A Hundred Years of Devaluation
pmh1nic
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Here is what a hundred years of devaluation looks like. Not just devaluation in economic value but in my opinion devaluation in design. I don’t see anything in circulation today that rivals Morgan’s, Barber’s, Merc’s, Walkers, etc.
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Beautiful sac dollar. Best coin design in the last 100 years.
After owning and selling a few of the 5OZ ATB‘s I think Washington Quarters are ecspecially unattractive compared to barber/standing Liberty quarters.
The main damage was done when the gold and silver were removed from coins.
In think you're right. All beautiful classic, engraving, designed, silver coins intended for circulation. Those days are gone forever.
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I don't think it is impossible to prefer the Sac to the Morgan. The reverse is, in my opinion, vastly superior on the Sac.
Personally, I also think the obverse Liberty was tied with V nickels for the worst depiction of Liberty in 150 years. The later depictions by Barber and Weinnann are far better. I would even go so far as to say that the modern Liberty depictions on the Liberty medals are superior to the Morgan.
I think part of the problem is a lack of new coin designs. Lincoln is still on the cent, Jefferson on the nickel, Roosevelt on the dime, Washington on the Quarter, etc. I also think they should change these designs, and bring back the half dollar.
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The half dollar never left (several million new ones were released to circulation in recent years), but demand for the Kennedy half in everyday transactions is nearly nonexistent. The deeper problem is loss of utility due to inflation. Coins are still the same size as in 1913, but their purchasing power is only 3 percent of what it was then. The largest coin in general circulation (the quarter) is worth less than a cent was in 1913. Today a roll of quarters will barely buy a fast-food lunch. Unless today's coins are replaced with coins with real purchasing power, the designs will not matter.
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It's worth mentioning that at the time these "Classic" designs were in use the public using them didn't especially like them. Further, in another 100 years the public will be looking at the current designs with admiration. That's a phenomenon that takes place with most things, not just coinage designs: what was always seems better than what is.
Kinda reminds me of my old tie rack of narrow and wide ties, of which I don't wear anymore. Peace Roy
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Imagine a clad Morgan Dollar sitting next to a beautifully toned silver Sacagawea. Now, which is the better design?
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Compare it with this one.
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Since when does "beautiful toning" have anything to do with the design? They are two different features on a coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Or this…..nice toning, still kinda fugly:
B lol Maaa> @PerryHall said:
Of course, but look at the OP.
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Do you think the SBA is poorly designed, or is it the subject matter that displeases you?
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Just contributing to a thread, that I happen to agree with, that I also prefer the classic designs to the modern ones, even when nicely toned. Please don’t try to read anymore into it.
Based upon pictures/paintings I have seen, I don't know of any way to make the design itself any better and maintain any fidelity to the SBA's image, however, just reducing the size of the Ike reverse was lazy.
Maybe if the image of SBA had been an entire human frame in an action pose as opposed to the up close that really isn't a handsome image.
Exactly. I prefer the modern dollar in any case.
But this hardly absolves Congress of what they have done and are doing to the dollar for the last 123 years.
There's some truth in there. I like the Morgan dollar design overall but Morgan was an inferior engraver compared to Longacre or Barber. He engraved in shallower relief. (Barber did that too with the nickel which is probably why you don't like it either)
The last, what I would call "classical" engraver, was Gilroy Roberts. His Kennedy half obverse is vastly superior to Gasparro's reverse and chopped-liver Ike dollar. After Roberts left, things went downhill from there. Elizabeth Jones was given some great subject material, but had trouble with perspectives.
Washington and his out-of-socket arm is an example.
Liberty's head on a tree trunk and velcro attached ear.
Yes I think it is true the devices on earlier coins had more intricate details. Also the hubs were prepared with more relief which give more aesthetic appeal.
Actually I think the Hubs were redone on the Morgan reverse on the later years and they are a bit shallow with less detail, especially eagle breast feathers.
It's partly the shallower relief. But, in part due to that relief, Liberty ends up looking a bit masculine.
Almost all of the state quarters have a way better design that the boring Morgan Dollar.
The Sacagawea designs are awesome.
Fantastic modern designs everywhere.
Yes, I am a professional artist.
When is the last time you saw a beautiful president?
If you want attractive coinage, let’s start by going back to Liberty.
So is Hunter Biden.
It's just nostalgia. If the Sac were 100 years old and the Morgan was new, the opinions would likely flip.
No, it's about art. The Morgan is ugly and the Sacagawea is beautiful .
Nostalgia, yes. That is why so many like the Morgan altho it is ugly.
It's naïve of us to think that our money system doesn't need a major overhaul once in a while. Inflation affects all currencies in all countries. At a 7% inflation rate, the actual purchasing power of money drops 50% every 6 years or so. Even at 4% it does it in a decade.
Even without the movement to electronic transactions, all of our current denominations are becoming irrelevant. When the half-cent was discontinued for insufficient purchasing power, it was worth 18 cents today. By the same logic, we could already get rid of everything below a quarter, and even it will be useless in a few years. Since that's our largest coin in actual use, unless something changes, coins are just about done for being actual instruments of commerce.
Design is all but dead. Look at modern matchstick housing. Everything looks the same now days. Not to mention poor quality too.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Design is alive and well and kicking ass.
Quality depends on the product, company, and price. You have the choice.
Just look at Apple Products
Maybe there is some commingling going on here. I much prefer the Morgan design over the Sac but in part an element of that may be connected to the economic value in the Morgan versus the Sac. As for nostalgia and the appeal 100 years from now, the Sac will be 100+ and Morgan 200+. I don’t think nostalgia is going to make up for the popular preference of the Morgan over the Sac. The Sac will never overshadow the Morgan in design, variety (die marriages, die states, places minted, etc.) beauty of toning, etc.
The first time I went to a major coin show as an adult, all I saw was a sea of Morgan Dollars everywhere at almost every table, so I agree that they are popular.
The second I got home, I pulled out all my Morgan Dollars and sold them as that coin series is way, way too common for me.
Somehow, I just bought one ....
As far as I am concerned, the reverse of the original Sacagawea dollar is exceptionally good.
Tom Rogers captured the majesty and movement of the eagle in flight while meeting the mint's modern "coinability" standards (low relief). It is no small achievement.
What the Sac Dollar could have looked like.
I posted the above Morgan Dollar Clip (albeit small) and here is a National Parks bigger clip.
One coin has a beautiful design and is extremely rare and is worth way, way more than the other.
Guess which is which ...
You mean the Liberty Dollar, yuck, copy and paste "Liberty" over and over again.
The US mint absolutely made the correct choice with the Sacagawea Dollar Series
Craftsmanship and artistic design are two different things.
But I think everyone can appreciate a high grade Morgan DMPL as a beautifully crafted silver coin.
Actually automotive quality has never been higher. But, again, nostalgia...
Design changes would be nice on all denominations. Especially the obverses. It would help if they could be a bit higher relief as well.
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That’s probably my favorite quarter of all the moderns. Absolutely beautiful design!
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A shame about the metal though; why not real gold ?
Of course it is a shame that the alloy does not keep its luster like gold would, but real gold is just not practical for commerce anymore. But the Sac is one of my favorite USA coin designs. I sure wish we had stuck to it, and dropped all the other small dollars (both SBA and the later yellow ones), maybe then it would be familiar and not confusing to average people and would actually circulate.
I hate how modern coins have flat, un-detailed obverses, yet cluttered, detailed obverses. Let alone the fact that most of the coin is just lettering.
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Actually, I do. The fact that the size and color was so close to the quarter made this coin genuinely confusing with the end result that a dollar coin has never really circulated in the USA. That is not the engraver's fault though!
Not only is the SBA poorly designed it is one of the ugliest coins ever minted by the USM.
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In a circulating dollar? Do you know how small it would be?
Circulating bullion is a huge mistake, by the way. If bullion spikes in value, all your coinage gets melted.
The Sac was intended for circulation as a coin valued at $1. Gold in 2000, the year the coin was introduced, was about $280/oz so a dollars worth of gold would have been 1/280th of an ounce (about 0.1 grams). In comparison pennies weight about 2.5 grams each.
I know I'm in the minority but the design of the SBA has grown on me over the years. I have come to appreciate some of the work of Frank Gasparro, which has a distinctive look. I also like the high relief of the first SBAs (the 1999 incarnation has a lower relief).
On a side note, FG offered to pretty up the portrait a bit but SBA's family said no, preferring to keep it more realistic.
In reference to the above cars. I've often wondered how police can tell one car brand from another. I know I can't. I tried to unlock a white car that resembled mine in a parking lot once. Just about a dead ringer for mine, but a different brand.
The similarity of cars has less to do with design and new to do with the laws of aerodynamics and the economics of supply chains.
I think the state/territory/America the beautiful quarter series disprove the devolution of coins. Those are technically very nice minting's in a way the past would be unable to match.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
What choice do the government have in 1965? Once the silver coins melted for more than their face value, there was no way to keep them in circulation.
As for the gold, the Franklin Roosevelt administration decided to take control of it and devalued the dollar to make U.S. exports more attractive abroad. We can debate that policy, but in the modern world a gold dollar would be about as big as a grain of sand. More was involved with that "inflation" than merely taking gold out of domestic circulation.