Question: How do MS60, 61, and 62 coins happen?
WingedLiberty1957
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I saw this coin yesterday … MS62BN ... and it got me to wondering. How does MS62BN … or 61 … or 60 … happen? I mean MS means mint state, with no circulation wear. So is this how this coin looked when it was first struck in 1909? There is definitely something wrong with this one, but I cant put my finger on it, clearly it doesn't look very good. Can't blame weak strike as I've seen weakly struck coins get MS64 and higher grades. I mean, circulation wear and tear I get … but how does mint state wear and tear happen while keeping a coin Mint State.
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Based on the images provided, the eyebrow, cheek and jaw all look to have very noticeable rub on this coin so I'm not sure why it's MS- anything.
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No serious field or image damage... A couple of minor rim dings....Perhaps what looks like rub in the pictures, is different in hand. Cheers, RickO
Anyone ever see an MS60 slabbed coin. Some of them look very rough.
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Surface preservation is my Readers' Digest condensed answer- followed by cabinet friction. I don't see 62 as unreasonable for this coin
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I always thought it was ‘wear’ from moving and storing the coins i.e. ‘bag marks.’ for 60-62 coins. I have a 62 that if the bag mark weren’t there, would be a high MS. The luster is excellent but it really took some hits while in that bag.
I know you’re using this coin as more of an example. Looking at most from that that grade range finds AU58 graded coins looking much better. A lot of Morgan’s graded 60 and 61 look chewed up compared to those graded AU58. Maybe a bit of an over exaggeration, but there is a definite drop off in eye appeal with these low, low MS graded coins.
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A true AU58 that was a lightly circulated GEM is usually nicer than the MS61 & 62's, except I see many AU58's on EBAY (at least for Morgans) that probably should be a 55. In that case I'll take a conservatively graded 62 with full luster most of the time. For me luster trumps bagginess as long as not deep & long scrapes on focal area.
Coins and medals could get hairlines from storage in the old time velvet lined coin cabinets and cases. Velvet might seem soft, but it can mark coinage metals to a degree than an experienced grader will spot it.
When you pull the drawers in and out, the coins slide. Do that for years, and you have “cabinet friction.”
Store the coin on one side for years, and each will tone differently.
I know what the OP means.
I'm even a bit more perplexed on how a proof coin- minted for the collector- ends up as a PR60?
peacockcoins
Bag marks and precirculation dings can bring a 67 to a 63.
Still it was not considered circulated.
Always wanted to see an AU59
Market grading of a slider in my opinion.
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Someone breaks it out of the mint holder, and the coin gets messed up. It’s easy to do with a Proof coin because it is delicate. All you need to do is store it in anything but the best quality album.
The other question is, why did someone waste their money and send this to a TPG?
The MS60-62 grade was easily achieved for Morgans. Stick 1,000 in a thick cloth bag weighing over 60 lbs and throw that bag around several times moving to its final bank destination or collectors vault and I'd guess 60% get nicked up pretty good. Figure maybe 10% or less are MS66 & higher.
You should see my proof commemorative with a reeding hit.
It was in original mint packaging.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
My only MS60 is this 21 peace. I really like it and it looks much nicer than my pic suggests for an ms60.
This.
Plenty of slabbed MS62 coins are coins that are technically AU58 due to wear but are assigned 62 or even 63 due to eye appeal and the fact that they sell for MS money.
Grading these days is largely a valuation exercise. If you want an even more blatant example, take a look at some of the ultra rarities - you will see problem coins in straight graded holders and coins ‘overgraded’ by 2-3 points if judged by technical merits. It’s important that collectors understand this.
For anyone looking to learn more, consider signing up for the ANA’s grading course - a large portion of time is spent on this topic.
Who are the lucky recipients of these lowest grades?
From PCGS coinfacts.....
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
My 62:
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
Not just the best MS62BN I own, but my favorite MS62 coin I've ever had in my collection.
Bought this one raw in 1992 at my LCS. This is one coin that I will probably never part with.
Slabbed coins tend to sell better when someone thinks they'll upgrade. Damn the torpedos!
Leo
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That 1926 gold should have gotten a couple of gold cac stickers.
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Bought and sold this one years ago.
It's probably hairlined from a light cleaning which is not showing up in the pics.
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The only MS61 graded coin I own. Bought this raw, and these typically are found in the lower grade range. Still, quite rare and this example is Vam B1 H-10 Scarface at the final die state.
With the millions of coins graded by the top 3 TPG's, there will always be outliers in all grades, ugly over-graded MS64's & AU58's, and nice ultra-conservative, under-graded MS61/62's. With years of experience & learning from others including folks on this site, and some patience, collectors can pick up some some great coins & deals in any grade and avoid the mistakes. I wish I could buy all gems, but that is not possible. As noted hundreds of times before by others, buy the coin & not the holder. There are no absolutes.
I agree with you but add "Just think what happens when they stack those bags in the vault. The ones on the bottom get extra weight vs on top."
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And every bag that gets stacked/thrown on top scuffs up the ones on the bottom a little more. Sometimes I think what might look like small circulation scuff could just be bag scratches on those facing the mint bag & getting pounded by all the movement. Agree not pretty but could still be a true UNC.