Miami definitely shot it well after halftime. That will win you sone games.
I think our failure to properly call time outs and proactively stop any bleeding is a huge issue.
The players are cognizant the fact that Mazzulla doesn't do it. They say he lets them play through it. it is not good. Everyone understands that letting the team play through some struggles can have benefits, but it can't be your default settings.
@perkdog said: They really let Tatum be that guy and take charge in the 4th lol
How many shots did Tatum even have in the entire second half?
The refs gave the Celts some calls and they had a decent lead but again they don't have that killer instinct and stomp teams when they got them on the ropes.
But it's only game 1, I figured Miami would steal a game in Boston
Sometimes thats the price of having a deep team with plenty of players that can score.
Tatum & Brown have been 1A & 1B here for years
Brogdon & White were the guys on their previous teams,
Smart is the longest tenured Celtics playis player
Horford has been the best player on his team for most of his career.
They're all competitors who at times during the game (&4th) see plenty of chances to get by their guy to get a basket.
Tatum should have touched the ball more in that 4th quarter but if you watched the game then you saw that stretch where he gave it away three straight times, so saying that, we've seen it go both ways at times.
This team has plenty of killer instinct,if they didn't they wouldn't have won 65 of their 95 games played in this 2022-23 season and they wouldn't have made it this deep into the playoffs.
I mean,just go back 24hrs and all of Boston was talking about how they putaway Philly late in G6 and all of G7, there was plenty of killer instinct there.
@perkdog said: They really let Tatum be that guy and take charge in the 4th lol
How many shots did Tatum even have in the entire second half?
The refs gave the Celts some calls and they had a decent lead but again they don't have that killer instinct and stomp teams when they got them on the ropes.
But it's only game 1, I figured Miami would steal a game in Boston
Sometimes thats the price of having a deep team with plenty of players that can score.
Tatum & Brown have been 1A & 1B here for years
Brogdon & White were the guys on their previous teams,
Smart is the longest tenured Celtics playis player
Horford has been the best player on his team for most of his career.
They're all competitors who at times during the game (&4th) see plenty of chances to get by their guy to get a basket.
Tatum should have touched the ball more in that 4th quarter but if you watched the game then you saw that stretch where he gave it away three straight times, so saying that, we've seen it go both ways at times.
This team has plenty of killer instinct,if they didn't they wouldn't have won 65 of their 90 games played in this 2022-23 season and they wouldn't have made it this deep into the playoffs.
I mean,just go back 24hrs and all of Boston was talking about how they putaway Philly late in G6 and all of G7, there was plenty of killer instinct there.
It gets foggy when you see them lose after having 10 poi.t plus leads in crucial games
@olb31 said:
1) Butler can only score when he goes right or shoots from the right.
2) The celtics are taller at every position. anyone ever heard of posting up? Tatum is 4 inches taller than the guy that guards him. Horford same thing.
3) Smart just is not very smart. Very loose with the ball, average ball handler below average shooter. Puts no pressure on the defense.
4) Defensive scheme didn't work. way out of position practically the whole second half.
5) got to play the bench more. Hauser, Marcala (or whatever his name his) and Pritchard are all great shooters. Puts pressure on the defense.
6) force miami to play defense on the block. They are smaller and quicker.
1) Assuming they just defend his right is much easier said than done. He's a bigtime player and the defense has to react to him not the other way around.
2) Honestly that is just a horrible take. Boston came into the game averaging 46 points in the paint per game, last night they scored 62. Just posting up was not the problem.
3) Another horrible take, Smart finished with 11 assists to just 2 turnovers and neither of the 2 TOS came in the 4th with the game on the line. Your hate for this guy is hilarious,he's not the reason why Boston lost last night.
4.) Bingo!. This is why they lost last night.
5.) Just playing the bench doesn't guarantee a win. I agree that Hauser,Muscala & Pritchard are all great shooters but do you know who else is? Brogdon,Horford & White who actually played and should be taking more threes. Those three bench guys can shoot but they'll give the points right back on the other end. I love PP but asking him to defend Jimmy Butler is crazy.
6) Again another horrible take. Boston had a layup line going right thru that Maimi defense all night scoring 62 points in the paint. How do you force a defense to play on the block when they're letting you score at will at the rim? Spoelstra obviously gave us the rim if it meant we weren't going to shoot a million threes and it worked out great for them with the win.
@perkdog said: They really let Tatum be that guy and take charge in the 4th lol
How many shots did Tatum even have in the entire second half?
The refs gave the Celts some calls and they had a decent lead but again they don't have that killer instinct and stomp teams when they got them on the ropes.
But it's only game 1, I figured Miami would steal a game in Boston
Sometimes thats the price of having a deep team with plenty of players that can score.
Tatum & Brown have been 1A & 1B here for years
Brogdon & White were the guys on their previous teams,
Smart is the longest tenured Celtics playis player
Horford has been the best player on his team for most of his career.
They're all competitors who at times during the game (&4th) see plenty of chances to get by their guy to get a basket.
Tatum should have touched the ball more in that 4th quarter but if you watched the game then you saw that stretch where he gave it away three straight times, so saying that, we've seen it go both ways at times.
This team has plenty of killer instinct,if they didn't they wouldn't have won 65 of their 90 games played in this 2022-23 season and they wouldn't have made it this deep into the playoffs.
I mean,just go back 24hrs and all of Boston was talking about how they putaway Philly late in G6 and all of G7, there was plenty of killer instinct there.
It gets foggy when you see them lose after having 10 poi.t plus leads in crucial games
It does but that happens to every team in the NBA. The old cliche is Basketball is a game of runs and with how the 3pt shot plays such a huge part in this era compared to previous ones, no lead is really safe these days.
You can erase a 10pt lead in literally 30-40 seconds with three stops on defense then three made 3's on the other,Its why you're never really out of a game unless your coach decides to throw in the towel at a certain point.
If that lead was in quarters 1-3 then its really not that big of a deal but if it happens midway/late in the 4th then I'd agree that its really a problem. Boston's problem wasn't blowing that lead,it was giving up 46 points in one quarter, can't do that and expect to win.
@perkdog said: They really let Tatum be that guy and take charge in the 4th lol
How many shots did Tatum even have in the entire second half?
The refs gave the Celts some calls and they had a decent lead but again they don't have that killer instinct and stomp teams when they got them on the ropes.
But it's only game 1, I figured Miami would steal a game in Boston
Sometimes thats the price of having a deep team with plenty of players that can score.
Tatum & Brown have been 1A & 1B here for years
Brogdon & White were the guys on their previous teams,
Smart is the longest tenured Celtics playis player
Horford has been the best player on his team for most of his career.
They're all competitors who at times during the game (&4th) see plenty of chances to get by their guy to get a basket.
Tatum should have touched the ball more in that 4th quarter but if you watched the game then you saw that stretch where he gave it away three straight times, so saying that, we've seen it go both ways at times.
This team has plenty of killer instinct,if they didn't they wouldn't have won 65 of their 90 games played in this 2022-23 season and they wouldn't have made it this deep into the playoffs.
I mean,just go back 24hrs and all of Boston was talking about how they putaway Philly late in G6 and all of G7, there was plenty of killer instinct there.
It gets foggy when you see them lose after having 10 poi.t plus leads in crucial games
It does but that happens to every team in the NBA. The old cliche is Basketball is a game of runs and with how the 3pt shot plays such a huge part in this era compared to previous ones, no lead is really safe these days.
You can erase a 10pt lead in literally 30-40 seconds with three stops on defense then three made 3's on the other,Its why you're never really out of a game unless your coach decides to throw in the towel at a certain point.
If that lead was in quarters 1-3 then its really not that big of a deal but if it happens midway/late in the 4th then I'd agree that its really a problem. Boston's problem wasn't blowing that lead,it was giving up 46 points in one quarter, can't do that and expect to win.
@perkdog said: They really let Tatum be that guy and take charge in the 4th lol
How many shots did Tatum even have in the entire second half?
The refs gave the Celts some calls and they had a decent lead but again they don't have that killer instinct and stomp teams when they got them on the ropes.
But it's only game 1, I figured Miami would steal a game in Boston
Sometimes thats the price of having a deep team with plenty of players that can score.
Tatum & Brown have been 1A & 1B here for years
Brogdon & White were the guys on their previous teams,
Smart is the longest tenured Celtics playis player
Horford has been the best player on his team for most of his career.
They're all competitors who at times during the game (&4th) see plenty of chances to get by their guy to get a basket.
Tatum should have touched the ball more in that 4th quarter but if you watched the game then you saw that stretch where he gave it away three straight times, so saying that, we've seen it go both ways at times.
This team has plenty of killer instinct,if they didn't they wouldn't have won 65 of their 90 games played in this 2022-23 season and they wouldn't have made it this deep into the playoffs.
I mean,just go back 24hrs and all of Boston was talking about how they putaway Philly late in G6 and all of G7, there was plenty of killer instinct there.
It gets foggy when you see them lose after having 10 poi.t plus leads in crucial games
It does but that happens to every team in the NBA. The old cliche is Basketball is a game of runs and with how the 3pt shot plays such a huge part in this era compared to previous ones, no lead is really safe these days.
You can erase a 10pt lead in literally 30-40 seconds with three stops on defense then three made 3's on the other,Its why you're never really out of a game unless your coach decides to throw in the towel at a certain point.
If that lead was in quarters 1-3 then its really not that big of a deal but if it happens midway/late in the 4th then I'd agree that its really a problem. Boston's problem wasn't blowing that lead,it was giving up 46 points in one quarter, can't do that and expect to win.
Fair points
I tried editing my original comment to you and it went poof lol. They've played a total of 95 games not 90 so far.
@perkdog said: They really let Tatum be that guy and take charge in the 4th lol
How many shots did Tatum even have in the entire second half?
The refs gave the Celts some calls and they had a decent lead but again they don't have that killer instinct and stomp teams when they got them on the ropes.
But it's only game 1, I figured Miami would steal a game in Boston
Sometimes thats the price of having a deep team with plenty of players that can score.
Tatum & Brown have been 1A & 1B here for years
Brogdon & White were the guys on their previous teams,
Smart is the longest tenured Celtics playis player
Horford has been the best player on his team for most of his career.
They're all competitors who at times during the game (&4th) see plenty of chances to get by their guy to get a basket.
Tatum should have touched the ball more in that 4th quarter but if you watched the game then you saw that stretch where he gave it away three straight times, so saying that, we've seen it go both ways at times.
This team has plenty of killer instinct,if they didn't they wouldn't have won 65 of their 90 games played in this 2022-23 season and they wouldn't have made it this deep into the playoffs.
I mean,just go back 24hrs and all of Boston was talking about how they putaway Philly late in G6 and all of G7, there was plenty of killer instinct there.
It gets foggy when you see them lose after having 10 poi.t plus leads in crucial games
It does but that happens to every team in the NBA. The old cliche is Basketball is a game of runs and with how the 3pt shot plays such a huge part in this era compared to previous ones, no lead is really safe these days.
You can erase a 10pt lead in literally 30-40 seconds with three stops on defense then three made 3's on the other,Its why you're never really out of a game unless your coach decides to throw in the towel at a certain point.
If that lead was in quarters 1-3 then its really not that big of a deal but if it happens midway/late in the 4th then I'd agree that its really a problem. Boston's problem wasn't blowing that lead,it was giving up 46 points in one quarter, can't do that and expect to win.
Fair points
I tried editing my original comment to you and it went poof lol. They've played a total of 95 games not 90 so far.
Well 95 or 90 games, your point rings true regardless
For the sake of argument, do you agree that Tatum needs to get it together more as far as maturity goes? I really do think his emotions get the best of him more times than not
Erik has some good points, as long as he is talking about the first half. The second half was totally different.
1) With Smart not being a scorer it allows his man to slump off and help with Brown and Tatum and as you saw they got off about 15 - 20 less three pointers because of it. He's not a good passer. Just saying he didn't the turn the ball over x amount times doesn't mean he did anything good. Most of assists were in the first half. he barely showed up in the second half, especially on defense.
2) Just because they did well in the first half scoring in the paint doesn't mean you stop. Starting in the third quarter they stopped.
3) Boston was voted on having the best bench in the NBA. Why run the starters in the ground game after game if they have a surplus of good players. Certainly they aren't as good as the starters, but the starters will play better when they are fresh and putting in 3 sharp shooters will force Miami's hand on defense. they can't just leave those guys open. And defensively they couldn't have done any worse than starters did. Miami broke their all-time quarter scoring record for a playoff game.
@perkdog said: They really let Tatum be that guy and take charge in the 4th lol
How many shots did Tatum even have in the entire second half?
The refs gave the Celts some calls and they had a decent lead but again they don't have that killer instinct and stomp teams when they got them on the ropes.
But it's only game 1, I figured Miami would steal a game in Boston
Sometimes thats the price of having a deep team with plenty of players that can score.
Tatum & Brown have been 1A & 1B here for years
Brogdon & White were the guys on their previous teams,
Smart is the longest tenured Celtics playis player
Horford has been the best player on his team for most of his career.
They're all competitors who at times during the game (&4th) see plenty of chances to get by their guy to get a basket.
Tatum should have touched the ball more in that 4th quarter but if you watched the game then you saw that stretch where he gave it away three straight times, so saying that, we've seen it go both ways at times.
This team has plenty of killer instinct,if they didn't they wouldn't have won 65 of their 90 games played in this 2022-23 season and they wouldn't have made it this deep into the playoffs.
I mean,just go back 24hrs and all of Boston was talking about how they putaway Philly late in G6 and all of G7, there was plenty of killer instinct there.
It gets foggy when you see them lose after having 10 poi.t plus leads in crucial games
It does but that happens to every team in the NBA. The old cliche is Basketball is a game of runs and with how the 3pt shot plays such a huge part in this era compared to previous ones, no lead is really safe these days.
You can erase a 10pt lead in literally 30-40 seconds with three stops on defense then three made 3's on the other,Its why you're never really out of a game unless your coach decides to throw in the towel at a certain point.
If that lead was in quarters 1-3 then its really not that big of a deal but if it happens midway/late in the 4th then I'd agree that its really a problem. Boston's problem wasn't blowing that lead,it was giving up 46 points in one quarter, can't do that and expect to win.
Fair points
I tried editing my original comment to you and it went poof lol. They've played a total of 95 games not 90 so far.
Well 95 or 90 games, your point rings true regardless
For the sake of argument, do you agree that Tatum needs to get it together more as far as maturity goes? I really do think his emotions get the best of him more times than not
Maturing how though? Barking at the refs all game? Yes. Maturing into a player with killer instinct? Again,he has killer instinct already,we just saw him win the previous two games using it. At the age of 25,he's still a work in progress. He just didn't play well late in that game,it happens, even with the greatest of players.
In the LA-Denver game the night before,Lebron had the ball with 20ish seconds left in the game down by 5. He was literally 3ft from the basket with the ball,had he scored it would have been a one possession game. He turned it over and they lose.
You can look like a GOAT one day and the goat the next,it happens.
@perkdog another comment went poof after an edit. This freakin place lol.
Maturing how though? Barking at the refs all game? Yes. Maturing into a player with killer instinct? Again,he has killer instinct already,we just saw him win the previous two games using it. At the age of 25,he's still a work in progress. He just didn't play well late in that game,it happens, even with the greatest of players.
In the LA-Denver game the night before,Lebron had the ball with 20ish seconds left in the game down by 5. He was literally 3ft from the basket with the ball,had he scored it would have been a one possession game. He turned it over and they lose.
You can look like a GOAT one day and the goat the next,it happens.
@olb31 said:
Erik has some good points, as long as he is talking about the first half. The second half was totally different.
1) With Smart not being a scorer it allows his man to slump off and help with Brown and Tatum and as you saw they got off about 15 - 20 less three pointers because of it. He's not a good passer. Just saying he didn't the turn the ball over x amount times doesn't mean he did anything good. Most of assists were in the first half. he barely showed up in the second half, especially on defense.
2) Just because they did well in the first half scoring in the paint doesn't mean you stop. Starting in the third quarter they stopped.
3) Boston was voted on having the best bench in the NBA. Why run the starters in the ground game after game if they have a surplus of good players. Certainly they aren't as good as the starters, but the starters will play better when they are fresh and putting in 3 sharp shooters will force Miami's hand on defense. they can't just leave those guys open. And defensively they couldn't have done any worse than starters did. Miami broke their all-time quarter scoring record for a playoff game.
1) that has NOTHING to do with Marcus Smart and the Boston Celtics not shooting more threes last night. Go back and look at that 3rd quarter,he scored 8 of Boston's 25pts, had one asist,one turnover and one block before coming out at the 2:32 mark. Stop trying to justify your hate for this guy with unrelated scenarios.
2) Cmon dude do I really need to spell it out for you? Their made FG/FG attempts in the 2nd half were less because they fell behind in the 3rd quarter. Started it with a 9pt lead then finished it down 12 so they started taking more threes to try getting back in it. Even then, they were still killing it in the paint in that second half making 11/17 FGs. Again, the problem was Miami was willing to give up twos instead of threes and its very hard cutting into leads these days when you're not taking/making threes.
3) its the playoffs where every team shortens their rotation. Boston has great players at 6-8 who are Brogdon,White(or Timelord depending on who starts) and Grant Williams. That is why people think that their bench is one of the best. Its because they have a few players who would start elsewhere.
After that is a bunch of players who can look great at times during the regular season but who all come with flaws that opposing teams can exploit in the playoffs. Being this deep in the playoffs your margin for error is very very thin. Our problem in that 3rd quarter wasn't scoring points it was preventing the other team from scoring.
Th C's could have really used some threes from PP/Hauser/Muscala, but you also need to get stops at the same time to cut into that lead and these guys are just not good defenders at all.
We just watched firsthand what it was like bringing in just one of them in Pritchard,He didn't hit a single three and I know Butler scored on him but not sure who else did. in his 12mins he finished with a -3 meaning Boston got oustscored by 3pts while he was in the game. I'm as big of a Pritchard fan there is but if he's not making threes,he's not really helping the team at all. The same goes for Hauser & Muscala as well.
@erikthredd said: @perkdog another comment went poof after an edit. This freakin place lol.
Maturing how though? Barking at the refs all game? Yes. Maturing into a player with killer instinct? Again,he has killer instinct already,we just saw him win the previous two games using it. At the age of 25,he's still a work in progress. He just didn't play well late in that game,it happens, even with the greatest of players.
In the LA-Denver game the night before,Lebron had the ball with 20ish seconds left in the game down by 5. He was literally 3ft from the basket with the ball,had he scored it would have been a one possession game. He turned it over and they lose.
You can look like a GOAT one day and the goat the next,it happens.
Maybe I'm being too hard on Tatum idk, I like the guy and I think he is an elite player so don't get me wrong, I guess I kind of expect our best player to act like Jimmy Butler? Butler stays emotionless through the entire game after he drains a 3 or misses a layup, Tatum is 24/5 and Butler is 33 so I guess it's an unfair judgment on Tatum maybe
@erikthredd said: @perkdog another comment went poof after an edit. This freakin place lol.
Maturing how though? Barking at the refs all game? Yes. Maturing into a player with killer instinct? Again,he has killer instinct already,we just saw him win the previous two games using it. At the age of 25,he's still a work in progress. He just didn't play well late in that game,it happens, even with the greatest of players.
In the LA-Denver game the night before,Lebron had the ball with 20ish seconds left in the game down by 5. He was literally 3ft from the basket with the ball,had he scored it would have been a one possession game. He turned it over and they lose.
You can look like a GOAT one day and the goat the next,it happens.
Maybe I'm being too hard on Tatum idk, I like the guy and I think he is an elite player so don't get me wrong, I guess I kind of expect our best player to act like Jimmy Butler? Butler stays emotionless through the entire game after he drains a 3 or misses a layup, Tatum is 24/5 and Butler is 33 so I guess it's an unfair judgment on Tatum maybe
We can be hard on Tatum at times and where he's the guy on this team making the big bucks that goes with the territory BUT i will say that he's only 25yrs old and we need to remember that. It took me forever to get this point across to theshow but guys his age usually don't lead teams to titles in the NBA. The only ones that do are the elite of the elite all time greats like Bird,Magic,Tim Duncan,Bill Walton,Bill Russell. Kobe won rings when he was young but he was the clear #2 behind Shaq.
I'm sure I'm forgetting a few other great.
Jordan & Lebron had plenty of playoff failures before finally winning rings in their early 30's. Lebron had the same knock as Tatum has now that he didn't have that killer instinct,it finally went away once he won his first ring in Miami.
Tatum isn't in that group obviously and at this point he's not really done enough to make it to the HOF yet but he's certainly on his way.
You've already made my point about Butler,he's much older but even then,Tatum at this age is so far ahead of Butler was when he was 25yrs old and Butler was nowhere close to the late game assassin that he's become.
You probably won't remember this but there was a 2-3 year stretch where Jimmy Butler was the new hot commodity on the trade market during his last two seasons in Chicago before he was due to hit free agency. There were many rumors about Danny Ainge shipping out Smart,Brown,other players plus future picks that would have included the one that turned into Jayson Tatum for Butler but Ainge never pulled the trigger.
Fast forward to the first round of the 2016-17 playoffs where Boston was playing Chicago.The Bulls were led by Jimmy Butler,Dwyane Wade & Rajon Rondo,the C's had IT,Horford and a bunch of role players.
The night before the playoffs started Isaiah Thomas's sister died in a car crash and instead of taking time out to mourn he decided to play (he was also about to be a FA after the playoffs and was expecting his first real big payday.) The C's lost both games 1 & 2 in Boston where IT was visibly crying on the sidelines throughout both games,it was honestly really tough to watch. To add injury to insult IT also got hurt but kept playing, Rondo also got hurt for the Bulls and his playoffs was over so
The Bulls have a 2-0 lead with the series heading to back to Chicago for the next two games. Between everything that IT was going thru and the Bulls having arguably the two best players in the series,it should have been a wrap for Chicago yet they lost the next four games ending their season. Jimmy Butler,this ultimate closer in 2023, and Wade, a former FMVP, couldn't close out that series when they had everything in their favor. Butler was 27 at the time.
@erikthredd said: @perkdog another comment went poof after an edit. This freakin place lol.
Maturing how though? Barking at the refs all game? Yes. Maturing into a player with killer instinct? Again,he has killer instinct already,we just saw him win the previous two games using it. At the age of 25,he's still a work in progress. He just didn't play well late in that game,it happens, even with the greatest of players.
In the LA-Denver game the night before,Lebron had the ball with 20ish seconds left in the game down by 5. He was literally 3ft from the basket with the ball,had he scored it would have been a one possession game. He turned it over and they lose.
You can look like a GOAT one day and the goat the next,it happens.
Maybe I'm being too hard on Tatum idk, I like the guy and I think he is an elite player so don't get me wrong, I guess I kind of expect our best player to act like Jimmy Butler? Butler stays emotionless through the entire game after he drains a 3 or misses a layup, Tatum is 24/5 and Butler is 33 so I guess it's an unfair judgment on Tatum maybe
We can be hard on Tatum at times and where he's the guy on this team making the big bucks that goes with the territory BUT i will say that he's only 25yrs old and we need to remember that. It took me forever to get this point across to theshow but guys his age usually don't lead teams to titles in the NBA. The only ones that do are the elite of the elite all time greats like Bird,Magic,Tim Duncan,Bill Walton,Bill Russell. Kobe won rings when he was young but he was the clear #2 behind Shaq.
I'm sure I'm forgetting a few other great.
Jordan & Lebron had plenty of playoff failures before finally winning rings in their early 30's. Lebron had the same knock as Tatum has now that he didn't have that killer instinct,it finally went away once he won his first ring in Miami.
Tatum isn't in that group obviously and at this point he's not really done enough to make it to the HOF yet but he's certainly on his way.
You've already made my point about Butler,he's much older but even then,Tatum at this age is so far ahead of Butler was when he was 25yrs old and Butler was nowhere close to the late game assassin that he's become.
You probably won't remember this but there was a 2-3 year stretch where Jimmy Butler was the new hot commodity on the trade market during his last two seasons in Chicago before he was due to hit free agency. There were many rumors about Danny Ainge shipping out Smart,Brown,other players plus future picks that would have included the one that turned into Jayson Tatum for Butler but Ainge never pulled the trigger.
Fast forward to the first round of the 2016-17 playoffs where Boston was playing Chicago.The Bulls were led by Jimmy Butler,Dwyane Wade & Rajon Rondo,the C's had IT,Horford and a bunch of role players.
The night before the playoffs started Isaiah Thomas's sister died in a car crash and instead of taking time out to mourn he decided to play (he was also about to be a FA after the playoffs and was expecting his first real big payday.) The C's lost both games 1 & 2 in Boston where IT was visibly crying on the sidelines throughout both games,it was honestly really tough to watch. To add injury to insult IT also got hurt but kept playing, Rondo also got hurt for the Bulls and his playoffs was over so
The Bulls have a 2-0 lead with the series heading to back to Chicago for the next two games. Between everything that IT was going thru and the Bulls having arguably the two best players in the series,it should have been a wrap for Chicago yet they lost the next four games ending their season. Jimmy Butler,this ultimate closer in 2023, and Wade, a former FMVP, couldn't close out that series when they had everything in their favor. Butler was 27 at the time.
Great post, I should let you know that I literally have not followed the Celtics much less the NBA at all pretty much ever until the Draft Kings app came out, now that I bet on the games occasionally I have been more into it overall.
I do have good memories of watching Bird, Jordan back.in the day but I never got into it like the Pats and Sox
A lot of great comments guys. I just read through today's stuff. I enjoyed myself and I'm excited for this game tonight. Like I said, cone the final game of the Boston Miami series, this thread should be nothing but 🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗
i gave up on boston. poor defense, poor passing, poor shooting, just plain overrated. coach is in over his head. don't see brown returning to this mess.
@olb31 said:
i gave up on boston. poor defense, poor passing, poor shooting, just plain overrated. coach is in over his head. don't see brown returning to this mess.
The worst part is they gave Mazzulla a multi-year deal before seeing him coach in the playoffs. The deep bench has played better than the starers tonight,
@SanctionII said:
Nothing went right for the Celtics tonight.
This has got to be extremely frustrating for Celtic fans.
At least they can take solace in the fact that the Lakers are also down 0-3 against Denver and will likely not advance to the finals.
Even if Boston had won tonight I really believe that Denver is winning it all anyways. Although it is ensuring knowing that LA probably won't get to 18 before us for at least this season.
Tatum - while making first team all nba two seasons in row, he just doesn't look like one of the top 5 players in the league. Speed, ball handling, Shooting, passing are all kind of average to me. Needs to play more inside and use his size.
R. Williams - hurt a lot. Needs to post people up and use his jumping ability to get 5 foot in shoots
Smart - is a role player, IMO. 15 - 18 minutes per game
PP - Should start and play about 24 minutes per game.
Horford - role player, 15 minutes off the bench
Brown - almost same as Tatum but a little quicker.
Hauser - should play 15 - 18 per game
Griffin - should play about 8 per game
White should start and play 30+ per game.
Brogdon - 25 -30 per game (could start)
Muscala (sp) - 15 -18 off the bench.
Celtics just don't have enough knock down shooter unless they play pp, hauser and Muscala. In my opinion this is what playing time should look like every game.
@thisistheshow said:
A lot of great comments guys. I just read through today's stuff. I enjoyed myself and I'm excited for this game tonight. Like I said, cone the final game of the Boston Miami series, this thread should be nothing but 🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗
....
I'm calling myself out for this kind of exaggerated confidence. 👎👎🤣
@thisistheshow said:
A lot of great comments guys. I just read through today's stuff. I enjoyed myself and I'm excited for this game tonight. Like I said, cone the final game of the Boston Miami series, this thread should be nothing but 🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗
....
I'm calling myself out for this kind of exaggerated confidence. 👎👎🤣
After watching them all season long, I had a bad feeling about the odds makers putting so much confidence in the celtics. They just don't look like a championship team and are lacking real leaders.
@thisistheshow said:
A lot of great comments guys. I just read through today's stuff. I enjoyed myself and I'm excited for this game tonight. Like I said, cone the final game of the Boston Miami series, this thread should be nothing but 🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗
....
I'm calling myself out for this kind of exaggerated confidence. 👎👎🤣
After watching them all season long, I had a bad feeling about the odds makers putting so much confidence in the celtics. They just don't look like a championship team and are lacking real leaders.
They've never played well as the favorite, i guess its much easier to play the they don't respect us card than it is to carry the weight of wearing that crown except they've never won that crown.
They honestly have enough knock down shooters, they're either just not hitting them right now in Horford & Brogdon or they're not giving any meaningful minutes to PP & Hauser.
Horford was 2nd in the NBA in 3pt% going from 44% to 29% in the playoffs.
Brogdon ranked 4th overall during the year going from 44% to 25% in this series.
When they play PP & Hauser play they need to make an effort to get them some 3pt attempts or what's the point of even putting them out there?Mazzulla isn't playing Hauser & Pritchard because they might get exposed on the defensive end. Maybe its time to stop playing the switch everything defense and let them just cover the opposing team man to man. That way we won't see Pritchard,Brogdon & White getting scored on repeatedly by Butler & Bam after Miami seeks out those types of mismatch.
I really think Grant is about to playout his last game in Boston. He turned down their extension offer in the offseason saying that he thought he was worth more then he hasn't shown that he's worth that 16-20M/yr type of extension. Between his constantly lying on the court faking injuries and pouting to the refs all game,i'm thinking the team has had enough with his antics. Its a shame because he a very versatile defnder,can hit his threes and he seems like the perfect player to have on the bench for times when they face Giannis or Embiid. I could easily see teams like the Bucks,Knicks,Heat,Sixers or Cavs giving him an RFA offer that we won't match just to steal him away and use him in the same role when they face Giannis or Embiid.
I think the FO really screwed the pooch by making Mazzulla the permanent HC without seeing how he performs in the playoffs. After the team wasn't willing to just fire Udoka outright after suspending him because it would meant that they paid him the rest of his contract,they won't do the same with Joe on top of that just a handful of months later. From here its just hoping that he's learned from his mistakes,imo.
@thisistheshow said:
A lot of great comments guys. I just read through today's stuff. I enjoyed myself and I'm excited for this game tonight. Like I said, cone the final game of the Boston Miami series, this thread should be nothing but 🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗
....
I'm calling myself out for this kind of exaggerated confidence. 👎👎🤣
We got this,its only going to take four OT's in game 7 to get it done. 😉
@craig44 said:
pretty sad display last night. I wonder if they sign the 2 super max contracts or blow the thing up?
I would part ways with Smart White Grant. Get a good shooter and a high draft pick. Resign Jaylen.
Jaylen and Jayson are both great players but they need a good point guard to help them. Play Pritchard Muscala and Hauser a lot more. The coach did not use his bench to his advantage.
Jaylen
Jayson
Malcolm
Al
Robert
Peyton
Muscala
Hauser
Alabama rookie (forgot his name)
Dino
Then add a player (point guard) in a trade. Then get a good draft pick.
Not a fan of the 5 out offense unless you have several players who are quick enough to beat their man off the dribble. The Celtics, in this series, did not.
The Celtics and the Lakers can console themselves by the fact that given that they lost their respective conference final, at lease the other team also lost the other conference final.
Neither team has to fret about the other advancing the the NBA Finals and having a chance to win title #18 (thus breaking the 17 to 17 title tie that they currently are in).
It is also interesting to learn that with Miami advancing to the 2023 NBA Finals, Pat Riley has now (as a player, coach and GM) has been to to the NBA Finals 28 or 29 of the Finals played since 1970.
They need to either go after a 3rd star that is capable of hitting big shots/running an offense late in playoff games like a Dame Lillard/Bradley Beal OR they need to move some of their guard depth to balance out the roster. That would mean moving one of:
Smart, the best defender of the 3.
Brogdon, the best scorer.
or White,the best all around player of the 3.
If given the choice I'd move Brogdon. He was great as a scorer off the bench but he never really was able to create better shots for his teammates and our worst fear that we had after trading for him came true,he was hurt yet again when the team needed him most. Unfortunately that has been his MO since coming into the league.
Regardless of who does or doesn't get traded,with the new tax apron in the recently changed CBA its going to be much harder for teams to keep a deep,high paying roster like this Celtics team longterm. Before, you would see a team like GS just pay the insane amounts of tax dollars just to keep their core intact while surrounding them with capable role players but now teams over that apron are going to get penalized where they won't be able to trade future first round picks.
So its either:
1. Trade those picks now to add a 3rd star and basically roll with that team for the foreseeable future and just suffer whatever consequences that come your way from the league. You already gave away the 3-4 future 1sts to get that star and can't trade anymore for roughly 7 years anyways.
OR
2. Trim your salary down then take it year by year. You'd be making tough roster decisions while gutting your depth but so would every other high tax paying contender. Going this route puts a larger emphasis on drafting and free agent signings.
Overall,I think our worst problems are our offensive & defensive schemes that we continue to run even though these last two playoff runs have shown how ineffective they've been,especially late in games.
On offense Mazzulla has been all about spacing which is great when you're hitting your threes. When you're not and don't run any other type of scheme other than give it to your two stars and let them go ISO,we see results like we did throughout this series.
Not being able to beat a zone defense at the NBA level is really just sad,imo. Sure, the players deserve a portion of blame in this instance but as a head coach that is mostly on you for not having any type of plays to use in that situation. Miami has been going zone against us for years yet we haven't learned to just send one of Tatum,Brown or Horford right to the foul line and run the play through them.
Then on the defensive end its great to have all of these long athletic defenders that can switch 1-5 but there are times when the team should literally switch their defense up. The players have it ingrained in their heads to automatically make that switch on picks & rolls and 9 times out of 10 in the playoffs you're doing exactly what your opponent wants you to do. Whether its seeing a 6-4 guard down low trying to stop a guy who has 6-8inches/40-60lbs on him or one of our bigs hanging out at the 3pt line trying to chase around a much quicker guard/wing. ALso this is a huge reason why teams usually kill us on the offensive glass.
I don't know if seeing Tatum roll an ankle literally seconds into the game somewhat took some of the air out of the team but ,while he gutted it out, the effort for the most part just wasn't there.
Ime Udoka was far from being the perfect head coach here but he was able to get them to play all out on the defensive side during that second half of the season right thru the Finals. Mazzulla just doesn't seem like that type of coach.
With more experience he could grow into being that guy but with the salary/tax decisions this team needs to make in the very near future,do they really have time to let him learn on the job? I wouldn't take that chance.
No matter what they do they need to play the bench more. I agree with most everything you posted, but the last two years both coaches have asked the starters to play entirely too many minutes.
Absolutely. Ime deserves a little less blame on that because his bench was nowhere near as deep as Mazzulla's was and Joe shouldn't have waited until the Philly & Miami series were in jeopardy to finally call on his 8-10 guys. Ultimately I see them running it back with the addition of Gallo finally getting out there. The only real changes that we might see are Grant and/or Pritchard leaving which would be a bummer because they contribute when given the chance.
If there aren't any major changes then I'd like to see them add a 3rd rotational big that can rim run,defend & rebound and a long,defensive minded wing to come off the bench. Ideally that big could replicate some of what Timelord does if/when Rob's hurt while Hordford & Gallinari can still give you 3pt shooting from the 4.
They won't have the cap to get a good 3&D wing but just someone in the 6-6 to 6-8 range,who is quicker on D than Grant,that could come in defend someone like a Jimmy Butler,Caleb Martin or Duncan Robinson while our starting wings are either on the bench or covering someone else.
FInding a traditional point guard would also be great but, unless he's a star like Lillard or Beal,he'd never crack their top 8. Even then it wouldn't really matter anyways if the team doesn't change their offensive philosophy.
Not to takeaway from their lack of effort throughout most of this game,which wasn't there, they ended up dealing with:
Tatum rolling his ankle on the first play of the game.
Brogdon returning after missing G6 and was only able to play 7mins, missing the three shots that he took.
Rob Williams dealing with a stomach bug that had him puking throughout the entire game and was only able to play 14mins.
And Derrick White having a knee/leg injury that forced him out with just under 8mins left in the game.
Any team trying to comeback from a 0-3 deficit in a series is going to need some type of luck at some point and for a team that was fairly healthy throughout these entire playoffs, it looked like their luck finally ran out after that Derrick White game winner in G6.
Joe has no idea what he is doing (as a head coach). He needs more seasoning. He didn't take over the last place team, he took over the favorites. Way too much pressure for a first time head coach.
But I agree with you, that they need some pretty darn seasoned assistant coaches.
I hope they a make a deal or two to get a high draft choice. Lightened the salary cap load add a really good 19 or 20 year old. If they can't pay Brown, How about Brown to Charlotte for Terry and the 2nd pick? Celts can throw in there pick number 25 or so. Then trade Grant and Peyton to Utah for Kelly.
@olb31 said:
Joe has no idea what he is doing (as a head coach). He needs more seasoning. He didn't take over the last place team, he took over the favorites. Way too much pressure for a first time head coach.
But I agree with you, that they need some pretty darn seasoned assistant coaches.
I hope they a make a deal or two to get a high draft choice. Lightened the salary cap load add a really good 19 or 20 year old. If they can't pay Brown, How about Brown to Charlotte for Terry and the 2nd pick? Celts can throw in there pick number 25 or so. Then trade Grant and Peyton to Utah for Kelly.
I've been very critical of Joe over the past week but I'm also capable of looking at the overall big picture in regards to his rookie season as HC. He was put into a no-win situation unless he won the Finals. He wasn't able to bring in one single assistant that he could say was his guy. He was likely working with some of Ime's guys who possibly resented him for getting the interim job over them. Yet overall,he did a decent job in his first season at the front of the line even though it ended like it did.
I agree that there was way to much pressure for a first time head coach let alone any head coach, It is Boston,not everyone in the sports world can get the job done here and when they don't,we let them know it lol.
Once we heard that Brad was bringing Joe back, I've just decided to accept it and hope the guy shows improvement.
I'm not sure that a high draft choice is the right way to go when we're pretty much in Championship or bust mode. Any player at the Wing would rarely see playing time with Tatum & Brown out there and any guard drafted would be behind Smart,Brogdon,White,Pritchard and JD Davison,who showed decent playmaking skills in Maine.
They're going to pay Brown,I have no doubt it. The only way I see them not doing it is if he asks out and with that much money one the line he's not turning it down when he can't sign the supermax elsewhere. Once he signs it he can't be traded for one year.
But if for some reason they did end up trading him they could do much better than Rozier & #2. Terry is too much like the three guards we already platoon in MS/DW/MB, defensive minded who are very streaky on offense.
I like Olynyk but we're going to have Gallinari & Muscala who are both similar players who are slightly less versatile. Grant is a restricted free agent and would have to be part of a sign & trade for us to trade him. He's likely going to get offers that put his salary in Kelly's range if not over it and with a S&T we might be able to do better than Kelly.
I wouldn't move Pritchard until we know if they're definitely keeping all three guards ahead of him on the depth chart or not.
He really just wants playing time and he's too good of a shooter to just trade because he asked for it.
nice thoughts erik. I was thinking they would need to trade someone because of the cap. The top rookie draft pick, while maybe not 100% ready, would be making a sixth of what Brown may make. I think Brown is top notch player, but he's not really exceptional at anything. Shooting is good, dribbling is average, passing is average, rebounding is below average (he's a guard), above average on defense, but turns the ball over a little too much.
I used Rozier's name mainly because I don't know who all they have, but they do have the second pick. If they could get Ball, that would be perfect, he is an excellent point guard. Ball and #2?
@olb31 said:
nice thoughts erik. I was thinking they would need to trade someone because of the cap. The top rookie draft pick, while maybe not 100% ready, would be making a sixth of what Brown may make. I think Brown is top notch player, but he's not really exceptional at anything. Shooting is good, dribbling is average, passing is average, rebounding is below average (he's a guard), above average on defense, but turns the ball over a little too much.
I used Rozier's name mainly because I don't know who all they have, but they do have the second pick. If they could get Ball, that would be perfect, he is an excellent point guard. Ball and #2?
Where Charlotte isn't contending anytime soon tading Ball for Brown really wouldn't make much sense for them, for basically the same reasons you just mentioned. Ball makes the players around him better and he's still signed for two more seasons at 1/3rd of Jaylens's salary. That being said Michael Jordan has been horrible running that franchise so who knows what he would do.
If Joe expands our offense and Tatum keeps growing as a facilitator we won't need to see Brown in that role he tried playing in G7 that often. That really was a case of everything that could go wrong did. Tatum & Brogdon hurt,the offense couldn't hit a three and the defense knew Brown would try taking over so they made him dribble through traffic whenever they could.
There is definitely some sticker shock in regards to the pricetag on his next contract but I wouldn't give up on him just yet. Once the next NBA TV deal kicks in raising the salary cap considerably,those Tatum & Brown contracts will go from 70% of their cap back to around what it is now,in the 50-60% range. The front office will just need to adjust to the new tax apron between now & then.
@SanctionII said:
How about Boston trading Jalen Brown and Malcolm Brogdan to GS for Draymond Green and Jonathan Kuminga?
🤣😂🤣
Outside of there being a difference of roughly 20+M in making the deal match (Brown 28M/Brogdon 22 vs Green 25/Kuminga 5) Boston could honestly find a better return elsewhere.
The Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert & Kevin Durant trades have all given us an idea on what type of return package that the Celtics could get if they moved Jaylen but I realy don't think that they will. They had opportunities to trade him for Kawhi and then KD yet the team still didn't do it. They've known all along that there may come a season before this current contract ended where he could possibly make All-NBA which would then make him Supermax eligible.
Reports around the team are saying they're going to give it him,which would be a 5yr deal. Then they wouldn't be able to trade him for one season due to details in the SM contract language. If they then decide to trade him he'd be on a longterm deal where they could get an even better return package.
As you if can't tell, I've spent waaay too much time reading up on this topic lately lol.
@SanctionII said:
How about Boston trading Jalen Brown and Malcolm Brogdan to GS for Draymond Green and Jonathan Kuminga?
🤣😂🤣
Outside of there being a difference of roughly 20+M in making the deal match (Brown 28M/Brogdon 22 vs Green 25/Kuminga 5) Boston could honestly find a better return elsewhere.
The Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert & Kevin Durant trades have all given us an idea on what type of return package that the Celtics could get if they moved Jaylen but I realy don't think that they will. They had opportunities to trade him for Kawhi and then KD yet the team still didn't do it. They've known all along that there may come a season before this current contract ended where he could possibly make All-NBA which would then make him Supermax eligible.
Reports around the team are saying they're going to give it him,which would be a 5yr deal. Then they wouldn't be able to trade him for one season due to details in the SM contract language. If they then decide to trade him he'd be on a longterm deal where they could get an even better return package.
As you if can't tell, I've spent waaay too much time reading up on this topic lately lol.
...
I actually have come to understand this situation only through the help of the big toe, so, I am ok with Brown being here on the bonanza deal. I think there are a few possible outcomes, all of which would be better than dumping him now.
@SanctionII said:
How about Boston trading Jalen Brown and Malcolm Brogdan to GS for Draymond Green and Jonathan Kuminga?
🤣😂🤣
Outside of there being a difference of roughly 20+M in making the deal match (Brown 28M/Brogdon 22 vs Green 25/Kuminga 5) Boston could honestly find a better return elsewhere.
The Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert & Kevin Durant trades have all given us an idea on what type of return package that the Celtics could get if they moved Jaylen but I realy don't think that they will. They had opportunities to trade him for Kawhi and then KD yet the team still didn't do it. They've known all along that there may come a season before this current contract ended where he could possibly make All-NBA which would then make him Supermax eligible.
Reports around the team are saying they're going to give it him,which would be a 5yr deal. Then they wouldn't be able to trade him for one season due to details in the SM contract language. If they then decide to trade him he'd be on a longterm deal where they could get an even better return package.
As you if can't tell, I've spent waaay too much time reading up on this topic lately lol.
...
I actually have come to understand this situation only through the help of the big toe, so, I am ok with Brown being here on the bonanza deal. I think there are a few possible outcomes, all of which would be better than dumping him now.
One thing that could play a huge factor into this team's future is how would Tatum feel about trading Brown? For years all we heard were people asking are they even friends? which also played into the whole can the play together? talk but more recently you started to see that they really are friends and care about each other.
Just look at Tatum's comments about Jaylen after G7 where he straight out said "its extremely important that we keep Jaylen Brown." Trade Jaylen and you might be starting the countdown clock that leads to Tatum asking out.
A commenter over on Celticsblog recently posted a great fanpost breaking down how Brown & Tatum's next contracts will fit under Boston's salary cap in the near future. Other than the initial shock of hearing that Brown then Tatum's next deals will become the highest supermax contracts in history, the two combined shouldn't hurt Boston nearly as much as the NBA media is having us believe.
These NBA Supermax contracts sort of reminds me of NFL QB contracts in recent years where we'll here Player X just signed for the most money ever only to hear soon after that the next QB due for an extension signed for even more money than the previous guy. With the NBA salary cap expected to rise a decent amount every year its going to raise most salaries with it.
Comments
Miami definitely shot it well after halftime. That will win you sone games.
I think our failure to properly call time outs and proactively stop any bleeding is a huge issue.
The players are cognizant the fact that Mazzulla doesn't do it. They say he lets them play through it. it is not good. Everyone understands that letting the team play through some struggles can have benefits, but it can't be your default settings.
And the timeouts thing is in the players, too.
Sometimes thats the price of having a deep team with plenty of players that can score.
Tatum & Brown have been 1A & 1B here for years
Brogdon & White were the guys on their previous teams,
Smart is the longest tenured Celtics playis player
Horford has been the best player on his team for most of his career.
They're all competitors who at times during the game (&4th) see plenty of chances to get by their guy to get a basket.
Tatum should have touched the ball more in that 4th quarter but if you watched the game then you saw that stretch where he gave it away three straight times, so saying that, we've seen it go both ways at times.
This team has plenty of killer instinct,if they didn't they wouldn't have won 65 of their 95 games played in this 2022-23 season and they wouldn't have made it this deep into the playoffs.
I mean,just go back 24hrs and all of Boston was talking about how they putaway Philly late in G6 and all of G7, there was plenty of killer instinct there.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
It gets foggy when you see them lose after having 10 poi.t plus leads in crucial games
1) Assuming they just defend his right is much easier said than done. He's a bigtime player and the defense has to react to him not the other way around.
2) Honestly that is just a horrible take. Boston came into the game averaging 46 points in the paint per game, last night they scored 62. Just posting up was not the problem.
3) Another horrible take, Smart finished with 11 assists to just 2 turnovers and neither of the 2 TOS came in the 4th with the game on the line. Your hate for this guy is hilarious,he's not the reason why Boston lost last night.
4.) Bingo!. This is why they lost last night.
5.) Just playing the bench doesn't guarantee a win. I agree that Hauser,Muscala & Pritchard are all great shooters but do you know who else is? Brogdon,Horford & White who actually played and should be taking more threes. Those three bench guys can shoot but they'll give the points right back on the other end. I love PP but asking him to defend Jimmy Butler is crazy.
6) Again another horrible take. Boston had a layup line going right thru that Maimi defense all night scoring 62 points in the paint. How do you force a defense to play on the block when they're letting you score at will at the rim? Spoelstra obviously gave us the rim if it meant we weren't going to shoot a million threes and it worked out great for them with the win.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
It does but that happens to every team in the NBA. The old cliche is Basketball is a game of runs and with how the 3pt shot plays such a huge part in this era compared to previous ones, no lead is really safe these days.
You can erase a 10pt lead in literally 30-40 seconds with three stops on defense then three made 3's on the other,Its why you're never really out of a game unless your coach decides to throw in the towel at a certain point.
If that lead was in quarters 1-3 then its really not that big of a deal but if it happens midway/late in the 4th then I'd agree that its really a problem. Boston's problem wasn't blowing that lead,it was giving up 46 points in one quarter, can't do that and expect to win.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Fair points
-> @perkdog said:
I tried editing my original comment to you and it went poof lol. They've played a total of 95 games not 90 so far.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Well 95 or 90 games, your point rings true regardless
For the sake of argument, do you agree that Tatum needs to get it together more as far as maturity goes? I really do think his emotions get the best of him more times than not
Erik has some good points, as long as he is talking about the first half. The second half was totally different.
1) With Smart not being a scorer it allows his man to slump off and help with Brown and Tatum and as you saw they got off about 15 - 20 less three pointers because of it. He's not a good passer. Just saying he didn't the turn the ball over x amount times doesn't mean he did anything good. Most of assists were in the first half. he barely showed up in the second half, especially on defense.
2) Just because they did well in the first half scoring in the paint doesn't mean you stop. Starting in the third quarter they stopped.
3) Boston was voted on having the best bench in the NBA. Why run the starters in the ground game after game if they have a surplus of good players. Certainly they aren't as good as the starters, but the starters will play better when they are fresh and putting in 3 sharp shooters will force Miami's hand on defense. they can't just leave those guys open. And defensively they couldn't have done any worse than starters did. Miami broke their all-time quarter scoring record for a playoff game.
Maturing how though? Barking at the refs all game? Yes. Maturing into a player with killer instinct? Again,he has killer instinct already,we just saw him win the previous two games using it. At the age of 25,he's still a work in progress. He just didn't play well late in that game,it happens, even with the greatest of players.
In the LA-Denver game the night before,Lebron had the ball with 20ish seconds left in the game down by 5. He was literally 3ft from the basket with the ball,had he scored it would have been a one possession game. He turned it over and they lose.
You can look like a GOAT one day and the goat the next,it happens.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
@perkdog another comment went poof after an edit. This freakin place lol.
Maturing how though? Barking at the refs all game? Yes. Maturing into a player with killer instinct? Again,he has killer instinct already,we just saw him win the previous two games using it. At the age of 25,he's still a work in progress. He just didn't play well late in that game,it happens, even with the greatest of players.
In the LA-Denver game the night before,Lebron had the ball with 20ish seconds left in the game down by 5. He was literally 3ft from the basket with the ball,had he scored it would have been a one possession game. He turned it over and they lose.
You can look like a GOAT one day and the goat the next,it happens.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
1) that has NOTHING to do with Marcus Smart and the Boston Celtics not shooting more threes last night. Go back and look at that 3rd quarter,he scored 8 of Boston's 25pts, had one asist,one turnover and one block before coming out at the 2:32 mark. Stop trying to justify your hate for this guy with unrelated scenarios.
2) Cmon dude do I really need to spell it out for you? Their made FG/FG attempts in the 2nd half were less because they fell behind in the 3rd quarter. Started it with a 9pt lead then finished it down 12 so they started taking more threes to try getting back in it. Even then, they were still killing it in the paint in that second half making 11/17 FGs. Again, the problem was Miami was willing to give up twos instead of threes and its very hard cutting into leads these days when you're not taking/making threes.
3) its the playoffs where every team shortens their rotation. Boston has great players at 6-8 who are Brogdon,White(or Timelord depending on who starts) and Grant Williams. That is why people think that their bench is one of the best. Its because they have a few players who would start elsewhere.
After that is a bunch of players who can look great at times during the regular season but who all come with flaws that opposing teams can exploit in the playoffs. Being this deep in the playoffs your margin for error is very very thin. Our problem in that 3rd quarter wasn't scoring points it was preventing the other team from scoring.
Th C's could have really used some threes from PP/Hauser/Muscala, but you also need to get stops at the same time to cut into that lead and these guys are just not good defenders at all.
We just watched firsthand what it was like bringing in just one of them in Pritchard,He didn't hit a single three and I know Butler scored on him but not sure who else did. in his 12mins he finished with a -3 meaning Boston got oustscored by 3pts while he was in the game. I'm as big of a Pritchard fan there is but if he's not making threes,he's not really helping the team at all. The same goes for Hauser & Muscala as well.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Maybe I'm being too hard on Tatum idk, I like the guy and I think he is an elite player so don't get me wrong, I guess I kind of expect our best player to act like Jimmy Butler? Butler stays emotionless through the entire game after he drains a 3 or misses a layup, Tatum is 24/5 and Butler is 33 so I guess it's an unfair judgment on Tatum maybe
We can be hard on Tatum at times and where he's the guy on this team making the big bucks that goes with the territory BUT i will say that he's only 25yrs old and we need to remember that. It took me forever to get this point across to theshow but guys his age usually don't lead teams to titles in the NBA. The only ones that do are the elite of the elite all time greats like Bird,Magic,Tim Duncan,Bill Walton,Bill Russell. Kobe won rings when he was young but he was the clear #2 behind Shaq.
I'm sure I'm forgetting a few other great.
Jordan & Lebron had plenty of playoff failures before finally winning rings in their early 30's. Lebron had the same knock as Tatum has now that he didn't have that killer instinct,it finally went away once he won his first ring in Miami.
Tatum isn't in that group obviously and at this point he's not really done enough to make it to the HOF yet but he's certainly on his way.
You've already made my point about Butler,he's much older but even then,Tatum at this age is so far ahead of Butler was when he was 25yrs old and Butler was nowhere close to the late game assassin that he's become.
You probably won't remember this but there was a 2-3 year stretch where Jimmy Butler was the new hot commodity on the trade market during his last two seasons in Chicago before he was due to hit free agency. There were many rumors about Danny Ainge shipping out Smart,Brown,other players plus future picks that would have included the one that turned into Jayson Tatum for Butler but Ainge never pulled the trigger.
Fast forward to the first round of the 2016-17 playoffs where Boston was playing Chicago.The Bulls were led by Jimmy Butler,Dwyane Wade & Rajon Rondo,the C's had IT,Horford and a bunch of role players.
The night before the playoffs started Isaiah Thomas's sister died in a car crash and instead of taking time out to mourn he decided to play (he was also about to be a FA after the playoffs and was expecting his first real big payday.) The C's lost both games 1 & 2 in Boston where IT was visibly crying on the sidelines throughout both games,it was honestly really tough to watch. To add injury to insult IT also got hurt but kept playing, Rondo also got hurt for the Bulls and his playoffs was over so
The Bulls have a 2-0 lead with the series heading to back to Chicago for the next two games. Between everything that IT was going thru and the Bulls having arguably the two best players in the series,it should have been a wrap for Chicago yet they lost the next four games ending their season. Jimmy Butler,this ultimate closer in 2023, and Wade, a former FMVP, couldn't close out that series when they had everything in their favor. Butler was 27 at the time.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Great post, I should let you know that I literally have not followed the Celtics much less the NBA at all pretty much ever until the Draft Kings app came out, now that I bet on the games occasionally I have been more into it overall.
I do have good memories of watching Bird, Jordan back.in the day but I never got into it like the Pats and Sox
I'm glad I hate basketball. I only do baseball and the sox have enough problems for me to handle.
Try doing Sox and Patriots lol
I used to do the Patriots until they let Brady get way , now I just watch whatever football game that is free to watch.
A lot of great comments guys. I just read through today's stuff. I enjoyed myself and I'm excited for this game tonight. Like I said, cone the final game of the Boston Miami series, this thread should be nothing but 🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗
i gave up on boston. poor defense, poor passing, poor shooting, just plain overrated. coach is in over his head. don't see brown returning to this mess.
The worst part is they gave Mazzulla a multi-year deal before seeing him coach in the playoffs. The deep bench has played better than the starers tonight,
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Nothing went right for the Celtics tonight.
This has got to be extremely frustrating for Celtic fans.
At least they can take solace in the fact that the Lakers are also down 0-3 against Denver and will likely not advance to the finals.
Even if Boston had won tonight I really believe that Denver is winning it all anyways. Although it is ensuring knowing that LA probably won't get to 18 before us for at least this season.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Tatum - while making first team all nba two seasons in row, he just doesn't look like one of the top 5 players in the league. Speed, ball handling, Shooting, passing are all kind of average to me. Needs to play more inside and use his size.
R. Williams - hurt a lot. Needs to post people up and use his jumping ability to get 5 foot in shoots
Smart - is a role player, IMO. 15 - 18 minutes per game
PP - Should start and play about 24 minutes per game.
Horford - role player, 15 minutes off the bench
Brown - almost same as Tatum but a little quicker.
Hauser - should play 15 - 18 per game
Griffin - should play about 8 per game
White should start and play 30+ per game.
Brogdon - 25 -30 per game (could start)
Muscala (sp) - 15 -18 off the bench.
Celtics just don't have enough knock down shooter unless they play pp, hauser and Muscala. In my opinion this is what playing time should look like every game.
Grant williams could be used in place of Blake depending on the match up
....
I'm calling myself out for this kind of exaggerated confidence. 👎👎🤣
After watching them all season long, I had a bad feeling about the odds makers putting so much confidence in the celtics. They just don't look like a championship team and are lacking real leaders.
They've never played well as the favorite, i guess its much easier to play the they don't respect us card than it is to carry the weight of wearing that crown except they've never won that crown.
They honestly have enough knock down shooters, they're either just not hitting them right now in Horford & Brogdon or they're not giving any meaningful minutes to PP & Hauser.
Horford was 2nd in the NBA in 3pt% going from 44% to 29% in the playoffs.
Brogdon ranked 4th overall during the year going from 44% to 25% in this series.
When they play PP & Hauser play they need to make an effort to get them some 3pt attempts or what's the point of even putting them out there?Mazzulla isn't playing Hauser & Pritchard because they might get exposed on the defensive end. Maybe its time to stop playing the switch everything defense and let them just cover the opposing team man to man. That way we won't see Pritchard,Brogdon & White getting scored on repeatedly by Butler & Bam after Miami seeks out those types of mismatch.
I really think Grant is about to playout his last game in Boston. He turned down their extension offer in the offseason saying that he thought he was worth more then he hasn't shown that he's worth that 16-20M/yr type of extension. Between his constantly lying on the court faking injuries and pouting to the refs all game,i'm thinking the team has had enough with his antics. Its a shame because he a very versatile defnder,can hit his threes and he seems like the perfect player to have on the bench for times when they face Giannis or Embiid. I could easily see teams like the Bucks,Knicks,Heat,Sixers or Cavs giving him an RFA offer that we won't match just to steal him away and use him in the same role when they face Giannis or Embiid.
I think the FO really screwed the pooch by making Mazzulla the permanent HC without seeing how he performs in the playoffs. After the team wasn't willing to just fire Udoka outright after suspending him because it would meant that they paid him the rest of his contract,they won't do the same with Joe on top of that just a handful of months later. From here its just hoping that he's learned from his mistakes,imo.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
We got this,its only going to take four OT's in game 7 to get it done. 😉
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
can't defend the home court. sad display of professionalism. tatum isn't playing like a 2 time first teamer. more like honorable mention.
sports are about heart. the heat have it. give them lots of credit.
pretty sad display last night. I wonder if they sign the 2 super max contracts or blow the thing up?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Celtics showed alot by winning 3 in a row instead of folding like a cheap tent, tough to win 4 in a row.
Inconsistent play is their Achilles
I would part ways with Smart White Grant. Get a good shooter and a high draft pick. Resign Jaylen.
Jaylen and Jayson are both great players but they need a good point guard to help them. Play Pritchard Muscala and Hauser a lot more. The coach did not use his bench to his advantage.
Jaylen
Jayson
Malcolm
Al
Robert
Peyton
Muscala
Hauser
Alabama rookie (forgot his name)
Dino
Then add a player (point guard) in a trade. Then get a good draft pick.
Not a fan of the 5 out offense unless you have several players who are quick enough to beat their man off the dribble. The Celtics, in this series, did not.
The Celtics and the Lakers can console themselves by the fact that given that they lost their respective conference final, at lease the other team also lost the other conference final.
Neither team has to fret about the other advancing the the NBA Finals and having a chance to win title #18 (thus breaking the 17 to 17 title tie that they currently are in).
It is also interesting to learn that with Miami advancing to the 2023 NBA Finals, Pat Riley has now (as a player, coach and GM) has been to to the NBA Finals 28 or 29 of the Finals played since 1970.
They need to either go after a 3rd star that is capable of hitting big shots/running an offense late in playoff games like a Dame Lillard/Bradley Beal OR they need to move some of their guard depth to balance out the roster. That would mean moving one of:
Smart, the best defender of the 3.
Brogdon, the best scorer.
or White,the best all around player of the 3.
If given the choice I'd move Brogdon. He was great as a scorer off the bench but he never really was able to create better shots for his teammates and our worst fear that we had after trading for him came true,he was hurt yet again when the team needed him most. Unfortunately that has been his MO since coming into the league.
Regardless of who does or doesn't get traded,with the new tax apron in the recently changed CBA its going to be much harder for teams to keep a deep,high paying roster like this Celtics team longterm. Before, you would see a team like GS just pay the insane amounts of tax dollars just to keep their core intact while surrounding them with capable role players but now teams over that apron are going to get penalized where they won't be able to trade future first round picks.
So its either:
1. Trade those picks now to add a 3rd star and basically roll with that team for the foreseeable future and just suffer whatever consequences that come your way from the league. You already gave away the 3-4 future 1sts to get that star and can't trade anymore for roughly 7 years anyways.
OR
2. Trim your salary down then take it year by year. You'd be making tough roster decisions while gutting your depth but so would every other high tax paying contender. Going this route puts a larger emphasis on drafting and free agent signings.
Overall,I think our worst problems are our offensive & defensive schemes that we continue to run even though these last two playoff runs have shown how ineffective they've been,especially late in games.
On offense Mazzulla has been all about spacing which is great when you're hitting your threes. When you're not and don't run any other type of scheme other than give it to your two stars and let them go ISO,we see results like we did throughout this series.
Not being able to beat a zone defense at the NBA level is really just sad,imo. Sure, the players deserve a portion of blame in this instance but as a head coach that is mostly on you for not having any type of plays to use in that situation. Miami has been going zone against us for years yet we haven't learned to just send one of Tatum,Brown or Horford right to the foul line and run the play through them.
Then on the defensive end its great to have all of these long athletic defenders that can switch 1-5 but there are times when the team should literally switch their defense up. The players have it ingrained in their heads to automatically make that switch on picks & rolls and 9 times out of 10 in the playoffs you're doing exactly what your opponent wants you to do. Whether its seeing a 6-4 guard down low trying to stop a guy who has 6-8inches/40-60lbs on him or one of our bigs hanging out at the 3pt line trying to chase around a much quicker guard/wing. ALso this is a huge reason why teams usually kill us on the offensive glass.
I don't know if seeing Tatum roll an ankle literally seconds into the game somewhat took some of the air out of the team but ,while he gutted it out, the effort for the most part just wasn't there.
Ime Udoka was far from being the perfect head coach here but he was able to get them to play all out on the defensive side during that second half of the season right thru the Finals. Mazzulla just doesn't seem like that type of coach.
With more experience he could grow into being that guy but with the salary/tax decisions this team needs to make in the very near future,do they really have time to let him learn on the job? I wouldn't take that chance.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Eric,
No matter what they do they need to play the bench more. I agree with most everything you posted, but the last two years both coaches have asked the starters to play entirely too many minutes.
Absolutely. Ime deserves a little less blame on that because his bench was nowhere near as deep as Mazzulla's was and Joe shouldn't have waited until the Philly & Miami series were in jeopardy to finally call on his 8-10 guys. Ultimately I see them running it back with the addition of Gallo finally getting out there. The only real changes that we might see are Grant and/or Pritchard leaving which would be a bummer because they contribute when given the chance.
If there aren't any major changes then I'd like to see them add a 3rd rotational big that can rim run,defend & rebound and a long,defensive minded wing to come off the bench. Ideally that big could replicate some of what Timelord does if/when Rob's hurt while Hordford & Gallinari can still give you 3pt shooting from the 4.
They won't have the cap to get a good 3&D wing but just someone in the 6-6 to 6-8 range,who is quicker on D than Grant,that could come in defend someone like a Jimmy Butler,Caleb Martin or Duncan Robinson while our starting wings are either on the bench or covering someone else.
FInding a traditional point guard would also be great but, unless he's a star like Lillard or Beal,he'd never crack their top 8. Even then it wouldn't really matter anyways if the team doesn't change their offensive philosophy.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Not to takeaway from their lack of effort throughout most of this game,which wasn't there, they ended up dealing with:
Tatum rolling his ankle on the first play of the game.
Brogdon returning after missing G6 and was only able to play 7mins, missing the three shots that he took.
Rob Williams dealing with a stomach bug that had him puking throughout the entire game and was only able to play 14mins.
And Derrick White having a knee/leg injury that forced him out with just under 8mins left in the game.
Any team trying to comeback from a 0-3 deficit in a series is going to need some type of luck at some point and for a team that was fairly healthy throughout these entire playoffs, it looked like their luck finally ran out after that Derrick White game winner in G6.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Well,Boston didn't fire Mazzulla and after looking at the big picture I can see why they didn't. I would have been ok had they fired him and one of top two choices to replace Joe is still heading to Boston anyways to be his #2, Sam Cassell.
I just hope that they still add a few more assistants,preferably more former players but this is a great start,imo.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/6/4/23748948/report-sam-cassell-to-join-joe-mazzullas-coaching-staff-boston-celtics-doc-rivers
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Joe has no idea what he is doing (as a head coach). He needs more seasoning. He didn't take over the last place team, he took over the favorites. Way too much pressure for a first time head coach.
But I agree with you, that they need some pretty darn seasoned assistant coaches.
I hope they a make a deal or two to get a high draft choice. Lightened the salary cap load add a really good 19 or 20 year old. If they can't pay Brown, How about Brown to Charlotte for Terry and the 2nd pick? Celts can throw in there pick number 25 or so. Then trade Grant and Peyton to Utah for Kelly.
I've been very critical of Joe over the past week but I'm also capable of looking at the overall big picture in regards to his rookie season as HC. He was put into a no-win situation unless he won the Finals. He wasn't able to bring in one single assistant that he could say was his guy. He was likely working with some of Ime's guys who possibly resented him for getting the interim job over them. Yet overall,he did a decent job in his first season at the front of the line even though it ended like it did.
I agree that there was way to much pressure for a first time head coach let alone any head coach, It is Boston,not everyone in the sports world can get the job done here and when they don't,we let them know it lol.
Once we heard that Brad was bringing Joe back, I've just decided to accept it and hope the guy shows improvement.
I'm not sure that a high draft choice is the right way to go when we're pretty much in Championship or bust mode. Any player at the Wing would rarely see playing time with Tatum & Brown out there and any guard drafted would be behind Smart,Brogdon,White,Pritchard and JD Davison,who showed decent playmaking skills in Maine.
They're going to pay Brown,I have no doubt it. The only way I see them not doing it is if he asks out and with that much money one the line he's not turning it down when he can't sign the supermax elsewhere. Once he signs it he can't be traded for one year.
But if for some reason they did end up trading him they could do much better than Rozier & #2. Terry is too much like the three guards we already platoon in MS/DW/MB, defensive minded who are very streaky on offense.
I like Olynyk but we're going to have Gallinari & Muscala who are both similar players who are slightly less versatile. Grant is a restricted free agent and would have to be part of a sign & trade for us to trade him. He's likely going to get offers that put his salary in Kelly's range if not over it and with a S&T we might be able to do better than Kelly.
I wouldn't move Pritchard until we know if they're definitely keeping all three guards ahead of him on the depth chart or not.
He really just wants playing time and he's too good of a shooter to just trade because he asked for it.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
nice thoughts erik. I was thinking they would need to trade someone because of the cap. The top rookie draft pick, while maybe not 100% ready, would be making a sixth of what Brown may make. I think Brown is top notch player, but he's not really exceptional at anything. Shooting is good, dribbling is average, passing is average, rebounding is below average (he's a guard), above average on defense, but turns the ball over a little too much.
I used Rozier's name mainly because I don't know who all they have, but they do have the second pick. If they could get Ball, that would be perfect, he is an excellent point guard. Ball and #2?
Where Charlotte isn't contending anytime soon tading Ball for Brown really wouldn't make much sense for them, for basically the same reasons you just mentioned. Ball makes the players around him better and he's still signed for two more seasons at 1/3rd of Jaylens's salary. That being said Michael Jordan has been horrible running that franchise so who knows what he would do.
If Joe expands our offense and Tatum keeps growing as a facilitator we won't need to see Brown in that role he tried playing in G7 that often. That really was a case of everything that could go wrong did. Tatum & Brogdon hurt,the offense couldn't hit a three and the defense knew Brown would try taking over so they made him dribble through traffic whenever they could.
There is definitely some sticker shock in regards to the pricetag on his next contract but I wouldn't give up on him just yet. Once the next NBA TV deal kicks in raising the salary cap considerably,those Tatum & Brown contracts will go from 70% of their cap back to around what it is now,in the 50-60% range. The front office will just need to adjust to the new tax apron between now & then.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
How about Boston trading Jalen Brown and Malcolm Brogdan to GS for Draymond Green and Jonathan Kuminga?
🤣😂🤣
Outside of there being a difference of roughly 20+M in making the deal match (Brown 28M/Brogdon 22 vs Green 25/Kuminga 5) Boston could honestly find a better return elsewhere.
The Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert & Kevin Durant trades have all given us an idea on what type of return package that the Celtics could get if they moved Jaylen but I realy don't think that they will. They had opportunities to trade him for Kawhi and then KD yet the team still didn't do it. They've known all along that there may come a season before this current contract ended where he could possibly make All-NBA which would then make him Supermax eligible.
Reports around the team are saying they're going to give it him,which would be a 5yr deal. Then they wouldn't be able to trade him for one season due to details in the SM contract language. If they then decide to trade him he'd be on a longterm deal where they could get an even better return package.
As you if can't tell, I've spent waaay too much time reading up on this topic lately lol.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
...
I actually have come to understand this situation only through the help of the big toe, so, I am ok with Brown being here on the bonanza deal. I think there are a few possible outcomes, all of which would be better than dumping him now.
One thing that could play a huge factor into this team's future is how would Tatum feel about trading Brown? For years all we heard were people asking are they even friends? which also played into the whole can the play together? talk but more recently you started to see that they really are friends and care about each other.
Just look at Tatum's comments about Jaylen after G7 where he straight out said "its extremely important that we keep Jaylen Brown." Trade Jaylen and you might be starting the countdown clock that leads to Tatum asking out.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
A commenter over on Celticsblog recently posted a great fanpost breaking down how Brown & Tatum's next contracts will fit under Boston's salary cap in the near future. Other than the initial shock of hearing that Brown then Tatum's next deals will become the highest supermax contracts in history, the two combined shouldn't hurt Boston nearly as much as the NBA media is having us believe.
These NBA Supermax contracts sort of reminds me of NFL QB contracts in recent years where we'll here Player X just signed for the most money ever only to hear soon after that the next QB due for an extension signed for even more money than the previous guy. With the NBA salary cap expected to rise a decent amount every year its going to raise most salaries with it.
I highly recommend our C's fans here checking it out,its definitely worth the read.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/6/1/23745550/supermax-contracts-and-the-salary-cap-some-numbers
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486