Unfortunate "Did Not Cross" so the hunt continues
Rodebaugh
Posts: 304 ✭✭✭
The last coin needed to finish up my VF25-XF45 PCGS $5 Charlotte set did not cross. Nothing is ever a sure thing as opinions vary but I felt confident that this would be a more joyous post when filling out my submittal paperwork 6 weeks ago. Well darn, the hunt continues. I'll file this white slab away into my extras box and keep an eye out for a wobbly table that needs leveled.
16
Comments
Looks complete to me.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Question. Did you set a minimum grade?
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
That looks like a super nice collection!
Re the last coin: DARN! That seems super frustrating. I know that there are collectors who think the fun is in the chase, but personally I'd much sooner eat my dinner than chase it.
These are NGC pictures of your coin. IMO you’re lucky it straight graded.
Why do you think he (or whoever submitted the coin) is lucky that it straight-graded? Based on the images, it looks quite nice and a details grade wouldn’t have crossed my mind.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
What reservations do you have that could/should warrant a details designation?
I always welcome opinions
Normally I do not with my crossovers. However, for this submission I did. I was not willing to see this example loose a grade.
Here’s another coin graded 40 by PCGS. The surfaces of the OP coin just looked tooled or messed with. Like it was a pocket piece that also had a set of keys next to it. To me it sticks out like a sore thumb in your nice set of coins.
Crossovers are tough. Even with a CAC sticker they didn't go for it? Interesting and most unfortunate. Enjoy the hunt!
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
@1madman said: "Here’s another coin graded 40 by PCGS. The surfaces of the OP coin just looked tooled or messed with. Like it was a pocket piece that also had a set of keys next to it. To me it sticks out like a sore thumb in your nice set of coins."
The coin you posted is not a Charlotte Mint coin.
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That is a great looking Philadelphia half eagle that I could easily see as a XF40. I scaled my Charlotte coin down to an approximate size of the posted Philly coin to get a more apples to apples look using the available NGC certification photos. There is more meat on the P coin for sure. I have noticed over the course of collecting and researching Charlotte coinage that coins from this branch mint tend to be of lesser planchet quality, strike, and often present more abraded. That is somewhat of the alure that has drawn me to pursue this short set.
Close examination of coinfacts confirms my suspicions as Doug Winter writes:
SURFACES: There are only a few 1857-C half eagles that do not show very heavily abraded fields. This appears to be an issue that was treated roughly; the typical 1857-C has deep, detracting marks on both the obverse and the reverse. Any piece that has clean, unmarked surfaces is very rare and should command a strong premium.
Strike quality of this coin may be of some concern as well. Reading further into Doug Winter's 1857-C coinfacts synopsis:
SRIKE: The obverse has a good overall strike but always has some weakness on the curls below BERT in LIBERTY and on the curl beneath the ear. The rest of the hair detail is very strong. The stars are mostly sharp with many having full radial lines. The denticles are sharp as well. The reverse is usually weak on the eagle’s neck and the horizontal lines in the shield tend not to show full definition. The rest of the reverse is generally sharp with strong feathers and claws. On a few coins, I have seen weakness on the eagle’s right leg and claw.
Mr Winter has published no literary analysis of the Philadelphia coinage of this year that I can find and I dare not personally speculate on strike quality or surface preservation frequencies for Philadelphia issues. I know nothing of that series.
Thanks for the response and kind words about my set.
I think it's a nice original coin regardless of grade. It probably isn't a 40 though.
You can’t compare a Charlotte to a Philadelphia. Like apples and oranges.
that is a very nice group
Awesome set, congrats! Echoing Tramp, they must have missed the sticker.
Echoing Tramp, they must have missed the sticker.
They didn't miss the CAC sticker. They just felt that CAC was wrong.
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Congrats on completing a date-set of Charlotte Half Eagles! That’s a notable accomplishment and you did well with keeping the group within a consistent range of grades.
My observations on the ‘57-C:
I’m not surprised to see it in an NGC-40 holder.
I am surprised it CAC’d, based on the images. It looks a little chewed up with several, albeit mostly minor rim cuts that are somewhat distracting. Yes, C & D mint gold receives an extra level of flex compared to say, Philly coins within the grading realm, but this is not an XF-40 “A or B” coin, in my opinion.
I would be surprised, although not a jaw-dropper, to see it in a PCGS-40 holder. I think if you did a min-grade submission at VF-30, it would straight- grade.
It looks like a set I would really enjoy. As for having them all in the same company’s holder, that will never happen with me. I have only intentionally done that once. I was so close to have a set of the Classic Head $2.50 gold coins in PCGS that I decided to finish the set in that holder.
I agree that if this coin were to numerically grade, 30 is appropriate. If it were mine, I would probably send it to cac grading and get them to put it in a 40 holder, and sell it. There’s gotta be a nicer example out there in your grade range for the set (pop 76 graded pcgs coins from vf25-xf45).
Charlotte gold can be tough to find in better grades.... Many collectors are just happy to have the C mint mark....Cheers, RickO
Nice to see your post and thanks for sharing the Charlotte Gold set with everyone.
I would have thought the 1857-c would cross with the CAC green sticker and all….
It's all about what the people want...
Agreed this is my assumption as well.
"Who Watches the WATCHERS?" You need THREE parties to tell ya the grade? WOW! I know that the bottom line is that they wanted it in PCGS plastic for a registry set......
Thanks Luke, I for sure read the forums most every work day between patients but rarely post/participate. Glad to see you still entrenched into the hobby as well.
This coin will likely settle into my second set with the other coins culled from upgrades. At the VF-XF level I'm turning into the Hobo Hanson of Charlotte gold with these extras.
Many issues of Charlotte gold coins were poorly made. Circulation only made the problem worse. It’s easiler to get Dahlonega gold in attractive, better grades than Charlotte gold.
Why not let it go into a PCGS VF-20 or 25 holder, where it belongs, and be done with it? A number of your other coins are in VF holders. You can take great pride in having finished a very difficult set, but the grades are never going to get you at the top of the heap.
So far as comparing a Philadelphia Mint $5 gold in EF-40 with the OP coin, there is no comparison. The Philadelphia coins were better made. If you saw the Charlotte coin on the day it dropped from the dies, it probably started its existence as an MS-62 or 63. When it comes to Charlotte gold, grading by surfaces is often necessary and tricky.
There should be some grading consistency between a P mint and a C mint. If the OP coin was a P mint, would it have graded a 40 anywhere? I understand certain years at certain mints had quality control issues, but the grading companies need to have somewhat close reasonable standards. If Bill Jones thinks this C mint coin is a vf20-25, that’s a significant difference from the P mint 40 I posted. PCGS appeared to have standards for this coin, NGC and CAC did not. Can’t just hand out elevated grades on coins because it’s the nicest you’ve seen in a while in the grading room.
There’s a difference in grading starting from 1 up to 70, versus 70 down to 1. Pcgs started from 1, NGC started from 70.
You can chase holders or you can chase coins. Is prestige really worth it?
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
You could just be happy with what you have and move on to quarter Eagles and dollars from Charlotte.
Despite what you wrote, NGC and CAC have standards, just as PCGS does. In this case, they differed. That doesn’t mean it was fair to say “Can’t just hand out elevated grades on coins because it’s the nicest you’ve seen in a while in the grading room.” They’ve earned a lot more credit than that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld
Hey Mark - you're approaching the magic 10K post count. Time for a giveaway!
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For many years I've been collecting coins in PCGS holders, and mostly coins with the PCGS/green sticker combination. They do tend to be easier to sell when it's time. I see coins that I like more frequently in PCGS holders, but to be truthful, mostly I've collected with the PCGS registry in mind. "Competing" in the registry isn't even slightly important to me at this point, and soon we'll have a third viable top-tier slab option.
All of this to say..... I don't see anything wrong with the collection the way it is.
That's what I would do.
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