Sad state of affairs. I self insure anything under a grand. Take the risk and just do the refund if necessary. Cost of doing business is returns and refunds or non-deliveries and refunds.
It's a shame when a deal gets blown up by the delivery service but it does happen. Not every transaction can be done face to face as in a perfect world. The internet has been both beneficial and negative. In one case we get to see and buy coins that otherwise would not come up on our radar. On the other hand we are dealing with people we have never met and take risks we otherwise would never do.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
Way to shoot your rep here over $110. It may not be your fault but it is your responsibility to make the buyer whole.
Frankly if I'm the buyer here and had some spare time, just out of general principle I'd consider a nuisance small claims action in MY jurisdiction for the $110 plus filing and serving costs. Seller would either have to come here to respond or get a judgement against him. I wouldn't care about the $110; it's more about causing inconvenience. I can be petty sometimes if riled.
I agree with @telephoto1. It’s the principle of this mess. I would go out of my way to inconvenience, Mr. @silverpop. He’s lucky it’s not me cause I’m retired and have all the time in the world to go way out of my way to right this wrong.
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
@crazyhounddog said:
I agree with @telephoto1. It’s the principle of this mess. I would go out of my way to inconvenience, Mr. @silverpop. He’s lucky it’s not me cause I’m retired and have all the time in the world to go way out of my way to right this wrong.
@Greenstang said:
He may not be able to make sales on this site but he is still selling on Coin Talk.
Just made a sale to a member last Saturday.
It’s just so surprising that many people are willing to pay him in a way that offers no protection at all.
It's even more surprising to me that some people will continue to give him business knowing what he did to a fellow member. This guy should be persona non grata.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
"let's see your legal proof of these opinions cause i'm going to love to see this
when i say legal proof i mean legal papers from a court saying that all those opinions are true and i have the right to ask for that proof so let's see it"
@MFeld said:
As much as I dislike how that person has acted, a PM should remain private.
The pm means nothing to me. It just shows the mentality of what type of person that people are dealing with. He is basically insinuating that none of this is true. All I did was link this discussion at CT to warn others of the possible consequences that might occur when dealing with this person. It's not my fight, just raising awareness.
As much as I dislike how that person has acted, a PM should remain private.
A
Private conversation is only private if both parties agree. If some
One is bulling a person in PM he has no expiation that it will remain silent.
It not like your communicating with your doc, wife, or attorney
Just saying
My father in law once gave
Me
Some
Advice don’t get in a tiff with an old retired guy. He has nothing better to do than screw with you.
Not to stir the pot here, but didn't he put IN THE ADD that he was not liable for anything after dropping it at the PO and the seller needed to get insurance, if so desired?
At least that's what he used to do. I'd love to see the original add.....
@SurfinxHI said:
Not to stir the pot here, but didn't he put IN THE ADD that he was not liable for anything after dropping it at the PO and the seller needed to get insurance, if so desired?
At least that's what he used to do. I'd love to see the original add.....
By "ADD", I assume you mean "listing". A couple of days before this blew-up, I bought his 1937 buffalo nickel in PCGS MS66 for $56. His listing made it abundantly clear that he wouldn't buy insurance and once he mailed my coin he would send me a tracking number and then any problems would be between me and the USPS. I thought this was a rather strange way of conducting business but I was willing to assume the risk of not getting the coin because the USPS lost it, stole it, or destroyed it with their equipment. Once he got my check a couple of days ago, he contacted me to let me know the check arrived, he reiterated the terms that we agreed to, and then he gave me a chance to back out of the deal. I told him that I was willing to self-insure for such an inexpensive coin and to go ahead and mail my coin. The tracking for my coin shows that it will be delivered sometime today. If for some reason I don't get it, I promise you guys that I won't start a thread here whining about it. His terms were very clear and I agreed to them and as a responsible adult I'll live with the consequences.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
@SurfinxHI said:
Not to stir the pot here, but didn't he put IN THE ADD that he was not liable for anything after dropping it at the PO and the seller needed to get insurance, if so desired?
At least that's what he used to do. I'd love to see the original add.....
By "ADD", I assume you mean "listing". A couple of days before this blew-up, I bought his 1937 buffalo nickel in PCGS MS66 for $56. His listing made it abundantly clear that he wouldn't buy insurance and once he mailed my coin he would send me a tracking number and then any problems would be between me and the USPS. I thought this was a rather strange way of conducting business but I was willing to assume the risk of not getting the coin because the USPS lost it, stole it, or destroyed it with their equipment. Once he got my check a couple of days ago, he contacted me to let me know the check arrived, he reiterated the terms that we agreed to, and then he gave me a chance to back out of the deal. I told him that I was willing to self-insure for such an inexpensive coin and to go ahead and mail my coin. The tracking for my coin shows that it will be delivered sometime today. If for some reason I don't get it, I promise you guys that I won't start a thread here whining about it. His terms were very clear and I agreed to them and as a responsible adult I'll live with the consequences.
There is always "the other side to the story".
If, in fact, @ponderit agreed to the same terms then a few dozen people owe @silverpop a bit of an apology.
If you don't like the terms, then don't agree to them.
I have been buying coins from silverpop since at least 2019.
As I stated in an earlier thread, he always made it perfectly clear that once the post office had the package he was mailing to me, he was no longer responsible for any loss. I told him that I had no problem with that, because my loss of money would be minimal if the coin(s) were lost in transit.
Also, his prices for what he was selling his coins, were among the best on our BST in my opinion. Well worth the risk to me.
As far as pay pal goes, I can understand why many old school people do not use it. I just started using pay pal myself a couple of years ago. Silverpop deals in cash and checks only. I can understand that, and have no problem with it.
In all of my dealing with silverpop, after he received my checks, he promply mailed my coins and sent me a tracking number. All coins arrived safe and sound.
@JoeLewis said:
Man. If @ponderit agreed to those terms, then this whole thing is really messed up. I would like to think that he would have mentioned that!
It’s also possible @silverpop started adding that disclaimer to his listings because of the issues with the shipment to @ponderit.
I don't think so since the recent testimonials are for older transactions. @CoinHoarder has transactions going back to 2019. Scroll up.
I agreed to NO terms regarding shipping / potential problems with the PO, there were none in his listing,
There was nothing stated in his post regarding shipping or insurance, just that he would only accept a personal check (my antenna should have gone up right then, my fault). He also listed the price and a couple of pictures. I offered him $110. He accepted. I didn't inquire about insurance because insurance protects him, not me. I expected the package to get here. When it did not I was courteous and not pressing but did let him know. He could also see that on the USPS tracking. After a week or so I asked about insurance thinking that if this continued to go sideways, if insured he would probably be able to file a claim, get reimbursed for the coins and we could both be made whole. He said the it wasn't insured and after that he no longer communicated with me, either by PM or email, completely ignored me. When I saw his post showing off his new Morgan purchase I knew he was still alive so I took the opportunity with my post to try to get his attention.
I know I'm not getting my money back. I realized that weeks ago. If nothing else now it looks like when he lists a coin at least he'll be adding his shipping disclaimer. If he had had that language on the listing that I responded to I would have never even reached out to him with an offer.
I'm glad some of you have had good transactions with Colin, I did not. If he would have reimbursed me as I had asked him too several times, only to be ignored, this would have all been a non-issue.
@ponderit said:
I agreed to NO terms regarding shipping / potential problems with the PO, there were none in his listing,
There was nothing stated in his post regarding shipping or insurance, just that he would only accept a personal check (my antenna should have gone up right then, my fault). He also listed the price and a couple of pictures. I offered him $110. He accepted. I didn't inquire about insurance because insurance protects him, not me. I expected the package to get here. When it did not I was courteous and not pressing but did let him know. He could also see that on the USPS tracking. After a week or so I asked about insurance thinking that if this continued to go sideways, if insured he would probably be able to file a claim, get reimbursed for the coins and we could both be made whole. He said the it wasn't insured and after that he no longer communicated with me, either by PM or email, completely ignored me. When I saw his post showing off his new Morgan purchase I knew he was still alive so I took the opportunity with my post to try to get his attention.
I know I'm not getting my money back. I realized that weeks ago. If nothing else now it looks like when he lists a coin at least he'll be adding his shipping disclaimer. If he had had that language on the listing that I responded to I would have never even reached out to him with an offer.
I'm glad some of you have had good transactions with Colin, I did not. If he would have reimbursed me as I had asked him too several times, only to be ignored, this would have all been a non-issue.
Bill
@ponderit 's position was quite clear from the beginning, and he has summarized it again here. There is no reason for anyone to be confused about the situation.
The seller did not insure the package, it was lost in the mail, and they refused any communication on it. That last part is as disturbing as anything.
I keep hearing how his coins are very reasonably priced, so there is obviously a little room to increase the price enough to cover insurance. The problem is, he believes he has no moral or legal obligations in regard to delivery. He provides a tracking number and he thinks that is the extent of his responsibility.
I believe that his beefed up disclaimers are a direct result of these threads.
Years ago when I was living overseas I ordered a $10 coin from the US. I declined insurance because of the cost. The coin never arrived, the seller still wanted to reimburse me, but I told him no, since I had specifically taken on the risk. Others here have indicated that they take a similar approach, but that doesn't change the disturbing behavior or attitude of this seller.
dbldie, I've never been smart enough to be an attorney, and I'm not a lawsuit kind of guy
In response to @jmlanzaf's supposition that the listing must have contained a shipping disclaimer, if it did don't you think silverpop would have been all over the thread. He was not. And as I mentioned earlier, if it did I would have never even made an offer.
@ponderit said:
dbldie, I've never been smart enough to be an attorney, and I'm not a lawsuit kind of guy
In response to @jmlanzaf's supposition that the listing must have contained a shipping disclaimer, if it did don't you think silverpop would have been all over the thread. He was not. And as I mentioned earlier, if it did I would have never even made an offer.
I made no such supposition. Several forum regulars indicated that @silverpop BST listings have a had that disclaimer going back years. I simply indicated that IF that were true, the story is quite different. [Unfortunately, silverpop deletes the listings when they sell, so we'll never know for certain. ]
Since you called me out, I will say that I have a problem with this public bashing.
@SurfinxHI said:
Not to stir the pot here, but didn't he put IN THE ADD that he was not liable for anything after dropping it at the PO and the seller needed to get insurance, if so desired?
At least that's what he used to do. I'd love to see the original add.....
By "ADD", I assume you mean "listing". A couple of days before this blew-up, I bought his 1937 buffalo nickel in PCGS MS66 for $56. His listing made it abundantly clear that he wouldn't buy insurance and once he mailed my coin he would send me a tracking number and then any problems would be between me and the USPS. I thought this was a rather strange way of conducting business but I was willing to assume the risk of not getting the coin because the USPS lost it, stole it, or destroyed it with their equipment. Once he got my check a couple of days ago, he contacted me to let me know the check arrived, he reiterated the terms that we agreed to, and then he gave me a chance to back out of the deal. I told him that I was willing to self-insure for such an inexpensive coin and to go ahead and mail my coin. The tracking for my coin shows that it will be delivered sometime today. If for some reason I don't get it, I promise you guys that I won't start a thread here whining about it. His terms were very clear and I agreed to them and as a responsible adult I'll live with the consequences.
There is always "the other side to the story".
If, in fact, @ponderit agreed to the same terms then a few dozen people owe @silverpop a bit of an apology.
If you don't like the terms, then don't agree to them.
I'm relatively sure the terms don't say "I get to keep your money whether you get the item or not"...
(Cost of shipping is inclusive of the price of the coin)
FOB Destination, the seller is responsible until coin is delivered to buyer's door step and received. Seller is responsible to make buyer whole if coin is lost or damaged during shipping.
2. Separate line/cost for shipping = FOB Origin.
(cost of shipping is in addition to or exclusive to the price of the coin).
FOB Origin, seller's responsibility passes to the buyer once the coin is in the shipper's possession. Also, becomes the buyer's responsibility to file any claim with shipper if package not received or item is damaged.
For obvious reasons FOB Destination is the preferred method as a buyer.
It all depends on shipping terms, which should correlate to how shipping costs were charged and paid for e.g. inclusive or exclusive of the coin(s) price.
@CoinHoarder said:
I have been buying coins from silverpop since at least 2019.
As I stated in an earlier thread, he always made it perfectly clear that once the post office had the package he was mailing to me, he was no longer responsible for any loss. I told him that I had no problem with that, because my loss of money would be minimal if the coin(s) were lost in transit.
Also, his prices for what he was selling his coins, were among the best on our BST in my opinion. Well worth the risk to me.
As far as pay pal goes, I can understand why many old school people do not use it. I just started using pay pal myself a couple of years ago. Silverpop deals in cash and checks only. I can understand that, and have no problem with it.
In all of my dealing with silverpop, after he received my checks, he promply mailed my coins and sent me a tracking number. All coins arrived safe and sound.
Where I come from it’s the sellers responsibility to make sure the buyer receives the item. If not the buyer should be made whole. It’s just as simple as that. @ponderit has said he did NOT agree to any deal like you have mentioned. The seller doesn’t have a good leg to stand on. No matter how you look at it it’s completely wrong. I think anyone that would agree to a deal like mentioned @CoinHoarder is going to go broke fast cause there are people that are just thieves at heart.
This kinda deal would NEVER fly on eBay so what’s the difference here on BST besides no one to enforce the right thing to do?
This deal @ponderit has to eat dirt.
It’s stinks so damn bad I need a respirator!
My humble opinion.
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
What happened? Last time I checked this thread, it was mostly unanimous that Colin should "make it right." Now there's a bunch of flip flopping.. IMO, this is still wrong on every level. Colin's moral behavior of not making this right and outright awful communication completely ignoring Bill is far beyond being okay! Just because it worked out for some members, doesn't make it okay to screw Bill! JMHO
@SurfinxHI said:
Not to stir the pot here, but didn't he put IN THE ADD that he was not liable for anything after dropping it at the PO and the seller needed to get insurance, if so desired?
At least that's what he used to do. I'd love to see the original add.....
By "ADD", I assume you mean "listing". A couple of days before this blew-up, I bought his 1937 buffalo nickel in PCGS MS66 for $56. His listing made it abundantly clear that he wouldn't buy insurance and once he mailed my coin he would send me a tracking number and then any problems would be between me and the USPS. I thought this was a rather strange way of conducting business but I was willing to assume the risk of not getting the coin because the USPS lost it, stole it, or destroyed it with their equipment. Once he got my check a couple of days ago, he contacted me to let me know the check arrived, he reiterated the terms that we agreed to, and then he gave me a chance to back out of the deal. I told him that I was willing to self-insure for such an inexpensive coin and to go ahead and mail my coin. The tracking for my coin shows that it will be delivered sometime today. If for some reason I don't get it, I promise you guys that I won't start a thread here whining about it. His terms were very clear and I agreed to them and as a responsible adult I'll live with the consequences.
There is always "the other side to the story".
If, in fact, @ponderit agreed to the same terms then a few dozen people owe @silverpop a bit of an apology.
If you don't like the terms, then don't agree to them.
I'm relatively sure the terms don't say "I get to keep your money whether you get the item or not"...
According to at least two posters (I can't know), the terms say that shipping is at the buyer's risk. I would be interested in hearing from others who have done business with him as to whether that was his standard practice.
@USMC_6115 said:
What happened? Last time I checked this thread, it was mostly unanimous that Colin should "make it right." Now there's a bunch of flip flopping.. IMO, this is still wrong on every level. Colin's moral behavior of not making this right and outright awful communication completely ignoring Bill is far beyond being okay! Just because it worked out for some members, doesn't make it okay to screw Bill! JMHO
It really comes down to what the terms were at the time of the sale. IF IF IF the terms are "shipping at buyer's risk", it is a very different story.
NOTE:
1. I don't know. I've never done business with him.
2. That doesn't mean that Colin is either nice, a good communicator, etc.
But if I accept the risk of shipping, it's not really fair for me to shift it later. [IF IF IF that's what happened.]
I NEVER would have done business under either term (check payment or assuming the risk myself). However, to me, it does matter what the ORIGINAL terms were and what was agreed to. @CoinHoarder says that Colin has been specifying that shipping risk is the buyer's going back to 2019. If true, doesn't that make this a different kettle of fish?
@USMC_6115 said:
What happened? Last time I checked this thread, it was mostly unanimous that Colin should "make it right." Now there's a bunch of flip flopping.. IMO, this is still wrong on every level. Colin's moral behavior of not making this right and outright awful communication completely ignoring Bill is far beyond being okay! Just because it worked out for some members, doesn't make it okay to screw Bill! JMHO
It really comes down to what the terms were at the time of the sale. IF IF IF the terms are "shipping at buyer's risk", it is a very different story.
NOTE:
1. I don't know. I've never done business with him.
2. That doesn't mean that Colin is either nice, a good communicator, etc.
But if I accept the risk of shipping, it's not really fair for me to shift it later. [IF IF IF that's what happened.]
I NEVER would have done business under either term (check payment or assuming the risk myself). However, to me, it does matter what the ORIGINAL terms were and what was agreed to. @CoinHoarder says that Colin has been specifying that shipping risk is the buyer's going back to 2019. If true, doesn't that make this a different kettle of fish?
It appears that Colin may have selectively added that disclaimer to some listings, and not others. Based on the original account of Ponderit, of whom we have no reason to question, and the lack of defense by Colin in the thread, it was apparent to me that the disclaimer was not present in the listing. If that were the case, Colin could have told him flat out that those were the terms he agreed to, rather than ignore 7 or 8 pms before making his account private.
As you previously stated, it is unfortunate that Colin deleted the BST post, which in this case would have helped had the disclosure been there to begin with, which imo is annoying in its own right. I don't see how it serves anyone to wipe a listing entirely, its one thing if you want to remove the price but I'm of the opinion that BST listings should remain in tact for posterity and situations such as this one.
As I've mentioned more than once, if Colin had stipulated his delivery limitations in his original post I would have never even thought about making an offer, plain and simple. The point of my original post was borne out of frustration for his lack of communication and the hope to save someone else the same. I'd already written the $$ off as lost at the time of the post so I had nothing to gain.
There are a lot of people here that could attest to the fact that I've bought coins from them, some fairly high end (for me) and to the fact that I pay very quickly and don't cause them grief. I've never, ever had an issue here before.
I'm puzzled by this. I have had many successful transactions with Colin. It would be a shame if this was not resolved amicably.
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
I NEVER would have done business under either term (check payment or assuming the risk myself). However, to me, it does matter what the ORIGINAL terms were and what was agreed to. @CoinHoarder says that Colin has been specifying that shipping risk is the buyer's going back to 2019. If true, doesn't that make this a different kettle of fish?
All I know is that the buyer here reached out to the seller and said seller can't even be bothered to try to do something as simple as searching with USPS from his end. The indifference and now flat out disappearance of the seller pretty much tells me what I need to know.
As an aside, the CT thread mentioned earlier has been poofed I believe.
Comments
Sad state of affairs. I self insure anything under a grand. Take the risk and just do the refund if necessary. Cost of doing business is returns and refunds or non-deliveries and refunds.
It's a shame when a deal gets blown up by the delivery service but it does happen. Not every transaction can be done face to face as in a perfect world. The internet has been both beneficial and negative. In one case we get to see and buy coins that otherwise would not come up on our radar. On the other hand we are dealing with people we have never met and take risks we otherwise would never do.
bob
I had to look "Kalayaan" up:
[People also ask"
What does Kalayaan mean?
liberty or freedom
Kalayaan is a Filipino word for liberty or freedom.]
In silverpop's case, it means freedom from doing the right thing. Freedom in not insuring packages.
peacockcoins
Way to shoot your rep here over $110. It may not be your fault but it is your responsibility to make the buyer whole.
Frankly if I'm the buyer here and had some spare time, just out of general principle I'd consider a nuisance small claims action in MY jurisdiction for the $110 plus filing and serving costs. Seller would either have to come here to respond or get a judgement against him. I wouldn't care about the $110; it's more about causing inconvenience. I can be petty sometimes if riled.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I agree with @telephoto1. It’s the principle of this mess. I would go out of my way to inconvenience, Mr. @silverpop. He’s lucky it’s not me cause I’m retired and have all the time in the world to go way out of my way to right this wrong.
Warning. Do not provoke the @crazyhounddog
I’ve seen his work. And he’s got backup 😁
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I'm retired also
Right with you!
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Still disappointing to read. Worthy of a bump..
My YouTube Channel
He may not be able to make sales on this site but he is still selling on Coin Talk.
Just made a sale to a member last Saturday.
It’s just so surprising that many people are willing to pay him in a way that offers no protection at all.
I’ve been burned before, and it’s a crummy feeling. A helpless feeling. Unfortunately, people like this always find a way to thrive.
I’m sure he’s done with this site, but obviously he’s still selling elsewhere.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I linked this thread over on CT in the For Sale section.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
It's even more surprising to me that some people will continue to give him business knowing what he did to a fellow member. This guy should be persona non grata.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/rumors.405329/
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Love this! Not all heroes wear capes, thank you for your service good sir. 🫡
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
For those that don't have a CoinTalk login, that thread is in the general section (and requires one to login).
Here is the post:
🤦🏼♂️
BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.
Maybe someone should tell him that he cannot hire a decent attorney for $110.00?
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
But ... My Cousin Vinnie took the case for NOTHING.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
He doesn’t need an attorney. He speaks extremely eloquently and is obviously very well versed on the law.😉😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
At some point this is just piling on...
He sent me a pm over at CT.
"let's see your legal proof of these opinions cause i'm going to love to see this
when i say legal proof i mean legal papers from a court saying that all those opinions are true and i have the right to ask for that proof so let's see it"
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
As much as I dislike how that person has acted, a PM should remain private.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I like how he insists he has "rights" even as he ignores the rights of his customer.
The pm means nothing to me. It just shows the mentality of what type of person that people are dealing with. He is basically insinuating that none of this is true. All I did was link this discussion at CT to warn others of the possible consequences that might occur when dealing with this person. It's not my fight, just raising awareness.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
&m> @MFeld said:
A
Private conversation is only private if both parties agree. If some
One is bulling a person in PM he has no expiation that it will remain silent.
It not like your communicating with your doc, wife, or attorney
Just saying
My father in law once gave
Me
Some
Advice don’t get in a tiff with an old retired guy. He has nothing better to do than screw with you.
Seems there is a few of them here.
I’m glad bosshog outed him on CT.
Martin
Not to stir the pot here, but didn't he put IN THE ADD that he was not liable for anything after dropping it at the PO and the seller needed to get insurance, if so desired?
At least that's what he used to do. I'd love to see the original add.....
By "ADD", I assume you mean "listing". A couple of days before this blew-up, I bought his 1937 buffalo nickel in PCGS MS66 for $56. His listing made it abundantly clear that he wouldn't buy insurance and once he mailed my coin he would send me a tracking number and then any problems would be between me and the USPS. I thought this was a rather strange way of conducting business but I was willing to assume the risk of not getting the coin because the USPS lost it, stole it, or destroyed it with their equipment. Once he got my check a couple of days ago, he contacted me to let me know the check arrived, he reiterated the terms that we agreed to, and then he gave me a chance to back out of the deal. I told him that I was willing to self-insure for such an inexpensive coin and to go ahead and mail my coin. The tracking for my coin shows that it will be delivered sometime today. If for some reason I don't get it, I promise you guys that I won't start a thread here whining about it. His terms were very clear and I agreed to them and as a responsible adult I'll live with the consequences.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
There is always "the other side to the story".
If, in fact, @ponderit agreed to the same terms then a few dozen people owe @silverpop a bit of an apology.
If you don't like the terms, then don't agree to them.
I have been buying coins from silverpop since at least 2019.
As I stated in an earlier thread, he always made it perfectly clear that once the post office had the package he was mailing to me, he was no longer responsible for any loss. I told him that I had no problem with that, because my loss of money would be minimal if the coin(s) were lost in transit.
Also, his prices for what he was selling his coins, were among the best on our BST in my opinion. Well worth the risk to me.
As far as pay pal goes, I can understand why many old school people do not use it. I just started using pay pal myself a couple of years ago. Silverpop deals in cash and checks only. I can understand that, and have no problem with it.
In all of my dealing with silverpop, after he received my checks, he promply mailed my coins and sent me a tracking number. All coins arrived safe and sound.
Man. If @ponderit agreed to those terms, then this whole thing is really messed up. I would like to think that he would have mentioned that!
It’s also possible @silverpop started adding that disclaimer to his listings because of the issues with the shipment to @ponderit.
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I don't think so since the recent testimonials are for older transactions. @CoinHoarder has transactions going back to 2019. Scroll up.
I agreed to NO terms regarding shipping / potential problems with the PO, there were none in his listing,
There was nothing stated in his post regarding shipping or insurance, just that he would only accept a personal check (my antenna should have gone up right then, my fault). He also listed the price and a couple of pictures. I offered him $110. He accepted. I didn't inquire about insurance because insurance protects him, not me. I expected the package to get here. When it did not I was courteous and not pressing but did let him know. He could also see that on the USPS tracking. After a week or so I asked about insurance thinking that if this continued to go sideways, if insured he would probably be able to file a claim, get reimbursed for the coins and we could both be made whole. He said the it wasn't insured and after that he no longer communicated with me, either by PM or email, completely ignored me. When I saw his post showing off his new Morgan purchase I knew he was still alive so I took the opportunity with my post to try to get his attention.
I know I'm not getting my money back. I realized that weeks ago. If nothing else now it looks like when he lists a coin at least he'll be adding his shipping disclaimer. If he had had that language on the listing that I responded to I would have never even reached out to him with an offer.
I'm glad some of you have had good transactions with Colin, I did not. If he would have reimbursed me as I had asked him too several times, only to be ignored, this would have all been a non-issue.
Bill
While not certain, I am "think" that legally, the seller is responsible until the buyer is in possession regardless of terms.
I suspect this could go to small claims court. (not sure of the jurisdiction). Would be fun if you were a lawyer.
@judgeJudy
Martin
@ponderit 's position was quite clear from the beginning, and he has summarized it again here. There is no reason for anyone to be confused about the situation.
The seller did not insure the package, it was lost in the mail, and they refused any communication on it. That last part is as disturbing as anything.
I keep hearing how his coins are very reasonably priced, so there is obviously a little room to increase the price enough to cover insurance. The problem is, he believes he has no moral or legal obligations in regard to delivery. He provides a tracking number and he thinks that is the extent of his responsibility.
I believe that his beefed up disclaimers are a direct result of these threads.
Years ago when I was living overseas I ordered a $10 coin from the US. I declined insurance because of the cost. The coin never arrived, the seller still wanted to reimburse me, but I told him no, since I had specifically taken on the risk. Others here have indicated that they take a similar approach, but that doesn't change the disturbing behavior or attitude of this seller.
CT deleted my post to this link.
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dbldie, I've never been smart enough to be an attorney, and I'm not a lawsuit kind of guy
In response to @jmlanzaf's supposition that the listing must have contained a shipping disclaimer, if it did don't you think silverpop would have been all over the thread. He was not. And as I mentioned earlier, if it did I would have never even made an offer.
I made no such supposition. Several forum regulars indicated that @silverpop BST listings have a had that disclaimer going back years. I simply indicated that IF that were true, the story is quite different. [Unfortunately, silverpop deletes the listings when they sell, so we'll never know for certain. ]
Since you called me out, I will say that I have a problem with this public bashing.
...
I'm relatively sure the terms don't say "I get to keep your money whether you get the item or not"...
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I would be curious if he had an ebay account and if ebay allowed the same stipulations that he is enforcing on the BST.
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1. Free shipping = FOB Destination.
(Cost of shipping is inclusive of the price of the coin)
FOB Destination, the seller is responsible until coin is delivered to buyer's door step and received. Seller is responsible to make buyer whole if coin is lost or damaged during shipping.
2. Separate line/cost for shipping = FOB Origin.
(cost of shipping is in addition to or exclusive to the price of the coin).
FOB Origin, seller's responsibility passes to the buyer once the coin is in the shipper's possession. Also, becomes the buyer's responsibility to file any claim with shipper if package not received or item is damaged.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOB_(shipping)
For obvious reasons FOB Destination is the preferred method as a buyer.
It all depends on shipping terms, which should correlate to how shipping costs were charged and paid for e.g. inclusive or exclusive of the coin(s) price.
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Where I come from it’s the sellers responsibility to make sure the buyer receives the item. If not the buyer should be made whole. It’s just as simple as that. @ponderit has said he did NOT agree to any deal like you have mentioned. The seller doesn’t have a good leg to stand on. No matter how you look at it it’s completely wrong. I think anyone that would agree to a deal like mentioned @CoinHoarder is going to go broke fast cause there are people that are just thieves at heart.
This kinda deal would NEVER fly on eBay so what’s the difference here on BST besides no one to enforce the right thing to do?
This deal @ponderit has to eat dirt.
It’s stinks so damn bad I need a respirator!
My humble opinion.
What happened? Last time I checked this thread, it was mostly unanimous that Colin should "make it right." Now there's a bunch of flip flopping.. IMO, this is still wrong on every level. Colin's moral behavior of not making this right and outright awful communication completely ignoring Bill is far beyond being okay! Just because it worked out for some members, doesn't make it okay to screw Bill! JMHO
According to at least two posters (I can't know), the terms say that shipping is at the buyer's risk. I would be interested in hearing from others who have done business with him as to whether that was his standard practice.
It really comes down to what the terms were at the time of the sale. IF IF IF the terms are "shipping at buyer's risk", it is a very different story.
NOTE:
1. I don't know. I've never done business with him.
2. That doesn't mean that Colin is either nice, a good communicator, etc.
But if I accept the risk of shipping, it's not really fair for me to shift it later. [IF IF IF that's what happened.]
I NEVER would have done business under either term (check payment or assuming the risk myself). However, to me, it does matter what the ORIGINAL terms were and what was agreed to. @CoinHoarder says that Colin has been specifying that shipping risk is the buyer's going back to 2019. If true, doesn't that make this a different kettle of fish?
It appears that Colin may have selectively added that disclaimer to some listings, and not others. Based on the original account of Ponderit, of whom we have no reason to question, and the lack of defense by Colin in the thread, it was apparent to me that the disclaimer was not present in the listing. If that were the case, Colin could have told him flat out that those were the terms he agreed to, rather than ignore 7 or 8 pms before making his account private.
As you previously stated, it is unfortunate that Colin deleted the BST post, which in this case would have helped had the disclosure been there to begin with, which imo is annoying in its own right. I don't see how it serves anyone to wipe a listing entirely, its one thing if you want to remove the price but I'm of the opinion that BST listings should remain in tact for posterity and situations such as this one.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
As I've mentioned more than once, if Colin had stipulated his delivery limitations in his original post I would have never even thought about making an offer, plain and simple. The point of my original post was borne out of frustration for his lack of communication and the hope to save someone else the same. I'd already written the $$ off as lost at the time of the post so I had nothing to gain.
There are a lot of people here that could attest to the fact that I've bought coins from them, some fairly high end (for me) and to the fact that I pay very quickly and don't cause them grief. I've never, ever had an issue here before.
You can believe me or not, I'm OK either way.
I'm puzzled by this. I have had many successful transactions with Colin. It would be a shame if this was not resolved amicably.
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
All I know is that the buyer here reached out to the seller and said seller can't even be bothered to try to do something as simple as searching with USPS from his end. The indifference and now flat out disappearance of the seller pretty much tells me what I need to know.
As an aside, the CT thread mentioned earlier has been poofed I believe.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012