Properly used (as I previously noted), "overpriced" isn't an "opinion," but a statement of fact, regarding an item that isn't selling (e.g., a house for sale that's sitting on the market for a long time is, by definition, "overpriced." I know people use the word to describe an item they think is priced too high, but that's a poor use of the term, if the item is selling.
OK, fair enough, but this definition makes it almost impossible to say that any general coin is overpriced. It's easy to say that @124Spider 's 1968 proof set for which he's asking $100 is overpriced, but hard to say that 1968 proof sets in general are overpriced.
Properly used (as I previously noted), "overpriced" isn't an "opinion," but a statement of fact, regarding an item that isn't selling (e.g., a house for sale that's sitting on the market for a long time is, by definition, "overpriced." I know people use the word to describe an item they think is priced too high, but that's a poor use of the term, if the item is selling.
OK, fair enough, but this definition makes it almost impossible to say that any general coin is overpriced. It's easy to say that @124Spider 's 1968 proof set for which he's asking $100 is overpriced, but hard to say that 1968 proof sets in general are overpriced.
Agreed, and there's nothing wrong with that, IMO. In fact, of course, that was the point of my first post on this thread--no coin listed in, e.g., the PCGS price guide, is "overpriced" at that price, since that price is the compilation of lots of information tending to show that the market values that coin at that price. If someone tries to sell such a coin at a large markup from the price guides, he/she may (but may not) have "overpriced" that coin; the market will determine that, not individuals who don't want to (or can't) spend that much money on the coin.
Collector coins are a classic example of a "commodity." And essentially nobody is forced to sell a coin, and nobody is forced to buy a coin. So when a particular issue has an established market price, at which it sells just fine, why on earth would it make sense to call it "overpriced"?
There are lots of coins that I wouldn't buy at their present prices, some of which I would love to own (yes, I actually do have a couple of long-standing holes in my collections). But lots of people are buying them at those prices, happily. They're not overpriced just because I (or some others) won't buy them at those prices.
@Cougar1978 said:
Oh their common lol - so are generic Morgan’s, much more so. I will believe that about Europe when see it.
Do you have some slabbed 64 like that - WW1 era sell me at $28? The ebay sellers around $125 (slabbed 64). Super deal? Don’t c any other retail price. For lack of better data looks like CMV. If disagree take it up w them.
It's irrelevant what I have or don't have and I didn't say it's not a good deal (for you) @ $28. I'm telling you the coin is not cheap for the scarcity at the eBay prices you quoted because it's a lot more common than you implied. As usual and as is so common with so many, you believe your personal experience is representative when it isn't.
Every time (literally) I have exchanged posts with you, you're exaggerating the scarcity and financial prospects of some world coin. In this instance, you ignored the NGC data, you ignored all PCGS coins other than MS-64, and you infer the populations are mostly complete (again) when there is no basis for such a belief whatsoever.
If it's one of the coins I'm guessing from your post, it's the 1917 or 1918. NGC and PCGS have graded between 150-200 of each as MS and yes, the grades are interchangeable to most collectors. For world coinage, these aren't low counts and given the TPG preference especially in Europe, depending upon the mintages, both almost certainly have at least thousands eligible for an MS grade and possible over 10,000, regardless of what you see on the bourse floor. You do know that as French coins, most of these are presumably in Europe (France) and not in the US, don't you? That the region has and had a large collector base, now and then?
@Cougar1978 said:
Oh their common lol - so are generic Morgan’s, much more so. I will believe that about Europe when see it.
Do you have some slabbed 64 like that - WW1 era sell me at $28? The ebay sellers around $125 (slabbed 64). Super deal? Don’t c any other retail price. For lack of better data looks like CMV. If disagree take it up w them.
It's irrelevant what I have or don't have and I didn't say it's not a good deal (for you) @ $28. I'm telling you the coin is not cheap for the scarcity at the eBay prices you quoted because it's a lot more common than you implied. As usual and as is so common with so many, you believe your personal experience is representative when it isn't.
Every time (literally) I have exchanged posts with you, you're exaggerating the scarcity and financial prospects of some world coin. In this instance, you ignored the NGC data, you ignored all PCGS coins other than MS-64, and you infer the populations are mostly complete (again) when there is no basis for such a belief whatsoever.
If it's one of the coins I'm guessing from your post, it's the 1917 or 1918. NGC and PCGS have graded between 150-200 of each as MS and yes, the grades are interchangeable to most collectors. For world coinage, these aren't low counts and given the TPG preference especially in Europe, depending upon the mintages, both almost certainly have at least thousands eligible for an MS grade and possible over 10,000, regardless of what you see on the bourse floor. You do know that as French coins, most of these are presumably in Europe (France) and not in the US, don't you? That the region has and had a large collector base, now and then?
Agree.
$28 coins with low pops usually have low pops because of how inexpensive they are. [Either die to low demand or large supply. ] 2020 Lincoln cents in MS64 RD have very low pop - 17 at PCGS. But that's because no one would dream of submitting a 64 because the price is so low. There are probably tens of millions of them out there raw.
I love my world coins because they can be inexpensive. But that doesn't mean they are under- priced.
The 1913-S Barber dime is one of the most overvalued Barber dimes. There are 29+1 in PCGS MS64 @ $2,350. Out of a 74 coin set there are 23 scarcer Barber dimes in M64 that can be bought with less money. Five of them for less than $1,000.
@124Spider said:
I have never understood the cavalier use of "overpriced" on the internet.
With respect, if a widget is selling at a particular price, it's not "overpriced," even if some people are appalled at the price. So any coin that is selling isn't, by definition, overpriced.
I certainly can understand being perplexed at some prices (low-ball coins come to mind); but if people are paying the price, it's a "fair" price, not "overpriced."
The definition of overpriced does not necessarily mean that it “costs more than it’s worth” for ALL people. It can be applied to a single person or any subset of the total population.
What definition are you looking at that specifies overpriced means it is “priced so high that NOBODY is buying it?”
What definition specifies that "overpriced" means that SOMEBODY won't buy it? By that definition, every coin would be overpriced. There's not a single coin out there that doesn't have some people unwilling to buy it.
Economists define value in terms of buyers and sellers meeting on a price. [Assuming that either, of course, could walk away.] By that definition, anything that sells sells at the right price.
Okay I get that. I just could not find a single definition of overpriced that specified nobody is buying it.
I can’t think of anyone who would misunderstand what the OP (or almost everyone (who is not an economist) else who uses that term) means when the say it.
We’re you or 124Spider totally confused by the OP, or did you immediately understand that they were asking what coins do you feel are priced too high?
There are those who live to argue on message boards. I would just mute or not interact.
My vote would be 1812 bust half. The dates on either side are much tougher to find nice in AU-MS. This is especially true with higher grade 1813 CAC pieces. The 1812s try to compete with their prices, which can get very high.
@Cougar1978 said:
Oh their common lol - so are generic Morgan’s, much more so. I will believe that about Europe when see it.
Do you have some slabbed 64 like that - WW1 era sell me at $28? The ebay sellers around $125 (slabbed 64). Super deal? Don’t c any other retail price. For lack of better data looks like CMV. If disagree take it up w them.
It's irrelevant what I have or don't have and I didn't say it's not a good deal (for you) @ $28. I'm telling you the coin is not cheap for the scarcity at the eBay prices you quoted because it's a lot more common than you implied. As usual and as is so common with so many, you believe your personal experience is representative when it isn't.
Every time (literally) I have exchanged posts with you, you're exaggerating the scarcity and financial prospects of some world coin. In this instance, you ignored the NGC data, you ignored all PCGS coins other than MS-64, and you infer the populations are mostly complete (again) when there is no basis for such a belief whatsoever.
If it's one of the coins I'm guessing from your post, it's the 1917 or 1918. NGC and PCGS have graded between 150-200 of each as MS and yes, the grades are interchangeable to most collectors. For world coinage, these aren't low counts and given the TPG preference especially in Europe, depending upon the mintages, both almost certainly have at least thousands eligible for an MS grade and possible over 10,000, regardless of what you see on the bourse floor. You do know that as French coins, most of these are presumably in Europe (France) and not in the US, don't you? That the region has and had a large collector base, now and then?
I strongly disagree with you on many of your points. My top pop world material did very well at central states and you won’t see bargains in online for long as investors are waking up and seeing an opportunity. I really don’t think you grasp the world slabbed market ready for a breakaway. The investment potential of this stuff is like Betelgeuse, The time to buy is now as much of this stuff below sticker premium of many US Coins. There is no doubt single digit and top pop super investment buys. As far as the French piece I got for $28 it’s at least $100-$150 coin, super investment buy. Yes they don’t buy a lot of slabbed coins in Europe but they are going to be picked off by US investors hungry for quality material to slab. Mexican material is another powder keg and been getting fantastic action there. 2nd Republic so undervalued. My 1968 Mexico slabbed 66 Olympic 25 pesos big hit at shows attended. Some Mexico 2nd republic pieces I had that top pop went multiples of cost - high demand. Doubt be able replace them. Will the US Market Crash as they flock to the super investment buy of world? I am planning a trip to France myself see if there all this cheap stuff laying around. Hungry for that material to slab.
I strongly disagree with you on many of your points. My top pop world material did very well at central states and you won’t see bargains in online for long as investors are waking up and seeing an opportunity.
I've never said you or another individual can't make money on this coinage, not even once. The coins you have profiled on this forum aren't "investments" but "collector" coins. "Investment" coinage is predominantly gold and crowns. The Morgan dollar is one of the biggest "investment" coins. That's a big reason it sells for current prices, nothing to do with the relative scarcity. Comparing the scarcity and prices of completely different coins as you do makes no sense.
>
I really don’t think you grasp the world slabbed market ready for a breakaway. The investment potential of this stuff is like Betelgeuse, The time to buy is now as much of this stuff below sticker premium of many US Coins. There is no doubt single digit and top pop super investment buys.
>
Yes, I know you think this, because you've ignored everything I've told you and haven't read my other posts on this subject. You also don't like what I tell you because it's contrary to what you want to hear.
If you are correct, I and many others here are going to be fabulously rich because I/we buy and collect coins which are much scarcer and have a much higher collector preference than anything you've ever sold. I already know you've never sold virtually any (if any at all) of the coins I own and have owned. You haven't seen it either, even once. Virtually none of the coins I own are offered "on the bourse floor", as that's your inaccurate point of reference. Right now, I can tell you in advance that few and maybe none of the coins in my primary collection are offered now by even one dealer in the world, except maybe as dreck.
>
The time to buy is now as much of this stuff below sticker premium of many US Coins. There is no doubt single digit and top pop super investment buys.
>
You totally misunderstand and exaggerate the likely or actual scarcity, starting with ignoring the NGC data, as if PCGS is all that exists, and it has the same relative preference over NGC with world coinage as US coinage when it does not. You appear to rely on your unrepresentative personal experience believing that what you see "on the bourse floor" is indicative of the supply when there is no basis for such a belief whatsoever. If you go to France, you'll presumably see more than in the US, but most coins are in someone collection or "change jar", not in dealer inventory. I can already anticipate that you'll back come from your trip and tell me some coin is "rare" because you couldn't find it or only a few. Invalid premises = invalid conclusions, always.
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Mexican material is another powder keg and been getting fantastic action there. 2nd Republic so undervalued. My 1968 Mexico slabbed 66 Olympic 25 pesos big hit at shows attended. Some Mexico 2nd republic pieces I had that top pop went multiples of cost - high demand. Doubt be able replace them.
>
The coins you have profiled in your posts I have read have among the lowest collector preference for the segment. If these coins explode, is everything else supposed to explode with it? If so, what exactly will collectors be able to afford in the future that they actually want? Are only the rich going to be able to buy the more and most preferred series? Are these buyers also going to find labels on pieces of plastic so fascinating as to inflate the prices to US levels as you are implying?
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Will the US Market Crash as they flock to the super investment buy of world?
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Financial markets or US coin market? If the first, I can assure you the world coinage you have in mind won't be a replacement for portfolio investment as an alternative "investment".
@cameonut2011 said:
1909-S vdb cent and 1916-D Mercury Dime come to mind. Neither is rare, and examples can be found at any coin show or online within 10 minutes.
So, should sellers lower the price? If not, how can you call it "overpriced"? If so, why should they lower it when they're selling like hot cakes as it is?
@cameonut2011 said:
1909-S vdb cent and 1916-D Mercury Dime come to mind. Neither is rare, and examples can be found at any coin show or online within 10 minutes.
There are a lot of accumulators/collectors of just "KEY DATE" coins. In the long run, as populations are better understood, prices "may" come down. Maybe not in my life time.
When was a dealer, the 1937-D three legged Buffalo Nickel was at the top of my list. The coin was always available. If you could one pick up an AU for around a thousand dollars, you could sell it for a quick profit, and it’s nothing more than a late die state.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Hard question, but I can tell you what I generally avoid - Modern Top Pops. I know that there are piles of mint rolls of modern coins, and I predict the population numbers increasing as rolls are opened.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
@BillJones said:
When was a dealer, the 1937-D three legged Buffalo Nickel was at the top of my list. The coin was always available. If you could one pick up an AU for around a thousand dollars, you could sell it for a quick profit, and it’s nothing more than a late die state.
It's a lot more than just a late die state. The mint excessively polished the die to the point that they removed one of the buffalo's legs in the process.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@BillJones said:
When was a dealer, the 1937-D three legged Buffalo Nickel was at the top of my list. The coin was always available. If you could one pick up an AU for around a thousand dollars, you could sell it for a quick profit, and it’s nothing more than a late die state.
It's a lot more than just a late die state. The mint excessively polished the die to the point that they removed one of the buffalo's legs in the process.
@BillJones said:
When was a dealer, the 1937-D three legged Buffalo Nickel was at the top of my list. The coin was always available. If you could one pick up an AU for around a thousand dollars, you could sell it for a quick profit, and it’s nothing more than a late die state.
It's a lot more than just a late die state. The mint excessively polished the die to the point that they removed one of the buffalo's legs in the process.
... because it was a late die state.
Or, the die may have been heavily die clashed necessitating polishing out the damage from that die clash. The missing leg on the reverse die was very shallow compared to the other design features so it didn't take much polishing to remove it from the die.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@BillJones said:
When was a dealer, the 1937-D three legged Buffalo Nickel was at the top of my list. The coin was always available. If you could one pick up an AU for around a thousand dollars, you could sell it for a quick profit, and it’s nothing more than a late die state.
We should start a list of coins in demand because of "tradition" rather than rarity, beauty or other sensible criteria. The 3-leg would be at the top of my list. The die was polished to the point that one leg appears to be missing - um, so what? A very common error coin of sorts, and not a very interesting one.
We should start a list of coins in demand because of "tradition" rather than rarity, beauty or other sensible criteria. The 3-leg would be at the top of my list. The die was polished to the point that one leg appears to be missing - um, so what? A very common error coin of sorts, and not a very interesting one.
I haven’t read all responses but the 3 legged buffalo nickel comes to mind. It is not rare but popular as a rare nickel for some reason. You can find one any day of the week in all grades.
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
I'm a little flummoxed by all the people saying, essentially, "if it ain't rare, and it's expensive, it's overpriced."
Rarity is only part of the relevant data attached to an issue in determining its market price. Others include condition and demand.
A coin can be rare, but if there's very little demand for it, it won't be very expensive. Conversely, a coin can be far from truly rare, but if there's a lot of demand for it, it'll be expensive.
The easiest examples include, of course, the 1909-S VDB Lincoln cent. Every coin shop in existence seems to have it in inventory, and yet it's very expensive (at least by the standards of us ordinary mortals). It's a regular issue; it's a legend, so it has been quite expensive as long as I've been aware of it (about 60 years; and probably a lot longer than that). I don't know why something like the 3-legged buffalo nickel has such demand, but it's probably because Whitman put it in the folder decades ago, so it became well known, and sought-after. And once a coin develops a legend, I'm sure it tends to stay popular.
I don't know of truly rare coins that aren't expensive, but I'm sure that there are some (ancients included).
Balancing supply and demand is what determines the market value, not mere rarity.
@124Spider said:
I'm a little flummoxed by all the people saying, essentially, "if it ain't rare, and it's expensive, it's overpriced."
Rarity is only part of the relevant data attached to an issue in determining its market price. Others include condition and demand.
A coin can be rare, but if there's very little demand for it, it won't be very expensive. Conversely, a coin can be far from truly rare, but if there's a lot of demand for it, it'll be expensive.
The easiest examples include, of course, the 1909-S VDB Lincoln cent. Every coin shop in existence seems to have it in inventory, and yet it's very expensive (at least by the standards of us ordinary mortals). It's a regular issue; it's a legend, so it has been quite expensive as long as I've been aware of it (about 60 years; and probably a lot longer than that). I don't know why something like the 3-legged buffalo nickel has such demand, but it's probably because Whitman put it in the folder decades ago, so it became well known, and sought-after. And once a coin develops a legend, I'm sure it tends to stay popular.
I don't know of truly rare coins that aren't expensive, but I'm sure that there are some (ancients included).
Balancing supply and demand is what determines the market value, not mere rarity.
Agree. The argument boils down to asking a slightly different question: what coins shouldn't be popular? Doesn't that sound rather silly?
If everyone collected by type and not date/mintmark then virtually all coins would have lessened demand and seem overvalued. Even more, if people stopped collecting coins altogether, all coins would be currently overpriced. But, guess what, neither thing is true and so all those coins are correctly priced for current market conditions.
I'm surprised no one mentioned the 1856 Flying Eagle Cent. It's not a regular mint issue and it's one of the most common patterns in the US coin series. It's only popular because it's listed in the Red Book and most coin albums have a space for it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
I'm surprised no one mentioned the 1856 Flying Eagle Cent. It's not a regular mint issue and it's one of the most common patterns in the US coin series. It's only popular because it's listed in the Red Book and most coin albums have a space for it.
@PerryHall said:
I'm surprised no one mentioned the 1856 Flying Eagle Cent. It's not a regular mint issue and it's one of the most common patterns in the US coin series. It's only popular because it's listed in the Red Book and most coin albums have a space for it.
Yes, IMO the above are good examples of why we traditionally collect certain coins and why they are in demand. There are a number of dubious "colonials" that fall into the (why the) Red Book category, perhaps the most obvious being the Mott Token. I have to say that although the SVDB and the HR Saint seem overpriced relative to their rarity, I don't care, I love them both. Inconsistent? Sure.
@PerryHall said:
I'm surprised no one mentioned the 1856 Flying Eagle Cent. It's not a regular mint issue and it's one of the most common patterns in the US coin series. It's only popular because it's listed in the Red Book and most coin albums have a space for it.
Yes, IMO the above are good examples of why we traditionally collect certain coins and why they are in demand. There are a number of dubious "colonials" that fall into the (why the) Red Book category, perhaps the most obvious being the Mott Token. I have to say that although the SVDB and the HR Saint seem overpriced relative to their rarity, I don't care, I love them both. Inconsistent? Sure.
Would the so-called New Haven Restrike Fugio Cent fall into the category of "dubious colonials"? It's not an actual restrike and it's technically a counterfeit or at best a replica.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
I'm surprised no one mentioned the 1856 Flying Eagle Cent. It's not a regular mint issue and it's one of the most common patterns in the US coin series. It's only popular because it's listed in the Red Book and most coin albums have a space for it.
Yes, IMO the above are good examples of why we traditionally collect certain coins and why they are in demand. There are a number of dubious "colonials" that fall into the (why the) Red Book category, perhaps the most obvious being the Mott Token. I have to say that although the SVDB and the HR Saint seem overpriced relative to their rarity, I don't care, I love them both. Inconsistent? Sure.
Would the so-called New Haven Restrike Fugio Cent fall into the category of "dubious colonials"? It's not an actual restrike and it's technically a counterfeit or at best a replica.
For sure. Add a bunch of Washington pieces , Elephant Tokens, Hibernias, etc. BTW I'm not knocking all these things as collectibles, only the way they are categorized, and ultimately their inclusion in what might be considered a legitimate "set" if one is collecting with a goal that isn't open-ended. Where one draws the line depends on the criteria one uses. For me the Red Book, registry lists and the like are simply suggestions.
Comments
OK, fair enough, but this definition makes it almost impossible to say that any general coin is overpriced. It's easy to say that @124Spider 's 1968 proof set for which he's asking $100 is overpriced, but hard to say that 1968 proof sets in general are overpriced.
Agreed, and there's nothing wrong with that, IMO. In fact, of course, that was the point of my first post on this thread--no coin listed in, e.g., the PCGS price guide, is "overpriced" at that price, since that price is the compilation of lots of information tending to show that the market values that coin at that price. If someone tries to sell such a coin at a large markup from the price guides, he/she may (but may not) have "overpriced" that coin; the market will determine that, not individuals who don't want to (or can't) spend that much money on the coin.
Collector coins are a classic example of a "commodity." And essentially nobody is forced to sell a coin, and nobody is forced to buy a coin. So when a particular issue has an established market price, at which it sells just fine, why on earth would it make sense to call it "overpriced"?
There are lots of coins that I wouldn't buy at their present prices, some of which I would love to own (yes, I actually do have a couple of long-standing holes in my collections). But lots of people are buying them at those prices, happily. They're not overpriced just because I (or some others) won't buy them at those prices.
It's irrelevant what I have or don't have and I didn't say it's not a good deal (for you) @ $28. I'm telling you the coin is not cheap for the scarcity at the eBay prices you quoted because it's a lot more common than you implied. As usual and as is so common with so many, you believe your personal experience is representative when it isn't.
Every time (literally) I have exchanged posts with you, you're exaggerating the scarcity and financial prospects of some world coin. In this instance, you ignored the NGC data, you ignored all PCGS coins other than MS-64, and you infer the populations are mostly complete (again) when there is no basis for such a belief whatsoever.
If it's one of the coins I'm guessing from your post, it's the 1917 or 1918. NGC and PCGS have graded between 150-200 of each as MS and yes, the grades are interchangeable to most collectors. For world coinage, these aren't low counts and given the TPG preference especially in Europe, depending upon the mintages, both almost certainly have at least thousands eligible for an MS grade and possible over 10,000, regardless of what you see on the bourse floor. You do know that as French coins, most of these are presumably in Europe (France) and not in the US, don't you? That the region has and had a large collector base, now and then?
Agree.
$28 coins with low pops usually have low pops because of how inexpensive they are. [Either die to low demand or large supply. ] 2020 Lincoln cents in MS64 RD have very low pop - 17 at PCGS. But that's because no one would dream of submitting a 64 because the price is so low. There are probably tens of millions of them out there raw.
I love my world coins because they can be inexpensive. But that doesn't mean they are under- priced.
The 1913-S Barber dime is one of the most overvalued Barber dimes. There are 29+1 in PCGS MS64 @ $2,350. Out of a 74 coin set there are 23 scarcer Barber dimes in M64 that can be bought with less money. Five of them for less than $1,000.
There are those who live to argue on message boards. I would just mute or not interact.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
My vote would be 1812 bust half. The dates on either side are much tougher to find nice in AU-MS. This is especially true with higher grade 1813 CAC pieces. The 1812s try to compete with their prices, which can get very high.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
I strongly disagree with you on many of your points. My top pop world material did very well at central states and you won’t see bargains in online for long as investors are waking up and seeing an opportunity. I really don’t think you grasp the world slabbed market ready for a breakaway. The investment potential of this stuff is like Betelgeuse, The time to buy is now as much of this stuff below sticker premium of many US Coins. There is no doubt single digit and top pop super investment buys. As far as the French piece I got for $28 it’s at least $100-$150 coin, super investment buy. Yes they don’t buy a lot of slabbed coins in Europe but they are going to be picked off by US investors hungry for quality material to slab. Mexican material is another powder keg and been getting fantastic action there. 2nd Republic so undervalued. My 1968 Mexico slabbed 66 Olympic 25 pesos big hit at shows attended. Some Mexico 2nd republic pieces I had that top pop went multiples of cost - high demand. Doubt be able replace them. Will the US Market Crash as they flock to the super investment buy of world? I am planning a trip to France myself see if there all this cheap stuff laying around. Hungry for that material to slab.
I've never said you or another individual can't make money on this coinage, not even once. The coins you have profiled on this forum aren't "investments" but "collector" coins. "Investment" coinage is predominantly gold and crowns. The Morgan dollar is one of the biggest "investment" coins. That's a big reason it sells for current prices, nothing to do with the relative scarcity. Comparing the scarcity and prices of completely different coins as you do makes no sense.
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I really don’t think you grasp the world slabbed market ready for a breakaway. The investment potential of this stuff is like Betelgeuse, The time to buy is now as much of this stuff below sticker premium of many US Coins. There is no doubt single digit and top pop super investment buys.
>
Yes, I know you think this, because you've ignored everything I've told you and haven't read my other posts on this subject. You also don't like what I tell you because it's contrary to what you want to hear.
If you are correct, I and many others here are going to be fabulously rich because I/we buy and collect coins which are much scarcer and have a much higher collector preference than anything you've ever sold. I already know you've never sold virtually any (if any at all) of the coins I own and have owned. You haven't seen it either, even once. Virtually none of the coins I own are offered "on the bourse floor", as that's your inaccurate point of reference. Right now, I can tell you in advance that few and maybe none of the coins in my primary collection are offered now by even one dealer in the world, except maybe as dreck.
>
The time to buy is now as much of this stuff below sticker premium of many US Coins. There is no doubt single digit and top pop super investment buys.
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You totally misunderstand and exaggerate the likely or actual scarcity, starting with ignoring the NGC data, as if PCGS is all that exists, and it has the same relative preference over NGC with world coinage as US coinage when it does not. You appear to rely on your unrepresentative personal experience believing that what you see "on the bourse floor" is indicative of the supply when there is no basis for such a belief whatsoever. If you go to France, you'll presumably see more than in the US, but most coins are in someone collection or "change jar", not in dealer inventory. I can already anticipate that you'll back come from your trip and tell me some coin is "rare" because you couldn't find it or only a few. Invalid premises = invalid conclusions, always.
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Mexican material is another powder keg and been getting fantastic action there. 2nd Republic so undervalued. My 1968 Mexico slabbed 66 Olympic 25 pesos big hit at shows attended. Some Mexico 2nd republic pieces I had that top pop went multiples of cost - high demand. Doubt be able replace them.
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The coins you have profiled in your posts I have read have among the lowest collector preference for the segment. If these coins explode, is everything else supposed to explode with it? If so, what exactly will collectors be able to afford in the future that they actually want? Are only the rich going to be able to buy the more and most preferred series? Are these buyers also going to find labels on pieces of plastic so fascinating as to inflate the prices to US levels as you are implying?
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Will the US Market Crash as they flock to the super investment buy of world?
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Financial markets or US coin market? If the first, I can assure you the world coinage you have in mind won't be a replacement for portfolio investment as an alternative "investment".
1909-S vdb cent and 1916-D Mercury Dime come to mind. Neither is rare, and examples can be found at any coin show or online within 10 minutes.
So, should sellers lower the price? If not, how can you call it "overpriced"? If so, why should they lower it when they're selling like hot cakes as it is?
There are a lot of accumulators/collectors of just "KEY DATE" coins. In the long run, as populations are better understood, prices "may" come down. Maybe not in my life time.
When was a dealer, the 1937-D three legged Buffalo Nickel was at the top of my list. The coin was always available. If you could one pick up an AU for around a thousand dollars, you could sell it for a quick profit, and it’s nothing more than a late die state.
Hard question, but I can tell you what I generally avoid - Modern Top Pops. I know that there are piles of mint rolls of modern coins, and I predict the population numbers increasing as rolls are opened.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
It's a lot more than just a late die state. The mint excessively polished the die to the point that they removed one of the buffalo's legs in the process.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
... because it was a late die state.
Or, the die may have been heavily die clashed necessitating polishing out the damage from that die clash. The missing leg on the reverse die was very shallow compared to the other design features so it didn't take much polishing to remove it from the die.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
We should start a list of coins in demand because of "tradition" rather than rarity, beauty or other sensible criteria. The 3-leg would be at the top of my list. The die was polished to the point that one leg appears to be missing - um, so what? A very common error coin of sorts, and not a very interesting one.
Add to the list - 1922 Plain 1 C & 1918/7-D 5C
I haven’t read all responses but the 3 legged buffalo nickel comes to mind. It is not rare but popular as a rare nickel for some reason. You can find one any day of the week in all grades.
I'm a little flummoxed by all the people saying, essentially, "if it ain't rare, and it's expensive, it's overpriced."
Rarity is only part of the relevant data attached to an issue in determining its market price. Others include condition and demand.
A coin can be rare, but if there's very little demand for it, it won't be very expensive. Conversely, a coin can be far from truly rare, but if there's a lot of demand for it, it'll be expensive.
The easiest examples include, of course, the 1909-S VDB Lincoln cent. Every coin shop in existence seems to have it in inventory, and yet it's very expensive (at least by the standards of us ordinary mortals). It's a regular issue; it's a legend, so it has been quite expensive as long as I've been aware of it (about 60 years; and probably a lot longer than that). I don't know why something like the 3-legged buffalo nickel has such demand, but it's probably because Whitman put it in the folder decades ago, so it became well known, and sought-after. And once a coin develops a legend, I'm sure it tends to stay popular.
I don't know of truly rare coins that aren't expensive, but I'm sure that there are some (ancients included).
Balancing supply and demand is what determines the market value, not mere rarity.
Agree. The argument boils down to asking a slightly different question: what coins shouldn't be popular? Doesn't that sound rather silly?
If everyone collected by type and not date/mintmark then virtually all coins would have lessened demand and seem overvalued. Even more, if people stopped collecting coins altogether, all coins would be currently overpriced. But, guess what, neither thing is true and so all those coins are correctly priced for current market conditions.
I'm surprised no one mentioned the 1856 Flying Eagle Cent. It's not a regular mint issue and it's one of the most common patterns in the US coin series. It's only popular because it's listed in the Red Book and most coin albums have a space for it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yes, that's always been my favorite example.
Yes, IMO the above are good examples of why we traditionally collect certain coins and why they are in demand. There are a number of dubious "colonials" that fall into the (why the) Red Book category, perhaps the most obvious being the Mott Token. I have to say that although the SVDB and the HR Saint seem overpriced relative to their rarity, I don't care, I love them both. Inconsistent? Sure.
Would the so-called New Haven Restrike Fugio Cent fall into the category of "dubious colonials"? It's not an actual restrike and it's technically a counterfeit or at best a replica.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
For sure. Add a bunch of Washington pieces , Elephant Tokens, Hibernias, etc. BTW I'm not knocking all these things as collectibles, only the way they are categorized, and ultimately their inclusion in what might be considered a legitimate "set" if one is collecting with a goal that isn't open-ended. Where one draws the line depends on the criteria one uses. For me the Red Book, registry lists and the like are simply suggestions.