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PCGS competition for VaultBox - Ultra Breaks

U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

It looks like PCGS has entered into a partnership with a company that is doing card break style events with coins.

Professional Coin Grading Service (www.PCGS.com) was selected to create and debut a set of limited-edition holographic labels for a new program of 2023 Morgan and Peace Dollars. The limited-edition holders are available via Ultrabreaks, an innovative new company offering the coins in sealed packs that reveal which of the three holders is within only after the packaging is unwrapped.

“PCGS is excited to be involved in a new and innovative project that brings the excitement of random chance seen in other collectibles to the coin market,” said PCGS President Stephanie Sabin. “We wish everyone the best of luck!”

https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-ultrabreaks

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Comments

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    U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Vasanti said:
    That’s even worse that Vaultbox. It’s literally the same coin with only the label being “rare”. Barf.

    That is quite underwhelming but I could see it expand to random coins in the future.

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    fathomfathom Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wouldn't call it "worse".

    I would call it leveraging label collectibility. Holders and labels are collectible, that is a fact.

    It probably is "better" for the marketplace to leverage the label or holder in a game of chance rather than relegate the coin to a sweepstakes game. The value differential is less enticing. I think PCGS is viewing the card break sensation carefully at this point.

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    VasantiVasanti Posts: 448 ✭✭✭✭

    @fathom said:
    I wouldn't call it "worse".

    I would call it leveraging label collectibility. Holders and labels are collectible, that is a fact.

    It probably is "better" for the marketplace to leverage the label or holder in a game of chance rather than relegate the coin to a sweepstakes game. The value differential is less enticing. I think PCGS is viewing the card break sensation carefully at this point.

    I get why they are doing it, but the only really collectible labels are those labels that have unintended rarity, like first generation PCGS 108s or Doilies. This is intended, artificially manufactured rarity…just like super ultra hologram 1/5 insert sportsball cards. There are plenty of people willing to pay for it, but it generally isn’t a good use of money.

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    SIowhandSIowhand Posts: 319 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Had to double check that it wasn’t April 1st.

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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2023 11:13AM

    Talk about jumping the shark, disgusting. I consider myself a holder collector, but this is just an awful attempt to jump on a bandwagon.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @U1chicago said:

    @Vasanti said:
    That’s even worse that Vaultbox. It’s literally the same coin with only the label being “rare”. Barf.

    That is quite underwhelming but I could see it expand to random coins in the future.

    I've always been able to see a dozen ways to make it fun, profitable, and not very expensive.

    I think "fancy", limited edition slabs are awesome. How about some with original sketches or photographs? Signature series. Custom inserts.

    It's all just fun. I don't need to see yet another MS65 Morgan. Boring. I'd rather see an MS63 Morgan in a holder with an original sketch label. A medieval coin with a limited edition photograph of medieval artwork. Non-US coins with flag labels.

    Bring on the infinite variety of exonumia! Somebody slab a wooden nickel!

    Viva la chaos! Viva la FUN!

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Vasanti said:

    @fathom said:
    I wouldn't call it "worse".

    I would call it leveraging label collectibility. Holders and labels are collectible, that is a fact.

    It probably is "better" for the marketplace to leverage the label or holder in a game of chance rather than relegate the coin to a sweepstakes game. The value differential is less enticing. I think PCGS is viewing the card break sensation carefully at this point.

    I get why they are doing it, but the only really collectible labels are those labels that have unintended rarity, like first generation PCGS 108s or Doilies. This is intended, artificially manufactured rarity…just like super ultra hologram 1/5 insert sportsball cards. There are plenty of people willing to pay for it, but it generally isn’t a good use of money.

    I disagree a bit. People do often pay a premium for Mercanti labels... and he's signed his name more than any Treasury Secretary on record.

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    pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,638 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting concept. It is not for me to tell others what or how to collect. Enjoy the hobby however you wish.

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    knovak1976knovak1976 Posts: 222 ✭✭✭

    In my opinion they are cheapening the brand. There’s Silver Eagles with over 100 different inserts for ONE YEAR….and slick marketing makes it appear that the labels with populations of one, two, three, or even 10 are somehow ‘rare.’ It really turned me off so much that I literally quit collecting SE’s. At least with older coins there’s no FDOI’s, First Releases, First Strikes, etc…..and no marketing ploys to reel us in.

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    fathomfathom Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2023 11:09AM

    Yes that is the danger with too many rare labels.

    Lots of rarity, no demand.

    And frustrated collectors to try and keep up.

  • Options
    fathomfathom Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @U1chicago said:

    @Vasanti said:
    That’s even worse that Vaultbox. It’s literally the same coin with only the label being “rare”. Barf.

    That is quite underwhelming but I could see it expand to random coins in the future.

    I've always been able to see a dozen ways to make it fun, profitable, and not very expensive.

    I think "fancy", limited edition slabs are awesome. How about some with original sketches or photographs? Signature series. Custom inserts.

    It's all just fun. I don't need to see yet another MS65 Morgan. Boring. I'd rather see an MS63 Morgan in a holder with an original sketch label. A medieval coin with a limited edition photograph of medieval artwork. Non-US coins with flag labels.

    Bring on the infinite variety of exonumia! Somebody slab a wooden nickel!

    Viva la chaos! Viva la FUN!

    Wonderful. You vote disorderly marketplace.

    On Wall Street a disorderly market is defined as market manipulation, insider trading and price fixing, collusion.

    Most would prefer an orderly market.

  • Options
    habaracahabaraca Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    must bite my tongue on this one, or might be the dreaded boot

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    U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2023 11:33AM

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Lmfao

    Remember when people were criticizing NGC for working with VB? Lmfao

    I love both ideas. It's all just fun.

    Let's get some ancients in mystery boxes. Let's actually get registry sets that you have to complete buying boxes.

    Let's have fun.

    Here's my newest fun pick-up. $10 for 1/1000th of an ounce of silver. But I LOVE it. It's besutiful. It's fun. And if it's worth 3 cents some day. I DON'T CARE!!!

    My first thought was about those posts that said PCGS would never do something like this. I wonder if any of them will comment on this thread?

  • Options
    U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2023 11:34AM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @U1chicago said:

    @Vasanti said:
    That’s even worse that Vaultbox. It’s literally the same coin with only the label being “rare”. Barf.

    That is quite underwhelming but I could see it expand to random coins in the future.

    I've always been able to see a dozen ways to make it fun, profitable, and not very expensive.

    I think "fancy", limited edition slabs are awesome. How about some with original sketches or photographs? Signature series. Custom inserts.

    It's all just fun. I don't need to see yet another MS65 Morgan. Boring. I'd rather see an MS63 Morgan in a holder with an original sketch label. A medieval coin with a limited edition photograph of medieval artwork. Non-US coins with flag labels.

    Bring on the infinite variety of exonumia! Somebody slab a wooden nickel!

    Viva la chaos! Viva la FUN!

    I could be more impressed with a fancier label (something that has custom sketches/artwork like you mention).
    I'm not impressed with this offering since it seems to just be a few colors and holograms (not much effort from my viewpoint).

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    MetroDMetroD Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2023 11:52AM

    Price for 2023 Unc. 'Morgan/Peace' U/B pack:


    Source: https://ultrabreaks.com/products/ultrabreaks-peace-and-morgan-pcgs-ms70-pack-series

    Edited to Add:
    The PCGS 'pop report' currently shows some U/B coin numbers for the 2023 Proof 'Morgan/Peace' dollars. So, it look like a second release is in the works.

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Lmfao

    Remember when people were criticizing NGC for working with VB? Lmfao

    I love both ideas. It's all just fun.

    Let's get some ancients in mystery boxes. Let's actually get registry sets that you have to complete buying boxes.

    Let's have fun.

    Here's my newest fun pick-up. $10 for 1/1000th of an ounce of silver. But I LOVE it. It's besutiful. It's fun. And if it's worth 3 cents some day. I DON'T CARE!!!

    That looks nice 👍

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fathom said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @U1chicago said:

    @Vasanti said:
    That’s even worse that Vaultbox. It’s literally the same coin with only the label being “rare”. Barf.

    That is quite underwhelming but I could see it expand to random coins in the future.

    I've always been able to see a dozen ways to make it fun, profitable, and not very expensive.

    I think "fancy", limited edition slabs are awesome. How about some with original sketches or photographs? Signature series. Custom inserts.

    It's all just fun. I don't need to see yet another MS65 Morgan. Boring. I'd rather see an MS63 Morgan in a holder with an original sketch label. A medieval coin with a limited edition photograph of medieval artwork. Non-US coins with flag labels.

    Bring on the infinite variety of exonumia! Somebody slab a wooden nickel!

    Viva la chaos! Viva la FUN!

    Wonderful. You vote disorderly marketplace.

    On Wall Street a disorderly market is defined as market manipulation, insider trading and price fixing, collusion.

    Most would prefer an orderly market.

    Would you rather have 1000 magazines to choose from or just one?

    Having choice in the market is NOT equivalent to having a disorderly market. Not at all. The Market will very efficiently price all the coin options, as it does now.

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MetroD said:
    Price for 2023 Unc. 'Morgan/Peace' U/B pack:


    Source: https://ultrabreaks.com/products/ultrabreaks-peace-and-morgan-pcgs-ms70-pack-series

    That's only about double what a 1st strike PCGS 70 costs.

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @johnny9434 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Lmfao

    Remember when people were criticizing NGC for working with VB? Lmfao

    I love both ideas. It's all just fun.

    Let's get some ancients in mystery boxes. Let's actually get registry sets that you have to complete buying boxes.

    Let's have fun.

    Here's my newest fun pick-up. $10 for 1/1000th of an ounce of silver. But I LOVE it. It's besutiful. It's fun. And if it's worth 3 cents some day. I DON'T CARE!!!

    That looks nice 👍

    Thanks!

    It's very pretty. It makes me happy.

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @U1chicago said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @U1chicago said:

    @Vasanti said:
    That’s even worse that Vaultbox. It’s literally the same coin with only the label being “rare”. Barf.

    That is quite underwhelming but I could see it expand to random coins in the future.

    I've always been able to see a dozen ways to make it fun, profitable, and not very expensive.

    I think "fancy", limited edition slabs are awesome. How about some with original sketches or photographs? Signature series. Custom inserts.

    It's all just fun. I don't need to see yet another MS65 Morgan. Boring. I'd rather see an MS63 Morgan in a holder with an original sketch label. A medieval coin with a limited edition photograph of medieval artwork. Non-US coins with flag labels.

    Bring on the infinite variety of exonumia! Somebody slab a wooden nickel!

    Viva la chaos! Viva la FUN!

    I could be more impressed with a fancier label (something that has custom sketches/artwork like you mention).
    I'm not impressed with this offering since it seems to just be a few colors and holograms (not much effort from my viewpoint).

    I agree. I won't be playing. But I'm okay with those that do. It will be interesting to see what the rate label fetches in the secondary market.

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does anyone know who the principals are?

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    BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Since it's only the label that matters, let's cut out the middleman and leave the coin out of the holder.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • Options
    MetroDMetroD Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Does anyone know who the principals are?

    FWIW, the PCGS article in the OP quotes Justin Duane, owner of CoinsTV.

  • Options
    U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Does anyone know who the principals are?

    In the PCGS articles it says this:
    “We’re thrilled to introduce a groundbreaking concept to the world of coin collecting – the very first 'packs of coins,’” said Justin Duane, owner of CoinsTV

  • Options
    U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MetroD said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Does anyone know who the principals are?

    FWIW, the PCGS article in the OP quotes Justin Duane, owner of CoinsTV.

    Beat me to it! :)

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    jeffas1974jeffas1974 Posts: 315 ✭✭✭

    I’d prefer vaultbox over this since you’re only paying up for for the slab that may or may not have any premium at the end of the day but to each his own.

    I attempted to make a new post about this subject early this am but it’s still held up for review by PCGS. Is there a moderator that I can “@“ for them to just kill it since it’s now superfluous?

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @U1chicago said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Does anyone know who the principals are?

    In the PCGS articles it says this:
    “We’re thrilled to introduce a groundbreaking concept to the world of coin collecting – the very first 'packs of coins,’” said Justin Duane, owner of CoinsTV

    @U1chicago said:

    @MetroD said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Does anyone know who the principals are?

    FWIW, the PCGS article in the OP quotes Justin Duane, owner of CoinsTV.

    Beat me to it! :)

    Thanks. Is he the only one? He's not really known to me.

    I went to his website but that's all I know.

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    NGC and PCGS are making themselves the new ICG and ANACS. I hope CACG holds the line.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:
    I’d prefer vaultbox over this since you’re only paying up for for the slab that may or may not have any premium at the end of the day but to each his own.

    I attempted to make a new post about this subject early this am but it’s still held up for review by PCGS. Is there a moderator that I can “@“ for them to just kill it since it’s now superfluous?

    It's not really up for review. That's a bug. The posts never come back.

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BStrauss3 said:
    Since it's only the label that matters, let's cut out the middleman and leave the coin out of the holder.

    That would be a rare "error"... and about a accidental as a few others I can think of.

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    BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:
    NGC and PCGS are making themselves the new ICG and ANACS. I hope CACG holds the line.

    Too late. Remember the earliest days of talk about CACG - no modern coins, etc.?

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe we could just slab the labels

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @U1chicago said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Does anyone know who the principals are?

    In the PCGS articles it says this:
    “We’re thrilled to introduce a groundbreaking concept to the world of coin collecting – the very first 'packs of coins,’” said Justin Duane, owner of CoinsTV

    @U1chicago said:

    @MetroD said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Does anyone know who the principals are?

    FWIW, the PCGS article in the OP quotes Justin Duane, owner of CoinsTV.

    Beat me to it! :)

    Thanks. Is he the only one? He's not really known to me.

    I went to his website but that's all I know.

    I did not see anyone else mentioned. And I also don't know who he is.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BStrauss3 said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    NGC and PCGS are making themselves the new ICG and ANACS. I hope CACG holds the line.

    Too late. Remember the earliest days of talk about CACG - no modern coins, etc.?

    They never said that, to my knowledge. No grading company could stay in business on classic coins.

    And what is the problem with grading moderns? Those are legitimate, widely collected coins.

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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No new 2 point grading scale to go along with it?

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @messydesk said:
    No new 2 point grading scale to go along with it?

    They are all 70s. They only need a 1 point system.

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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Two grades. 69 and 70 (or 9.9 and 10). Three if you also count "no."

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    WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow! I read through the website and I have no interest in this product at all.

    Good luck to those that want to buy it. I will be monitoring the website on release day. Personally I don't think they will sell out😂🤣

    Only 600 packs available but who cares? Price is way too expensive in my opinion. Risk/Reward is to great on the Risk side and price point is way too high.

    In my opinion VaultBox is a far superior product and caters to the trading card crowd mentality.

    Ultra Breaks product is a big miss in my opinion, lacks imagination and misreads the intended market.

    I am truly shocked PCGS is participating in this program.🤔

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    1madman1madman Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I thought everyone only collects labels nowadays, and the coins inside don’t matter?

    What’s the difference between a common coin in a doily label and this new product?

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB said:
    Does anyone else keep reading this as "ultra beaks"?

    No

    @1madman said:
    I thought everyone only collects labels nowadays, and the coins inside don’t matter?

    What’s the difference between a common coin in a doily label and this new product?

    One is an accidental rarity and the other is a manufactured rarity.

    But some people would collect both.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WQuarterFreddie said:
    Wow! I read through the website and I have no interest in this product at all.

    Good luck to those that want to buy it. I will be monitoring the website on release day. Personally I don't think they will sell out😂🤣

    Only 600 packs available but who cares? Price is way too expensive in my opinion. Risk/Reward is to great on the Risk side and price point is way too high.

    In my opinion VaultBox is a far superior product and caters to the trading card crowd mentality.

    Ultra Breaks product is a big miss in my opinion, lacks imagination and misreads the intended market.

    I am truly shocked PCGS is participating in this program.🤔

    I think they'll probably sell out. 600 isn't a lot.

    Look what people were paying for the signed Peace $ COAs of a nobody important. With only 3 of the slab type available, some people will be interested.

    VB should at least update their website. They don't even mention VB4 as a future thing.

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    jeffas1974jeffas1974 Posts: 315 ✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @TomB said:
    Does anyone else keep reading this as "ultra beaks"?

    No

    @1madman said:
    I thought everyone only collects labels nowadays, and the coins inside don’t matter?

    What’s the difference between a common coin in a doily label and this new product?

    One is an accidental rarity and the other is a manufactured rarity.

    But some people would collect both.

    Another difference is that that the doily label has a track record of people paying a premium.

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    1madman1madman Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @TomB said:
    Does anyone else keep reading this as "ultra beaks"?

    No

    @1madman said:
    I thought everyone only collects labels nowadays, and the coins inside don’t matter?

    What’s the difference between a common coin in a doily label and this new product?

    One is an accidental rarity and the other is a manufactured rarity.

    But some people would collect both.

    Another difference is that that the doily label has a track record of people paying a premium.

    I guess these coins selling at $249 is the premium, and no further upside shot from that. Common doilies should be ~$50 slabs, but their premium takes them into the multi hundred dollar range. That make sense. Probably should have priced these at the $129 number to create a better buzz for future releases.

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