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CELTICS choke it up again..

olb31olb31 Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭✭✭

13 point favorites and straight up lose. this is probably one of the biggest upsets based on the spread in the history of the nba.

dodgers in baseball and celtics in basketball. i route for the chokers. throw in the chokie hokies and its a trifecta,

Work hard and you will succeed!!
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Comments

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I said in the playoffs thread that it is hard to root for our superstar, Tatum. However, I love my team, and I still believe we got this.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,456 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2023 5:20AM

    I actually watched the game with a buddy who had a $600 parlay on the Celts, Nuggets and Sun's.

    The Celts are a soft team, they don't have that killer instinct to kick teams when they are down, they took their foot off the gas pedal the entire 4th and managed to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

    Huge respect for Trea Youngs game btw

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2023 8:36AM

    @perkdog said:

    The Celts are a soft team, they don't have that killer instinct to kick teams when they are down, they took their foot off the gas pedal the entire 4th and managed to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

    100%

    i haven't watched a ton of NBA games this season (i'm watching more now since it's the playoffs), but i still have personally seen Boston completely throw away upward of a handful of games this season just like they did last night. earlier this season they were playing a Durant-less and Irving-less Nets team and had about a 30-point lead in the second quarter at home. the game was so brutally lopsided that i stopped watching. the next day i was checking out scores from the night before and Boston somehow managed to allow a completely depleted Brooklyn team to come back and win that game.

    you drilled it -- a lackadaisical team with zero killer instinct

    there's something to be said for having a guy on the roster who has a "i'm not gonna let my f*****g team lose" mentality. a la Trae Young last night. a la Jimmy Buckets two nights ago. who is that guy for Boston? Tatum should be him, but to this point he doesn't look the part. a superstar? yep. a guy who steps on the other team's neck in the 4th and digs his spikes in? not to my pair of eyes.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2023 9:31AM

    @galaxy27 said:

    @perkdog said:

    there's something to be said for having a guy on the roster who has a "i'm not gonna let my f*****g team lose" mentality. a la Trae Young last night. a la Jimmy Buckets two nights ago. who is that guy for Boston? Tatum should be him, but to this point he doesn't look the part. a superstar? yep. a guy who steps on the other team's neck in the 4th and digs his spikes in? not to my pair of eyes.

    Listening to other Celtics fans they'll tell you that its Jaylen Brown and not Jayson Tatum, yet Brown went scoreless in that last 5mins,just like Tatum, and missed three 4th quarter FTs in a 2pt loss. He also let Trae Young get to his spot and drain the game winning three.

    I expected the Hawks to go down fighting but I didn't expect the C's to lay down for them with 5mins left in the game. Boston scored just two baskets in the last 5mins by Rob Williams to go along with Derrick White's two clutch FTs in the closing seconds and that was with Atlanta not having their best defender last night with DeJounte Murray suspended.

    Its sucks as a C's fan but we'll see if it ultimately hurts them overall over the next few days. They're still up a game.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,127 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd

    i'm not going to pretend to know what type of coach Mazzulla is, but ultimately it's his job to do something about that type of complacency. if i was him i would have berated every single one of those guys until my voice gave out. for crying out loud, they just witnessed what not to do the night before (Milwaukee), then they turned right around and did it themselves. they should have blown the doors off of Atlanta last night (without Murray, at home), for no other reason than to get to Philly as quickly as possible before Embiid had a chance to get healthy again.

    it's almost as if they expected the Hawks to lay down and die with 5 mins left, down 12 and down 1-3 in the series. but to Atlanta's credit, they chose to keep competing and earned the victory. i don't care how good a team is, if you half-ass it on the court you can easily get your ass handed to you.

    they'll get by Atlanta (eventually), but the next series against the Sixers is going to be must-see..........for more than one reason

  • charliej2356charliej2356 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    i blame the Celtics head coach for Boston's loss last night. My "general theory" for the vast majority of teams in the vast majority of sports is as follows:
    A team will win 25% of its games regardless of the coach. A team will also lose 25% of its games regardless of the coach. Coaching can play a major role in a team's success in the other 50% of the games -- and last night's Boston loss falls squarely on the coach. Everyone in the arena knew who was likely to attempt that final game-winning shot for Atlanta -- and you can't let "that man" attempt a wide-open 30-foot shot in that situation. When you're hot you're hot.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The worst part about that loss is they did everything that they wanted for the most part. They had a huge 60-38 margin in points in the paint as well as in fastbreak points 24-8. They owned the boards,off & def, had more assists,equal # of turnovers but they had more points off TOs. Atlanta did hit more threes but not so many that it would be a huge difference in the final score.
    Boston,just did what it usually has done in recent seasons is take their foot off of the gas once they go up by a certain amount. This was the case when Brad Stevens was HC,last year with Ime Udoka and still is with Joe Mazulla which means its fully on the players,meaning Tatum,Brown & Smart.

    Marcus Smart is my favorite Celtics player,he gives 100% on every play and he's always been about the team first but in these situations like last night, he should either be on the bench or playing the 2 guard and having Derrick White or Malcom Brogdon running the playes. White has lowkey been our 3rd best player all season and Mazzulla tends to sit him late in games for some reason when he either has Smart running the offense or we're going with the double bigs in Horford & Timelord.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you, @charliej2356 , for showing up in time to see the Celtics win the championship.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2023 10:32AM

    @galaxy27 said:
    @erikthredd

    i'm not going to pretend to know what type of coach Mazzulla is, but ultimately it's his job to do something about that type of complacency. if i was him i would have berated every single one of those guys until my voice gave out. for crying out loud, they just witnessed what not to do the night before (Milwaukee), then they turned right around and did it themselves. they should have blown the doors off of Atlanta last night (without Murray, at home), for no other reason than to get to Philly as quickly as possible before Embiid had a chance to get healthy again.

    it's almost as if they expected the Hawks to lay down and die with 5 mins left, down 12 and down 1-3 in the series. but to Atlanta's credit, they chose to keep competing and earned the victory. i don't care how good a team is, if you half-ass it on the court you can easily get your ass handed to you.

    they'll get by Atlanta (eventually), but the next series against the Sixers is going to be must-see..........for more than one reason

    Mazzulla took last season's great defensive team and made them much more efficient on offense,they finished 2nd in offense on the season IIRC. I totally agree that he should lay into to them and he probably did. My complaint with him is he needs get to get Derrick White into these late game situations much sooner than he did last night. Our offense runs more efficiently when White's the playmaker and not Smart. They also wanted to go double bigs for most of that 4th because Atlanta's best attribute is attacking the offensive boards,which gets mitigated by our double big lineup.

    What we watched last night is what we saw numerous times during last season's playoff run, they put themselves in position to win then ultimately let it slip through their fingers and it it was part of the reason they lost the Finals.

    Even with everything going on in the Boston/Atlanta series,if I were a Sixers fan I wouldn't be overly confident right now with that Embiid injury. Its his knee,not something minor, and he has a long injury history. All of these days off may help or may not matter at all. Although if Boston wants to finish games out like they did last night it may not even matter how long Embiid will be out.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,127 ✭✭✭✭✭

    if i was a C's fan the thing that would have driven me to drink is allowing Young to go off. double up on his ass and leave any other Hawk with an open look if need be. i still say outside of him going bonkers there was simply no way Atlanta was going to come back down 12 in the final 5 of that game.

    even on that last play i'm telling Brown to glue himself to Young the moment he crosses half court. if you get beat off the dribble, so be it. help comes and you force another Hawk not named Trae Young to make an open shot. get the effing ball out of the hands of the dude who has shown over the past 3 minutes that he's bound and determined to force a G6 by himself

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:
    if i was a C's fan the thing that would have driven me to drink is allowing Young to go off. double up on his ass and leave any other Hawk with an open look if need be. i still say outside of him going bonkers there was simply no way Atlanta was going to come back down 12 in the final 5 of that game.

    even on that last play i'm telling Brown to glue himself to Young the moment he crosses half court. if you get beat off the dribble, so be it. help comes and you force another Hawk not named Trae Young to make an open shot. get the effing ball out of the hands of the dude who has shown over the past 3 minutes that he's bound and determined to force a G6 by himself

    The thing with the Hawks is they're a great all around offensive team so even had it been one of the other scorers, they all were having good shooting nights. Collins had 22 w/4-9 from three, Hunter 13 w/3-5 from three, Bogdan had 18 w/3-3, Bey had 12 w/2-3.
    The Hawks shot 35% from three on the season avergaing 10 made threes a game. Last night they went 19-41 for 46%. Boston came into the series as the 3pt shooting team and Atlanta beat us last night at our own game.

    I think with Murray being suspended it kind of gave Trae more freedom on offense where he had the ball all night compared to having to split time running things when Murray was playing. He had a phenomenal game with 38 & 13 including the game winning three.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,127 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:

    Even with everything going on in the Boston/Atlanta series,if I were a Sixers fan I wouldn't be overly confident right now with that Embiid injury. Its his knee,not something minor, and he has a long injury history. All of these days off may help or may not matter at all.

    you're probably right. might not make much of a difference. but then again, it might. plus the entire team is getting an extra couple of days off after sweeping. they'll either be rusty coming out of the gate or as fresh as a daisy

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,127 ✭✭✭✭✭

    and @thisistheshow , let's just have a surprise av bet. the loser receives a "surprise" after the series ends...........and it stays up until the end of the playoffs

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Smart is not a smart player. Doesn't value the ball, flops around too much, takes to many bad shots and is not a very good point guard. He should be 7th or 8th man, not a starter. White is much better. Brogdon is much better, Heck as a scorer Peyton might be better.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:
    and @thisistheshow , let's just have a surprise av bet. the loser receives a "surprise" after the series ends...........and it stays up until the end of the playoffs

    ...
    I don't like surprises, but...ok.🙃

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:
    Smart is not a smart player. Doesn't value the ball, flops around too much, takes to many bad shots and is not a very good point guard. He should be 7th or 8th man, not a starter. White is much better. Brogdon is much better, Heck as a scorer Peyton might be better.

    He's annually one of the best assist to turnover ratio players so I wouldn't agree with that part or not a very good point guard either. I do agree that he flops way to much and throws up too many bad shots though.
    Brogdon looks for his own shot way to much to run an offense and after years of IT,Kyrie & Kemba they don't need that type of PG. Pritchard,while a great shooter,isn't someone that could run a first team offense.
    White is the only guard you mentioned that is better running their offense.

  • charliej2356charliej2356 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    Congrats to Disease. I didn't think they'd win game 6 in Atlanta, much less cover the spread.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭✭✭

    smart 6 more turnovers. celtics defense is weak, offense doesn't value the ball. they have the best bench but have decided not to play the bench in the playoffs.

    pritchard should take some of smart's minutes. grant needs to play more and so does griffen and hauser. use the darn bench.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,456 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2023 4:16AM

    Celts are a soft team, kind of like the Bruins

    Built for the regular season only

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,456 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They will have their hands full when Embiid plays

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:
    They will have their hands full when Embiid plays

    ....
    With Embiid on the floor, it won't just be "that same team plus Embiid". Different style. That being said, in theory we should have had a significant advantage with him out. Either way, very tough loss.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    inexcusable to lose when Embiid is not playing. Such a soft performance.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    inexcusable to lose when Embiid is not playing. Such a soft performance.

    It really wasn't. Boston attacked the paint with Embiid out and they practically had a layup line to the basket all night with 64 points in the paint,Philly had just 40pip. The problem was by going to the basket so much the Celtics got away from how they've played all season with living and dying by the three. (which is normally a great thing but last night didn't work in their favor)
    The 76ers hit 17 threes to Boston's 10. That huge 24 point advantage we had in the paint got negated by Philly's 7 more threes (21pts.)

    They lost last night because on one end,they couldn't get a stop on Harden down the stretch and on the other,they made too many late TOs including Brogdon's pass directly to Maxey that led to the go-ahead score.

    James Harden had an incredible game and if you go read comments from 76ers fans since that game ended,you'll see that they were just as surprised he went off like that as everyone else was. Think of all of the huge stat years he had down in Houston which even led to an MVP season and last night was his career high for playoff points in a game at the age of 33.

    When Embiid is playing,that offense looks entirely different. Much less shots for everyone once you start feeding Joel then he & Harden spend all game trying to get to the FT line usually with very good success. They built that team with very good 3pt shooters surrounding those two and with no Embiid everyone got the chance to step up which they did.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:
    smart 6 more turnovers. celtics defense is weak, offense doesn't value the ball. they have the best bench but have decided not to play the bench in the playoffs.

    pritchard should take some of smart's minutes. grant needs to play more and so does griffen and hauser. use the darn bench.

    This is such a horrible take. Smart is the one person on offense that kept them in the game during that 4th,scoring 10 of the Celtics 28 4th quarter points. Smart was our best option in that game,period.

    Use the darn bench? Who really made sense for this game?
    Grant got in for four minutes and was ineffective as would have Griffin been too when Philly literally had just ONE big man playing in that game,Paul Reed, who Horford & Timelord took turns going up against. Grant couldn't stay in front of Tobias Harris on defense and Blake certainly wouldn't have so any other bigs aside from RWilliams or Horford made no sense.

    Hauser played 5mins,was 0-1 and doesn't have the quickness on defense to hang with Harden,Harris,Maxey or Melton.

    I'm a huge Pritchard fan but the kid is just 6-1,can't run an offense and isn't quick/tall enough on defense to cover cover any of those 4 names above. He'll hustle his ass off and hit threes at a very good clip but he's only good against certain teams, and Philly isn't one of them.

    White started,scored just 4pts and was a -15 for the game in 27mins.

    That leaves Brogdon who for the most part was having a good night and was out there with the game on the line. We were up 1 with the ball and 45ish seconds left and it was his turnover that cost us the game and put Philly ahead.

    I get it that Celtics fans have to always find someone to blame after a loss but to just say,use the darn bench, without actually thinking about it makes no sense at all.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,127 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i've said this numerous times before and i'll say it again -- you can't trust Boston. i've watched them vomit up games at home that they had absolutely no business losing, and it happened again last night. collectively, they just don't possess a killer instinct. they literally learned nothing from their last home game when they regurgitated a big lead, had no one who could slow down Trae Young, and ultimately lost to a Hawks team down one of their stars.

    carbon copy last night.

    a 12-point lead in the 2nd vanished into thin air, James Harden lost his mind the entire game, and Philly stole one on the road without Joel Embiid on the floor. if the Celtics were a true championship team, they would have blown the doors off of both of those short-handed teams at home. instead, they keep playing with fire by giving playoff games away. except in this series they are playing a team that can end their season.

    where's the sense of urgency? WHO is the defensive stopper? did the head coach challenge these guys from the end of the Atlanta series until G1 against Philly? from my vantage point, NOTHING changed since the previous home game against Atlanta. same song, different verse: build a lead, get complacent, allow an undermanned road team to steal a game they had no business winning.

    if i was a Celtics fan i'd be so, so pissed.

    i personally think that G2 will reveal everything. if Boston comes out enraged and flogs Philly by 20, perhaps the switch will have finally flipped. but if for some reason they mess around again and lose -- especially with Embiid out -- my good friend showstopper will be changing his avatar soon.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:
    i've said this numerous times before and i'll say it again -- you can't trust Boston. i've watched them vomit up games at home that they had absolutely no business losing, and it happened again last night. collectively, they just don't possess a killer instinct. they literally learned nothing from their last home game when they regurgitated a big lead, had no one who could slow down Trae Young, and ultimately lost to a Hawks team down one of their stars.

    carbon copy last night.

    a 12-point lead in the 2nd vanished into thin air, James Harden lost his mind the entire game, and Philly stole one on the road without Joel Embiid on the floor. if the Celtics were a true championship team, they would have blown the doors off of both of those short-handed teams at home. instead, they keep playing with fire by giving playoff games away. except in this series they are playing a team that can end their season.

    where's the sense of urgency? WHO is the defensive stopper? did the head coach challenge these guys from the end of the Atlanta series until G1 against Philly? from my vantage point, NOTHING changed since the previous home game against Atlanta. same song, different verse: build a lead, get complacent, allow an undermanned road team to steal a game they had no business winning.

    if i was a Celtics fan i'd be so, so pissed.

    i personally think that G2 will reveal everything. if Boston comes out enraged and flogs Philly by 20, perhaps the switch will have finally flipped. but if for some reason they mess around again and lose -- especially with Embiid out -- my good friend showstopper will be changing his avatar soon.

    Its tough because they saw a weakness in the paint with Embiid out and consistently attacked the rim all night. The only problem is you're giving up threes for twos and with Philly being the best 3pt percentage team during the season they hit almost twice as many threes as you.

    Take Embiid off the 76ers team and that leaves a team full of athletic wings that can shoot the three & play defense just as good as Boston can. They also had a future HOF player that knows how to close out a game in Harden and he did.

    This team definitely has some kind of mental block when it comes down to crunchtime and that will always point to Tatum,Brown,Smart & Horford who are always on the floor in these moments. For each player you could pick out a bad play here or there late in that game but you'll also find a great play too that kept them in it or put them up.
    I know plenty of fans will say trade one of them but you'll never get a return package that would be worth it. Not to mention those four are the main reason why they go as far as they do most seasons so unfortuantely its waiting around hoping that someday it all clicks for them.

    Boston lost both game 1's vs Milwaukee & Miami in last season's playoff run and still moved on after each round so this series is far from over yet.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:

    @galaxy27 said:
    i've said this numerous times before and i'll say it again -- you can't trust Boston. i've watched them vomit up games at home that they had absolutely no business losing, and it happened again last night. collectively, they just don't possess a killer instinct. they literally learned nothing from their last home game when they regurgitated a big lead, had no one who could slow down Trae Young, and ultimately lost to a Hawks team down one of their stars.

    carbon copy last night.

    a 12-point lead in the 2nd vanished into thin air, James Harden lost his mind the entire game, and Philly stole one on the road without Joel Embiid on the floor. if the Celtics were a true championship team, they would have blown the doors off of both of those short-handed teams at home. instead, they keep playing with fire by giving playoff games away. except in this series they are playing a team that can end their season.

    where's the sense of urgency? WHO is the defensive stopper? did the head coach challenge these guys from the end of the Atlanta series until G1 against Philly? from my vantage point, NOTHING changed since the previous home game against Atlanta. same song, different verse: build a lead, get complacent, allow an undermanned road team to steal a game they had no business winning.

    if i was a Celtics fan i'd be so, so pissed.

    i personally think that G2 will reveal everything. if Boston comes out enraged and flogs Philly by 20, perhaps the switch will have finally flipped. but if for some reason they mess around again and lose -- especially with Embiid out -- my good friend showstopper will be changing his avatar soon.

    Its tough because they saw a weakness in the paint with Embiid out and consistently attacked the rim all night. The only problem is you're giving up threes for twos and with Philly being the best 3pt percentage team during the season they hit almost twice as many threes as you.

    Take Embiid off the 76ers team and that leaves a team full of athletic wings that can shoot the three & play defense just as good as Boston can. They also had a future HOF player that knows how to close out a game in Harden and he did.

    This team definitely has some kind of mental block when it comes down to crunchtime and that will always point to Tatum,Brown,Smart & Horford who are always on the floor in these moments. For each player you could pick out a bad play here or there late in that game but you'll also find a great play too that kept them in it or put them up.
    I know plenty of fans will say trade one of them but you'll never get a return package that would be worth it. Not to mention those four are the main reason why they go as far as they do most seasons so unfortuantely its waiting around hoping that someday it all clicks for them.

    Boston lost both game 1's vs Milwaukee & Miami in last season's playoff run and still moved on after each round so this series is far from over yet.

    ...
    In my opinion, the team is so talented and deep that they might/hopefully/will win this year's championship despite their flaws.

    I think that the last coach held these guys more account's than this one.

    That said, in today's NBA, it really is the superstar/s of the team setting the tone.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @galaxy27 said:
    i've said this numerous times before and i'll say it again -- you can't trust Boston. i've watched them vomit up games at home that they had absolutely no business losing, and it happened again last night. collectively, they just don't possess a killer instinct. they literally learned nothing from their last home game when they regurgitated a big lead, had no one who could slow down Trae Young, and ultimately lost to a Hawks team down one of their stars.

    carbon copy last night.

    a 12-point lead in the 2nd vanished into thin air, James Harden lost his mind the entire game, and Philly stole one on the road without Joel Embiid on the floor. if the Celtics were a true championship team, they would have blown the doors off of both of those short-handed teams at home. instead, they keep playing with fire by giving playoff games away. except in this series they are playing a team that can end their season.

    where's the sense of urgency? WHO is the defensive stopper? did the head coach challenge these guys from the end of the Atlanta series until G1 against Philly? from my vantage point, NOTHING changed since the previous home game against Atlanta. same song, different verse: build a lead, get complacent, allow an undermanned road team to steal a game they had no business winning.

    if i was a Celtics fan i'd be so, so pissed.

    i personally think that G2 will reveal everything. if Boston comes out enraged and flogs Philly by 20, perhaps the switch will have finally flipped. but if for some reason they mess around again and lose -- especially with Embiid out -- my good friend showstopper will be changing his avatar soon.

    Its tough because they saw a weakness in the paint with Embiid out and consistently attacked the rim all night. The only problem is you're giving up threes for twos and with Philly being the best 3pt percentage team during the season they hit almost twice as many threes as you.

    Take Embiid off the 76ers team and that leaves a team full of athletic wings that can shoot the three & play defense just as good as Boston can. They also had a future HOF player that knows how to close out a game in Harden and he did.

    This team definitely has some kind of mental block when it comes down to crunchtime and that will always point to Tatum,Brown,Smart & Horford who are always on the floor in these moments. For each player you could pick out a bad play here or there late in that game but you'll also find a great play too that kept them in it or put them up.
    I know plenty of fans will say trade one of them but you'll never get a return package that would be worth it. Not to mention those four are the main reason why they go as far as they do most seasons so unfortuantely its waiting around hoping that someday it all clicks for them.

    Boston lost both game 1's vs Milwaukee & Miami in last season's playoff run and still moved on after each round so this series is far from over yet.

    ...
    In my opinion, the team is so talented and deep that they might/hopefully/will win this year's championship despite their flaws.

    I think that the last coach held these guys more account's than this one.

    That said, in today's NBA, it really is the superstar/s of the team setting the tone.

    He really didn't,they have the same flaws now that they had then. That playoff run had plenty of games like last night where we all thought they would win and didn't due to late TOs while clamming up on offense in crunchtime.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:

    @thisistheshow said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @galaxy27 said:
    i've said this numerous times before and i'll say it again -- you can't trust Boston. i've watched them vomit up games at home that they had absolutely no business losing, and it happened again last night. collectively, they just don't possess a killer instinct. they literally learned nothing from their last home game when they regurgitated a big lead, had no one who could slow down Trae Young, and ultimately lost to a Hawks team down one of their stars.

    carbon copy last night.

    a 12-point lead in the 2nd vanished into thin air, James Harden lost his mind the entire game, and Philly stole one on the road without Joel Embiid on the floor. if the Celtics were a true championship team, they would have blown the doors off of both of those short-handed teams at home. instead, they keep playing with fire by giving playoff games away. except in this series they are playing a team that can end their season.

    where's the sense of urgency? WHO is the defensive stopper? did the head coach challenge these guys from the end of the Atlanta series until G1 against Philly? from my vantage point, NOTHING changed since the previous home game against Atlanta. same song, different verse: build a lead, get complacent, allow an undermanned road team to steal a game they had no business winning.

    if i was a Celtics fan i'd be so, so pissed.

    i personally think that G2 will reveal everything. if Boston comes out enraged and flogs Philly by 20, perhaps the switch will have finally flipped. but if for some reason they mess around again and lose -- especially with Embiid out -- my good friend showstopper will be changing his avatar soon.

    Its tough because they saw a weakness in the paint with Embiid out and consistently attacked the rim all night. The only problem is you're giving up threes for twos and with Philly being the best 3pt percentage team during the season they hit almost twice as many threes as you.

    Take Embiid off the 76ers team and that leaves a team full of athletic wings that can shoot the three & play defense just as good as Boston can. They also had a future HOF player that knows how to close out a game in Harden and he did.

    This team definitely has some kind of mental block when it comes down to crunchtime and that will always point to Tatum,Brown,Smart & Horford who are always on the floor in these moments. For each player you could pick out a bad play here or there late in that game but you'll also find a great play too that kept them in it or put them up.
    I know plenty of fans will say trade one of them but you'll never get a return package that would be worth it. Not to mention those four are the main reason why they go as far as they do most seasons so unfortuantely its waiting around hoping that someday it all clicks for them.

    Boston lost both game 1's vs Milwaukee & Miami in last season's playoff run and still moved on after each round so this series is far from over yet.

    ...
    In my opinion, the team is so talented and deep that they might/hopefully/will win this year's championship despite their flaws.

    I think that the last coach held these guys more account's than this one.

    That said, in today's NBA, it really is the superstar/s of the team setting the tone.

    He really didn't,they have the same flaws now that they had then. That playoff run had plenty of games like last night where we all thought they would win and didn't due to late TOs while clamming up on offense in crunchtime.

    ....
    I'm curious. You will know a lot better than me, as this is a narrative I've followed in stories, anecdotally but not seen for sure.

    When I said he held them more accountable, I'm going by what I've heard media and fans say. They have pointed out that he picked his spots and would hold them accountable in the media, calling them out more. Ive read that there was more of a respect thing going on, and he could give them more tough love. Have you heard that or seen it? I ask because maybe they do need it. And if they weren't getting it last year, still, I think possibly it is part of the mental block you referred to.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @thisistheshow said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @galaxy27 said:
    i've said this numerous times before and i'll say it again -- you can't trust Boston. i've watched them vomit up games at home that they had absolutely no business losing, and it happened again last night. collectively, they just don't possess a killer instinct. they literally learned nothing from their last home game when they regurgitated a big lead, had no one who could slow down Trae Young, and ultimately lost to a Hawks team down one of their stars.

    carbon copy last night.

    a 12-point lead in the 2nd vanished into thin air, James Harden lost his mind the entire game, and Philly stole one on the road without Joel Embiid on the floor. if the Celtics were a true championship team, they would have blown the doors off of both of those short-handed teams at home. instead, they keep playing with fire by giving playoff games away. except in this series they are playing a team that can end their season.

    where's the sense of urgency? WHO is the defensive stopper? did the head coach challenge these guys from the end of the Atlanta series until G1 against Philly? from my vantage point, NOTHING changed since the previous home game against Atlanta. same song, different verse: build a lead, get complacent, allow an undermanned road team to steal a game they had no business winning.

    if i was a Celtics fan i'd be so, so pissed.

    i personally think that G2 will reveal everything. if Boston comes out enraged and flogs Philly by 20, perhaps the switch will have finally flipped. but if for some reason they mess around again and lose -- especially with Embiid out -- my good friend showstopper will be changing his avatar soon.

    Its tough because they saw a weakness in the paint with Embiid out and consistently attacked the rim all night. The only problem is you're giving up threes for twos and with Philly being the best 3pt percentage team during the season they hit almost twice as many threes as you.

    Take Embiid off the 76ers team and that leaves a team full of athletic wings that can shoot the three & play defense just as good as Boston can. They also had a future HOF player that knows how to close out a game in Harden and he did.

    This team definitely has some kind of mental block when it comes down to crunchtime and that will always point to Tatum,Brown,Smart & Horford who are always on the floor in these moments. For each player you could pick out a bad play here or there late in that game but you'll also find a great play too that kept them in it or put them up.
    I know plenty of fans will say trade one of them but you'll never get a return package that would be worth it. Not to mention those four are the main reason why they go as far as they do most seasons so unfortuantely its waiting around hoping that someday it all clicks for them.

    Boston lost both game 1's vs Milwaukee & Miami in last season's playoff run and still moved on after each round so this series is far from over yet.

    ...
    In my opinion, the team is so talented and deep that they might/hopefully/will win this year's championship despite their flaws.

    I think that the last coach held these guys more account's than this one.

    That said, in today's NBA, it really is the superstar/s of the team setting the tone.

    He really didn't,they have the same flaws now that they had then. That playoff run had plenty of games like last night where we all thought they would win and didn't due to late TOs while clamming up on offense in crunchtime.

    ....
    I'm curious. You will know a lot better than me, as this is a narrative I've followed in stories, anecdotally but not seen for sure.

    When I said he held them more accountable, I'm going by what I've heard media and fans say. They have pointed out that he picked his spots and would hold them accountable in the media, calling them out more. Ive read that there was more of a respect thing going on, and he could give them more tough love. Have you heard that or seen it? I ask because maybe they do need it. And if they weren't getting it last year, still, I think possibly it is part of the mental block you referred to.

    Telling them to get their heads out of their butts isn't really some great trait he had lol. If you've watched games this season where they've shown Joe in the huddle he's done the same numerous times.

    Honestly,Udoka wasn't this great HC compared to Mazzulla,our fans complained about Ime throughout the entire season and even moreso as they got deeper into the playoffs just like they do with Joe now. He got them to play hard on defense but they still had the late game offensive issues then that they do now.
    Joe has come in and made them a much more efficient offense but he can't control whether one of our stars dribbles into tight coverage or takes a bad shot,

    We talked about this last night,we both agreed offensively this was a great overall game for them but in crunchtime the Philly defense started doubling Tatum & Brown when they got the ball and made the others beat them, Smart & Horford kept us in the game and we still had a chance to win until that Brgodon brainfart.
    just give Philly credit and make the right adjustments regardless of whether Joel plays game 2 or not.

    We lost game 1 at home in round 2 a year ago and came back from that so this isn't the end of the world here lol.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:

    @thisistheshow said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @thisistheshow said:

    @erikthredd said:

    @galaxy27 said:
    i've said this numerous times before and i'll say it again -- you can't trust Boston. i've watched them vomit up games at home that they had absolutely no business losing, and it happened again last night. collectively, they just don't possess a killer instinct. they literally learned nothing from their last home game when they regurgitated a big lead, had no one who could slow down Trae Young, and ultimately lost to a Hawks team down one of their stars.

    carbon copy last night.

    a 12-point lead in the 2nd vanished into thin air, James Harden lost his mind the entire game, and Philly stole one on the road without Joel Embiid on the floor. if the Celtics were a true championship team, they would have blown the doors off of both of those short-handed teams at home. instead, they keep playing with fire by giving playoff games away. except in this series they are playing a team that can end their season.

    where's the sense of urgency? WHO is the defensive stopper? did the head coach challenge these guys from the end of the Atlanta series until G1 against Philly? from my vantage point, NOTHING changed since the previous home game against Atlanta. same song, different verse: build a lead, get complacent, allow an undermanned road team to steal a game they had no business winning.

    if i was a Celtics fan i'd be so, so pissed.

    i personally think that G2 will reveal everything. if Boston comes out enraged and flogs Philly by 20, perhaps the switch will have finally flipped. but if for some reason they mess around again and lose -- especially with Embiid out -- my good friend showstopper will be changing his avatar soon.

    Its tough because they saw a weakness in the paint with Embiid out and consistently attacked the rim all night. The only problem is you're giving up threes for twos and with Philly being the best 3pt percentage team during the season they hit almost twice as many threes as you.

    Take Embiid off the 76ers team and that leaves a team full of athletic wings that can shoot the three & play defense just as good as Boston can. They also had a future HOF player that knows how to close out a game in Harden and he did.

    This team definitely has some kind of mental block when it comes down to crunchtime and that will always point to Tatum,Brown,Smart & Horford who are always on the floor in these moments. For each player you could pick out a bad play here or there late in that game but you'll also find a great play too that kept them in it or put them up.
    I know plenty of fans will say trade one of them but you'll never get a return package that would be worth it. Not to mention those four are the main reason why they go as far as they do most seasons so unfortuantely its waiting around hoping that someday it all clicks for them.

    Boston lost both game 1's vs Milwaukee & Miami in last season's playoff run and still moved on after each round so this series is far from over yet.

    ...
    In my opinion, the team is so talented and deep that they might/hopefully/will win this year's championship despite their flaws.

    I think that the last coach held these guys more account's than this one.

    That said, in today's NBA, it really is the superstar/s of the team setting the tone.

    He really didn't,they have the same flaws now that they had then. That playoff run had plenty of games like last night where we all thought they would win and didn't due to late TOs while clamming up on offense in crunchtime.

    ....
    I'm curious. You will know a lot better than me, as this is a narrative I've followed in stories, anecdotally but not seen for sure.

    When I said he held them more accountable, I'm going by what I've heard media and fans say. They have pointed out that he picked his spots and would hold them accountable in the media, calling them out more. Ive read that there was more of a respect thing going on, and he could give them more tough love. Have you heard that or seen it? I ask because maybe they do need it. And if they weren't getting it last year, still, I think possibly it is part of the mental block you referred to.

    Telling them to get their heads out of their butts isn't really some great trait he had lol. If you've watched games this season where they've shown Joe in the huddle he's done the same numerous times.

    Honestly,Udoka wasn't this great HC compared to Mazzulla,our fans complained about Ime throughout the entire season and even moreso as they got deeper into the playoffs just like they do with Joe now. He got them to play hard on defense but they still had the late game offensive issues then that they do now.
    Joe has come in and made them a much more efficient offense but he can't control whether one of our stars dribbles into tight coverage or takes a bad shot,

    We talked about this last night,we both agreed offensively this was a great overall game for them but in crunchtime the Philly defense started doubling Tatum & Brown when they got the ball and made the others beat them, Smart & Horford kept us in the game and we still had a chance to win until that Brgodon brainfart.
    just give Philly credit and make the right adjustments regardless of whether Joel plays game 2 or not.

    We lost game 1 at home in round 2 a year ago and came back from that so this isn't the end of the world here lol.

    ...
    I'm just sort of playing devil's advocate, and following up on the comments made by @galaxy27. I wasn't hearing the in game huddles regular season, etc .

    They played amazing offensive basketball last night. It was a thing of beauty.

    I didn't dive in to the Boston media reaction. It was obviously going to be highly negative.

    I saw the post game talk on TNT. Barkley said the same things after the game that he said at halftime.
    The criticism was a lack of defensive intensity, supposedly reflected in the free throw numbers.

    For every negative comment I hear now about Mazzulla, I heard either an offsetting positive comment about him earlier in the year or a negative Ime comment last year.

    The main thing I heard when Mazzulla took over was that he was much more of an offensive Xs and Is guy than Udoka. This team is an offensive juggernaut, so I can't argue there.

    We are a complete team, deep, and more talented than other squads, imo. I still see us as favorites.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I still feel very good about my avatar bet. Very good

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:
    This team is an offensive juggernaut, so I can't argue there.

    We're still an elite defensive team too,its just Philly is too and without Embiid they can play just as fast as us on both ends.
    By playing smaller they were able to keep one of our best defensive lineups off the court when we go two bigs in Horford/RobWilliams and it hurt us.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:

    @thisistheshow said:
    This team is an offensive juggernaut, so I can't argue there.

    We're still an elite defensive team too,its just Philly is too and without Embiid they can play just as fast as us on both ends.
    By playing smaller they were able to keep one of our best defensive lineups off the court when we go two bigs in Horford/RobWilliams and it hurt us.

    Also, Horford has been so, so good. Last night was not his best. I anticipate him playing better. Brogdon has been amazing, and he was, but then...he wasn't, lol.

  • BrickBrick Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It seemed to me that with a few minutes to go and a few point lead Boston stopped attacking but was more concerned with using all of the 24 second shot clock. That usually ended with a lower percentage shot or no shot at all. Basketball teams that work on the clock remind me of football teams going to the "prevent defense."

    Collecting 1960 Topps Baseball in PSA 8
    http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/

    Ralph

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Brick said:
    It seemed to me that with a few minutes to go and a few point lead Boston stopped attacking but was more concerned with using all of the 24 second shot clock. That usually ended with a lower percentage shot or no shot at all. Basketball teams that work on the clock remind me of football teams going to the "prevent defense."

    .....
    I loved our ball movement all game, but I remember thinking right before that steal towards the end that we needed to get a shot off and were taking things a bit too far, lol.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Brick said:
    It seemed to me that with a few minutes to go and a few point lead Boston stopped attacking but was more concerned with using all of the 24 second shot clock. That usually ended with a lower percentage shot or no shot at all. Basketball teams that work on the clock remind me of football teams going to the "prevent defense."

    That might be their worst habit. Instead of staying aggressive,they clear out one side then let Tatum or Brown either take their guy off the dribble or force a switch into a lesser defender. Sometimes it works,sometimes it doesn't, Usually it means they get doubled then have to find the open shooter and the team went 1-7 outside of the paint in that 4th quarter.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would like to have seen Brown get the ball/have the ball more second half, specifically last quarter.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That being said, I believe we adjust and win game 2 and the series.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Celtics Finally put together. The Coach figured out they need more defense. He almost blew it. Williams should have been in the lineup the whole playoffs. He is a difference maker.

    They still need a point guard. Would like to see more of Peyton and White and less of Smart. Brogdon is awesome. The Celts had a chance to draft him and passed in the second round, i knew that was a big mistake.

    Smart needs to come off the bench with brogdon.

    Heat series will be tough, those dudes just know how to win.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:
    Celtics Finally put together. The Coach figured out they need more defense. He almost blew it. Williams should have been in the lineup the whole playoffs. He is a difference maker.

    They still need a point guard. Would like to see more of Peyton and White and less of Smart. Brogdon is awesome. The Celts had a chance to draft him and passed in the second round, i knew that was a big mistake.

    Smart needs to come off the bench with brogdon.

    Heat series will be tough, those dudes just know how to win.

    After they drafted Jaylen Brown with the 6th pick in that draft they had Isaiah Thomas,Macus Smart,Jaylen Brown,Avery Bradley & Terry Rozier that would all be ahead of him on the depth chart and that doesn't even factor in Gerald Green & Jae Crowder who would have saw time ahead of him as well. Instead he went to a lottery team in Milwaukee who could give him playing time.

    Its real easy looking back at past drafts to second guess picks but most 2nd rounders never amount to much in the NBA. Years later and the only 2nds from that draft that are still actual NBA players are Brogdon,Ivan Zubic & Georges Niang.

    If teams thought that Brogdon was some can't miss player he wouldn't have dropped all the way to 36th pick. He also missed 159 games over his first 6 seasons before coming to Boston, at 164 games it would have equaled missing 2 out of those 6 seasons due to injury. Had that happened in Boston our fanbase would have turned on him by now and he probably

    If we're second guessing picks, forget Brogdon and give me Pascal Siakham & Dejounte Murray over Yabusele & Zizic.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the reason i said it was i was actually anticipating them going after him with the 35th pick. but they traded the pick. living in VA and having watched him play i figured he was a steal at 35. i thought he should have been a first round pick.

    not trying to second guess picks.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:
    the reason i said it was i was actually anticipating them going after him with the 35th pick. but they traded the pick. living in VA and having watched him play i figured he was a steal at 35. i thought he should have been a first round pick.

    not trying to second guess picks.

    Its ok to second guess them sometimes, we just had a glut of players at the PG/SG/SF positions and then we wasted two picks in the teens on Yabu & Zizic(who was part of the Kyrie trade.)

    I checked out a couple of Brogdon's draft profiles from back then and one said he was arguably the most NBA ready player in the draft. Its crazy how so many teams are willing to take chances on so many young players that spend one year in college who many don't make it to a 2nd contract yet a guy like Malcolm drops that far.

    We should see alot more of our bench in this series compared to last. Grant,Peyton & Hauser couldn't keep up with guys like Maxey,Harden,Melton & Harris but against Miami with Strus,Robinson,Vincent,Lowry & Martin they should be able to get some run.
    I can't wait for tomorrow nights game.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,456 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They really let Tatum be that guy and take charge in the 4th lol

    How many shots did Tatum even have in the entire second half?

    The refs gave the Celts some calls and they had a decent lead but again they don't have that killer instinct and stomp teams when they got them on the ropes.

    But it's only game 1, I figured Miami would steal a game in Boston

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is frustrating to watch their execution take a 180 degree turn mid game.

    Eventually , their refusal to win the winnable games will come back to bite them.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1) Butler can only score when he goes right or shoots from the right.
    2) The celtics are taller at every position. anyone ever heard of posting up? Tatum is 4 inches taller than the guy that guards him. Horford same thing.
    3) Smart just is not very smart. Very loose with the ball, average ball handler below average shooter. Puts no pressure on the defense.
    4) Defensive scheme didn't work. way out of position practically the whole second half.
    5) got to play the bench more. Hauser, Marcala (or whatever his name his) and Pritchard are all great shooters. Puts pressure on the defense.
    6) force miami to play defense on the block. They are smaller and quicker.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:
    1) Butler can only score when he goes right or shoots from the right.
    2) The celtics are taller at every position. anyone ever heard of posting up? Tatum is 4 inches taller than the guy that guards him. Horford same thing.
    3) Smart just is not very smart. Very loose with the ball, average ball handler below average shooter. Puts no pressure on the defense.
    4) Defensive scheme didn't work. way out of position practically the whole second half.
    5) got to play the bench more. Hauser, Marcala (or whatever his name his) and Pritchard are all great shooters. Puts pressure on the defense.
    6) force miami to play defense on the block. They are smaller and quicker.

    .....
    You make some good points.

    Tatum is frustrating. He is so freaking good. He seems like he can score ar=t will, but sometimes he doesn't. The point you make about his size advantage is a great one. It's like he doesn't know or understand how big he is. I don't know for sure if this applies to him but a lot of pro players didn't grow up taking advantage of their size advantages as a means to always score. No matter how big they were, they all played like guards. It is frustrating to see him being guarded, and I am thinking that he can just shot over the guy. Also, it is frustrating to see him not get the ball closer to the basket sometimes.

    Smart, like a lot of Celtics, can go from hero to zero and back and forth constantly.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can say this with confidence. Come the last game of this series, no one will have anything to post in this thread.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,456 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Part of the reason the Celts were up so much in the first half is because they rebounded with authority, Miami missed far less shots in the 3rd

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