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How much value do you ascribe to color on a coin your considering for purchase ?

bidaskbidask Posts: 13,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 6, 2023 10:30AM in World & Ancient Coins Forum

I know it’s a matter of degrees but let’s say your faced with this scenario:

You find two coins you like of the same series / denomination/ date and want to buy only one specimen ……….you have 2 choices

1) the coin is brilliant luster but fully meets the grade assigned ….no doubts !

2 ) you find another specimen that also fully meets the grade assigned yet has beautiful toning and lustrous as well

What maximum percentage,if any , would you pay to buy the toned colorful coin ?

Just curious

I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




Comments

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Depends on the coin but could be multiples

  • Personally, it’s a matter of set consistency.

    I conceptualise my collection in terms of sets and subsets. A beautifully coloured coin can look out-of-place or awkward if presented alongside a grouping of uncoloured coins. The reverse is equally true.

    When considering a coin for purchase, I carefully consider how it fits within my existing or planned future sets. For a close match I am certainly willing to pay a premium. In terms of a percentage, that would scale with value.

  • dizzleccdizzlecc Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭

    Always a tough question, especially with world coins. Color premium goes along with any unique premium such as prooflike or variety. Two questions to consider. One, is there a market for the toning, meaning would there be other buyers who pay the premium for the toning, in this case the premium can be based on market pricing and be multiples of the assigned grade. Good example is Morgan dollars. Two, does the toning simply add to the overall eye appeal, if so then the premium depends on the level of toning, then it could be anywhere from an additional grade or in between grades like a plus.

  • SimonWSimonW Posts: 572 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Depends on many factors, at least 20% more, but perhaps double if it’s wonderful. I have a hard time paying more than that, premium wise.

    I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.

  • neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2023 6:38PM

    It really depends, but I am definitely willing to pay more for eye appeal. There is no guide for this. It is each person's personal preference.

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

  • 1984worldcoins1984worldcoins Posts: 595 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love toned coins, but it needs to be natural toning, or to look like it is natural (since we are not able sometimes to tell the difference). So I will pay more if colors are beautiful and natural.

    Coinsof1984@martinb6830 on twitter

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bidask said:
    I know it’s a matter of degrees but let’s say your faced with this scenario:

    You find two coins you like of the same series / denomination/ date and want to buy only one specimen ……….you have 2 choices

    1) the coin is brilliant luster but fully meets the grade assigned ….no doubts !

    2 ) you find another specimen that also fully meets the grade assigned yet has beautiful toning and lustrous as well

    What maximum percentage,if any , would you pay to buy the toned colorful coin ?

    Just curious

    I often pay a premium for color. But not all color is the same. It's hard to find the right kind of toning and combination of toning and luster, as former affects the latter. I've passed on plenty of coins that were technically MS, but the toning was starting to border on terminal or luster was being impaired by heavy toning.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,681 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Color and the overall appearance is obviously worth paying for but there simply is no blueprint as to valuations unless one looks at the coin, the surviving population by grades and then figure a discounted survival rate based on the likelihood of original surface preservation. Color and toning is not always a subset of original surfaces. I would rather own what I perceive as original surfaces over blast white- especially in those series I am serious about finding what I like which may not always be pretty. Instead, I do like to own at least one example within a series that really captures the essence of the coin, the design and its intended purpose.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • SapyxSapyx Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In my head, the answer is a clear "not much if any", because the colour of a coin is the most ephemeral component of its current state of appearance. The colour will not stay that way forever, even if I do my best to preserve it, so it's probably for the best that I not get too attached to it.

    In practice, however, I probably would pay extra for the "coloured" coin, especially if I suspected the "brilliant" one might have been dipped.

    Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.
    Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"

    Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD. B)
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There are plenty of gems of this date that are white in 65 and 66 even 67 .

    But I like this one for its color 🤓

    http://bluccphotos.com/clients/bidask/8-31-15/Pages/30.html

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭✭✭

    2 for me.

    When I'm able to obtain the right combination of luster and color, I personally find there is justification for paying up for that particular example. Bright white & lustrous just doesn't get me excited.

  • John ConduittJohn Conduitt Posts: 346 ✭✭✭

    If it’s an older coin, it shouldn’t be bright white or very colourful. Either show you someone messed with it. Some genuinely get a little colour sometimes, but it will change and you don’t know how quickly.

    The TrueView images are not true at all, unless you always view your coins at funny angles.

  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,666 ✭✭✭✭✭

    None.

    image
  • RSPRSP Posts: 64 ✭✭

    Double bid coins have been around forever. Buy what ypu like.

  • 1984worldcoins1984worldcoins Posts: 595 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @John Conduitt said:
    If it’s an older coin, it shouldn’t be bright white or very colourful. Either show you someone messed with it. Some genuinely get a little colour sometimes, but it will change and you don’t know how quickly.

    The TrueView images are not true at all, unless you always view your coins at funny angles.

    Maybe the colour will change, but when? I am in my mid 50's , if the colour will change in 30 years I realy dont care. Also, the True view pictures capture the best image/angle of the coin, I love them. Phil Arnold - the best.

    Coinsof1984@martinb6830 on twitter

  • OrlenaOrlena Posts: 300 ✭✭✭

    Zero. I guess natural toning is interesting, but nowadays folks have figured out ways to fool Mother Nature to produce some wild colors

  • realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 339 ✭✭✭

    @Orlena said:
    Zero. I guess natural toning is interesting, but nowadays folks have figured out ways to fool Mother Nature to produce some wild colors

    All about the depth...

  • John ConduittJohn Conduitt Posts: 346 ✭✭✭

    @1984worldcoins said:

    Maybe the colour will change, but when? I am in my mid 50's , if the colour will change in 30 years I realy dont care. Also, the True view pictures capture the best image/angle of the coin, I love them. Phil Arnold - the best.

    Well, 'when' is the question. I've seen some coins darken considerably in a few weeks. Others stay unchanged for decades. If you have them stored somewhere away from light and sulphur (i.e. the air) they will probably take a long time to change, but who knows.

    The TrueView pictures show the most rainbowed-up view, as if someone turned up the colour saturation in Photoshop. Whether that's the best is a matter of opinion, although collectors who like slabs and collectors who like bright rainbow toning are probably fairly well aligned. But what it isn't is a 'true' view.

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For an inexpensive coin with the nicest toning I could imagine, perhaps 500-1000% or more. I could see paying $10-$20 for a knockout $2 stunner.
    For 100-400 year old English silver, it would depend on how nice (somewhat subjective) but something in the 10-100% range would be more appropriate.
    For the Mexican Peso to which you have linked, maybe 10-25% premium. To me that color says original and undoctored.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • BjornBjorn Posts: 529 ✭✭✭

    I think like many others, it depends on the particular coin. I think I prefer a mild toning, the sort that tends to be even and often (but obviously not always) one of several diagnostics of an original coin. I don't have a dislike of blast white per se, but often it is artificial on older pieces, and I have a fear that any such coins in my care may suddenty tone in an unattractive manner! At least if the coin already has some toning it may act as a brake on any further toning.

  • kruegerkrueger Posts: 792 ✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2023 5:32PM

    @Orlena said:
    Zero. I guess natural toning is interesting, but nowadays folks have figured out ways to fool Mother Nature to produce some wild colors

    Because of the above. You had better study . what real toning looks like, especially before you pay the dealers " Toning Tax". ( there are books and CDs out there on this subject) ,and get good at looking underneath the toning for flaws,
    I like Babyborn minted (white) luster some call these " Full Mint Luster", "Blazers" (no toning) at all. fresh from the mint.
    I will pay up for such, paying attention to them of being dipped or MS70'd. Crusty older grey coins I am OK with.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,383 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would pay a small premium for great, colorful, natural toning, but I would not go overboard. I have U.S. coins, especially the “old commemoratives” go up in price from several hundred dollars to $50,000 for “killer toning.” It’s nice to view, but I would never pay such premiums, even if I had the net worth to do it without flinching.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    I would pay a small premium for great, colorful, natural toning, but I would not go overboard. I have U.S. coins, especially the “old commemoratives” go up in price from several hundred dollars to $50,000 for “killer toning.” It’s nice to view, but I would never pay such premiums, even if I had the net worth to do it without flinching.

    Although I'm not one to pay 50K for a colorful commem, I still have to ask the question. Does it make sense to pay a big premium for a grade point or two or three but not be willing to pay a big premium for "killer toning"?

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would pay more for colorful toning.

  • I pay tad more for certain rainbow tone coins … I’m not going to pay a high wacky premium just for rainbow toning it happened naturally no need tax it anymore like it’s a special coin… another problem try sell back to a dealer see if they give you more money for rainbow toned coin they’ll treat it like blast white coins … MS65 is MS65 regardless of the color of the coin

  • GotTheBugGotTheBug Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2023 4:50AM

    @neildrobertson said:
    It really depends, but I am definitely willing to pay more for eye appeal. There is no guide for this. It is each person's personal preference.

    I'm with Neil on this one. Eye appeal is paramount, along with strict originality.

    (Edited for typo).

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,383 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2023 5:42AM

    @MrEureka said:

    @BillJones said:
    I would pay a small premium for great, colorful, natural toning, but I would not go overboard. I have U.S. coins, especially the “old commemoratives” go up in price from several hundred dollars to $50,000 for “killer toning.” It’s nice to view, but I would never pay such premiums, even if I had the net worth to do it without flinching.

    Although I'm not one to pay 50K for a colorful commem, I still have to ask the question. Does it make sense to pay a big premium for a grade point or two or three but not be willing to pay a big premium for "killer toning"?

    For me, everything is eye appeal. If I like it and agree with the grade, which usually sets the price, I'm interested.

    So far as killer toning goes, I won't pay for it, period. The prices for that stuff is almost always outrageous, and I simply will not pay those premiums. I would rather have the money in a rare type than I can barely afford than a super common coin that looks like a Los Vegas neon sign.

    Here's one of the few times I paid for toning. This Columbian Half Dollar is an MS-63 holder. I paid MS-64 money for it. At the time that was something like $85 to $125. The dealer who owned the piece had sent it in twice for an upgrade, and it had failed.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I once bid on a nice looking PCGS UNC Detail coin for more than doubling the market price and I still lost the bid. Many bidders will bid high for nice looking toned coins.

  • kruegerkrueger Posts: 792 ✭✭✭

    Ah! I've seen one recently go for $800. That was at best a $ 200. Coin! That a 4x pop.
    Let that sucker be the buyer as he will be an old man when he hopes to get his money back.

    Dealers that sell such refer to this as a " toning tax." Remember toning is surface damage.
    At the heart of it.

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