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Freddie vs Mike
olb31
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Freddie piling up the numbers
299 avg 2018 hits 309 hr 3447 tb 1104 rbi
mike stats below
301 avg 1623 hits 368 hr 3141 tb 940 rbi
a case can be made that freddie is pretty darn close to mike. card prices certainly don't represent just how close they really are.
Work hard and you will succeed!!
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Only one of the 2 guys has ever been caught LOOKING at a CALLED THIRD STRIKE a total of 12 (TWELVE!) times over one 14 game stretch, though, in which his team's record was 4-10. It takes a special skill to do that.
The other guy has a ring, but that's just attributable to luck, apparently.
Trout also has 206 SB, a .582 Slug, .994 OPS and a higher OBP
Freeman is a .512 Slug, .898 OPS and 74 SBs
Freeman is a very good player and could end up being a hall of fame player, but hes not on Trouts level. Trout could retire today and be in the HOF. That doesnt even get into the aspect of comparing a CFer to a 1st basemen which is really the important part.
didn't say freddie was better but if you look at their card prices, you would think that mike had much better stats than freddie.
freddie does seem more durable.
He does have much better stats than Freddie though and he does it as a CFer. Dont get me wrong I like Freddie and he could end up in the HOF, but Trout is already in elite company especially with his position. 20 something Hrs a year as a first basemen isnt something that really blows your socks off, the elite are hitting 30 and driving in 100+ pretty much every year.
Trouts numbers have also been hurt by injuries the last couple years. Even if you ignore positions Trouts prime blows Freddies out of the water.
right now i am betting on freddie and his low card prices. if he were a stock i would tell you to buy. mike would be a hold at a minimum.
I vote for Freddy Krueger over Michael Myers.
Steve
definitely funnier. michael looked confused with all his head turns.
Like discussed previously, card prices do not always go hand in hand with which player is better.
Trout card prices already have the 'all time great track' priced into them, so if he doesn't get healthy again his card prices will be hurt.
Freeman has never been considered an all time great, and as pointed out above, he is a first basemen and MLB history is filled with first basemen with great numbers(both rate and counting), so he will have a harder time in being in any discussion as an all time great(unless he sustains his elite hitting ability deep into his 30's)
However, Freeman is on track to 3,000 hits and playing for LA doesn't hurt either now and has been more noted for his consistency instead of greatness, so he could sneak up on some people if he stays a good hitter into his late 30's.
Whether Freeman is very good or great depends on how those are defined. I define him as an elite hitter in his generation.
Right now Freeman sits at 141 OPS+ through age 33. For comparison sake, Eddie Murray sat at 139 though age 33, George Brett 143, Thome 152, Miguel Cabrera 155, Bagwell 157, Pujols 165, Frank Thomas 169.
So he is most likely going to be on par historically with an Eddie Murray type, but Freeman still needs to keep being productive until age 40 to be there.
Like anything else, popularity plays almost as big a part with talent in regards to card prices. Murray had a negative media relationship, so that hurt his popularity. Murray got 3,000 and 500 so media couldn't spin that. Freeman has a little more positive relationship with media.
Of course, the popularity of the card set his best cards are in plays a huge role as well.
Then you have guys like Lance Berkman who had a 147 OPS+ through age 33.
Jury is still out, but Freeman is going to need something like 3,500 hits to really stand out above the first base crowd...OR several World Series wins with the Dodgers (in addition to 3,000 hits).
Always fun making plays. I enjoy hearing these types of plays on cards.
I am dodger fan and thoroughly love having him on the team. Outstanding sportmanship and seems like a all around great guy. 3500 hits sounds outlandish for anyone. I doubt anyone will ever challenge that number the rest of our lives and maybe more. I doubt he gets 500 hr or 3000 hits but he should be close 2850 and 450 hr's to go along with at a 300 avg. sounds doable.
As for first basemen. You are probably correct. A guy like Bill Buckner had a fabulous career. But one play in the WS damaged him (at least for card values). If Freeman can win another MVP and WS that be enough.
I don't think anyone will challenge that either, but taking his current full resume into account, he is going to need something like that to rise above the crowded ranks.
He is certainly tracking as a Hall of Famer, and that alone does bode well for his card values at least sustaining.
As for something to cause a worthwhile spike in his cards above where they already are? Going to need either another high peak and/or sustained above average ability into his early 40's.
2,900 hits and 440 HR will get him into the HALL OF FAME, but does that cause a huge spike in demand for his cards?
Being possibly the last member of the 3,000 hit club could be interesting though. I don't think he will be the last, but he could be the last for a while after.
If he becomes the beloved veteran/ambassador in the All Star game at age 40, has 3,200 hits in addition to high ranking sabermetric values(which he does and will), then you might be onto something. He needs to be viewed and appreciated higher than what his numbers are.
Certainly a buy at current prices.
Freeman has never really had those absolutely dominate years. I dont consider anything in the 2020 season to be legitimate. 60 games just insnt a season, its not even half a season. Weve seen guys get hot for a month or two and then they cool off significantly.
I like Freeman as a player. He reminds me a lot of Fred McGriff though. Very good player that should be in the HOF but will be largely forgotten once they retire. Any team improves with Freeman on it, but theres an overall lack of monster seasons and more of a quiet very good consistent production.
Neither player particularly promote themselves well, but MLB is very bad at promoting stars as well.
I dont think Freeman is as good as trout, but i do consider trout overrated. His cards are priced as though he is an inner circle HOFer, but his career thus far does not reflect that. He has wonderful rate stats, but for actual, on the field production, it is not there. at least at inner circle level. He has only played, what, 4 or 5 full seasons so far in his career? and he is 32. And those rate stats are leveling off already. If he were available to play more often, chances are those shiny percentages would have turned into actual on the field production, but, he is unable to get on the field enough.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
freddie is hot!!
I have to think that anyone who thinks that Freeman's stats are similar to Trout's or that Bill Buckner (1 All-Star appearance and 100 OPS+ at 1B, though a better fielder than his reputation) had a fabulous career doesn't understand baseball very well.
None of which is to say that Freeman isn't a very good, underrated player, Trout's cards are not too expensive, or Freeman (and Buckner's) cards are too cheap. Just that Trout is a lot better than Freeman and Baines, to pick one of hundreds of choices, was a lot better than Buckner.
Freeman making a run at MVP. Still six weeks to go and he is neck and neck with Acuna.
@olb31 have you picked up any Freeman cards since you posted?
Freddy ???
or
Michael ???
I gotta pick this guy...
while freddie is creepy, there was always a comedic side to him. Mr. Myers, not so much. just a relentless unstoppable monster.
Give me Michael Myers
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
yes i have. every refractor /25 i see. a couple of his older ones also, the 2011 heritage refractor/562, got a couple of those. i picked up 3 2010 bowman ones off comc for $20 a piece, two gold and one green.
no doubt the horror villain of all-time. the movie halloween, is awesome. when it came out, i couldn't get past the credits before i turned it off. i was 11.
Sweet. Do you have any big RC's? Good luck with the endeavor. I enjoy your thinking out loud on the under valued players.
of freeman. not really.
Go big. Get his best RC's.
he looks legit to me.
The Angels will once again miss the playoffs. This will be the 8th straight season of missing the playoffs, even though now 6 teams from each league get to go. Mike started in 2011, the Angels have been to the playoffs exactly once in the 13 seasons he's played with them. 3 out of the last 4 season trout has played half the season or much less.
The Dodgers will be going to the playoffs, i think for the 10th straight year. This will be Freddie's 10th time he will be in the playoffs since his career started. World series champ in 2021. It looks like he will finish in the top 2 in average and hits this year.
yeah, I dont forsee trout making it back this season. The latest news is that he is taking "dry swings"
similar thing happened a few years ago when he had the calf injury. the talk was he would be back before the end of the season. they kept pushing him back and back and eventually the season just ended.
we were told the hamate was an 8 week thing and would be pain tolerance. I questions Trouts grit. Is he the type of player who will not play unless he is 100%? He does not seem to have that extra gear to grind it out and play hurt. not injured, but hurt. it is a good thing he doesnt play in the NFL
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I think we should all just hold off on comparing trout to anyone until there’s a big enough sample size of games played for trout.
With Mikey playing 40 games a year and then packing it in to go watch the weather I just can’t get a vibe on if his good start is sustainable.
Freddie just plug him into the lineup and while big mike is riding pine with a boo boo on his little toe or whatever Freddie is bringing the numbers beast mode style day after day.
Looks like the troutster is probably quitting the injured reserve list to focus on designing golf courses with tiger anyway.
I believe you've been right there with me, as far as looking at Trouty with a skeptical eye for quite some time.
I've been a member here since 2017, and I've said from the get go that it was obvious Trouty had no heart, wasn't clutch, and is not, and would never be, a winner. The groans from the peanut gallery was/is always amusing, but no one can say that I haven't been right all along.
For as much flack as Jack Morris gets on this forum, at least he was ultra competitive and a winner. Perhaps if Trouty had played at some point with a gruff veteran pitcher like Morris that would have gotten all up in Trouty's ass every time he dogged it on shallow fly balls to center, the Angels would have won a few more games. He never dives. He just lets the balls drop in front of him. A more enthusiastic and competent centerfielder, and the pitching staff wouldn't have had to contend with so many extra runners on base, and the ones on base taking extra bases on Trouty's popgun arm.
I hope some team from an East Coast market trades for Trouty. Let the world see him choke all over himself on a nightly basis with game on the line, and he'll be exposed for the fraud that he is.
Yes, I have been very skeptical of Trout for quite awhile now. anytime a player gets called the greatest of his generation or an inner circle type player, my antenna goes up. I have long thought of him as a liability in the field (but the Angels will not move him like jeter and the yankees) and he has been getting the benefit of a positional adjustment in WAR calculations without actually earning that adjustment.
He has had people fawn over him for years and really has not actually produced amazing numbers other than BB totals. He has great rate stats, but when it comes to actual production on the field, he is not that amazing. What he is amazing at is drawing walks. he is really good at that.
I think that people defend him so vociferously because many have big investments in his cardboard. They dont want anyone chipping away at the trout veneer. I think at this point, we have already seen the best of Mike Trout. The decline seems to have started this season.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Hmm, Michael Myers and it's not even close. Interesting story, the mask that Michael wears was originally a William Shatner Captain Kirk mask, in 1978 when John Carpenter made the original Halloween, they took the Captain Kirk mask and dyed the hair dark and painted the face White and made some other adjustments to it. That mask is really what made the Michael Myers character so fascinating and iconic, it's an emotionless, empty, creepy looking face. Here's the story for anyone interested.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/william-shatner-capt-kirk-michael-myers-halloween-mask-joke-1235033482/amp/
With Strasburg getting all that money for doing nothing. Degrom too. Almost all of the Chicago White Sox, etc... The guys who don't play are irritating me more and more. Tim Anderson is hurt all the time and still takes maintenance days when he is healthy. Ridiculous.
You may be right about Trout not playing through anything. He may be soft.
I'm not going to defend him anymore. Not because of the 'no winning' because that is 100% on the stupidity of the Angels management. Their deadline trades this year exemplify how stupid they are.
As of now for me Trout is going into the category of the great six year player.
He said he is open to a trade, but no team will take on that salary for a guy who is soft and never plays.
I'm in. He is soft.
(I don't have cards of him. I don't do modern).
I would like to see how Trout would handle playing for a place like Boston. I wonder if he would wilt under the intensity of the media?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Theres no reason for him to come back for meaningless games when theyre officially eliminated already. Its honestly just dumb to play through an injury for nothing especially with Othani done for the year. Next year should be the concern, its actually better if they lose more at this point theyd get a better draft pick.
Wrist injuries take about a year to 18 months to fully get your power back. If they were going to the playoffs youd see them try and get him back on the field. No reason to risk him hurting it again putting next year in danger for nothing
All the hate on Trout for not being a "winner" and yet Ohtani just had arguably the greatest 3 year stretch in baseball history and led his team to zero playoff appearances, and zero winning seasons. Folks need to get over the idea that one baseball player can turn a terrible team into a playoff contender.
Trout screwed up by re-signing with the Angels. He should have become a Dodger or Yankee or Brave and then walked into the playoffs every year.
Regardless of what Count Dougie says, Trout is/was a generational talent who was wasted by the Angels. Sadly, he is now so injury prone he is basically useless as a player. I think Craig44 has been saying for years that Trout's body wouldn't hold up due to all the mass on his frame, looks like he hit the nail on the head.
Robb
Dodger Insider
@DodgerInsider
·
10h
Freddie Freeman is the second Dodger ever with at least 200 hits, 100 RBI, 20 home runs and 20 stolen bases in the same season. The last was Babe Herman in 1929.
Freddie finished with a great season. less than 900 to go before 3000 hits. will he make it??
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
it will be a close call. If he stays healthy he should have 3 year good years in LA (34,35,36 years old). If he gets to 2700 hits by the then, I think he gets the 3000. So he would need about 193 hits per year the next three. The last 2 he had 199 and currently 207.
My prediction would be he finishes his career right at 3000 hits, about 450 HR's, avg .299. Probably over 600 doubles or right at it.
man, what great career numbers those would be.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Maybe he will get one more super year within his decline, a bump up if you will. I can't recall other players in the same situation as Trout, more knowledgeable than I can maybe help me out. But I believe there were a few. Memory fails right now.