Warning for those who still pay some bills using mailed checks
CommemDude
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A check I mailed to a brokerage house was stolen while in possession of the postal service, name was washed away and new payee name written in...... check cleared the bank.
In Millburn, NJ, a very upscale town in N NJ, a postal carrier was attacked by two men while delivering mail and his bag stolen, possibly for this purpose.
Dr Mikey
Commems and Early Type
Commems and Early Type
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How do you 'wash away' without messing up check? Was it deposited by photo? Would they not be able to trace back who got the deposit?
A few years ago I got scammed on the BST with a printed check with bogus bank routing/account information. It took 5 weeks until it made it back to me with my additional bank charges.
Ive tried it once as an experiment, you can put the check in isopropyl alcohol and the ink will dissolve. When I did it, it still left some residual color and shadow of the old text but the ink was almost gone. Im sure the professionals have improved methods and can make it look untampered.
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I am not a criminal so I do not know how they managed to cleanly wash part of the check away. Bank is now trying to determine how the check was presented. I have posted this to warn others that even if your dry cleaner discards your check after photo depositing it and it's fished out of his garbage, it can be altered and re-deposited.
This criminal activity is widely known to be occurring now in Northern NJ
Commems and Early Type
This isn't just done on checks, but has historically been done on currency, as well.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
As someone in the financial services industry, I have warned clients (predominantly seniors) about this for 15 years. Many people of a certain generation are more distrustful of electronic payments or online bill pay and would rather use checks. It's easier for them to imagine the unknown "hacker" stealing their information rather than this method which is MANY times more common.
All good points.
It's worth noting that many thefts like this occur from the blue USPS drop boxes. The best place to deposit mail is inside the PO or if in a drop box, in a well lit and well traveled area.
Thanks for posting, it is good to know and something to watch for. Sorry for the mess that you now have to deal with.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
On the BST? say it ain't so...
Yes, the scammers are always seeking improved methods. Not surprising that this has been improved over the years. I have gone almost exclusively to electronic payments. I do shop with cash, still checking change for the elusive W quarters. Cheers, RickO
Super! Just what society needs...another ignorance and fear-based person puking fear on others over a million's to one odds occurrence. This paranoia and exploration thereof is what has allowed society to be brainwashed into believing that corporate America cares about you and that your fellow man is the enemy.
Disgusting!
Here's a paranoid free emotionless FACT: the odes of your mail getting "lost" is 1 in 20,000. Of those less than 1% are theft. I think that equates to a .005% loss rate and a .00005% (aka 1 in 2 million) theft rate.
Here's another fun FACT: Your chances of being killed in a car crash are 1 on 103.
So yes, let's all get paranoid about 1 in 2 million chance of a check getting stolen from the USPS so that our dear friends Corporate America can step in and rescue (take absolute control over) us all.
UGH!
Is there no more courageous, intelligent self-thought left in humanity?
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This is scary. I've been trying to get my mom to pay bills online when possible. Also to get her signed up to review her bank accounts online so she doesn't have to wait until the end of the month to get a statement in the mail.
She can check by phone but that's definitely not the same as looking to see if anything suspicious is happening.
What size for your tin foil hat?
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Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
While I agree with your general sentiment, those statistics are apples and oranges. That's a 1 in 2 million chance of a single letter being stolen versus a lifetime odds of 1 in 103, i.e. not 1 in 103 for every car trip.
If you send 20,000 letters in your lifetime, the odds are actually similar.
If you figure paying just 5 bills per month by mail during 60 adult years of life, that's 3600 checks mailed. That's a roughly 1 in 5.6 change of one being lost and a roughly 1 in 560 chance of having a check stolen.
So you're still 5.5x more likely to be killed in a car crash but the odds are closer than you make them out.
And, of course, the more important question is the odds of electronic theft vs mail theft. And what are the odds of actual unreimbursed loss via the two methods of payment?
It's hilarious that this troll has four total posts since he joined a year ago, one of which is a tribute to Stuart Blay (which is actually a not veiled jab at CAC), another rant against CAC, a rant against auction houses (particularly great collections), and now a rant against... electronic payments I guess?
He doesn't like corporate America, really curious about his take on the government!
i use money orders or go online to pay bills saw no use in using checks to pay bills
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1997-present
I've heard that writing out your checks with ball point pens is safer than using gel ink pens...they are harder to wash off and leave impressions. Gel inks just wash away.
I will give up my checks when they pry them from my cold dead hands.
This has happened since checks first came out. The way to solve it is to use a pen that does not wash. It's called Uniball. They write wonderfully and checks cannot be erased as the ink is permanent.
bob
I prefer these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002LD1VC?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
Have a couple bud lights and try to relax.
I would have to disagree with this statement,,,,,,, I was on the interstate today and encountered several hundred cars and I am still here.
I like Uniball pens.
Ultra fine point Sharpies are also a permanent choice (except they will bleed through the paper).
Glad I haven't written a check in years!!!
No need to
Mike
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I guess it's only a big deal if it happens to you.
Check washing has been around as long as there have been checks, and is why I only use them if I have to.
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What I have seen is far more simpler than "washing" a check. The problem, in my opinion, is the mobile deposit option. A person no longer has to tender the paper check where any physical evidence would be. They upload an image. A person hacks or steals a legitimate check image, runs it through a text editor, and changes the check number, the payee name, the dollar amount , the memo line but leaves the signature line. And this can be very obvious, everything original was hand written but the text editor is type font. But the suspect will mobile deposit that image then edit the check number and re-deposit the check again. And again. I have seen where the signature on the back is not even the same back design of the original check and the signed endorsed name is not even that of the payee name. It is scary stuff.
I haven't done what you mention exactly, but once when I wanted to deposit via internet several checks that I wanted to keep in mint condition (future collectibles since checks are less and less common), I added my signature and account number to a small sheet of clear plastic that I just put on the scanner under each check.
Not fraudulent by any means, but the bar was set pretty low for approval, so I could see the wrong back photos being accepted.
That's actually your lifetime odds.
Those fatal car crash odds are a bit misleading in my view.
Culled from the Interwebs:
Despite this sobering statistic, the risk of dying in a car accident can be significantly reduced with simple measures such as wearing a seatbelt, following speed limits, and avoiding distracted driving.
Adhering to these safety guidelines can significantly reduce your chances of being involved in fatal car crashes.
and
The average American has a 1% chance of dying in a car accident, but this can increase depending on driving habits, such as longer commutes and night driving, gender, age, and mental stability.
So, as I see it, surviving your teens and 20s puts you in a lower risk group, for example. Wearing a seatbelt significantly reduces it further.
There are many factors that are well within a driver's control that can increase or decrease the odds.
He's working for the FBI last I heard.
More access to checks now.
The odds are what they are: aggregated.
You can also mitigate mail losses by always using registered mail or private courier.
It's been a while - remind me again - what's a check??
There are Permanent Ink pens that are affordable that can be used and i do not believe the checks could be washed then.
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How about those emails that tell you that someone is charging you hundreds for something you never prescribed to? The first couple of such emails, I was checking my online bank account. No such charges were made. Nowadays,I just delete those emails.
Leo
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That happened here in Nashville. Two men robbed mail carrier at gun point.
Probably would be charged federally as a Hobbs Act robbery. That’s a long prison sentence for some mail….
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Never a problem with my personal checks.
I use checks, when I can avoid the additional fees incurred from electronic payments.
As an example, when I deal with places such as the Secretary of State.
There's really no such thing. "Permanent" just means not water soluble. It depends on how they are "washing" the check.
Thieves have been targeting Letter Carriers on the street. Not for their mail, but for their "Arrow Lock" Keys.
The perps have figured out that they can go on "collection" with the keys and empty street collection boxes as well as open apartment mailboxes at will.
This is probably the worst scenario for theft yet.
It was bound to happen eventually. I'm surprised it took the perpetrators this long to figure it out.
Pete
NO contractors (electrician, plumber, carpenter, etc. ) take any kind of electronic payment where I live. In fact, you can't even get car tags unless you pay by check. Guess we just have to live dangerously.
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Also, most contractors love cash and will often times discount fee accordingly. So if it’s something I can’t really use as a deduction, I’ll go that route.
I write very, very few checks anymore and for coins, I mostly use a wire.
Yes... More fear and paranoia over nothing.
I wouldn't say it's over "nothing".
The incidences of people fishing letters out of the blue mailboxes were severe enough that the USPS replaced hundreds of thousands of mailboxes with the new style that has no door to open to drop the letter into, and has little "teeth" inside the slot to prevent fishing letters out.
The issue with the stolen keys has been widely reported in the media in recent months.
Even the huge drive by blue USPS drop box outside of one of my local post offices is roped off . I asked why, they said theft. Now they want you to bring your outgoing mail inside.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
i prefer to pay the bills with a check. I use indelible ink on all my checks
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
I can't trust this analysis because nowhere did you identify even one thing you stated as a FACT
I still pay with checks. Perhaps I will dig out a bottle of India ink I have somewhere and employ a fountain pen. Good luck trying to wash out that sort of ink.
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Our local PO locks the blue drive thru mail drop boxes after dark due to repeated theft.
Company-wise we obviously still write checks but for me personally, it is becoming more seldom all the time.
Here's an interesting report about check use in the US from the Atlanta Federal Reserve:
https://www.atlantafed.org/-/media/documents/banking/consumer-payments/research-data-reports/2020/02/13/us-consumers-use-of-personal-checks-evidence-from-a-diary-survey/rdr2001.pdf#:~:text=The share of checks written by consumers has,to 7.1 billion, a drop of 63 percent.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
An inconvenience for sure, but I believe you are not liable if someone steals, washes your check and fraudulently deposits into another account. The Bank accepting the check is liable and hopefully they can trace back to the depositor - that's why all the 'know your client' data is collected. Professional crooks will have fictitious documents, etc opening the accounts but hopefully they will be caught because most crooks get greedy and stupid.