1848 Large Cent Die Crack Variety?

InGodWeTrustCoins

I've looked at pictures of every Newcomb variety (all 46) for this year and could not find one with any die crack like this. Is it just a planchet flaw? Or is this a variety that I missed? Thank you!

Walkerguy21D

Sorry, I don’t study nor have references for the late date cents.
However, to perhaps add some insight, my guess is that you have a very late or even terminal die state coin, and your reference may not show any with such an advanced progression.
And yes there is also a planchet flaw, to the right of the hair bun.
Paging @RLSnapper for assistance…..

lilolme

@InGodWeTrustCoins said:> I've looked at pictures of every Newcomb variety (all 46) for this year and could not find one with any die crack like this. Is it just a planchet flaw? Or is this a variety that I missed? Thank you!

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I was trying to look some information up on this and I see Walkerguy has posted what I was looking for.

I also don't know large cents and Newcomb but I found these two as an example. I am totally relying on pcgs and the other website for Newcomb number.

This is from DLHansen and N18. Note the die cracks.

https://www.pcgs.com/cert/18900246
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From this website another N18 (he states N18b) and no die cracks. I only copied the photo link and did not copy the picture into the post as I was not sure if okay.
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https://early-copper.com/1848.html
https://early-copper.com/coinpics/48n18b.jpg
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So with Morgan/Peace VAMs and Bust Half Overton, the varieties are numbers and may not include cracks for variety identification. These varieties can have a letter after them which identifies the die state of that variety (Note: some Overton sources are using a .1 or .2 ...after the Overton to identify die states). These die states are often identified by cracks (or other). So as stated by Walkerguy you may not be able to use a crack to identify a variety as for varieties you are looking for changes from die to die.

yosclimber

I think both the diagonal line and the curve below/right of the hair bun are lamination errors (planchet flaws).

lilolme

@yosclimber said:
I think both the diagonal line and the curve below/right of the hair bun are lamination errors (planchet flaws).

I had wondered about that. Mainly because when the long diagonal goes into the rim area (top and bottom) it kind of wonders/turns and seems a little 'flakey' . If so, then that would eliminate for variety ID. Either way if there is no late die state attributed example, then would need to use the known variety diagnostics.

RLSnapper

@Walkerguy21D I have spent the last half hour trying to figure out the variety to no avail. There is no repunching on the date so that narrows it down considerably. The reverse appears uncracked...which doesn't help much at all. I am not an expert on using DRN..date reference numbers to ID a coin but the 8 is positioned at 0 which narrows it down again. This leaves us the following candidates..13, 15, 29 and 34. No varieties have the obverse die crack....I am inclined to say it is a planchet flaw....a die crack as prominent as this would in all likelihood have been noted by Grellman. This is the best I could do.

lilolme

@RLSnapper Great narrowing it down to 4.

So I get some entertainment sometimes from trying to figure this type stuff out even though it is not something I collect or deal with. Since you narrowed it down to four varieties I thought I would find them in coinfacts and see if I could spot anything. I will say that these seem somewhat similar compared to some other series. But below are the coinfacts images for N13, N15, N29 and N34. After loading them, I then thought maybe I should have loaded the higher resolution ones. I used a lower graded one if available for some similarity of wear but unfortunately not many choices.

Here is what I see and you and others can agree or not or spot something else.

I focused on the date. I think N29 might be it.

OP coin

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N13 - The gap between the left sheriff on the 1 to the dentils and the 8 to dentils appears to be smaller (tricky due to wear on the OP but looks closer). The second 8, the right edge appears to line up between dentils where the OP is closer to centered (again this is subjective due to wear and fattening of letters and dentil wear). Note: the normal measuring stick of the straight edges of the 1 and 4 appear to line up to the OP.

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N15 - This date is higher relative to the bust. Less gap between top of 184.

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N29 - This one matches the best I think. Gap at top, position of numbers relative to dentils and gap at bottom.

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N34 - The 1 appears a little tilted to the left. Also it appears the bottom left sheriff of the one is close to dentil (this is a little tricky due to wear on OP but still looks closer)

ricko

Interesting thread on large cents... I have a couple, but never collected varieties. Cheers, RickO

RLSnapper

@lilolme Great job posting the examples. I agree with you N-29 is the most likely variety. Also notice how the spacing of the base of the second 8 relative to the dentils is a match. Also when you look at the relative rarity of the 4 varieties N-29 is R3- while the others are R4 and R5. I am 85% confident in this attribution.

InGodWeTrustCoins

You guys are awesome! Thank you very much and I learned quite a bit from this thread.