Are batters finding a new way to undue pitchers timing with the new rules?
tommyrusty7
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in Sports Talk
Some batters are not getting into the batters box until there is 8 seconds to go and not giving the pitchers time to throw the ball.
Is this something that should be looked at by MLB or is it just the pitchers problem?
I think Pedro Martinez would have the answer to that with a high fastball to get the batters attention!
What are your thoughts?
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I have more of an issue with the stupidity of how Cora manages his bullpen.
Two back to back blown saves by the "ace" closer. Having the lead going into the 9th inning and watch it melt away, and doing nothing is unacceptable. Aren't there other talented pitchers to choose from.? Seeing Cora standing there like a moron standing on a train track waiting to get hit. Never liked this loooooooooser, never will.
As for the new clock rules...dumber than a bag of rocks.
The more I see of that rule the less I like it.
For me, If it is within the current rules, I would encourage my hitters to do it. Seems like good management.
And yes, that is exactly what Pedro would do. And Seaver, Gibson, Ryan, Clemens and Johnson.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The clock is simply two fast. The batters in the box part is just stupid, if the clock expires the pitcher should be allowed to throw the pitch whether the batter is there or not. College uses a 20 second clock thats losely enforced and it actually works very well
Missouri 14 OSU 3
Hitters will do whatever they can get away with and good pitchers will do the same.
Adjustments are part of the game!
It does get a little scary for hitters when the ball is headed for their face so they better be careful who they pull that on.
Can you imagine a 100 mph fastball headed at your nose!
I agree that that could solve the problem.
If the batter is not ready for the pitch then it is his problem .
He would be ready for the next pitch!
The batter part makes no sense. MLB though has shown many times that they dont really understand and/or care about the game. If the batter wants to step in with a second left and have a pitch thrown by them let them. But the clock really does need to be moved to 20 or 25 seconds as a standard. Its a long season and this will likely get ugly by the end of the season
Missouri 14 OSU 3
MLB has said there will probably be changes made as they see what works and what does not.
I wouldnt hold my breath. The whole point was to shorten games so if a 3 hour game becomes a 2 hour game they can add 30 minutes of commercials and say its 30 minutes shorter. Bases were expanded for the same reason. They were smart enough not to do it right away but that happened so they can charge more for the ad space when they start selling ads on the bases. Just look at how many teams are actively tanking, and how many owners couldnt care less about winning. The A's are apparently going to get rewarded with the Vegas market for not spending money. MLBs revenue is within spitting distance of the NFL but you would never know with how many teams operate and that carries over to rule changes
Missouri 14 OSU 3
How does that not give them time to throw the ball? They still have 7 seconds to throw a pitch - AFTER having already had 8 seconds to get ready.
The pitch clock is great.
The problem with this is that "loosely enforced" would become "never enforced" at the MLB level. And it really needs to be a hard, objective standard.
By loosely enforced it means they arent itching to pull the trigger and call it right at 20 seconds. If theyre about to go at 21 or 22 seconds they usually let it go, but it still gets enforced. If you ever get the chance to watch the college games they still move along quickly and you really dont even notice that there is a clock unlike the mlb games where umpires are stopping the game to call violations
A college game actually ended on a called 3rd strike for the batter not being in the box. Fortunately the game was pretty out of reach with it being a smaller school vs LSU, but it still left a bad taste happening. Overall though the college system accomplishes everything its meant to with keeping the game moving while being much less intrusive on the game.
Missouri 14 OSU 3
I just dont see a problem with the way it is currently. batters have a certain amount of time to get into the box. pitcher then has 8 seconds to throw the ball. What is the problem there? get the sign for the next pitch while the batter is fooling around for his 7 seconds, then you have 8 seconds to wind up and pitch. easy.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
So the batter gets 15 seconds and the pitcher gets 7 seconds to get the sign, wind up and pitch the ball witch is really the whole process. I think the pitcher is getting the short end of the stick here if the batter doesn't get into the box until exactly on his 7 second time slot and he has to rush his pitch.
Its the other way around. The batter has 7 seconds the pitcher has 15. There shouldnt be any time on the batter. If hes not in the box as the clock is expiring and the pitcher throws it than so be it.
The amount of called balls and strikes weve seen from the rule already shows the rule isnt really great for either side with the times. As the season goes on and the analytics people start doing their thing youre very likely going to see pitchers intentionally take the ball to get some extra time between pitches especially on like 0-2 counts or 0-0 after a long at bat
Missouri 14 OSU 3
The umpire will not allow the pitcher to start his windup until after batter is in the batters box and if he delays getting in there until right at the last second then the umpire will ok the pitcher to start his pitch so he only has between 6 and 7 seconds.to get it off . THAT IS TOO CLOSE AND WILL CAUSE ARM PROBLEMS!
The pitcher doesnt have to wait for the batter to be in the box to be ready to throw, pitchers arent going to be throwing a pitch every 6 seconds anyways. Yes the clock is to fast for a 162 game season thats going to result in injuries and pitchers just taking the ball to get some extra time. Asking guys to throw a 180 innings in 15 second intervals just isnrt going to be a positive outcome, but it doesnt change that the batter only has 7 seconds to be ready and the current MLB umpshow loves calling violations. Christian Walker recently got ejected for just clapping, its only a matter of time until one of these umpires decides a game with the pitch clock and maybe even a playoff game
Missouri 14 OSU 3
What is wrong with an umpire calling a pitch clock violation? Does it matter if it is during a playoff game? The umpire would not be "deciding" the game, they would just be calling it in accordance to the current rules. In that scenario, the player "decided" to break the rules.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The other night the batter was causing a problem when Jansen was pitching. He would let the clock run down to 8 seconds and then jump into the batting bo while the umpire was holding his hand up to stop Jansen from pitching. He would then say he could pitch but Jansen did not have time to pitch and the umpire called a ball. This is what needs to be corrected immediately as making the pitcher wait and then rush his delivery is not a good thing for his arm or for the outcome of the pitch.
Of course it matters when umpires are looking to make themselves the star of the game. How would you feel if strike 3 was called in a playoff elimination game to end the game, how about to decide the world series? Its a powder keg right now with how the rule is just waiting to go off and at some point it will happen
Missouri 14 OSU 3
Jensen could be set and ready to go before the batter got in the box. The batter cannot cause a ball.
In the case of Jensen he has had heart surgery before. Hes not going to rush every 15 second pitch with heart rhythm issues that have had surgeries and had him sit out series in Colorado when he was a Dodger. He and other pitchers will take a ball to get the extra time. The timer is the issue not the batter
Missouri 14 OSU 3
Have the batter in the box at the 10 second time then to give the pitcher equal time. He can adjust his balls or whatever he is going to do and get back in the batters box in plenty of time.
The rule is good for the fans.
The pitchers and hitters screwed everything up by wasting a bunch of time.
The new rule is awesome.
PLAY BALL!
The rule is good but needs a little tweak here and there.
This is not correct. Jansen is not allowed to be set until the batter is in the box and ready. The goal is to prevent guys quick pitching. The batter cannot cause a ball - you're correct about that.
https://fansided.com/2023/05/13/red-sox-postgame-willson-contreras-kenley-jansen/
How are enforcing the rules of the game as currently constituted "making themselves the star of the game?"
What would I say? I would say that the batter should have been in the box, according to the rules, and be ready to hit. Or, the pitcher should have the sign and be ready to pitch when the batter is in the box. It is not the umpire's fault if certain players do not follow the rules.
should the umpires ignore the rules? enforce them sporadically? enforce them during the regular season and not the playoffs? only enforce the rules when the situation is not a pressure situation?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
This link pretty much clarifies the new rules. I'm in the minority here I think, as I don't believe the new rules really benefit the game for the fans. I am dubious about all the "analysis" or surveys seeking input from fans, blah, blah. I never saw any questions relating to this effort and what the percentiles of various question responses were. The overall objective is to shorten games and apparently have more action. I really don't think fans want a shorten game, but do want to see the players perform and of course as much action as the teams can provide. To me, this subject definitely falls into the category of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". There has already been too much confusion over these new rules. The "Manfred Man" is another no go with me.
https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-new-rules-for-2023-faq
Is it only a couple of pitchers having issues? I watched the Jansen YouTube video and he looked really uncomfortable and out of sorts. Has he always been a really slow pitcher?
You can clearly see in the video in that article this was an ump show doing exactly what I dont like about the rule. Wilson was clearly two feet in the box Jensen wasnt set, he was still moving to come set when the umpire called the ball on Jensen. I've never once seen a pitcher thats rocking back and bring up his glove being considered set before at any level until that video.
Aside from that debacle of horrible umpiring, with the electronic pitch calling pitchers get the next pitch right away. They dont have to wait for signs so they do basically get the whole time its just not enough for either side
Missouri 14 OSU 3
MLB has an umpiring problem and the way this rule is currently written its just going to increase them thinking people are buying tickets to watch them. Christian Walker got thrown out for clapping in the dugout, umps are looking for reasons to call pitch clock violations, they follow players creating conflict so they can eject them etc etc etc. Not every umpire is bad but enough of them have been trained to think theyre the star of the game that there is an issue.
Go watch the twitter video in the article posted above with that call on Jensen as a quick pitch. Im not a Boston fan and have no bias towards either team and that was clearly a bogus "I want to be the star" call by the umpire.
The rules and their enforcement do change in the playoffs, thats been true for many decades so that wouldnt be anything new. Umpires actually have discretion on the clock anyways and can add time if they want with the current rule
WS game 7 bases loaded 2 outs 3-2 count tie game, pitcher gets called for a quick pitch violation or delay and the umpire calls a ball and the winning run walks home. How about the other way, WS game 7 9th inning bases loaded down one 2 outs 2 strikes game ends because the batter isnt set in time season over they lose. How would you feel about that? Should they do what theyve been doing so far with many of them being quick to make questionable calls to be the star in that situation?
Missouri 14 OSU 3
wouldnt the reason for umpires calling a clock violation be when a clock violation occurs? they are not miscalling them. at least that I have seen
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Here's an umpire with a serious ego problem. He first takes it upon himself (while the catcher had his mitt out behind him to receive a new ball), but decides to throw the ball to the pitcher. THEN, when a new ball is needed, the catcher puts his mitt out again, but pulls it back after a short time after receiving no ball. The umpire ends up throwing the ball into the ground, thinking the catcher was showing him up. The umpire IMO, needs some attitude counseling.
100% in agreement here. I hated the batter stepping out after every pitch to adjust his gloves, then when he got back, the pitcher would go for a little stroll.
Games are being played in much more reasonable times now.
Watch the videos of them. Theres been more than one eggregious ones.
Theres also incidents like this
If people wouldnt be fine with game 7 of the world series ending on the rule call the rule is not a good one. Theres an umpiring problem in the MLB and this rule being so short and so strict allows umpires to make themselves the show whether out of spite or other reasons
Missouri 14 OSU 3
I LOVE the pitch clock!
I don't think the new rules have anything to do with shortening the game, but to increase the pace of the game. If this results in shorter games, that's fine.
I don't mind high scoring contests that last 3+ hours, what I got sick of was the 10 minute at bats.
I am not sure how or why, but baseball devolved into a game where the pitcher didn't want to throw the ball the hitter wasn't interested in hitting it and we all liked to gather on the mound to discuss things. BORING.
It was amusing when Mike Hargrove came up to bat three times a game and became known as "the human rain delay", not so much when every hitter does it and every pitcher counters it with shaking off 14 calls by the catcher when he only has 2 pitches he throws.
It was SEVERELY BROKEN and needed to be fixed. In this day and age, the way to do it is with a clock.
I think the clapping thing is a different circumstance. As far as the pitch clock, I wouldnt have a problem with a world series ending on a called strike/ball. not one. it is part of the rules. Get in the box and hit, and, if the batter takes his full 7 seconds, the pitcher should get his pitch called and be on the rubber ready to pitch. 8 seconds is plenty of time to deliver the ball.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I have put a lot of thought on this and have come to the (my own) concussion that MLB has to come to a compromise somehow on the pitch clock.
There have been just too many pitcher injuries this year for them to ignore the problem and the season is only 1/4 old.
Yes it speeds up the game but is the cost of that worth the loss of the pitchers?
I think not!
Is it worth the owners making more money!?
I think not!
How about pitchers making the decision on what pitcher they are going to throw and the catchers having no say in it?
How about batters staying in the box all the time so they are ready for he next pitch unless a foul ball off themselves?
There are other alternatives out there other than the pitcher having 7 seconds to throw the ball because that is not working!
Pitchers don't get hurt because of the pitch clock.
They were able to throw the ball in that amount of time for years before these clowns decided to stand around and do nothing for several minutes between pitches.
The clock will take some time to get used to, and maybe there needs to be a few MINOR adjustments, but overall, IT'S GREAT!
If you are going to pass a new rule, you have to enforce it aggressively. So, I imagine the umpires have been told to be quick with the calls and to not feel bad about it. Be ready to hit, be ready to pitch. Guys who are playing with the limits are getting burned. Often. That’s good. It will help them get with the program faster. In baseball, you have always been able to argue about balls and strikes when you’re called out but you are still out of the game when you’re done arguing. Entitled millionaires are always going to be slow to change. This forces it. There are plenty of guys out there who are simply not making the necessary and proper adjustments. With enough slow walks to first base or back to the dugout, people will fall in line.
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OK, so you think the pitch clock is great, what about the batters clock?
We need some adjustments as the pitchers being hurt is a problem.
do you think 15 seconds is not long enough for a pitcher/catcher to get together on what pitch is to be thrown and then deliver said pitch?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
As I said, pitchers are not being injured because of the clock.
You're definitely in the minority if youd be okay with a WS being decided by an umpire calling a pitch clock violation. Theres been numerous occasions where either the batter or pitcher was ready to go and the umpire is calling a ball or strike to be the star of the show. The same umpires that throw someone out for clapping and other egregious reasons get to call these pitch clock violations.
The idea of the clock is fine, the current time on it is preposterous and they should have just accepted the college time. The dirty secret about the clock is they want it as fast as possible so they can make a 3 hour game 2 hours then add 30 minutes of commercials and say they cut off 30 minutes of game time. Weve seen numerous times already that this clock isnt about moving the game along with how the umpires are doing it
Missouri 14 OSU 3
Yes they are, they need more time than 7 seconds as the batter is taking 7 to 8 seconds to get in the box
.
The umpires are not considering that they are taking away, by not allowing, the pitcher to start his delivery until the batter is set in the box.
I think it should be the batter has 7 seconds to get in the batters box and the pitchers 15 seconds start from there.
That gives the batter time to adjust whatever needs adjusting and it allows the pitcher to deliver the pitch without rushing.
Those extra 7 seconds are not going to make a difference in the length of the game.
7 seconds for a batter and umpires calling pitchers for "quick pitching" when they arent even set yet is the issue. 20 seconds like in college works perfectly fine and no one complains about it.
And yes pitchers are getting hurt more because of the clock. College starters throw once a week on set days on a 20 second clock in a 40-60 game schedule. MLB starters throw twice a week on a 15 second and really even 8 second clock with how some umpires are doing it for 162 games
Missouri 14 OSU 3
Give me one example where a player or manager states that a pitcher was hurt because of the pitch clock.
Ridiculous, even if it's true, then they need to do something else for a living, like road construction where EVERYONE stands around doing nothing. 😁
why is it that the pitcher/catcher cant get the pitch settled in the 7-8 seconds while the batter is adjusting his whatever, then get set on the rubber and as soon as the ump and batter are set, wind up and deliver the pitch?
this seems very very simple. dont just stand there and look at the clouds while the batter takes his 7-8 seconds, get set and ready to pitch.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
For well over 100 years this game has been played and there have been no problems like this.
Now because of such high salaries the teams need more money to pay the players and ticket prices have gone way up.
Fans are not happy because of the length of games and want to shorten the times between pitches.
Money is at the route of the whole problem.
Baseball needs to look carefully at any proposals to change the game before making any more stupid changes.
They sure did not see what would happen when they made this one as it is flawed to say the least.
The pitch clock is a GENIUS change!
What's flawed is a pitcher (most throw one of two different pitches 90% of the time), shaking off the catcher 13-14 times.
Not to be outdone, the batter then steps out when the pitcher finally decides to throw a fastball.
Never in the history of the sport has there been so much standing around, the game is slow enough already.
PLAY BALL!
There are batters getting strikes called standing in the box. There are pitchers getting balls called for quick pitching. Catchers dont call pitches anymore, the electronic does.
Youire asking people to perform at the highest level over 6 months and no chance of them getting to take a break. The extra 5 seconds college has means a lot.
Go in the back yard and throw 100 pitches according to the rules where you cant come set for 8 seconds. Do that over and over for 6 months and then do it again with the extra 5 seconds
Pitchers arent a pitching machine which theyre being asked to be. Again its not a bad idea, but how theyve done it is not smart
Missouri 14 OSU 3