Any thoughts on trying to correlate your scoring system to the marketplace? Toned coins are difficult to value and being able to say a particular coin is in line with real transactions in a price range may be helpful. One problem with this would be that the number of data points for recent, verifiable transactions for a particular date and type is much lower than the number of toned coin pictures available.
@messydesk said:
Any thoughts on trying to correlate your scoring system to the marketplace? Toned coins are difficult to value and being able to say a particular coin is in line with real transactions in a price range may be helpful. One problem with this would be that the number of data points for recent, verifiable transactions for a particular date and type is much lower than the number of toned coin pictures available.
So much of the value is associated with the type of toning, specific colors, amount of coverage, how it plays with the luster (that True Views frequently do not capture due to the hot lights) and how many examples of nice toners exist for a particular date/mm...not to mention the demand at any given moment between bidders, not to mention the grade. Way too many variables in my opinion.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
@keyman64 said:
So much of the value is associated with the type of toning, specific colors, amount of coverage, how it plays with the luster (that True Views frequently do not capture due to the hot lights) and how many examples of nice toners exist for a particular date/mm...not to mention the demand at any given moment between bidders, not to mention the grade. Way too many variables in my opinion.
Lots of factors for sure. My initial goal was just to quantify toning, and then slowly chip away at the rest of the mysteries involved with coin pricing and eye appeal. Uphill battle but having fun taking it on.
@Rexford said:
One potential issue could be that if the program is pulling its AT/NT determination from graded coins, it relies on coins graded as NT by PCGS actually being NT and those graded as AT actually being AT. There are undoubtedly many silver eagles in straight-graded PCGS holders that are AT, for instance. However, it seems to be doing a pretty good job.
I would be interested to see the results on AT coins with less intense colors.
Here are these results. I actually believe that the ASE is naturally toned. It was placed in one of those crinkle-wrapper shipping containers for quite some time. I've handled and seen these straight grade. The others, not so hot.
@Rexford said: @treybenedict Would you be able to run the group I posted earlier when you get the chance? They’re AT and would be a good test.
Furthermore, I think it's interesting to look at the graphs for AT/QC coins versus NT. They are drastically different and usually display a weird color mush. This is the toning progression happening pixel by pixel. The ASE forms the "E" which we talked about previous in the forum posts.
Curious to see how my other dimes do. Also wondering if the new 46 S pic will register differently. I see a new too much Orange detected on @rexford coins, so now Im wondering how my 48 D will turn out. It looks NT to me , but is extremely orange.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
@gumby1234 said:
Curious to see how my other dimes do. Also wondering if the new 46 S pic will register differently. I see a new too much Orange detected on @rexford coins, so now Im wondering how my 48 D will turn out. It looks NT to me , but is extremely orange.
This only gets triggered when specific colors are detected. It has been implemented for a couple of days.
@david3142 said:
Alright, let’s see if we can break the scale:
Totally Nuclear! Amazing coin. I think this is the highest rating so far in the thread for a US coin. There was a proof earlier that received a 69, and the example Morgan rated 70. Nonetheless, stellar!
@david3142 said:
Alright, let’s see if we can break the scale:
Totally Nuclear! Amazing coin. I think this is the highest rating so far in the thread for a US coin. There was a proof earlier that received a 69, and the example Morgan rated 70. Nonetheless, stellar!
So this is a naturally toned coin?
According to the analysis yes. It seems on par with ASE’s from that era. I’ve had a couple like that. Cardboard, Velvet etc can make it tone wildly on both sides.
I understand somewhat, and the kid inside me leads me with many questions.
Here's one that has been on my mind as it's crucial in my research.
"Can this app see progression or show stability over time in a proper container ?"
Reason being is, stability is a very crucial quest.
No hurry as it seems your following is at it's peak.
I'm easy .
TKS
@Elcontador said:
I like the concept, Trey. Keep at it. Am not quite sure how this would fit in between the TPGs and CAC, but I like the idea of an algorithm comparing color progression to that of a person.
I'm just throwing this out there, because if it's on my mind too long, I want it deleted.
"Could this be the next chapter in a book, with CAC being the previous chapter ?
Holy algorithm, Bubba !!!!!!!!!
What a quawinkeedink. (coincidence)
Wow, just found this cool thread! And I actually own that end roll toned 1884-O Morgan in the original post. When you get a chance, can you run a scan on my icon coin below? I have plenty of other toners if you want to run your program on them.
@ElmerFusterpuck said:
Wow, just found this cool thread! And I actually own that end roll toned 1884-O Morgan in the original post. When you get a chance, can you run a scan on my icon coin below? I have plenty of other toners if you want to run your program on them.
Awesome! That 84-O is the highest-scored coin to date. The colors are amazing.
I'll run this for you after we deploy our public preview website. ~1 day ish from now.
No offense but I’ll trust my eye over this algorithm all day long. I like the concept of computer aided coin grading for wear and pmd but not this concept.
@keyman64 said:
I’m anxious to see a web version or app version to play with so we don’t have to bug Trey.
Working on this today/tmr so we don't have to flood the thread anymore. Pausing all submissions until then, but keep the chats coming
No worries,
Your not on a clock here. I am kindda in that spot, I have to post this tonight according to google. My files turn into pumpkins
after 24 hours. I love it because I always carry a stick.
No tech. worries. When you can. I'm trying something which "could" help both of us.
This coin was found in pocket change. I think the large spot on the reverse is the suspect (?) being solid, compared to the obverse pastel style of color. I have a few with that exact mix. (Color).
In the byepolar book it's 320 I think...? maybe 420 ?...anyway I would like to compare both mix's.
This will be the first of three coins.
No hurry, Bubba
Cool !
@keyman64 said:
I’m anxious to see a web version or app version to play with so we don’t have to bug Trey.
Working on this today/tmr so we don't have to flood the thread anymore. Pausing all submissions until then, but keep the chats coming
No worries,
Your not on a clock here. I am kindda in that spot, I have to post this tonight according to google. My files turn into pumpkins
after 24 hours. I love it because I always carry a stick.
No tech. worries. When you can. I'm trying something which "could" help both of us.
This coin was found in pocket change. I think the large spot on the reverse is the suspect (?) being solid, compared to the obverse pastel style of color. I have a few with that exact mix. (Color).
In the byepolar book it's 320 I think...? maybe 420 ?...anyway I would like to compare both mix's.
This will be the first of three coins.
No hurry, Bubba
Cool !
This is likely corrosion rather than toning. I'm sure a version of this CV script can be used to decipher "problem coins" as well.
Demo website and a special surprise coming early next week. I wanted to save the demo website in conjunction with another release. Some already may have heard what is coming soon Building until then so I'll be a bit quiet.
@neildrobertson said:
This one got flagged as Questionable Color on my most recent sub. I wonder what your screening tool thinks.
Did this one real quick because the graph interested me. Notice how it is atypical from others in the thread (no color progression on HSV). Agree with our hosts here.
I think this is interesting work but would expect it to meet quite a bit of resistance. The topic of tone, AT, QC, and NT is very subjective and when the results from this system start to question the color I'd foresee collectors being quite upset. Some in this thread have already expressed as much.
@Maywood said:
I think this is interesting work but would expect it to meet quite a bit of resistance. The topic of tone, AT, QC, and NT is very subjective and when the results from this system start to question the color I'd foresee collectors being quite upset. Some in this thread have already expressed as much.
Resistance will always be met when change is in view. An uphill battle I am willing to tackle for transparency of the collector
Comments
Any thoughts on trying to correlate your scoring system to the marketplace? Toned coins are difficult to value and being able to say a particular coin is in line with real transactions in a price range may be helpful. One problem with this would be that the number of data points for recent, verifiable transactions for a particular date and type is much lower than the number of toned coin pictures available.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Coming soon
When you get around to doing nickels let me know😉
So much of the value is associated with the type of toning, specific colors, amount of coverage, how it plays with the luster (that True Views frequently do not capture due to the hot lights) and how many examples of nice toners exist for a particular date/mm...not to mention the demand at any given moment between bidders, not to mention the grade. Way too many variables in my opinion.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Lots of factors for sure. My initial goal was just to quantify toning, and then slowly chip away at the rest of the mysteries involved with coin pricing and eye appeal. Uphill battle but having fun taking it on.
@treybenedict Would you be able to run the group I posted earlier when you get the chance? They’re AT and would be a good test.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
Here are these results. I actually believe that the ASE is naturally toned. It was placed in one of those crinkle-wrapper shipping containers for quite some time. I've handled and seen these straight grade. The others, not so hot.
Furthermore, I think it's interesting to look at the graphs for AT/QC coins versus NT. They are drastically different and usually display a weird color mush. This is the toning progression happening pixel by pixel. The ASE forms the "E" which we talked about previous in the forum posts.
@Rexford the ASE looks NT to me. It looks like it was stored inside a corrugated cardboard self sealing package.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Curious to see how my other dimes do. Also wondering if the new 46 S pic will register differently. I see a new too much Orange detected on @rexford coins, so now Im wondering how my 48 D will turn out. It looks NT to me , but is extremely orange.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
This only gets triggered when specific colors are detected. It has been implemented for a couple of days.
I think the scale should work fairly well. I ran a similarly toned buff and it came out in the 60’s range.
I’ll run these in the morning!
So this is a naturally toned coin?
According to the analysis yes. It seems on par with ASE’s from that era. I’ve had a couple like that. Cardboard, Velvet etc can make it tone wildly on both sides.
I understand somewhat, and the kid inside me leads me with many questions.
Here's one that has been on my mind as it's crucial in my research.
"Can this app see progression or show stability over time in a proper container ?"
Reason being is, stability is a very crucial quest.
No hurry as it seems your following is at it's peak.
I'm easy .
TKS
I'm just throwing this out there, because if it's on my mind too long, I want it deleted.
"Could this be the next chapter in a book, with CAC being the previous chapter ?
Holy algorithm, Bubba !!!!!!!!!
What a quawinkeedink. (coincidence)
Looks like we wore Trey out.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Good morning. I’m on PST, we also worked the weekend here in Berkeley. There’s a couple more I forgot to do and will have them up today likely.
I'm on the east coast. Been up for 8 hours already.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
I’m anxious to see a web version or app version to play with so we don’t have to bug Trey.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Interesting thread and topic.
Here are more coins for you to work your magic on.
Working on this today/tmr so we don't have to flood the thread anymore. Pausing all submissions until then, but keep the chats coming
Wow, just found this cool thread! And I actually own that end roll toned 1884-O Morgan in the original post. When you get a chance, can you run a scan on my icon coin below? I have plenty of other toners if you want to run your program on them.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Awesome! That 84-O is the highest-scored coin to date. The colors are amazing.
I'll run this for you after we deploy our public preview website. ~1 day ish from now.
Request: Can the community post some Rainbow Toned Pre-33 Gold?
Training the model to be adaptive to gold coins as well and want to test.
I don't have any gold. I don't think I have ever seen rainbow toned gold coins before.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Not even close to rainbow but it’s got some gold discoloration if you want to run it.
No offense but I’ll trust my eye over this algorithm all day long. I like the concept of computer aided coin grading for wear and pmd but not this concept.
@chesterb His program seems to be working very well.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
No worries,
Your not on a clock here. I am kindda in that spot, I have to post this tonight according to google. My files turn into pumpkins
after 24 hours. I love it because I always carry a stick.
No tech. worries. When you can. I'm trying something which "could" help both of us.
This coin was found in pocket change. I think the large spot on the reverse is the suspect (?) being solid, compared to the obverse pastel style of color. I have a few with that exact mix. (Color).
In the byepolar book it's 320 I think...? maybe 420 ?...anyway I would like to compare both mix's.
This will be the first of three coins.
No hurry, Bubba
Cool !
Wonder what this would get on the BW scale? Probably on the edge of RickO approved
.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
This is likely corrosion rather than toning. I'm sure a version of this CV script can be used to decipher "problem coins" as well.
Also, update for everyone:
Demo website and a special surprise coming early next week. I wanted to save the demo website in conjunction with another release. Some already may have heard what is coming soon
Building until then so I'll be a bit quiet.
If you feeling like running the dimes i posted that would be great. Dying to see how the 62, and 55 S do. Also the 48 D because it is so orange.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
This one got flagged as Questionable Color on my most recent sub. I wonder what your screening tool thinks.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Did this one real quick because the graph interested me. Notice how it is atypical from others in the thread (no color progression on HSV). Agree with our hosts here.
Coin #2 of 3, might fit the same theory, but here she is.
.
Green Eye Lady....
.
Enhanced photos.
Could easily be PVC again.
Was the coin stored in a soft flip?
If your asking me ? Found in Pocket change as is.
Go figure ?
.
CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Super nice. Added to the training set. Still working away hard over here.
E for Excellent.
Yes I love the E
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
This is a bit like a histogram color breakout in photography applied to coins.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I think this is interesting work but would expect it to meet quite a bit of resistance. The topic of tone, AT, QC, and NT is very subjective and when the results from this system start to question the color I'd foresee collectors being quite upset. Some in this thread have already expressed as much.
Resistance will always be met when change is in view. An uphill battle I am willing to tackle for transparency of the collector
I noticed that now there is orange in the RGB
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Does the orange change the values of any of the coin previously run thru?
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM