Take a look at the raw double eagle I saw and held today. - Backstory added.
SanctionII
Posts: 12,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
A treat for me. Tomorrow I will follow up with the back story.
14
Comments
Nice Franklin
Very cool! I owned a raw AU55 for a short time years ago, then slabbed it and sold it.
Slab it!
Omega?
So here is the back story.
I went to Long Beach yesterday to drop off multiple coins for grading by our host. As I was sitting at the PCGS Lounge filling out submission forms, placing coins into flips and writing on labels to attach to the flips a man came to the table I was sitting at and sat down across from me.
This man was about my age (mid 60's). He started filling out a submission form and asked me for assistance. We started talking and he said he was submitting 9 gold coins (double eagles) for grading. He took the 9 coins out of a container. I asked him about the coins and he told me his story.
The 9 coins were contained in small paper envelopes imprinted with a coin dealer's information. On each envelope was handwritten notes of the purchase date, purchase price and description of the coin in the envelope. He told me that he inherited the coins from his grandfather in 1969 upon his death. He said that:
he is not a coin collector;
upon receipt of the coins (the 9 double eagles, plus numerous US Pattern coins, plus World coins [including Chinese coins]) he took possession of them and stored them away for 30+ years without paying attention to them;
his grandfather also collected numerous other things (including watches and stamps) all of which he inherited on his grandfather's death;
his grandfather never talked about the specifics of his collecting and merely said "I collect coins";
no one is his family is a coin collector and no one knew what was in his grandfather's collection (of coins and other things);
his grandfather collected over many, many years;
his grandfather purchased the 1907 double eagle shown in the above photos in 1943 for $43.50 (the envelope the double eagle was in has written on it the purchase date, the purchase price, a description of the coin and that it is UNC);
he has now taken an interest in the coins (and other items) he inherited and is spending time learning about them because he views the items he inherited from his grandfather as items that possibly have significant value and because he views himself as being a steward/care taker for his own children who will eventually inherit those same items;
he had the Patterns his grandfather collected reviewed and submitted for grading;
a box containing multiple Chinese coins was sent to persons familiar with Chinese coinage and one of these coins is very valuable; and
he had a person from PCGS look at the 1907 double eagle who looked at it and verbally opined what he thought the coin's value was (5 figures).
The man allowed me to take the 1907 double eagle out of its envelope to hold it (by the edges) and look at it (with and without a loupe). He said that other than him and the PCGS representative who looked at the coin I was the only other person who had looked at and held this coin since he inherited it.
The coin looks MS to me. I did not see anything that indicated it had been circulated. It was very heavy and it was a joy to hold and look at. The man also let me hold and look at another double eagle (1923) that to me also looked MS.
The man also took out and showed me a heavy rectangular silver bar (likely 5 or 10 ounces) with stamping indicating it was made by the San Francisco mint in the 1800's. Very cool to see and hold that bar.
So in summary, my trip to Long Beach turned out to be a treat because of my chance encounter with the man who sat down next to me at the PCGS Lounge. It is fun to hear about stories such as the one the man told me yesterday. There are similar stories that are yet to be told; and such stories do contribute to the overall appeal that Numismatics has on persons who play around in the coin collecting sand box.
I hope you enjoy this back story.
@SanctionII said: It was very heavy
Is this supposed to mean you think it was "over-weight" heavy or that you just aren't accustomed to the weight of a double eagle??
Maywood.
I am not accustomed to the weight of a double eagle. I have no idea if the coin is overweight (thus counterfeit) or not. Given the envelope it was in and the history provided to me I expect that the coin will straight grade.
Great story. Best way to find out the grade would be to take a picture of today’s pop and check back in a few weeks?
Nice read. Thanks for sharing.
Looks like a 1907 High Relief from the pic. Thanks for sharing the story!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
The first time I ever held a raw double eagle I was surprised by how heavy it was.
You got that special tactile sensation of some beautiful "heavy" gold coins. And off they went to be entombed in plastic. Good for you. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
I enjoyed the story. All seems legit. Would be great to see how they graded.
Very cool chance encounter!
Thanks for sharing the story with us.
Yeah, I think it looks like a HR too. Great story!
The 1907 double eagle I held is the high relief flat rim variety.
@SanctionII story can’t be true. We all know all good coins have been to the graders😂 (at least once)
Cool story and experience
Martin
Cool story for sure, just goes to show that there are still lots of great raw coins out there, more than I had ever thought.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Most people would have made it nice and shiny for those good kids in the grading room.
Thanks for adding the back story. There are so many other coins out there like this waiting to come out of hiding.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
I've heard stories from coin dealers where the widow brings her late Husbands's rare coins into the shop to sell and she polished every coin so they would bring top dollar.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Horror stories.
We can only hope.
This thread has been a fun one, with lots of positivity.
Thanks to all who have replied.
Great story and great experience.
At a Vegas show some 10 years, or more, ago, I was sitting eating a bite with a few other dealers/collectors. PCGS rep brought out 3 boxes and set them on the table next to a Calif dealer. He put his fork down and opened them and then passed them around the table for all to see.
It was an original roll of 1909svdb cents. All 50 graded and I think three were top pops. All red 67's. Damn that was fun. I asked to purchase and found out that they were for a customer of his and he had no intention of selling them.
bob
Great story, love reading stuff like that
I'm somewhat skeptical of the story for two reasons,
1. Why would someone leave such valuable coins (yes, valuable even in 1969) to a pre-teen and let the pre-teen store them ?
2. How did he know enough to come to Long Beach alone like that and go to PCGS and ask a stranger to handle his coins ?
And just like that the
Positivity ended
I still like the story and wish I was there
Martin
I like stories as much as the next person; I do tend to notice things that don't quite make sense though. It doesn't mean the story is untrue.
I just started a thread about another High Relief still out in the wild.
Can I tell you in this thread that there is something wrong with any coin not in a slab?
😝😝😝😝
(j/k of course)
CaptainHenway's thread about a raw high relief double eagle is a good one.
As for this thread and the replys posted by dhikewhitney I will say:
The man who sat down next to me and told me his story was sincere. I listened and asked a few questions. I did not ask for more detailed information as I did not want to pry;
I suspect that when his grandfather died in 1969 the coins and other things grandpa collected were delivered to the grandson at his home where he lived with his parents. The grandson probably looked at the items and stored them in his parents' home, where they sat for decades (my childhood collection sat in my parents' safe deposit box for over 25 years until the collecting bug bit me again as an adult). Since the grandson told me he is not a coin collector I can easily see him going 30 years without looking at grandpa's collection; and
The grandson did not just "show up" at Long Beach. He told me he had been educating himself on the items in his grandfather's collection, had previously had the US Pattern coins submitted for grading (through a coin dealer he had been working with until the dealer died) and decided to attend Long Beach to have PCGS on site representatives look at the nine double eagles, assess them and provide him information about submitting them for grading. Nothing unusual about that. As for showing me the high relief double eagle and letting me hold it, well I have had similar experiences at Long Beach and smaller shows in the past. I have allowed others I have sat with at coin shows look at and hold some of my coins also.
dhikewhitney can be skeptical of the story I was told if he wants. I believe what the grandson told me is true. However, even if it is not completely true it is still a good story.
Nice coin and good story. Thanks for sharing.
Beautiful coin shown. Love the story and it only proves some treasures still exist.
The pop report for the 1907 High Relief flat edge double eagle in MS (61 to 68+) as of today is:
9 in 61
78 in 62
2 in 62+
149 in 63
3 in 63+
209 in 64
19 in 64+
133 in 65
13 in 65+
59 in 66
3 in 66+
11 in 67
2 in 67+
2 in 68
1 in 68+
for a total of 866 graded in MS.
When the coin I saw a week ago is graded the 866 number should go up by one; and we possibly will be able to tell what the coin graded. I will post an update if I see the pops change.
Thanks for the backstory @SanctionII
That would have been a very cool spot to be seated at that moment. Funny how the power of the universe works.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Fascinating story. Thank you for sharing.
Cool story. Holding an ounce (well, close enough) of raw gold is always a treat, even if it’s just a beat-up Krugerrand. Thanks for sharing a cool story. I imagine his grandfather is smiling about it, somewhere.
you should try on a 50 peso gold coin
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
This
TTT.
Today I looked at the pop report for the subject coin and the number of coins graded MS64 has increased from 209 (as reported by me in my post of 9-14-2023) to 210.
It is possible that the coin I was shown on 9-7-2023 at Long Beach is now the 210th such coin graded by PCGS as an MS64. The price guide values an MS64 at $50,000.00 (an MS64 was sold for $40,800.00 about 10 months ago).
Thank you for sharing.
I am saddened by the skepticism by some members. 🙁
That’s a coin that should go to the front of the line at PCGS. Modern stuff can wait.
I don't think that's an issue...it must go Walkthrough...that's front of the line
Very cool story!
As a kid, the man must have had some good principles drilled into him, one being to hold on to valuable items and not be impulsive for ‘quick cash!’
Heck, I don’t know anyone in my entire family of that age that I would trust with high dollar coins. And many of my adult relatives I feel the same way about! 😉
I saw the new MS64 (with the TrueView images) in the shared order page.
I can confirm they are NOT the same coin.
Coin Photographer.
Link please?🙏
After reading Alex's reply I have deleted the word "likely" in my post of 11:44 a.m. today and replaced it with the word "possible".
If Alex is willing to do so, I ask that he post the Trueview photo he mentioned and explain his reasoning for opining that the coin I saw and held is not the same as the coin in the Trueview.
I don't know about Al although I look forward to the link but I have a thought to throw out.
The guy had the coin graded 9/7. Due to value it had to be done as walkthrough. In theory, it should have already been in the pop report before you pulled the numbers on 9/14. I don't know how quickly the pops update but I would guess less than a week
I’ll try and find the link later today. No promises I can find it again.
The MS64 had two fairly obvious copper spots on the reverse that weren’t present in @SanctionII’s original pics.
Coin Photographer.