The Joy of Varieties with a focus on lesser known minor varieties

Aspie_Rocco

Variety coins are my passion in this hobby.

Varieties is in reference to Die Varieties such as doubled dies, RPM re-punched mint mark, OMM over mint mark, as well as die design varieties like the re-engraved proof dies found in a few denominations from the 1930s-1950s.

Most “minor varieties” can be found for normal coin prices and occasionally some of these varieties are added to the Cherry Pickers Guide. This is where I have a lot of fun in the hobby as a cherry picker.

I will post mostly minor varieties in this thread with photos. If you want additional information or diagnostics/die markers let me know.

I will start with Nickels in 38 and 39

1938 Proof RED 005
This one has lettering details enhance in a different way than the FS401 or 403. The 005 has a curved detail in the lower B of Liberty
http://varietyvista.com/04a JN DD Vol 1/DDO Detail Pages/1938PRED005.htm

1938-D DDO-001, 1-O-V-CW
I call this one the Slasher or Slash R for the die gouge through liberty.
http://varietyvista.com/04a JN DD Vol 1/DDO Detail Pages/1938DDDO001.htm

1939 DDR-003, 3-R-VI
Info from Variety Vista http://varietyvista.com/04a JN DD Vol 1/DDR Detail Pages/1939PDDR003.htm

1939 proof nickels have a few different re-engraved ribbon details. There are at least 5 distinctly different RED details although only two are listed currently on VV http://varietyvista.com/04a JN DD Vol 1/REDs 1939.htm

There are at least two different REDs for 1939 proofs with reverse of 1940. Unfortunately I only have one for photos.

To be continued
Thank you for reading.

OAKSTAR

I like your passion for varieties. It takes patience, tenacity and commitment! 👍🏻 👍🏻

Have you discovered any new varieties?

OAKSTAR

This came to mind when I saw your thread. Have you found any of these?

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/736180/presidential-dollar-varieties#latest

may

Sometimes I find small varieties on my coins, mainly little stuff like little die cracks. Sometimes, I find something nice.

Die crack from Monticello to “OF”

ricko

@Aspie_Rocco ... Thank you for the pictures and descriptors... One question - the nickels had a descriptor RED... is that 'Reverse Die'? Or Re-Engraved Die?? Thanks, Cheers, RickO

Aspie_Rocco

@ricko said:
@Aspie_Rocco ... Thank you for the pictures and descriptors... One question - the nickels had a descriptor RED... is that 'Reverse Die'? Or Re-Engraved Die?? Thanks, Cheers, RickO

That is a great question Ricko. I believe RED is Re-Engraved Design, or Re-Engraved Die. On Variety Vista the page that has information on REDs (as called on V.V.) is the Design Varieties page. RED is the term used there.
Over at NGC they refer to them as “ReCut Ribbon FS-###” however, on most of these varieties have more than just the ribbon area enhanced or recut.

@OAKSTAR said:
I like your passion for varieties. It takes patience, tenacity and commitment! 👍🏻 👍🏻

Have you discovered any new varieties?

When the last Volume 1 Cherry Pickers Guide was printed, I did a lot of research and found several re engraved proof varieties that have-had not been described anywhere. I posted my findings here, but never paid to have my coins examined or to have my name listed for discovery, so I got no credit. Some of the years I found previously unpublished varieties for Nickels;
1938, 1939, 1940, 1942 type 2, 1952, 1953, 1954. I also found re engraved design details on some 1939 proof quarters.

There are re engraved proof varieties in the Lincoln, Jefferson, Washington, and Franklin series’. I have not yet heard of or seen a Roosevelt RED.

OAKSTAR

@Aspie_Rocco- Excellent!! 👍🏻 👍🏻

Manifest_Destiny

Not a Jeff of course but in my field of Seated Quarters I think the most underrated variety that no one recognizes is the 1876-cc reverse of 73. It's the exact same reverse as the 1873-cc no arrows (5 known) and the only other use of that reverse, making it possible to complete a Carson City reverse die collection, which I don't think anyone has ever done. It's easily recognizable because the first C is to the left of the arrow.

Aspie_Rocco

1940 DDR-004, 4-R-II-C
http://varietyvista.com/04a JN DD Vol 1/DDR Detail Pages/1940PDDR004.htm

1942-D RPM-003
http://varietyvista.com/05 JN RPMs/1942DRPM003.htm

1942-D DDR-002, 2-R-II-C+VI
http://varietyvista.com/04a JN DD Vol 1/DDR Detail Pages/1942DDDR002.htm

emeraldATV

stippling
noun
the art or process of drawing, painting, or engraving using numerous small dots or specks.
"the miniaturist's use of stippling"
The tool used is a staple in a pressman's tool box
This is the term used when the plate on a printing press starts to show wear in a small area.
The plate must remain on press and only attempted as a first response with an ok by the boss.
It cant hurt because if the attempt failed, just fix it and burn another plate, which could take a long time.
Just FYI..........Lunch !

daltex

Perhaps slightly off topic:

Would it be possible for an ultimate cherrypicker to take an extremely common coin, to pick almost as out of a hat, a 1985-D Jefferson, and acquire one coin from every die pair, or are most of the dies similar enough not to be able to tell?

124Spider

Cool coins, and great dedication!

I like die varieties, also. But, with the attention span of an infant, I have to be able to see the oddity without use of an electron microscope. But I really think it's cool that some of you delve into the more obscure ones!

This is one of my favorite obscure ones in my collection (both a doubled die and a RPM):

johnny9434

A job well done 👍

Aspie_Rocco

@daltex said:
Perhaps slightly off topic:

Would it be possible for an ultimate cherrypicker to take an extremely common coin, to pick almost as out of a hat, a 1985-D Jefferson, and acquire one coin from every die pair, or are most of the dies similar enough not to be able to tell?

Interesting question, I suppose it is possible. First of all without some type of die marker/scratch/gouge/imperfection to identify individual dies, I do not see how a collector could Differentiate between dies or die pairs. Especially with early die stages. As time and wear occur on the dies, it would theoretically be easier to identify individual dies based on die markers/scratch/gouges or die polish marks-lines

From basic information research I have found a nickel die lasts approximately 200,000 strikes. In 1985 Denver they minted upwards of 459,000,000 nickels.
Quick math shows about 2,295 dies at 200k per die. Even if dies last 500k strikes
It would take about 918 dies to complete the run.
That would be a large collection of die types.

I believe The large quantity of dies used in nearly any production run is the driving force as to why an individual die variety coin has inflated value compared to a normal coin.

If you did want to try to collect a quantity of different die strikes it would probably be a LOT easier to start with a year that has a very low mintage like nickels 39 d, 42 d, 50 d, and/or an early proof year 1938-1942

daltex

@Aspie_Rocco said:

@daltex said:
Perhaps slightly off topic:

Would it be possible for an ultimate cherrypicker to take an extremely common coin, to pick almost as out of a hat, a 1985-D Jefferson, and acquire one coin from every die pair, or are most of the dies similar enough not to be able to tell?

Interesting question, I suppose it is possible. First of all without some type of die marker/scratch/gouge/imperfection to identify individual dies, I do not see how a collector could Differentiate between dies or die pairs. Especially with early die stages. As time and wear occur on the dies, it would theoretically be easier to identify individual dies based on die markers/scratch/gouges or die polish marks-lines

From basic information research I have found a nickel die lasts approximately 200,000 strikes. In 1985 Denver they minted upwards of 459,000,000 nickels.
Quick math shows about 2,295 dies at 200k per die. Even if dies last 500k strikes
It would take about 918 dies to complete the run.
That would be a large collection of die types.

I believe The large quantity of dies used in nearly any production run is the driving force as to why an individual die variety coin has inflated value compared to a normal coin.

If you did want to try to collect a quantity of different die strikes it would probably be a LOT easier to start with a year that has a very low mintage like nickels 39 d, 42 d, 50 d, and/or an early proof year 1938-1942

Well yes, of course, easier, but can you imagine the thrill of hunting down 2500 DIFFERENT 1985-D Jeffersons which would cost between, say, $5 and $20 each? I mean we live in a world where someone with a fair amount of money, not even among the super rich, could go online and complete a Lincoln or Morgan set in a single afternoon. My hypothetical would take years and require looking closely at every '85-D you could get your hands on, and a lot of self-education.

With fewer than 500 (all dies) graded by PCGS, the hunt would be amazing, though, alas, my eyes are no longer good enough,

joeykoins

I have this Jefferson I sent in for the major ddo variety. PCGS brought it back to me as only a "minor variety" stated on the holder! In which, it clearly has the same doubling as the biggie. Oh well?

1956 pf. 67 minor variety

They should of givin me the FS-102

😕

Aspie_Rocco

1940-S DDR-001, 1-R-II-C
http://varietyvista.com/04a JN DD Vol 1/DDR Detail Pages/1940SDDR001.htm

Aspie_Rocco

@joeykoins said:
I have this Jefferson I sent in for the major ddo variety. PCGS brought it back to me as only a "minor variety" stated on the holder! In which, it clearly has the same doubling as the biggie. Oh well?

1956 pf. 67 minor variety
They should of givin me the FS-102

😕

It appears your coin is more likely a DDO 005. The fs102 is DDO 002. Note the extra thick base of the G in the actual fs102. Your coin seems to have a much thinner and even thickness to the G. Most of the IGWT letters are blob like and uneven from the die shift? All the other DDO for this proof year have a more even appearance.

http://varietyvista.com/04a JN DD Vol 1/DDO Detail Pages/1956PDDO005.htm

The minor variety thing… Coingratulations on that! I have sent dozens of varieties over the years and for some reason they give me either the recognized variety or none at all.
I have a few back from attribution in the last 3 weeks that were not notated at all, but are the FS# varieties 🤷‍♂️ It is always a gamble with variety attribution.

Aspie_Rocco

1913 type 2 DDR 006
http://varietyvista.com/03 Buffalo Nickels/1913PDDR006.htm

WaterSport

Let me first say thanks for your post. It is interesting how this forum is a desert when it comes to discussions on varieties. Since the CPG for cents thru nickels is now several years old and I have run out of cash (and hope) to obtain the last 7 cents needed for the PCGS variety sets. I am also glad it’s taken so long for a revision. This has allowed me to pick some additional variety cents which one day may (or may not) be included in the next revision. And frankly – I am having fun doing it! Cents not included in any CPG can be found in this obscure Showcase set plus a few odd ones that I have picked. Enjoy!

WS
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/showcase/2599

Aspie_Rocco

1962 DDO 007 (I think)
http://varietyvista.com/04b JN DD Vol 2/DDR Detail Pages/1962PDDR007.htm

Aspie_Rocco

1964 D RPM this one is interesting because compared to listed rpm’s on variety vista it looks most like RPM 005, however, 005 is a major rpm FS501

http://varietyvista.com/05 JN RPMs/RPMs 1964D.htm

WaterSport

This is my most recent Pick of a minor RPM. Its listed here:

Aspie_Rocco

That is a great RPM @WaterSport. Looks like RPM 001 south. Spreads like that are magnificent and fun to look at. It is a lot of fun finding unknown or under appreciated varieties that are not yet in CPG. The chance they will some day be officially recognized is thrilling.

c0injunky

Great post! Varieties are fun to find and certainly keep things interesting in between big coin purchases.
Some of the minor ones allow for great insight into the minting process.

emeraldATV

@124Spider said:
Cool coins, and great dedication!

I like die varieties, also. But, with the attention span of an infant, I have to be able to see the oddity without use of an electron microscope. But I really think it's cool that some of you delve into the more obscure ones!

This is one of my favorite obscure ones in my collection (both a doubled die and a RPM):

Just going through some photo's and I found this 1960 (sm date ?) Dmm
A reference if needed. The D mm looks doubled and with an anomaly showing South under it's mint mark.

Coin not in hand, but it's here somewhere.

Aspie_Rocco

Nice RPM @emeraldATV
Looks like rpm 50 Have you determined which one it is yet? http://varietyvista.com/02b LC RPMs Vol 2/1960DRPM050.htm