavior he will show up and mock me with another soon enough.

    I’m not against him.
    If he likes to mock, mock away.
    I just don’t like to live in that world.
    Nothing personal. All the best to him.

    What if another Steve chimes in?

    Yeah.
    I got a heartfelt message from a guy I don’t even know today telling me his son self mutilates when he gets bullied at school.

    I don’t want to associate with internet bullies and mockers.

    It’s not the world I enjoy living in.

    To each their own.

    Makes sense. You are right, everyone has their own tolerances. I hope you enjoy your time on the board and your endeavors.

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    Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭✭

    @4for4 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @4for4 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @4for4 said:
    We don’t give the respect these old timers deserve when we say these new kids are GOATS. They play in pass happy systems that protect the QB. Football back then was brutal.

    Theres obviously differences just like no one will ever touch many of CY Youngs records. However, if a QB if throwing 15 times a game it cant be ignored that they really arent doing a ton. The eras need to be separated but the QBs today are basically essential and expected to run the games, back in the day they were more game managers

    @4for4 said:

    @perkdog said:

    @craig44 said:

    When Eli outplays Brady twice and once on a 10-6 team vs a 16-0 team that tells me a lot about Brady.
    He was outplayed 5 times out of 8 in Super Bowls. Joe and Terry never.

    Eli didnt outplay Brady in the SBs he just had a better team around him. He was objective average at best in 1 and dont forget Samuel also dropped a pick 6 to the chest that kept the game alive. The helmet catch was also a much better catch than throw. At best Eli was equal if you combine the two, but Eli is one of the most overrated QBs

    Eli led a 10-6 Giants team to a victory over a 16-0 Pats team.

    How was Eli’s Giants team better ?
    Eli had a better QB rating over Brady in that Super Bowl win also.

    Here’s the other one where he was MVP.


    Their stats were the same in the SB. Eli was a turn over machine threw out his career. Up until recently the AFC East was also very bad division especially during the dynasty run. The Giants had a much better defense and the Pats also dropped an INT that would have won the game.

    Eli gets to much credit for his last name being Manning. If you swap QBs the same team wins, they just have a better record and no I am not a Pats fan

    The Patriots were 3 and 12 point favorites in both Super Bowls.

    Eli had a better QB rating over Brady in both Super Bowls.

    2007 Eli led the league in INTs with 20 INTs and 23 TDs. He was bad. They would have never gotten to the playoffs without him being carried by his team. Samuel also dropped the INT in the SB.

    Brady and Elis stats are basically the same for the two SBs. When you add the yards up of the two games its basically the same, they both had 3 TDs and 1 INT when you combine the game stats. Neither was better for those two games

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    dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4for4 said:
    Now Steve came at me with his third alt daltex.

    All I said to the guy at first is I’m using the forum ignore feature to not see his contributions anymore because he’s a 55 year old man who approves of saying people suck.

    Then Steve mocks me for making an understandable spelling error.
    Thanks to the one who showed me it’s him again.

    I’m also told he uses alts to laugh at his alts comments.

    I’ve seen this before and I hope he has no more but with his obsessive behavior he will show up and mock me with another soon enough.

    If I understand correctly, I am me, and I am @SDsportsfan, and I am also @daltex. Thank you to whoever it was that told him this, although whoever you are you have to be as amazed as I am that he actually believed it. While @4for4 wouldn't recognize humor if it bit him, his presence here has upped my amusement with the forum immeasurably.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
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    SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2023 6:12PM

    @4for4 said:

    @SDSportsFan said:

    @4for4 said:
    Mahomes in the 70’s is Roger Staubach unless he plays for Shula or Knoll. Then he’s not Roger.

    Landry used the shotgun more and Knoll and Shula ran the ball down your throat.

    By your icon, you must think you're a Steelers fan; yet you don't know how to spell Chuck Noll's name?

    Steve

    Steve,
    you are on ignore now and I will no longer see your posts.

    You can make fun of others on this forum when they make mistakes, but I find that childish.
    .

    Gee, all the Steelers fans I've met, and I've met quite a few since I used to hang out at a Steelers-centric sports bar, are a lot tougher than that.

    Steve D

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    SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh, and by the way,

    I am solely myself.....no alts or other usernames; just me, SDSportsFan.

    I grew up in San Diego, CA, and am a life-long Padres and Chargers fan (well, until the idiot Dean Spanos moved the team to LA).

    I do like the Cowboys though, as I have lived in Texas for about 19 years now; and have followed them since the Roger Staubach era.

    I also have liked the Steelers since the Bradshaw days, since they'd usually beat the Raiders (who I've always despised), and my maternal grandfather and his dad were both born near Pittsburgh.

    Steve D

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